KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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I spent a good hour out there tonight with my tripod mounted 15 x 70 "double vision specials"
A rare old CLEAR night here in Lancashire !
I could see almost all of the Little Dipper naked eye in spite of the piercing crescent moon (which was in the same 3.5 degree field of view as the Pleiades -- moonshine infiltrating the cluster even when out of view in BOTH barrels !
I've never noticed such severe chromatic aberration with these binos on the moon's rim as I did tonight.
Try as I did I just couldn't get the yellow / green banding to disappear without a purple version kicking in to take it's place.
The fact that I could get the very edge of the moon in the bottom left corner of the RIGHT eyepiece whilst totally out of range in the LEFT an indication of what I'm up against with these binoculars.
Four of Jupiter's moons were almost in a straight line leading from the 7 o'clock angle of the main sphere, which showed lots of colourful flare.
Ditto Venus.
Orion is getting a little too low now by dark to make the fanous nebula an optimum target , but in spite of this , and the presence of the moonshine , and the imperfections of the binos , I came as close as I've ever done with these binos to positively separating 3 of the 4 trapezium stars.
I also almost fooled myself into thinking I could separate the rings from Saturn during fleeting moments of apparantly "better seeing", but this was probably more a case of wishful thinking than positive glimpsing.
Sound familiar ?
M31 -- what I always call the "great smudge" in these ,was a "not so great smudge" in the NNW , but so low in that most polluted direction ( Preston City lights only 5 miles away ) that I was quite surprised I could see it at all.
On a clear Autumn night when it is easterly and higher I can often make this out much better naked eye from my backyard than I could tonight in 15 x 70s.
It was far too early in the night to be considering the topical M57, but I caught a couple of "faint fuzzies" in the more favourable Big Dipper region.
It's a real shame about the problems I have with these binoculars.
But hey -- when all is said and done -- they are a damn sight better than nothing !
I hope it's as clear for you guys tonight !
Regards -- Kenny.
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I am glad that you had a chance to get out Kenny. Over here in Boston...not so lucky....quite cloudy in fact, but two nights ago I had the 5 planet "evening special". I saw Mercury for the first time!
Who made your 15x70 binos? Too bad they don't perform better, but you're right.....darn better than nothing!
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 42898
Loc: Frederick, MD
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Kenny,
Nice little report Sir. I am hoping to use my binos tonight, but it was cloudy earlier. I need to check outside to see how the sky looks. Glad you got to play.
Scott
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   SLAP Observer --- TMB130SS, SV102V(LOMO Lens), SV80ED Deluxe
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Nighwatch,
My 15 x 70s are HELIOS 15 x 70 , alias Orion Little Giant 2
I don't know who made them personally , but I suspect he or she was probably Japanese.
The box they came in states "High Quality Japanese Observation Binoculars"
They are fully multi-coated and have Bak 4 prisms.
I have refrained from writing a review of them for two reasons.
1. I don't think my "sarcastic side" is appreciated on this forum .
2. I would not wish to make derogatory comments about a product which I think is a defective example of what MIGHT represent VERY GOOD value for money if perfectly collimated ,which mine clearly is not.
I can only blame myself for buying a binocular with such ridiculously short eye -relief of 8mm ( at best ).
Regards , Kenny.
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 42898
Loc: Frederick, MD
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Kenny,
I for one really like the humor of your sarcasm. Pure dry Brit Humor... 
Makes for good reading.
I agree that if we have a poorly performing set of optics, we should get another set for a test to be fair to the manufacturer. Sky and Telescope slaughtered the Celestron CR150 a few years back in a review. It helped me because I bought a great one - cheap....
Scott
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SLAP Observer --- TMB130SS, SV102V(LOMO Lens), SV80ED Deluxe
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Ah, Orion little giant 2. Thanks. I am always interested in knowing the origination of the binos. Just for curiosity's sake. 8mm eye relief? Ouch. I won't wear glasses (yet), but I know that's really short!
I like your humor and wit. Although discretion is sometimes warranted, so is cutting loose if you think it is honestly appropriate...and there in lies the need for wisdom to those times....
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Kenny,
I'll be looking forward to getting out from under these clouds!
Did we discuss this before - are you sure there are no screws under the edges of the rubber on that binoc?
Look here
back prism screw
and here
front prism screw
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 19246
Loc: Brooker, FL
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Kenny,
1. Sarcasm is enjoyed, especially when it's been stimulated by an experience such as yours, and,
2. As a binoc owner, I'm somewhat jealous, as I'm only able to observe one object at a time through mine, whereas you can see more than one through yours. 
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N11GPS Fastar//TOA-130S//MK66 Std//AT6RC//Vintage C5//Megrez II 80mm APO//SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II//Sirius EQ-G
Too Many Astro-Cameras//Mallincam Color Hyper Plus
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Casey and Nelson
Lot 19 Deerlick Astronomy Village (Canis Major)
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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StarWars
Mr. Postmaster Man
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 22112
Loc: Frost Byte Falls <>
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Kenny
Do you find the tripod more difficult to use compared to a mono pod...??
http://www.bigbinoculars.com/monopod.htm
Looks like the mono pod might be unstable... 
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Thanks all ( or very FEW to be more accurate) for the mini -vote of confidence.
Ed ,no we have not discussed the possibility of collimation of this model before.
I have asked for help and advice in the form of an open question about two weeks ago , but not a single person offered an ounce of either.
