Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4820
Loc: Sunny California
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England! Well, I have a brother living in Richmond who keeps begging me to visit (it's been six years) so maybe I should go and bring the scope.
-------------------- Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Televue Gibraltar 5
Vixen Portamount
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Tel
Postmaster
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 7764
Loc: Wallingford England
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Well, that depends on whether you're talking of Richmond near London or Richmond in Yorkshire ! I don't mind a back and forth to Richmond (London) which is on my doorstep but Yorkshire is a wee bit off my beaten track !
Back to balance, It sounds about right from what you say that your 6SE may well now be back end heavy especially with the finder, diagonal and EP in place and even with sufficient base clearance ( say appro x.1/2" - 1") to allow you to reach the zenith.
In any event try it out. I'm pretty sure that the 6SE is similar to my Nexstar 8i. By contrast, the 5SE is known to be basically nose heavy.
However, if there's no improvement switch to the negative altitude approach and try again. If you do have to use a negative approach, change your centralisation at the "Two Star Alignment" stage (or whatever you choose), to right and up. If you can report back on this, we'll take it all further as and where necessary.
Regards, Tel
-------------------- Truth is the cubed root of Verbosity.
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4820
Loc: Sunny California
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Richmond, just outside London. Beautiful place. My brother has a nice flat just a block from the Thames.
As far as weight distribution, how about sliding the scope more forward on the mount?
I have enough clearance to reach Zenith. I'm using a 1.25 diagonal, not a 2".
Here's the scope as its set up:
-------------------- Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Televue Gibraltar 5
Vixen Portamount
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Tel
Postmaster
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 7764
Loc: Wallingford England
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OK, See you in Richmond when you pay that long overdue visit ! Don't forget the 'scope though !
But we digress !
Now,for the more mundane ! Back to balance and "GoTo Approach".
I've been looking at the manual and I see that Celestron issue it seemingly to cover both the 6SE and the 8SE. It also states that if you have a back end heavy 'scope (and the inference in the manual is that you have -- and your picture also tells me so) then you need a negative altitude setting.
However, when Mike Swanson wrote his "Nexstar Users Guide" book, he advocated a positive approach for the Nexstar 8i (predecessor of the 8iSE and 8SE) because it literally was back end heavy. The 8i was also fixed to the mount arm (as was the 8iSE) and could not be slid forward or aft. It would also not reach the zenith due to inadequate base clearance.
Since then I have modified my 8i with a "Ray's bracket to allow zenith slewing. The OTA is therefore somewhat forward of its original fixed position but is still back end heavy hence I maintain a positive altitude setting as Mike Swanson's book advised. I may add that I have had no problems with alignment and subsequent GoTo slews maintaining this setting.
OK, so now you can see from this explanation that its not easy to advise on settings since although these manuals tend to treat these two scopes the same, there can be setting anomolies associated with each model.
Your set up seems very similar to mine. I have a 9 X 50mm finder mounted in the same position as you, but I got rid of the RDF. However, I do have a motor focuser adding some weight to the rear end. Additionally I use both 1.25" and 2" EPs but the OTA settings are tolerant to both. To finish off I also have a similar dew shield.
So, in answer to your question about base clearance, I'd say yes, slide the OTA forward the required distance to give adequate (not excessive) base clearance and take it from there.
As said, keep the azimuth setting positive at all times. Try the positive approach setting on the altitude axis and make your "Two Star Alignment" (I use the Auto Two Star" but no matter). This should work when combined with "Right" and "Down" directions to centralise the alignment stars in the EP. If it doesn't work then change the setting to negative in line with the manual and use the "Right" and "Up" to centralise. Let me know how you get on. Whichever looks good, stick with it and slew to an east lying and a west lying object respectively, centralising them as I described earlier.
All success, Tel
-------------------- Truth is the cubed root of Verbosity.
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Tel
Postmaster
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 7764
Loc: Wallingford England
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Incidentally this is my set up. Very similar don't you think?
