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w orchid
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/23/07
Posts: 1137
Loc: Tampa, Fl
G11 vs CGE
      #3077805 - 04/30/09 08:26 PM

If you were two choose only one of these goto mounts, which one will you pick? The mount will be used for imaging with a 4 or 5 inch refractor, will be transported to dark sites, and using multiple cameras.

--------------------
Celestron C8 orange tube circa 1979
Stellarvue SV102ED
SBIG ST8300C
http://www.astrophotogallery.org/u378-man-of-constant-sorrow.html


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kbastro
sage


Reged: 04/20/08
Posts: 480
Loc: Running from Clouds
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: w orchid]
      #3077898 - 04/30/09 09:17 PM

G11 hands down with the gemini goto

better gears, better tripod and a proven performer

--------------------
Lots of scopes
Lots of cameras
Lots of mounts
A couple CCD's
and finally just a few eyepieces


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GShaffer
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/28/09
Posts: 1560
Loc: Bogart, Ga USA
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: kbastro]
      #3078137 - 04/30/09 11:26 PM

I am going to concur with kbastro......Dont own either one but I do have a G8 and have played with both a CGE and a G11.....G11 wins.

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20" MidnighTelescope f/5
8" f/15 Achro(project),AR6, C11, Parallax PI-250
ED102SS, FL102S,NA140SS,R200SS, 80mm NighthawkII w/TMB Fluorite Optics, SV70ED, AT66ED
LXD75, Mini-tower, GPDX, ASGT, LXD650, GM-8, GM-100,GM-150EX, G11, GM-200, Gemini G40
4" portable AP convertable 44" or 70" pier
MidnighTelescope 12.5" F/5 Dob

Bogart GA


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tidroplane
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 10/02/06
Posts: 1326
Loc: Everett, Wa. USA
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: GShaffer]
      #3078310 - 05/01/09 01:48 AM

I havn`t used the CGE, but I do own a G-11 and couldn`t be more satesfied, very well built and rock solid.

--------------------
Clear skies.....David


AT111EDT
AT80EDTA
AT66ED
G-11, Gemini
ST2000XCM


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Trebor777
Hazy


Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 1207
Loc: Connecticut - U.S.
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: tidroplane]
      #3078313 - 05/01/09 01:51 AM

I'm gonna say the CGE - because no one else has ...and I just got one 2 weeks ago.

--------------------
- Randy

Telescopes, Eyepieces, Mounts, Filters, CCD Cameras,
Astronomy Accessories, My Eyes, My Mind (Sometimes) and Hopefully Clear Skies.




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greekoh
sage


Reged: 03/12/06
Posts: 444
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: Trebor777]
      #3078596 - 05/01/09 09:04 AM

Hey Randy and any CGE owner.

How is the tracking when auto guiding and have you had to tweak anything out of the box regarding Pec?
My understanding is the mount wont track past the Meridian with recalibrating and if so is this a pain.

Iā€™m considering a CGE and or G11 for imaging

Thanks
Troy

--------------------
Troy Tsounis

www.charlotteskies.com


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Charlie HeinAdministrator
Postmaster


Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 11211
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: greekoh]
      #3078672 - 05/01/09 09:55 AM Attachment (60 downloads)

It almost doesn't matter what GEM you use - there is a risk of running into the pier or having the mount actually crash into itself when running past the meridian with the scope in certain positions. The two mounts deal with this in different ways. The CGE has a hard mechanical stop to prevent this. The G-11 has software limits that you can set to avoid crashes.

My G-11 tracks very well and autoguides very nicely. Here is an example image at just about 1 arcsecond resolution per pixel on the G-11...

Attachment

--------------------
Weston CSC:


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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied


Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 21117
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #3078743 - 05/01/09 10:38 AM

i'm a CGE fan with one caveat...before first light, you need to install the very inexpensive Marty cables. Once these are installed, the CGE becomes a very nice mount.

David

--------------------
Money can't buy happiness, but it sure makes misery easier to live with.



