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richtea
sage
Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 309
Loc: UK Yorkshire
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Hi Brock
Thanks for the tip on the Bushwackers I must have missed Rich V's post stating size 6 for the 10 x e2 (probably my lazy skip reading at fault again !) I have contacted EO ref the Swift Audubons and will order sets of Bushwackers for 2 x E2 and EO version for Swift's once i have the info Your crazy picture reminded me of the band "Yes" and all my "hippy" days Its a long time since i saw the likes of Pink Floyd and Led Zep live and yet somehow concerts i have been to in the last 10 years never quite have the mystique of the "Oldies"
Still loving the 10 x E2's imho one of the best "compact" 10 x for any money they only seem to lose a tad of brightness late on but this is toward the extremes of dusk which is excellent considering the 35mm objectives Probably should have bought a pair a long time ago
Regards RichT
-------------------- 12x Canon IS MK11 Porro
10x C/Zeiss Jenoptem/Nikon SE/E11/Swift Ultralite/Hawke B/Watch WP/ Praktica WA Porro/Olympus Wide /Brunton Porro
10 x Belomo Loupe + 10/20 x Silver Geo Loupe
10 x Celestron Regal LX Roof
9x Opticron Minerva Porro
8.5x Swift Audobon FMC Porro
8x Nikon E11/Minolta Activa WPFP/Praktica WA Porros/Smith Wesson(Pentax)Roof/Bushnell Discoverer Roofs/Olympus Wide PC Porro
7x Fujinon CDPC Roof
6.5x Pentax Papilo reverse porro
Nikon ED78A/38 x WA Scope/Eyepiece
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medinabrit
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 854
Loc: medina ohio USA.
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Thanks Brock for that great thread . If only our politicians had some of your wisdom. Brian.
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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Bedford Falls, Pa.
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RichT,
Glad you're happy with the 10x35 E2. After looking through Walter's 8x30 E2, I felt the same way -- that I should have bought a pair a long time ago. However, I thought I already had the "Superior E" (8x32 SE), and that the E2 would be a step down in optical quality. Now that I've tried an excellent sample, I actually like the 8x30 E2 better than my SE.
Since the music a person listens to growing up is often the same genre he or she prefers in later years, what I am about to say may be coming from a biased position, however, I believe the reason why they call it "Classic Rock" is that this period in popular music represents some of the best if not THE best work of its genre. The fact that "Stairway to Heaven" rather than the latest alternative rock or rap song by the most popular group/artist today is the most requested song on radio speaks to Classic Rock's lasting appeal.
It's also the reason why my guitar pickin' neighbor who is half my age, plays Jimmy Page guitar licks, knows the words to Beatle songs, and became interested in playing guitar. Even my near octogenarian dad likes the Stones and plays some of their songs on his guitar!
I have a hard time imagining my friend's daughter, who is now 21, listening to Puff Daddy when she's 51, but who knows?
Brian,
Thanks for that most generous compliment. On other forums, I probably would have been flame broiled for speaking so freely and getting off topic, so I thank you and others who posted to this thread for your contributions and for tolerating and even at times enjoying my humorous and philosophical meanderings.
-------------------- Press: Are you a mod or a rocker?
Ringo: I'm a mocker
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< so I thank you and others who posted to this thread for your contributions and for tolerating and even at times enjoying my humorous and philosophical meanderings. >
Brock ,
Your writing is so seamless that I hadn't even realised you had meandered from the main topic ! :-)
I too have difficulty imagining " today's under 21s " sitting in an " over 60s club " in fifty years time , enjoying nostalgic 300 word per minute renditions of Puff Daddy's raps in between bouts of bingo and heated debates over whether or not the E2 was as good as the SE .
Regards , Kenny
--------------------
Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Pinewood
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 1065
Loc: 40.77638º N 73.982652 W
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The initiator of this thread has encouraged me to write about the sharpness of my new glass the Zeiss 8x32 FL. Lacking proper analytical tools and patience, I did a simple comparison of the 8x32 FL and the Leica 8x32 BN, binoculars of he same class. I would point out that the Zeiss has a slighter wider FOV. Looking at reeds on a lake's shore, from about 80 meters, I found that the Zeiss held reasonable sharpness across a slightly greater usable field of view and the edges had not deteriorated as much as in the Leica. An even more cursory comparison, at home, among the two binoculars and a Zeiss 8x30 Classic seemed to show that the Classic had a wider sharp on-axis field than the FL, but it deteriorated more than the FL at the edges. I am going to conclude that the FL may have the best design compromise of the three, at least for open areas. Additionally, it color rendition and its reduced lateral CA give it an even broader appeal.