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s121/Tel_album/BacktoNature.jpg
Regards, Tel
-------------------- Truth is the cubed root of Verbosity.
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4820
Loc: Sunny California
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Nice looking scope.
Thanks for the advise. I'll fool around with it tonight if it doesn't end up raining. Right now I'm down to just slewing around until I find something interesting, parking it there and occasionally moving it to keep the object within the eyepiece. Recently I've been more into wider views so things tend not to drift as fast as they do with higher magnification. I'm even considering removing the tube and putting it on a simple alt-azimuth mount such as the WO. For me, Go To is a pain. I have far more fun with my refractor on an equatorial mount than I do with this overly complicated scope.
-------------------- Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Televue Gibraltar 5
Vixen Portamount
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Tel
Postmaster
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 7764
Loc: Wallingford England
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Come on ! Take the bull by the horns and get stuck in. I promise it won't hurt !
Get it right as I know you can and you'll never want anything but a "GoTo" !
Onwards and Upwards (or is it Right and Down) ? Regards, Tel
-------------------- Truth is the cubed root of Verbosity.
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4820
Loc: Sunny California
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Tell,
I fooled around with the scope for what seemed like hours last night and finally got it to track somewhat accurately. It kept Andromeda in the center of my 32mm eyepiece for over a half an hour. With GoTo it's still does not quite center the next object. But it's much closer than before. With the cordrap issue, I followed the suggestions made and still nothing. The scope will still slew more then 360 degrees and in the opposite direction from the previous object. Last night I had it on Vega and asked it to return to Polaris. Instead of shifting to the right, the scope went all the way around in the opposite direction. Very maddening to say the least.
-------------------- Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Televue Gibraltar 5
Vixen Portamount
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Tel
Postmaster
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 7764
Loc: Wallingford England
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Hi Starwars, It's going to be difficult to explain in writing how I avoid cord wrap but I will try an abridged version. You can either take the description on board, ask more or dismiss it. Firstly though a quick word about alignment.
I don't know what you're expecting from the 'scope but my experience with the N8i is that, depending on what you have selected to "GoTo", the chosen object can either be on centre, just off centre and sometimes at the edge of the FOV of a 20mm EP. However, this, at least to me, is entirely of no consequence because if I can see it, I can centralise it.
As far as I'm concerned, the secret of good tracking is not where it lies initially but the WAY that it is centralised and, as you probably know, I wrote a CN article on the subject. Even then I can expect, depending on the EP, a slight drift of the object with time, usually a tad to the left of centre and (I can't remember specifically), slightly up when east of the meridian and down when west. Remember, you're dealing with a 'scope equipped with spur gears which are not the most accurate means for tracking celestial objects.
OK, so now to "Cord Wrap".
Firstly let me say I don't use it! In other words I don't switch it on. Also, I keep 8 X AA rechargeable batteries in base of the mount.
As best then as I can explain, here's my set up. And you can test this out in your living room. All you need to do is "kid" the 'scope by setting up a false time site.
Test therefore as follows:-
Set the "Celestron" marked leg of the tripod to point very roughly to the north (no real accuracy at all necessary) with the mount arm on the eastern side of the mount. Make sure the power cord is placed in the arm socket by routing it in an anticlockwise direction around the mount while you stand looking due south in front of the "Celestron" leg.
Now manually slew the OTA clockwise to Altair's (rough ) position while you remain facing due south.
Set up your time site and choose "Auto Two Star " to align. As your first star, choose Altair and as instructed, move to where you know it (roughly) to be (actually you should be there already). Press enter and align buttons and then choose Polaris as your second star.
The scope will then automatically go clockwise to Polaris. If the OTA angle and direction for Polaris look about right, press enter and align. You should now have a successful alignment with which to work.
