mathteacher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Oakland, CA
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I live in an urban zone, so doubles are key objects for me. My first was Castor. Seeing the two glistening pearls got me hooked. I saw Almach and fell in love with astronomy. I've had some great sessions by just taking an atlas and hopping to doubles in a part of the sky. It's really exciting when I discover something beautiful.
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Ex-mathteacher . . . . . . . Images and Gear
CR 150-HD - The Hammer, Vixen ED100sf - The Skipper, Orion ST80 - The Pug
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lunartic65
sage
Reged: 12/26/06
Posts: 475
Loc: Dublin Ireland
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I'm in agreement with Isaac, double stars suffer from a lack of press, to those of us who love them there's nothing better, for those who are less aware, it's hard to complete against the images of the Pillars of Creation, the Cat's Eye Nebula and M101 and M31 that are splashed across the pages of the magazines.
Doubles are one of those objects that can only truly be appreciated at the eyepiece.
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Paul
We have your satellite if you want it back send 20 billion in Martian money. No funny business or you'll never see it again.
Seen on a hall wall at the Jet Propulsion Lab.
William Optics Megrez 110mm
Skywatcher AZ4 Alt-Az mount
22mm Vixen LVW
11mm T6 Nagler
6.5mm Meade HD-60
4.8mm T1 Nagler
Pentax 10x50 Binos
1 Wife
4 Children
1 Cat
A Crowded House
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demiles
sage
Reged: 11/07/06
Posts: 419
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Every clear night I'm out in my light polluted back yard huntin down doubles. Just can't seem to get enough. Cildarith, I did end up buying the Parks AZ6 in F8. That mount does need some tweaks but I was able to get vibrations down to 2 sec or less.
Edited by demiles (10/02/07 06:50 PM)
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cvedeler
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/20/05
Posts: 2203
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
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Doubles are one of the few visual astronomical targets that don't require travel to a dark site. Steady air and good seeing is all that is needed. This makes it ideal for those of us who do 90% of our observing from an urban location.
I like the challenge, but it takes something of a nerd to appreciate it. When I have friends come over to look through my scope the most Oooh and ahhhh comes from Saturn and then the moon. M42 sometimes gets a similar response, but generally all the other deep sky stuff is too faint to be seen well from my back yard. I don't even try to impress anyone with doubles. One exception was when my engineer brother was visiting and I showed him the E and F stars in the trapezium and we tried to split Sirius. He actually enjoyed it too, but like I said it takes something of a nerd... 
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Chris Vedeler
Astro-Physics 160EDF
Astro-Physics 900GTO
Q453HR / QHY8 CCD camera
Canon 450XSi
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www.aznightsky.com
Scottsdale, AZ
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tjswood
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 1881
Loc: Earth
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Quote:
I don't even try to impress anyone with doubles. One exception was when my engineer brother was visiting and I showed him the E and F stars in the trapezium and we tried to split Sirius. He actually enjoyed it too, but like I said it takes something of a nerd...
Some still view those who do astronomy in general as geeks / nerds (take my wife... please  ). So I guess from your statements it can be said that double star observers are the true geeks among the geeks...
... no offense intended with these parallels... as an engineer myself, and amateur astronomer who loves double stars, I resemble these remarks...
Tim
Edited by tjswood (10/02/07 07:57 PM)
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Bonco
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/17/06
Posts: 3036
Loc: Florida
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Geeks R Us.
Bonco
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RV6
Meade 2045
6 inch f/4 RFT R. Fagin Optics
TV Genesis
2.4 inch Lafayette Equitorial
3 inch Polarex Equitorial
10 inch Zhumell
PST 40mm Solar scope
4 inch F/15 Antares
2.4 inch Unitron Equitorial
Tasco 10K 80mm/1200mm (Carton)
Towa 339 Restored (Carton)
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asteroid7
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/19/04
Posts: 4273
Loc: CT
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I seek, I tweak, I creak, therefore, I am an old double star geek.