Happy observing, Arthur
-------------------- Bread is not enough. We demand circuses!
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cota_scope
sage
Reged: 05/16/04
Posts: 357
Loc: sioux city ia
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good choice brock. my 2 favorites are the 8x30E2 and my 10x35E2s for daytime viewing, and surprise i still have not sold ether of them, so that's saying something :-) regards john
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johnirvine
member
Reged: 02/27/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Iowa
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OK, Brock. I've asked you this question in a couple of emails... how in the H E double hockey sticks do you get bushwackers on the 8x30 E2? They are fantastic (I actually have a back up pair)on the 10x35... but those stubby barrels on the 8x30?!? I am not going to believe it until I see a pic.
Richtea, I have found the 8x30 to be a great "airshow bin" better than the 10x35 just because everything is moving... the depth of field and fov are better with the 8x30 for this sort of thing. Now where the 10x35s really shine for me is watching airliners, turkey vultures and experimental airplanes (local airport)as I sit in my front yard making sure my kids don't get run over while riding their assorted vehicles (by the way anybody in their thirties with young children should know that the 'green machine' has been reintroduced in a new and improved model).
If I were an unfortunate soul in Dante's Inferno my torture would have been to be stuck wearing unremovable headphones blaring 'Stairway to Heaven'... IMHO music didn't start to get good until the Clash came along (excepting the Beatles of course).
John
-------------------- There wolf. There castle.
Nikon E2 8x30, 10x35; Zeiss Classic 7x42; Swift Ultralite 9x63; Fuji 7x50 FMT-SX
Edited by johnirvine (03/28/07 11:18 AM)
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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Bedford Falls, Pa.
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John,
Good to hear from you again. Yes, the fact that the E2s are your favorite daytime bins does speak volumes since you've tried more bins than anyone I know!
I also learned from you that sample variation runs rampart in binoculars, from the excellent, the good, the bad, and the ugly. So you must have two excellent sample E2s.
I may try to find an 8x30 E2 par excellence like Walter's. If I can't, I'll just have to wait until the reading of his will. :-)
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ngc6475
Fearless Spectator
Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 5024
Loc: 38°21'N 120°55'W
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"If I can't, I'll just have to wait until the reading of his will. :-)"
I've detected rat poison in my Metamucil again...things could be moving quicker than I thought!
-------------------- Walter
"There are nights when the wolves are silent and only the moon howls."
-George Carlin
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richtea
sage
Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 309
Loc: UK Yorkshire
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Hi John
Yes i take your point re the 8 x 30 e2's for catching fast moving aircraft at shows in fact last year at a major UK air show in Lincoln i used the 8 x and had a great day Most of the time was spent "fending off" pals asking to borrow my bins as there own were well off the mark The reason i was so full of praise for the 10 x E2 is i think partially to do with something i will call "pre-conditioned viewing" By this i mean my first ever great views at "airshows" where with a wide angled 10 x Zeiss binocular I think my eyes saw a great similarity in view when i looked through the 10 x e2 and sub conciously sent me back to the first "high impact image" i saw with good quality optics Basically the little E2 offers a nice wide view with goodish edges The fact it has only a little curvature to my eyes and is very compact for a 10 x is rather endearing I do agree that watching "jumbo's" and bigger airliners coming in is also where the E2 will excel There is just something special watching these "huge" aircraft seemingly suspended in the air as they approach the runway ! Oops i've gone all anorak again
Regards RichT
-------------------- 12x Canon IS MK11 Porro
10x C/Zeiss Jenoptem/Nikon SE/E11/Swift Ultralite/Hawke B/Watch WP/ Praktica WA Porro/Olympus Wide /Brunton Porro
10 x Belomo Loupe + 10/20 x Silver Geo Loupe
10 x Celestron Regal LX Roof
9x Opticron Minerva Porro
8.5x Swift Audobon FMC Porro
8x Nikon E11/Minolta Activa WPFP/Praktica WA Porros/Smith Wesson(Pentax)Roof/Bushnell Discoverer Roofs/Olympus Wide PC Porro
7x Fujinon CDPC Roof
6.5x Pentax Papilo reverse porro
Nikon ED78A/38 x WA Scope/Eyepiece
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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Bedford Falls, Pa.
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Quote:
OK, Brock. I've asked you this question in a couple of emails... how in the H E double hockey sticks do you get bushwackers on the 8x30 E2? They are fantastic (I actually have a back up pair)on the 10x35... but those stubby barrels on the 8x30?!? I am not going to believe it until I see a pic....
