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kraterkid
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: kraterkid]
      #605116 - 09/18/05 01:14 PM

Tim,

Yes, I did run across the Nasmyth and Carpenter plaster models some time back, they are incredibly beautiful! I'd love to see the originals. Do you know if any of them survived and where they are now housed?

Here's a link for those who may not have seen any of their fine work:
http://www.lhl.lib.mo.us/events_exhib/exhibit/exhibits/moon/p20.htm

Rich

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Edited by kraterkid (09/18/05 01:28 PM)


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Jeremy Perez
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: kraterkid]
      #605163 - 09/18/05 02:02 PM

Rich, that is VERY cool. Thank you for sharing.

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kraterkid
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: Jeremy Perez]
      #605207 - 09/18/05 02:44 PM

Thanks Jeremy!

Rich

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oldsalt
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: kraterkid]
      #606006 - 09/19/05 06:42 AM

Great idea Rich. It will give us all something to do on those rainy, and cloudy nights when we a project to work on. Always enjoy seeing another way to hone ones skills. This could also make a great learning tool for school kids.

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There are no winners in war, only bigger losers.

"Duty is the most sublime word in our language. Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more. You should never wish to do less. Rober E Lee

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kraterkid
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: oldsalt]
      #606251 - 09/19/05 11:12 AM

Thanks Jim,

You're right on both points, both school kids and adults can get in on the fun!

Rich

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cildarithModerator
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: kraterkid]
      #606927 - 09/19/05 07:15 PM

Only a krater 'kid' at heart would post something like this, Rich! Thanks for sharing the fun!

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kraterkid
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: cildarith]
      #607013 - 09/19/05 08:23 PM

Hi Eric,

It was my pleasure!

Rich

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CarlosEH
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: kraterkid]
      #609121 - 09/21/05 05:31 AM

Rich,

Thank you for providing us all with an excelent lesson in rendering lunar features as well as how to improve your drawing (and observational) skills. The use of clay to "create" lunar craters (and environs) is very novel. James Nasmyth and James Carpenter in their classic book "The Moon" (1874) used clay models to represent lunar features visible through the telescope ( http://www.bibliomania.com/2/9/70/117/24608/1/frameset.html ). I look forward to your future observations.

Carlos

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kraterkid
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: CarlosEH]
      #609250 - 09/21/05 09:20 AM

Thank you very much Carlos!

It really is amazing how accurate those Nasmyth and Carpenter plasters were. The feature sizes and positions and their resultant photographs show a level of observational skill that is still unequaled in many ways.
While some of their photos display lunar promontories and crater rims as being a little more jagged in appearance, this was probably the combination of the tendency to perceive most craters as volcanic (a commonly held belief of that era) as well as the perception that emerges when one views the long jutting shadows cast by these features when observing them near the terminator. There may be another aspect to this as well, perhaps an over exaggeration in altitude was made to provide a stronger sense of relief in the final photograghs.

One of the cool things about using modelling clay is that when you are done sketching your crater you can mash it flat again and create a new feature to draw. I'm so interested in domes now that lately I've taken to making little mounds with classical craters adjacent to them and studying the way they appear at various angles of light. It's remarkable to see how quickly these faux domes disappear when the angle of the incident light is greater than 5 degrees!

Thanks again for your kind words,

Rich

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CarlosEH
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: kraterkid]
      #610669 - 09/22/05 06:47 AM

Rich,

The lunar scenarios produced by the famous English selenographers James Nasmyth and James Carpenter were truly impressive even by todays standards. They included their work in their famous book The Moon:Considred as a Planet, A World, and a Satellite (1874) which is now very rare and valuable. Their results were probably influenced by the belief at the time (even up to the Apollo lunar landings) that the majority of lunar features were products of volcanism (now we know that they are due impacts billions of years ago). Their efforts are still to be envied by all.