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Clear Nights "Make My Day"
4.5" f/7 APM (TMB) APO Refractor CG5 GoTo with Orion extension tube
8" Celestron CPC (two)
Eyepieces:
40mm Pentax; 24mm Tele Vue Panoptic, 18mm Tele Vue Radian, 18mm HD Ortho, 15mm Celestron Omini,14mm Pentax,10mm Tele Vue Radian, 7mm,5mm & 3.5mm Nagler; 7.4mm Tele Vue Plossl.
2.5 Tele Vue Powermate
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tjswood
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 1881
Loc: Earth
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Quote:
I seek, I tweak, I creak, therefore, I am an old double star geek.
Coming from one with 117 some odd pages of double star drawings... I will take your word on that!
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btschumy
Vendor - Southern Stars
Reged: 04/13/04
Posts: 1708
Loc: Longmont, CO, USA
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One thing I've found that enhances my enjoyment of doubles is knowing their physical separation. The "Where is M13?" program (shameless plug) lists the line-of-site separation in units of solar system diameters or AUs. I personally like thinking in terms of solar system diameters.
Some examples:
Albireo (separated by 52 SS diameters)
Rigel (30 SS)
Castor (0.78 SS)
Almach (14 SS)
Porrima (0.11 SS)
Mu Draconis (0.75 SS)
I'm working on another app that will do this for the entire WDS catalog.
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Bill Tschumy
Southern Stars
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auriga
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 03/02/06
Posts: 1228
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Bill,
"Where is M13" ia a wonderful program that does what no other program does, and it is very inexpensive to boot (pun). Thanks much for creating it! A real contribution to amateur astronomy.
I look forward to your next program.
Bill Meyers
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ronharper
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 2065
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naah. singles.
Ron
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novbabies
Postmaster
Reged: 06/05/05
Posts: 15678
Loc: Northern Georgia!
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Quote:
Quote:
I seek, I tweak, I creak, therefore, I am an old double star geek.
Coming from one with 117 some odd pages of double star drawings... I will take your word on that!
Rich (asteroid7) is the quintessential example of someone making lemonade from lemons. He does his observing from a highly light polluted area, and so makes the best of what he has. His contributions to Cloudy Nights in the double star realm are of inestimable value to those of us who want some idea of what the next double star might look like in our scopes. Kudos to you, Rich  !!
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Good Seeing!
Mark
Orion 12" XTi f/4.9
VERY old Edmund 6" f/8 reflector
Assorted binoculars
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asteroid7
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/19/04
Posts: 4273
Loc: CT
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I seek, I tweak, I creak, therefore, I am an old double star geek.
Thank you, double star guys for the kind words. Although
I have polluted skies, I do have a pretty much large
area of sky to observe. Only the western horizon (60%)is
blocked by a tall apartment building. Of course, observing
from, say, New York City would be worst. So, I am pretty much satisfied with the observing site - besides, I like
lemondade, especially Crystal Lite. But I do envy you
guys with 6 mag naked eye observing sites. I observed
from such a site a long time ago and there was so many
stars that I thought I was abducted by aliens and taken
to another planet.
Rich
Coming from one with 117 some odd pages of double star drawings... I will take your word on that!
Rich (asteroid7) is the quintessential example of someone making lemonade from lemons. He does his observing from a highly light polluted area, and so makes the best of what he has. His contributions to Cloudy Nights in the double star realm are of inestimable value to those of us who want some idea of what the next double star might look like in our scopes. Kudos to you, Rich !!
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Clear Nights "Make My Day"
4.5" f/7 APM (TMB) APO Refractor CG5 GoTo with Orion extension tube
8" Celestron CPC (two)
Eyepieces:
40mm Pentax; 24mm Tele Vue Panoptic, 18mm Tele Vue Radian, 18mm HD Ortho, 15mm Celestron Omini,14mm Pentax,10mm Tele Vue Radian, 7mm,5mm & 3.5mm Nagler; 7.4mm Tele Vue Plossl.