If I were an unfortunate soul in Dante's Inferno my torture would have been to be stuck wearing unremovable headphones blaring 'Stairway to Heaven'... IMHO music didn't start to get good until the Clash came along (excepting the Beatles of course).
John
John,
The #5 Bushies stick to the stubs like a horse fly sticks to a cow pie. I will post a photo ASAP. I was supposed to get together today with Steve M. to take photos of my bins, but his slipped disc slipped again, and the union doctor put him on R & R for the rest of the week. I keep telling him that he's getting too old to lift the end of a bus with one hand while changing the tire with the other, and to use a jack like the rest of us mortals, but being a black belt karate champion, he has a tendency to become overconfident of his physical prowess. Hope Amalia's reading this.... :-)
You've reinforced both axioms I recently posted about music nostalgia.
#1 that as music lovers grow older they cling to the popular music of their teenaged years.
#2 that generations other than Baby Boomers -- even Gen X head banger Baby Busters -- like at least SOME Classic Rock, and everybody loves the Beatles.
Commentary: Being the most requested song on the radio, "Stairway to Heaven" may have worn out its grove by overexposure, however, members of the Ramones, the Sex Pistols, Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Clash, Joy Division, The Cure, The Slits, etc. grew up listening to Led Zeppelin, the Stones, Vanilla Fudge, early Kinks, and other hard edged Classic Rock groups and were also influenced by the protest movements of the 60s, ipso facto, there would be no punk rock w/out Classic Rock, just as their would be no alternative rock w/out punk.
Similarly, there would be no Classic Rock w/out the blues, rockabilly, Jazz rhythm combos, Texas Swing, and other influences including Les Paul, who invented the solid body electric guitar and pioneered the technique of multitrack recording.
My own tuppence is that punk rock was a reactionary movement against the flowery, flacid pop and disco muzak of the era and the androgenous dress and posturing of former hard rockers like a Ziggy transformed Bowie and the prancing Jagger, who began to wear women's make-up and girl's dresses. On its most basic level, punk represents an attempt to reclaim the raw s-exual masculinity of early rockers such as Elvis Presley. Although many punk rockers wore eyeliner, which would seem contradictory to my thesis, if you look at early Elvis, his eyes are very dark with long lashes, and it LOOKS as if he has eyeliner on. Rather than being effeminate, the eyeliner is to exaggerate the natural darkness of most men's eyes whereas women apply light colored shades of eye make-up to their uppper eyelids to soften their image (except, of course, female punk rockers).
I now add axiom #3: some music from a generation NOT related to yours could be halacious to listen to.
In my personal hell, Clash, the Sex Pistols, and Courtney Love are playing 24/7. :-)
I also wonder what the cultural influence is on a generation that grew listening to lyrics such as:
"God save the Queen/The Fascist regime/There's no future in England's dreaming/No future for you."
as compared to:
Love, Love, Love.
Love, Love, Love.
Love, Love, Love.
There's nothing you can do that can't be done.
Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.
Nothing you can say but you can learn how to play the game.
It's easy.
Nothing you can make that can't be made.
No one you can save that can't be saved.
Nothing you can do but you can learn how to be you in time.
It's easy.
All you need is love.
All you need is love.
All you need is love, love.
Love is all you need.
In case you got this far and was wondering about the relevance of all this music talk to the topic of the thread, it is that wide field binoculars with a good sweet spot are an ideal choice for concerts, particularly Pink Floyd concerts where there's a lot happening on stage at the same time. :-)
-- brocknroller
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Pinewood
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/07/04
Posts: 1065
Loc: 40.77638º N 73.982652 W
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Quote:
In case you got this far and was wondering about the relevance of all this music talk to the topic of the thread, it is that wide field binoculars with a good sweet spot are an ideal choice for concerts, particularly Pink Floyd concerts where there's a lot happening on stage at the same time. :-)
-- brocknroller
Brock,
Indeed! That is where and when a Zeiss 8x30 Classic may fit the occasion.
Happy observing, Arthur
-------------------- Bread is not enough. We demand circuses!
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richtea
sage
Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 309
Loc: UK Yorkshire
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Hi Brock
Yes its true that music derives its own future to some extent and what went around comes back around Meanwhile whilst i dont wish to offend anyone my own personal "hell" would be all the "soft coast rock" middle of the road stuff and due no doubt to age pretty much all of the "manufactured mania" bands and artists recently "developed" Bands/artists i do love include Beatles, Stones, Jam, Oasis,Who Bowie (early) Pink Floyd, Led Zep,REM,Emy Lou Harris,Joni Mitchell and many other hippy happies blah blah blah !!