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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies


Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 9062
Loc: Bolton, MA
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: David Pavlich]
      #3078777 - 05/01/09 10:53 AM

My CGE worked fabulously (and now Randy has it!) but strongly concur on the cable "upgrade" (their wicked inexpensive, and if they were marketed by an astronomy outfit, no doubt would be 10X the price - but STILL worth it!)...

One observation that will ultimately come up, so I'll broach it:

The "fear" of learning the supposedly complex Gemini system.

Well, I just converted 2 weeks ago from CGE to MI-250, which meant learning Gemini coming from NextStar.

Short version: a total non-event, and now I PREFER Gemini
Longer version: I had one "mishap" which was really more of a "RTFM Fool!" moment. I entered my Civil Time, instead of UTC during the cold startup... after all, every other GoTo system uses CIVIL time!

Once past that... I now find Gemini to be hugely intuitive, dead-easy to use WITHOUT LOOKING at the HC!!!

And, most importantly, more powerful and accurate. Now, the caveat on "more accurate" is that I also have a new and bigger/better mount... so that comment may be PART the mount...

But, I believe the ability to continually build an ever bigger pointing model has something to do with it as well.

So, don't let the "fear of Gemini" be the reason to choose between two very fine mounts: the CGE and the G11...

Final caveat: I have NO experience with the G11, only a noob's experiences with Gemini on an MI-250.

Clear enough skies

--------------------
Dave

MI250 SBS mounted: C11Hyperstar,FSQ106ED,TOA130NFB;Lunt60THaB1200FT/DS50
Visual:DM6, XT10i w/ZambutoMirror,RTP
EP: 31T5, Ethos (21,17,13&8),10XW,5XW,3.5XW; Paracorr T1
MallincamColorHyper+,QSI583WS,QHY8
SBIG STV eFinder
Denk II: (2x24Pan,2x10XW)
Gerbings Heated clothes, Wilder Skies Observatory (BYO#90), Speco9"Monitor


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mclewis1
Thread Killer


Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 8913
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: kbastro]
      #3078925 - 05/01/09 12:14 PM

Quote:

G11 hands down with the gemini goto better gears, better tripod and a proven performer



Better tripod - yup but how much better (it's certainly heavier but I've never seen any difference in dampening times) and at what cost? ... the G11 is over $500 more than the CGE.
Better gears - in some ways yes (finer teeth) but some of the differences between the gears actually induces a minor issue (the way the G11 worm is mounted causes the 76s error), there are however some nice worm upgrades for the G11 (again more $). In the end the average PE from both late model CGEs and G11s appears to be very similar. The bigger issue is the smoothness of the PE curve. With a fairly smooth PE, applied PPEC and a properly setup autoguider you'd be hard pressed to see any difference in your images between the mounts.
Proven performer - both are very well proven, and very well respected. There are equally great images taken with either mount. The problem is comparing them since there are waaay too many other variables in the images (scope, flexure, polar alignment, atmospheric conditions, processing tricks, etc.).

Pointing accuracy, ease of polar alignment, setup time, and carrying capacity are all similar. The CGE sw is easier to upgrade (firmware download vs. a new PROM). From here you can go back and forth on many minor differences, but IMHO they tend to all fall into the category of just getting used to a different ways of doing something.

Personally I'd take the $500 difference and use the money for some other equipment.

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Pier mounted CGE in a POD, and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - 350Da, DSI-P, SPC900, NexImage, Mallincam

Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should


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antilles72
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 1709
Loc: Rhode Island
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: mclewis1]
      #3079067 - 05/01/09 01:32 PM

Hey Mark, how well does the CGE handle the C11? Do you use it for AP and Visual?

--------------------
Royston

Royston's Cosmic Log
Royston Kane Photography
Royston Kane SmugMug
Orion Scenix 10x50
Bushnell Sky Chief III 60mm F/15
Orion Sirius Plossl 10mm, 20mm, 25mm

Nikon D7000, Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8, Sigma 10-20mm





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Trebor777
Hazy


Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 1207
Loc: Connecticut - U.S.
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: antilles72]
      #3079157 - 05/01/09 02:26 PM

Quote:

Hey Mark, how well does the CGE handle the C11? Do you use it for AP and Visual?




