Quote: I am going to do a dark sky trip in the next month. Can't wait. I have yet to use them under really dark skies
"I have been paddling in the shallows of a great ocean of knowledge." - Sir Isaac Newton * * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob & a Denk II binoviewer * * http://peaceofsky.wordpress.com/ Pacheco State Park Fremont Peak
Quote:Spring is not my best season. I live under marginal sky conditions, being near the geographic center of a metropolitan area of 2 million.That doesn't stop me from doing a lot of observing, but it does tend to restrict me to only the brighter galaxies, and even then, they are not usually compelling.Last night, I did do some observing and as expected, I find the binoviewers to not be maybe neutral in terms of viewing Galaxies. I viewed several bright galaxies, and found that while they generally only a tiny bit dimmer than when using Monovision, and I was able to locate all of them that I have seen in the past with Monovision with no difficulty.Planetary Nebula are great in the Binoviewers, and here I perceive a positive difference. Many Planetary Nebula are quite small, and often do contain some detail or structure that can be perceived, and I think these objects do look better in binoviewers. They often seem to show more graduation where as in Monovision, they appear more as being more evenly illuminated. Globulars... Ahhhhhhh. This is a class of object that simply looks so much better in binovision that it makes it difficult to go back to viewing them mono.Last night, I was out for a while under so-so seeing, so Saturn was not really putting on much of a show (sure, I could see a lot, but I wanted to try to resolve the Hex polar feature and last night was not the night, because I think this is a feature that is going to require some serious magnification).Anyway, I did a bunch of doubles, and finally worked my way to M3 and M5.Both were easy and bright in the C14 with the 40mm Plossls (about 100x). But the more power I put in, the better they each looked.At 308x (13mm Hyperions) these clusters were simply fantastic. M3 is much tighter than M5. The brighter "Ball" easily took up about the central 25% of the field, but the outlying stars easily stretched out to maybe 60% of the field diameter, but there were other stars in the field all the way to the field stop.I have to assume that these are also member stars.The catalogs list the size as 18 arc minutes, and the 13mm Hyperions should only be showing about .23 degrees (about 15 arc minutes?) so from an angular diameter, it would appear that most of the stars in the field were cluster members. But the concentration towards the center was easily imagined as the cluster itself.It was beautiful, but there are not a lot of bright stars, and while the core was not fully resolved, there were stars visible across the entire ball, so partially resolved for sure.Because of the lack of brighter stars, I did not get as an immersive effect as with some of the brighter Globulars, but it was still a mildly 3D view.M5 though was simply spectacular.The linear size is listed at 23 arc minutes, so it should have overrun the field, and once again, the field was full of stars, but the concentration was mostly in the center 305% of the field.Here though, there are many bright stars that extend far away from the center. I would guess they extended over about 60% of the field in the eyepiece and because of these bright stars, the cluster had that strong 3D illusion.The core was much better resolved (not as well as for M13 of course) but the broader distribution of brighter stars really makes this a standout Globular. Seeing it in the Binoviewers this year (this was the first time I have seen it in Binoviewers) was a real treat.I think this for Deep Sky, small bright clusters and Planetary Nebula are by far and away the most fun to observe because of the impressiveness you get from the binoviewers. I am trying to like them for galaxies though, and while they work well enough, I don't find them as compelling to use for this application.Anyway, M3 and M5 at high powers in the binoviewers looked better than I have ever seen them.I am going to do a dark sky trip in the next month. Can't wait. I have yet to use them under really dark skies, and will make sure I do a report.
Meade LS8 ACF Meade 2" Diagonal Apetura 10" Tweakers Package Meade ETX-125, ETX-90 for Solar Celestron 80mm APO PST Meade SWA - 34mm,28mm,24mm,20mm Brandon 32mm, 16mm Vernonscope 40mm Erfle 2" ES 14mm,11mm,6.7mm 8.8 Nagler 13mm T6, Pan 19mm Meade 12.4 Pl,9.7mm, 15mm SP Meade 2x Shorty Barlow Powermate 2.5x WO Bino Viewer, 20mm 66* pair Denkmier 2 Super System Meade Nebula Filters Meade 9x60 Bino Vivitar S1 8x42 Bino Canon T2i, 18-55mm, 50mm 1.8, 55-250mm
Quote:Fun report to read, Ed. Thanks. I am a somewhat inexperienced observer but your impressions were exactly mine just last week. My old scope is a Meade 8" F6.3 with a huge CO so I had seen globular clusters before but they were really just smudges of light. With my relatively new Tec 160FL the globulars were easy to resolve with many stars seen at moderate powers. I have tried mono and I haven't done a lot of comparisons yet but for me, too, I enjoy the binos so much more even if it may be dimmer. I still want to do more testing on my own to see what I am missing and gaining with mono/bino. But I enjoy the view so much more with the binos. With the galaxies, I wasn't so sure. I was only doing some casual observing in my backyard and my eyes were not always very dark adapted but it seemed to really appreciate these in the bino I thought to myself I need to better dark adapt my eyes next time so that I can see more. I have dark skies living in a "dark sky" city but there were a few lights on in the neighboring homes. I use a hooded vest that helps.Another thing I wanted to test and compare was the difference in sharpness with binos over mono. I had trouble getting really sharp stars the other night with my Mark V. I think it could have been the seeing but to be sure next time I will compare to mono. Have you noticed any differences in sharpness of stars with the binos? I wonder if double star viewing would be better with mono. Lots of fun. I always wish I had more time!