PS I'm still struggling to find out which size EO tethered objective caps fit 804 FMC Swift Audubon Even Corey from EO is not sure so i guess its down to anyone here knowing or a good old fashioned tape measure!!
A phrase not music related but from the same ethos i heard uttered in "coorporate lingo" recently by management was "If you cant change the people change the people" For me this seemed to sum up modern disposable thinking
Regards RichT
-------------------- 12x Canon IS MK11 Porro
10x C/Zeiss Jenoptem/Nikon SE/E11/Swift Ultralite/Hawke B/Watch WP/ Praktica WA Porro/Olympus Wide /Brunton Porro
10 x Belomo Loupe + 10/20 x Silver Geo Loupe
10 x Celestron Regal LX Roof
9x Opticron Minerva Porro
8.5x Swift Audobon FMC Porro
8x Nikon E11/Minolta Activa WPFP/Praktica WA Porros/Smith Wesson(Pentax)Roof/Bushnell Discoverer Roofs/Olympus Wide PC Porro
7x Fujinon CDPC Roof
6.5x Pentax Papilo reverse porro
Nikon ED78A/38 x WA Scope/Eyepiece
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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Bedford Falls, Pa.
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RichT,
I was just "Busting" John I.'s chops about the punk rock h'ell except for Courtney Love, HER I meant for real, though I find her oddly attractive (post-plastic surgery) in a heroin chic sort of way.
But now that you mentioned it, 24/7 of the "manufactured mania" boy bands would be "pretty" halacious Circle of H-ell.
What I did like was the more listenable punk influenced New Wave music such as Joe Jackson in his "Look Sharp" days. I wish that trend lasted longer. Jackson then seriously studied jazz for a few years and came back reincarnated as a jazz composer. I liked that music too. But then he moved into a strange amalgam of pop and opera on "Heaven and H-ell" that I couldn't fathom.
However, the STRANGEST team up since Bing Crosby and David Bowie on "Little Drummer Boy" was Joe Jackson and William Shatner on "Has Been." Beam me up, Scotty! :-)
Too iried to realtes thjs to mbinocalrs got to getsto cslep before the freakiin dlgs wake me up interm orning.
Brock Zombie
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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Bedford Falls, Pa.
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RichT,
I measured the OD of the Swift objective housings: 2 1/4 inches or 57.15mm. That explains why the objective caps from the 10x50 Swift Seahawk fit the Audubon, it's a bit pudgy like Bridget Jones.
Brock
You can't always get the objective covers you want
You can't always get the objective covers you want
You can't always get the objective covers you want
But if you try sometimes, well you just might find
You get what objective covers you need
Ooh baby, yeah, ooh
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johnirvine
member
Reged: 02/27/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Iowa
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RichT and Brock,
Well, we all have to agree that ABBA would be playing in continuous loops for us in purgatory? Maybe even "Stray Cat Strut" by Taco... I'm getting a headache just thinking about it...
Brock, you know there are those things that produce a ultrasonic blast of torture sound to dogs when they bark... strategically placing one in your yard might do the trick.
RichT, Swarovski makes some great captive lens cap dealies. I think B&H Photo actually lists the outer diameters of bins they will work on for some of them. I have a pair on my classics, and they both look sharp and work well.
John
-------------------- There wolf. There castle.