Lunar dome are very interesting as you point out. They are difficult to observe with an incident light of greater than 5 degrees as these features are usually less than this angle in obliquity. I have found some interesting links to domes;
http://www.lpod.org/archive/2004/03/LPOD-2004-03-26.htm
http://www.uai.it/sez_lun/domes.htm
http://www.mikeoates.org/mas/members/domes/

Carlos

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kraterkid
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: CarlosEH]
      #611334 - 09/22/05 03:41 PM

Carlos, thanks for the great links on domes, I'll be spending some foggy evenings in San Diego poring over them.
If you, or anyone else for that matter, ever find out whether any of Nasmyth and Carpenters' releifs are housed, presuming they survived the ravages of war, let me know, this kind of stuff really intrigues me!

Thanks so much,
Rich

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Edited by kraterkid (09/22/05 03:43 PM)


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revans
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: kraterkid]
      #624902 - 10/02/05 02:24 PM

This is one of the most imaginative and creative posts I've ever seen. Very well done...

Rick Evans

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kraterkid
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: revans]
      #625002 - 10/02/05 03:19 PM

Thanks Rick!

It'll keep you sketching on cloudy or New Moon nights and its a great way to hone your skills under lighting conditions that don't change while sketching, while also providing the opportunity to experiment with different mediums in a more leisurely way. Add to that the fun you have creating these lunar scenes and you have everything rolled up in one ball o' clay!

Thanks again,
Rich

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JayKSC
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: kraterkid]
      #625572 - 10/02/05 10:52 PM

This is a neat idea, and one that I'll need to try. Lunar sketching has always seemed daunting to me. Thanks much for the demonstration.

- Jay
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Erix
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: JayKSC]
      #625585 - 10/02/05 11:07 PM

So that's what sparked the post in the lunie bin! How did I miss this post? Rich, that was so fun and looks so easy to do that I can hardly wait to get to the craft shop to buy some clay. I've been trying to get my niece and nephew insterested in astronomy too and what better way than this for hands on when the weather is too bad for the scopes and binos.

I really enjoyed that, thank you!

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kraterkid
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: JayKSC]
      #625673 - 10/03/05 12:34 AM

Thanks so much Jay!

I know you'll have as much fun as I'm having creating your own lunar terrains for sketching.

Rich

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kraterkid
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: Erix]
      #625705 - 10/03/05 01:08 AM

Erika, I can see the three of you creating those clay models on one of those cloudy nights, because you'll all find this so much fun and a real educational opportunity for sparking thoughts about the Moon and its many exciting features. I love the way this kind of project can give kids a real "hands on" experience of astronomy as well as providing experienced observers with a neat technique for learning to sketch 3D lunar forms.

It gives me great pleasure to know you enjoyed this little exercise. Keep us posted on what you and the kids come up with!

Thanks again,
Rich

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Erix
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: kraterkid]
      #627289 - 10/03/05 11:27 PM

Rich, I could barely wait to tell you that I popped to the craft shop tonight on my way home and picked up some clay. So when I have some spare time this week, I'll make a few craters to share using your faux clay tutorial! What fun!

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Erika
Automatic doors make me feel like a Jedi.

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kraterkid
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: Erix]
      #627392 - 10/04/05 01:32 AM

Wonderful Erika!

I'm really looking forward to seeing your model(s) and/or sketches from them, and if your niece and nephew make some, send us some pics of those as well. I'll be stopping by the art supply store myself this week to see if I can get some gray colored modeling clay for my "at the eyepiece lunar sculptural relief" that I mentioned doing in my post on the whereabouts of the Nasmyth and Carpenter plasters ( actually it was you who made me think about doing a direct representation in clay at the scope). This is such a blast to do, I can hardly wait to try it!

Thanks,
Rich

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nitrohepcat
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Re: Making faux clay craters for sketching new [Re: kraterkid]
      #2117433 - 01/13/08 01:00 PM

Wow. This is a really great idea. I can't wait to try it out!

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