Now make a "GoTo" to Vega. Motiom should be anticlockwise from Polaris. If OK, repeat with M31. Motion should still be anticlockwise. Repeat with Caph. Motion still anticlockwise.
Now to Dubhe on the other side of the meridian. Motion now should be clockwise. A long way around but avoiding cord wrap.
Now to confirm all's working. Select Polaris once again. Motion should be clockwise a few degrees. However, now reselect Caph and the OTA should retrace its steps "the long way around". In this manner although you will need to keep an eye on the cord for long distance slews (in your best interest) you should not incur cord wrap.
Having said all this, and I don't know your set up, but if it doesn't work, reroute the cord in the opposite direction (ie. clockwise round the mount).
Finally and back to those 8 X AAs, if the cord is wrapping (and bear in mind that I'm doing this for real in robot mode by now), I can reverse the cord by taking it out of the socket and replace it without losing power and thus alignment.
Incidentally, which "GoTo Approach" setting suited you best ?
Hope this helps, Tel
-------------------- Truth is the cubed root of Verbosity.
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4820
Loc: Sunny California
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Thanks for you help. I truly appreciate it. I'll try it out after I pour myself a stiff drink!
I always keep batteries in it and make sure they're not too run down. And I do end up pulling out the cord when the scope slews all the way around and again some.
As far as accuracies in GoTo mode, I expect what Celestron advertises. They certainly don't tell you it slews to the next object and then, depending on the magnification, that object might not be in the center of the eyepiece or in some cases, completely out.
I do find as far as tracking goes, I have it working slightly better than before. Last night I finally got it to track an object (Andromeda) and keep it pretty much centered for half an hour. That's good enough for me since I don't look at anything for more than a few minutes. The cheap little Orion tracking motor I have on my CR-4 is far more accurate. I've had objects remain centered for an hour. I also love the way I can take that scope and quickly slew it around by hand, then lock it down and track the selected object. I'll always prefer this method to a GoTo scope set up.
-------------------- Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Televue Gibraltar 5
Vixen Portamount
Edited by Starlighter (10/14/07 05:46 PM)
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Fred1
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 09/19/07
Posts: 1819
Loc: Somewhere in the Orion Spur
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I don't know if this will help as I've only had my 8SE for 7 weeks but I had a similar cordwrap problem last week. It went away the next time I set up. I changed my longitude and latitude settings for a new observing site and also I made sure that cordwrap was off. I was at a star party on Friday night and it worked fine. We had a complete panoramic view so I was able to work the GoTo on most of the sky very well. I don't know if this has been suggested but perhaps a recall of the Factory Settings will help.
-------------------- Fred
StarStructure LE Series 18" f/4.3 (Zambuto & Argo-Servo)
Celestron 8" SCT w/Starlight Feathertouch Microfocuser;
Explore Scientific David H. Levy f/4.8 Comet Hunter
Stellarvue SV80ST f6 Triplet APO
Tele Vue & EarthWin binoviewers
Enough Eyepieces and Accessories to put my Scopes to Good Use
Meade LX80, CG5-ASGT, Astro-Tech Voyager mounts
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4820
Loc: Sunny California
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It was suggested to me to go back to factory settings. Maybe I should do that. I can't change the longitude and latitude since it's set for where I live and I'm not traveling with it to another location that would need a different setting applied.
-------------------- Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Televue Gibraltar 5
Vixen Portamount
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Tel
Postmaster
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 7764
Loc: Wallingford England
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Hi Starlighter,
Sorry in the first instance to get your name wrong but I've also been talking to "Starwars" recently and erroneously addressed you by his title ! My apologies !
If you reroute the cord when it begins to wrap followed by bringing it back to the socket from the opposite side and you STILL get wrap, then I'm afraid can't help you any further. One way in my experience, should prevent wrap. It's a question of which.
Maybe though, having disconnecting it because of the onset of wrap, you're putting back via the SAME route rather than the opposite but only you can comment on that. All I can say is, I don't use the feature on the HC nor do I think I have any need of it.