Don't know how much the C11 weighs, but I've thrown a 50# setup SN10, TMB92SS & goodies) on the CGE and it slews it around like it's a feather. As long as it's balanced correctly I haven't had an issue.

I also like the CGE's alignment set-up. 2 star align - polar alignment - 2 star align - 4 calibration stars works great. GoTo's are spot on. I like the polar alignment routine - especially since you don't need a polar alignment scope. It's a lot easier then with my Atlas.

I also got a great deal on the CGE with a bunch of upgrades the previos owner did - cables, ADM knobs, pier adapter, AMD side-by-side adapter (Thanx Dave). You can pick up a used CGE for around $2000-$2300 depending on the seller/condition.

But, I'm sure the G-11 is a good step up. How much of a step up is probably a personal preference. CGE is also rated at 65#'s, while the G-11 is at 60#'s.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's a wait list for the G-11's - (astronomics has them in stock though, so I'm probably wrong) and I was thinking that the CGE would be more available.

But the G-11 is probably "better" than the CGE, but they're both great performers.

--------------------
- Randy

Telescopes, Eyepieces, Mounts, Filters, CCD Cameras,
Astronomy Accessories, My Eyes, My Mind (Sometimes) and Hopefully Clear Skies.




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RogerLaureys
member


Reged: 02/02/05
Posts: 69
Loc: Hasselt,Belgium
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: Trebor777]
      #3079164 - 05/01/09 02:33 PM

Hi,
I have both mounts but I prefer the CGE. It's far more user friendly then the G11.
Best regards,
Roger


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan


Reged: 02/28/06
Posts: 15373
Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: w orchid]
      #3079233 - 05/01/09 03:12 PM

I'm in the exact same boat. I find myself needing a 60+ pound capacity mount, and the G-11 Gemini and CGE are the front runners. Mine won't be used for imaging, though I am leaning toward an image intensifying eyepiece, but will travel quite a bit. Gemini firmware takes some practice. I already know Nexstar's commands. CGE is less expensive, but lacks analog setting circles. Neither is really optimal for a C-14 OTA, which is likely the largest portable OTA I would be mounting ever. The G-11 is easy to tinker with and has tons of parts available for it. The CGE *may* be on the way out or otherwise due for a major overhaul/redesign shortly. I don't like the orange on the CGE but like its chunky robotic look. I don't like the standard G-11 tripod. Gemini requires many more alignment stars, but may be more accurate, but since I'm not imaging I really don't care. CGEs need new cables out of the box. G-11 Geminis (at least early ones) burned out motors with some frquency - care and feeding regarding gear mesh and the like are mandatory.

It's such a close call for me. I'm really interested in the responses thus far. Maybe I should bite the bullet and get an A-P 900 that doesn't really have any drawbacks for my intended use (other than almost 3x the cost!).

Regards,

Jim

--------------------
“I observe vicariously, through myself. When I purchase a new telescope, it's value increases. At star parties, attendees line up to observe me. My observing philosophy: Find out what it is that your telescope doesn't do well, then don't do those things. At historic observatories I am allowed to touch the equipment. My legend precedes me the way the Big Bang precedes everything else.”

- The Most Interesting Astronomer in the Universe

Edited by jrbarnett (05/01/09 03:19 PM)


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan


Reged: 02/28/06
Posts: 15373
Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: kbastro]
      #3079237 - 05/01/09 03:15 PM

Aren't the gears on the G-11 aluminum and the gears on the CGE bronze? If so, bronze ought to be better and more durable.

Regards,

Jim

--------------------
“I observe vicariously, through myself. When I purchase a new telescope, it's value increases. At star parties, attendees line up to observe me. My observing philosophy: Find out what it is that your telescope doesn't do well, then don't do those things. At historic observatories I am allowed to touch the equipment. My legend precedes me the way the Big Bang precedes everything else.”

- The Most Interesting Astronomer in the Universe


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Bowmoreman
Clear enough skies


Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 9062
Loc: Bolton, MA
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #3079241 - 05/01/09 03:16 PM

I already knew NextStar after over a year's solid use... but made the transition to Gemini in one night... yeah, it's complexity is over-hyped in my direct experience (and I definitely WAS worried about it!)

that said, if you're purely Visual, I think either will work fine...