2.5 Tele Vue Powermate
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tjswood
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 1881
Loc: Earth
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Quote:
Rich (asteroid7) is the quintessential example of someone making lemonade from lemons. He does his observing from a highly light polluted area, and so makes the best of what he has. His contributions to Cloudy Nights in the double star realm are of inestimable value to those of us who want some idea of what the next double star might look like in our scopes. Kudos to you, Rich !!
Mark - yes, I realize this. I have given my kudos to Rich in the past via the forum and PM's... he is providing a very valuable service to CN and astronomers alike.
I was taking the opportunity to have a little fun with his humorous reply... hope you didn't take it as anything otherwise. (taking my quote as a jump off point to give him credit kinda felt that way).
Tim
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novbabies
Postmaster
Reged: 06/05/05
Posts: 15678
Loc: Northern Georgia!
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Quote:
Quote:
Rich (asteroid7) is the quintessential example of someone making lemonade from lemons. He does his observing from a highly light polluted area, and so makes the best of what he has. His contributions to Cloudy Nights in the double star realm are of inestimable value to those of us who want some idea of what the next double star might look like in our scopes. Kudos to you, Rich !!
Mark - yes, I realize this. I have given my kudos to Rich in the past via the forum and PM's... he is providing a very valuable service to CN and astronomers alike.
I was taking the opportunity to have a little fun with his humorous reply... hope you didn't take it as anything otherwise. (taking my quote as a jump off point to give him credit kinda felt that way).
Tim
Nope, not at all, I just like to recognize folks (not only for their own benefit but to encourage others who may be in like situations) and give credit where credit is due !
No worries  !
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Good Seeing!
Mark
Orion 12" XTi f/4.9
VERY old Edmund 6" f/8 reflector
Assorted binoculars
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tjswood
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 1881
Loc: Earth
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Rich -
Just so you know, your observations / drawings are of great use to me. I have created a spreadsheet that has 150 of my favorite / challenge double stars, and it has a hyperlink to your drawing as a reference on what to expect that I downloaded from CN.
So your drawings are forever encapsulated in my viewing regimen for doubles! Thanks again for this valuable resource!
Tim
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asteroid7
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/19/04
Posts: 4273
Loc: CT
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Quote:
Rich -
Just so you know, your observations / drawings are of great use to me. I have created a spreadsheet that has 150 of my favorite / challenge double stars, and it has a hyperlink to your drawing as a reference on what to expect that I downloaded from CN.
So your drawings are forever encapsulated in my viewing regimen for doubles! Thanks again for this valuable resource!
Tim
Tim
I am glad that you find my sketches useful. One of the
reasons that I sketch is to promote double star observing.
Double stars are neglected, ever since the heydays of the
19th and early 20th centuries.
Double stars are especially fun for those who live in
urban settings, and double stars are one of the best
sky objects to show color. They can be very beautiful,
and there is a challenge to splitting the closer pairs.
So, double stars have a lot going for it.
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Clear Nights "Make My Day"
4.5" f/7 APM (TMB) APO Refractor CG5 GoTo with Orion extension tube
8" Celestron CPC (two)
Eyepieces:
40mm Pentax; 24mm Tele Vue Panoptic, 18mm Tele Vue Radian, 18mm HD Ortho, 15mm Celestron Omini,14mm Pentax,10mm Tele Vue Radian, 7mm,5mm & 3.5mm Nagler; 7.4mm Tele Vue Plossl.
2.5 Tele Vue Powermate
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bluestar
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 1692
Loc: Maryland Eastern Shore
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Heavy doubles observer here. Some good points on this thread. IMHO many popular modern star atlases poorly represent or describe doubles, or using modern nomenclature from Hippocaros data and lists (I haven't started venturing into this yet and am 'old skool' still working w/paper vs computer lists) thereby leading to poor interest re the scores of doubles in each constellation.