On the tracking front, is it possible that the little motor you describe attached to your CR4, performs better not because of itself but through the likelihood that the CR4's mount is equipped with worm gearing of neglible backlash rather than spur gears ?
I have to say that I have no problems with my N8i after nearly three year's use, either with cord wrap (initially yes), GoTos (after a little alignment practice) or so far, anything else, but reading more than between the lines, you do seem very dissatisfied with your 6SE and appear really determined to get rid of it.
That of course will be for you alone to decide but from what I read, this seems likely to be your aim.
Best regards, Tel
-------------------- Truth is the cubed root of Verbosity.
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4820
Loc: Sunny California
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Well, guess what? I turned 'Cordwrap' off and now the scope no longer slews 360 degrees in the wrong direction in order to get to the next object that is only say twenty degrees to the left. It actually went the correct way. That tells me it's programed backwards. When it says it's on, in reality, it's switched off.
-------------------- Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Televue Gibraltar 5
Vixen Portamount
Edited by Starlighter (10/15/07 12:09 AM)
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b1gred
Enginerd
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 16902
Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL
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See my PM.
It is easy to misinterpret the display of the hand controller in the setup utilities.
-------------------- "Dark Skies & Great Viewing"
RandyR / W0RDR
GPS 9.25 XLT/Sky Align /FeatherTouch
TV85 w/FeatherTouch
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 8913
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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What does the term "cordwrap" mean? It's a made up term.
How about "a function preventing the cord from being wrapped up"? In that case saying "the cord wrap is on" means that the scope will prevent the cord from getting wrapped up. It will do this by keeping track of where the cord is when it moves to a new target, and this may mean taking the long way to that target.
If the cordwrap function is off the scope would not prevent the cord from getting wrapped up and would take the shortest route to the target without regard to the location of the cord.
It's all about interpretation. Could Celestron's documentation explain it better? It sure could. But it's not programmed backwards, just poorly defined.
-------------------- Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Pier mounted CGE in a POD, and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - 350Da, DSI-P, SPC900, NexImage, Mallincam
Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should
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b1gred
Enginerd
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 16902
Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL
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-------------------- "Dark Skies & Great Viewing"
RandyR / W0RDR
GPS 9.25 XLT/Sky Align /FeatherTouch
TV85 w/FeatherTouch
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TonyDralle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/17/06
Posts: 1158
Loc: Bethel Park, PA
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I concur with Mark. When with "Cordwrap" ON, the scope sometimes slews the long way, it is preventing a possibly undesirable accumulation of short slews all in the same direction. Turning it OFF prevents a long slew but leaves open the possibility for wrapping the cord. I think of Celestron's term "Cordwrap" as meaning "Cordwrap Prevention." I don't use it, either, but only because I'm willing to keep track of the cord myself and occasionally, maybe, pick up the battery pack and walk around the scope to undo encroaching wrap. - Tony
-------------------- - TonyD
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4820
Loc: Sunny California
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Now I'm more confused than ever. Basically, I just want the scope to slew the shortest distance between two points. It makes no sense wahtsoever for it to slew 360 degrees when the next ubject is a few degrees over. That if anything WILL ensure the cord gets wrapped around the legs. Now with it switched off, I don't seem to be having this problem.
It wasn't a bad night after all. As I was viewing a star cluster, all of a sudden I had a bright light travel through my 32mm eyepiece. Thinking it was a plane I quickly looked up and saw what appeared to be a meteor streaking rapidly across the night sky. That's the first one I've seen through any scope.
-------------------- Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Televue Gibraltar 5
Vixen Portamount
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TonyDralle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/17/06
Posts: 1158
Loc: Bethel Park, PA
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Quote:
Well, that depends on whether you're talking of Richmond near London or Richmond in Yorkshire !
I guess neither of you is referring to Richmond, Virginia (USA). LOL - Tony
-------------------- - TonyD
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