Frankly, nothing about either of these screams "portable" to me, but then I'm a fast falling apart 50 year old!

And I think either WOULD handle a C14 for visual... but again, I'm not so sure C14's meet MY personal definition of portable... YMMV

clear enough skies

--------------------
Dave

MI250 SBS mounted: C11Hyperstar,FSQ106ED,TOA130NFB;Lunt60THaB1200FT/DS50
Visual:DM6, XT10i w/ZambutoMirror,RTP
EP: 31T5, Ethos (21,17,13&8),10XW,5XW,3.5XW; Paracorr T1
MallincamColorHyper+,QSI583WS,QHY8
SBIG STV eFinder
Denk II: (2x24Pan,2x10XW)
Gerbings Heated clothes, Wilder Skies Observatory (BYO#90), Speco9"Monitor


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mclewis1
Thread Killer


Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 8913
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: antilles72]
      #3079250 - 05/01/09 03:23 PM Attachment (39 downloads)

Quote:

Hey Mark, how well does the CGE handle the C11? Do you use it for AP and Visual?



Royston, The C11 at 27lbs (+ ~5 for "accessories") is a breeze for the CGE. The issue is that loooong 2800+mm focal length. An F6.3 reducer is a necessity and I usually use my refractor at 650-800mm a lot more often when imaging. I really like to get the overall weight down when I'm imaging so I've even gone away from an 80mm refractor with rings as a guide scope and am now using a converted 50mm finderscope (with a 2x barlow lens so it's running at around 400mm).

I use the C11 with the 115mm refractor side by side for visual work all the time ... that setup is well over 50lbs and the CGE handles it (when properly balanced) just fine.

Here is a picture of the sub 3lb autoguider on the C11/CGE combo.

Attachment

--------------------
Mark

C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Pier mounted CGE in a POD, and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - 350Da, DSI-P, SPC900, NexImage, Mallincam

Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should


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antilles72
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 1709
Loc: Rhode Island
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: Trebor777]
      #3079256 - 05/01/09 03:25 PM

Thanks Randy. I would like to get a mid level GEM in the next year and these are on the short list. I would add a 8-11" SC or a 6" refractor scope to the 80ED . Can't make up my mind yet, but there is time. The C11 is at 28lbs and with an ED80 on top, plus other accessories, I am sure the total weight will be around 50lbs.

--------------------
Royston

Royston's Cosmic Log
Royston Kane Photography
Royston Kane SmugMug
Orion Scenix 10x50
Bushnell Sky Chief III 60mm F/15
Orion Sirius Plossl 10mm, 20mm, 25mm

Nikon D7000, Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8, Sigma 10-20mm





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antilles72
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 1709
Loc: Rhode Island
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: mclewis1]
      #3079270 - 05/01/09 03:31 PM

Thanks Mark. Seems like that is a good way to go for imaging, weight wise. This is exactly the info I am looking for . Good to know there is a mount under 3k that can fit my needs (my wife would say wants).

--------------------
Royston

Royston's Cosmic Log
Royston Kane Photography
Royston Kane SmugMug
Orion Scenix 10x50
Bushnell Sky Chief III 60mm F/15
Orion Sirius Plossl 10mm, 20mm, 25mm

Nikon D7000, Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8, Sigma 10-20mm





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David PavlichAdministrator
Transmographied


Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 21117
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
Re: G11 vs CGE new [Re: antilles72]
      #3079426 - 05/01/09 04:42 PM

The CGE or G11 will handle the C14 easily for visual and that's from experience. I believe Dwight, one of our imagers, was using a 14" Meade/Hyperstar on a G11. The Meade is in the neighborhood of 65-70lbs. Dwight did some nice imaging with it. Granted, it's Hyperstar equipped, but it does say something for the G11. I imaged with about 70lbs on my CGE, so it can be done. However, my CGE was on a permanent pier and that also makes a difference.

David

--------------------
Money can't buy happiness, but it sure makes misery easier to live with.



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