Such is the nature of folk on THIS forum :-)
I'm pretty sure there ARE adjusters under these plates, but any advice must be given in mind of the fact that I do not like tampering with things mechanical unless I am EXACTLY sure what I am doing.
This might sound like a strange phobia coming from a technical engineer ( in my own field ) but it is BECAUSE of rather than IN SPITE of this that I am reluctant.
I work in an industry where sometimes one wrong sixth of a turn of a tiny adjustment screw can make the difference between CO -emission free combustion and possible catastrophe.
As this is unlikely to be case with these binoculars
( unless they include an explosive feature I am blissfully unaware of ) I would indeed be most appreciative of any help in this direction -- although I will be away until Sunday night from the time of this writing.
Apollo 11 ,apart from when practising pole vaulting,
I find the tripod to be much better than a monopod in every respect.
Apart from my Zeiss 7 x 42s ,and my US Fender Telecaster standard guitar ,the Manfrotto set -up is the ONLY thing I own which I can recommend without reservations.
Regards , Kenny.
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Kenny,
if you'd like to reduce the number of stars your seeing in those binocs, we can get you adjusted. When you get back give a yell. Rather than a long list of instructions, we'll start with the short method.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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sftonkin
sage
Reged: 02/25/04
Posts: 401
Loc: W. Hampshire , UK
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I had some of those Helios 15x70 (yes, they are Japanese)until quite recently. For what they were, I found them to be excellent VFM -- there's a review of them somewhere in the CN binocular stuff. Mine weren't perfectly collimated, but it was not so bad to cause double vision. I guess this may be a quality control issue. I also noticed that mine had a slightly sharper (or should I say "less unsharp"?) outer field than a friend's although his were better collimated -- again this points to QC.
Because they were "good enough", I never bothered to fiddle with the collimation of mine -- telescopes I can handle, but my knowledge of adjustment of binocular optics is only sufficient to make me aware that I don't have the facility/ability to do it properly.
But Kenny, if yours are so bad, can you not return them? You have a case under Sale of Goods Act -- they need to be of "merchantable quality" and suitable for the intended purpose. Double vision is, ipso facto, unsuitable and can be argued to render them unmerchantable.
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Stephen
Hindsight: The only truly diffraction-limited system
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Stephen ,
An added problem is that I bought them used via Chris Heapy' astro ads :-)
They looked like brand new when I got them , box , inner wrapping and all.
Ed ,
Thanks for your kind offer , which I will take you up on from Sunday evening B.S.T.
I may be exaggerating a little when I say "double vision" they are not THAT bad really -- but I know they are not right.
Consequently I feel I haven't got THAT much to lose , even if I do make a complete bodge of it.
I guess I'll still have a 15 x 70 monocular or two even in the worse case scenario , given a modicum of luck :-)
Catch you on the sabbath , Kenny.
Thanks for your kind
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Kenny,
it's really fairly straight forward.
You will need a small jeweler's screw driver, with a 1.0mm to 1.5mm flat tip. if you haven't got one, often you can find little sets of three or four at the hardware store for $5-$10. I got my set of 5 sizes in the dollar bin 20 years ago. Still got 4 of the 5.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Thanks Ed,
We call the "watchmaker's" drivers here in the backwaters.
I already have a set , so all "set" to go on Sunday.
Just as well it's straight forward with ME at the wrong end of a screwdriver !
I REALLY must go NOW ( my wife , daughter and pet dog are already sat in the car shouting and barking at me respectively ) :-)
Regards , Kenny.
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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sftonkin
sage
Reged: 02/25/04
Posts: 401
Loc: W. Hampshire , UK
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Ah. You should haved had mine when I sold them through Chris Heapy's. :-)
I've just bought a couple of cheap 10x50s on Ebay, for the purpose of teaching myself how to adjust them and how to recognise and correct different types of misalignment. The first was a Helios Naturesport (looks brand new) that I got for £1.20 ($2.00) -- turns out they are not easily (mis)adjustable (cemented prisms), and are actually very nice (for cheap "coated"-- they now reside in the car as "always at hand when away from home" bins. A few days ago I won an old Zenith (for nearly 6 times as much as the Helios!) which I hope will be more amenable to stuffing about with.
Anyway, if the plan works, I may soon have the ability to adjust, and to help others adjust... (but I'm sure Ed's advice will be much better!)
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Stephen
Hindsight: The only truly diffraction-limited system
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 31037
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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Kenny, If I can do it, you can do it. It does bring up a question though...would there be anyplace that you could take a pair of binoculars to locally to have them collimated? I would like to have mine professionally done...who would call for something like this?
Good luck on Sunday...
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Tom 
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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rboe
Reged: 03/16/02
Posts: 63466
Loc: Phx, AZ
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Dry humor has gotten me into more trouble - sheesh! Let fly, take some pressure me. 
And get those sucker tweaked. You deserve decent optics. Follow Ed, he's been right before. 
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Ron
NS11GPS
Pronto
16" dob
127mm F9 Surplus Shed/Crawmach kit scope
Coronado SolarMax 40 on a Celestron 102 Wide Field
Best of ATM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I like your idea Stephen of having a (sacrificial perhaps) pair of binos to learn the collimating technique.
Tom, what local shop would be able to collimate binoculars? A camera/photography shop? Just wondering...
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 31037
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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NW, that is my question...I guess a dedicated camera shop could do it.
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Tom
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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