Sources that never leave my table include:
- Norton's Star Atlas 15th Edition from 1964
- Burnham's Celestial Handbook set (a fantastic match w/older Nortons w/each listing by older Struve #'s, not Hippocaros etc like the newer and worthless Editions of Nortons)
- Double Stars for the Small Telescope
- Sky Atlas 2000.0
The astro press will publish things people are interested in...more articles will stimulate more observing...but interest is low so there are not many articles so its kind of a chicken and egg thing. In the acedemic press, the principles/observations of binary systems of stars is very high right now w/search for distant exoplanets and similar bodies...there has to be a connection made between these and binary systems the average observer can see to spark the imagination. Many doubles whether they have a color contrast or not have a story or history...Otherwise doubles are viewed as "boring". In that vein, how many times can you view M31 and it looks the same; doubles are actually "in motion" that van be viewable over years or previous observational records.
There is a perpetuation and stereotype of doubles being difficult, requiring only high mags, a test for good seeing (i.e. you need good seeing to view them) and utilitarian for telescope testing. These have the potential or actuality to erode the casual (or serious) fun observation and interest especially for the beginner. Many observers rattle off the high mags for their observations...I go the other extreme. I like to see how LITTLE mag is needed to do the split. First off I make a game of it; every double is different and I see how LOW a mag I need to get an elongation or split...kinda like double star game of limbo...with many stars outta the gate appearing single but slowly giving up their companion. I've described this game to veteran 2x observers and they think I'm nuts, that high power is THE way to do doubles and that I'm missing out on the real pleasure and satisfaction of chasing them. Yea, I inch up the power but don't let high power call the shots or dictate to me...I also let the aesthetic of the double, especially in view or context w/the surrounding field, add to the fun. My wife amuses me recounting hearing "wow!", "hot dog!", "wooops...there it is", "there you are!" "d(arn) it" "awriiight!"...from the observatory; and I've been observing these for years.
Some of the newer paper and elecronic literature covering doubles, and "how to observe them" delve into measures(!) and imaging...which may leave the aftertaste that "real" observation of doubles involves these complicated schemes...thereby establishing the camps of visual observers and what I call data observers.
I used to do sketches and viewing logs, but have gotten out of this a couple years ago due to lack of time and now having shorter (but more) observing sessions at the eyepiece. It will be nice to eventually getting back to sketching...that was a lot of fun.
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Pat Kelly @ Bluestar Observatory
D&G 8" f/12 w/AP1200DA
Previous telescopes A-Z; Astro-Physics to Zeiss
The Classic Refractor - A telescope everybody wants to have used but nobody wants to own.
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Mattias
super member
Reged: 08/22/07
Posts: 101
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I agree... IMHO they are a great "substitute" when conditions are less than optimal. I don't mean to offend anybody, but I don't observe very often and when I do there are usually other things who get my attention.
One reason for underappreciation may be the lack of data. They are beautiful to look at but where are they? (Please correct me if I'm wrong!) The DSO observers have the Sky Atlas 2000.0 Companion, the excellent Messier site @ seds.org and an NGC/IC site. While I haven't been looking very carefully, I haven't found any similar double star databases.
In late July, before the skies were astronomically dark, I observed doubles (using the Astronomical League double star club list) in order to "train" for the upcoming season and for each star I tried to find out the angle and the colors. The great highlight was 70 Ophiuchi, where my observation of 130° and about 6" was very close to reality while the data in the list had changed since 2000.
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asteroid7
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/19/04
Posts: 4273
Loc: CT
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Look on top of this forum. All kinds of databases are available.
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Clear Nights "Make My Day"
4.5" f/7 APM (TMB) APO Refractor CG5 GoTo with Orion extension tube
8" Celestron CPC (two)
Eyepieces:
40mm Pentax; 24mm Tele Vue Panoptic, 18mm Tele Vue Radian, 18mm HD Ortho, 15mm Celestron Omini,14mm Pentax,10mm Tele Vue Radian, 7mm,5mm & 3.5mm Nagler; 7.4mm Tele Vue Plossl.
2.5 Tele Vue Powermate
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