Quote:I thought about a straw....but thats gonna be ridiculous!
"Considered as a collector of rare and precious things, the amateur astronomer has a great advantage over amateurs in other fields ... the amateur astronomer has access at all times to the original objects of his study; the masterworks of the heavens belong to him as much as to the great observatories of the world. And there is no privilege like that of being allowed to stand in the presence of the original." --Robert Burnham Jr, Burnham's Celestial Handbook
Quote: ...when some low surface brightness object or the dim mag 13+ stuff will have me go back to mono-viewing, but not yet.
Quote:Binoviewing deep sky, eh?As I've posted before, I have done the entire Herschel 400 with an EarthWin Binoviewer on a C11 with Pan24s or XW20s in the good skies here in Arizona. Piece of cake.Oh, there probably will a point in time during the Herschel II list when some low surface brightness object or the dim mag 13+ stuff will have me go back to mono-viewing, but not yet.Just sayin' ........Arizona Ken
Quote:I too use a hooded vest but i find that my breath gets trapped and inside 20 secs the ep's get fogged up....
How do u cope with this?
Quote:Thanks Ed. I am going to keep testing and I'll figure it out eventually.
Howard: Yes I have had the fogging up happen too. I haven't found a way to cope with it yet. I just take a break and then hold my breath more I suppose I am in the desert and it is dry here so maybe it clears quickly. I have read of some using a straw to breathe through but if the fogging is a result of your warm eyes then that may be a problem too. I have been using eyepieces with longer ER and that should help so the eye doesn't get too close. Maybe others have other ideas...
-DannyMy warehouseMy Channel
Quote: Quote: ...when some low surface brightness object or the dim mag 13+ stuff will have me go back to mono-viewing, but not yet. I'm thinkin' this varies by the observer, by the eye-brain combo of each individual.There's no argument about the physics- the light pokin' thru each half of a BVer will be less-bright than before it was "split". But the summation-effect... THIS is what varies person to person!For me & my eyes+brain, i'm convinced that brain-summation nets me essentially all what was "lost" in the optical splitting. I've gone back & forth b/t bino & mono, same or close magnifications, and it's a rare event to see mono what i can't see bino... it's down to percentages of time a faint star is seen- 50% in/out averted versus 75%. That close!Yet for others i'm sure they've found differently. And some of that might be aperture-dependent?... a small scope showing the difference more profoundly? I dunno... haven't tried BVing anything less than 10-inches. 'Tis been 15-inches the past five years...
George N Obsession 20 Optical Guidance Systems 10" F/9 R-C Cass 6" F/5 & 8" F/8 home-made Newts Explore Scientific 127mm ED MI-250 mount Denk II bino-viewer, with PowerX and Newt reducer, Member, International Dark-Sky Association
Quote: My experience is that bino reduction in deep sky brightness is more apparent with smaller scopes.
"You're not afraid of the dark, are you?" - Riddick "The best scientists are humble. They seek to understand, not to ensure their legacy, but merely to understand." - Mori
Quote: I would respectfully disagree that a good binoviewer cripples a 10" scope with only the brightness of a 7" scope
CPC1100 w/ Denk S2 power switch (IVB).
Denk Binotron-27, 2x D21 eyepieces
TV 55mm Plossl AT 38mm Titan 8, 13, 17, 22mm AT AF70 eyepieces
iPad w/Skywire/Skysafari+ StarSense
NexStar 5SE w/associated goodies
80mm refractor & manual GEM
Quote: Quote: I would respectfully disagree that a good binoviewer cripples a 10" scope with only the brightness of a 7" scope But that's what it does. Period.
Quote: Yep. If you completely ignore summation and only view through one side that is indeed what it does.
Quote: binoviewers work better than what math and dry theory suggest they should, IMO.
Quote:If you don't mind asking a side question, I see you have the WO's BV as well. I just bought the Denk S2 and I have not been able to use them yet going on two weeks of bad skies.Do you see much difference in them over the WO BV?Hopefully I will have a chance to compare them next week if it ever clears up here? I will be using it my 8" SCT.Thanks,Bob