Nikon E2 8x30, 10x35; Zeiss Classic 7x42; Swift Ultralite 9x63; Fuji 7x50 FMT-SX
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richtea
sage
Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 309
Loc: UK Yorkshire
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Hi John and Brock
Well Elkcub on the Bird Forum has answered the 804 caps question and he is a Swift fanatic so sounds promising Actually John i looked and Swaro do have quite a good range of objective thingies so thanks for that Brock your measurements confirm Elkcub's advice so grateful for the double xpert info
As for Abba well though they are far from my favourites i watched a TV documentary on this group some time back and practically everyone in the industry including some notable artists themselves highly praised their pop "formula" song writing abilities and performance live Forget which song it was but someone described it as "the perfect pop song" I guess in the end it comes down to longevity of songs and how often they re-emerge Love em or hate em many Abba songs are covered and used in the ever popular "talent idol" contests Apparently both girls in the band had very high quality voices (Its muted that Blonde Agnetha the Abba vocal lead could have sung Opera !!) This probably explains why many artists struggle with the vocal range and sound when attempting covers
One voice i personally never tire of is Karen Carpenter I have heard it said on more than one occassion her voice was "tonally perfect" Now i know some Carpenters songs may well be MOR stuff ! but i reckon this was one lady who could "sing the phonebook" and make it sound great when she was around
Regards RichT
-------------------- 12x Canon IS MK11 Porro
10x C/Zeiss Jenoptem/Nikon SE/E11/Swift Ultralite/Hawke B/Watch WP/ Praktica WA Porro/Olympus Wide /Brunton Porro
10 x Belomo Loupe + 10/20 x Silver Geo Loupe
10 x Celestron Regal LX Roof
9x Opticron Minerva Porro
8.5x Swift Audobon FMC Porro
8x Nikon E11/Minolta Activa WPFP/Praktica WA Porros/Smith Wesson(Pentax)Roof/Bushnell Discoverer Roofs/Olympus Wide PC Porro
7x Fujinon CDPC Roof
6.5x Pentax Papilo reverse porro
Nikon ED78A/38 x WA Scope/Eyepiece
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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Bedford Falls, Pa.
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RichT,
Even though I'm not a metalhead like Pat Boone (did you ever see him dressed up like a heavy metal rocker? a real riot, Alice), I have to concur about Karen Carpenter's voice, smooth as a baby's bottom, even if the songs themselves were a bit saccharin.
Have you ever written a comparison of the 10x35 E2 and 10x42 SE? I've used both, but never compared the two. For what applications do you use each bin?
John,
Thanks for the advice about the ultrasonic machines. I'll have to look into them and their legality in my state. "Nuisance noise" laws apply before 7 a.m., so it may not even be necessary. I also found out that the barking was not from my next door neighbor's dog, but from another dog in the back.
Brock
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richtea
sage
Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 309
Loc: UK Yorkshire
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Hi Brock
The comparison for me personally between the 10 x 42 SE and 10 x 35 E2 is rather an interesting quandry
The SE has one of the "purest" views i have ever seen through a binocular but it is slightly tainted imho by fov and eye placement I have indeed been comparing the two very recently in mainly daylight and early evening conditions
I find the little E2's actually nearly as bright in day time use as the SE and rather surprisingly only very slightly fading as the light draws in badly Image wise i think the edge performance of the E2 gives way a little to the SE and also i believe the SE keeps straight lines "a bit straighter" at the field edge Ergonomically the E2 doesnt seem quite as well covered but feels very easy to me to hold ( i will use this 10 x E2 a lot) The SE on the other hand does have a lovely balance for a 10 x and the protein rubber type covering will i think win users over and be more resilient under duress
Fov is really a win for the E2 and so is ease of view its one of those bins you can seem to pick up, point and view despite the small exit pupil
The SE does have one continuing aspect though and its simply what i can best describe as "vividity" now there's a new word ! Ironically i find the SE to have its best "vividity" when close in The colour purity,contrast and resoloution to a fine degree is actually the best i have witnessed to date BUT its not above the E2 by a big margin (maybe 3-4% ?) I personally suffer eye placement nasties on occassion with my SE but have learnt to slightly move the cups away from my brow Eye relief is another spanner in the works with these models in so much as i find the E2 fine but know some will prefer the longer eye relief of the SE (which is at least part of the eye placement issue i think for me )
As for glare and flare again the SE edges the contest as the E2 can show a few stray reflections at the eyepieces but again its a contest won only by a small margin
I hasten to add my opinions are far from technically bound rather more a perception Ultimately in choosing between these i would say based on pure relaxed view and cost factors the E2 would be the winner providing the user is not swamp bound and watches aircraft as opposed to jumping out of them !!
However and there's always a however with optics For that extra ounce or two and a pure blazing flat field view when say birdwatching i dont think it gets much better than the SE image I once said something about the SE image along the lines of the "its a pure image but almost forces the viewer to work their eyes harder" I guess i knew what i meant i still hold that opinion today ! So for me Brock to use a footballing analogy its a "funny old game" when comparing these two binoculars which are both without doubt right up there with much higher cost hitters !! Its the old old story if only there was an E2 with the SE's slight better image impact and with more weather/useage resillience
Regards RichT
-------------------- 12x Canon IS MK11 Porro
10x C/Zeiss Jenoptem/Nikon SE/E11/Swift Ultralite/Hawke B/Watch WP/ Praktica WA Porro/Olympus Wide /Brunton Porro
10 x Belomo Loupe + 10/20 x Silver Geo Loupe
10 x Celestron Regal LX Roof
9x Opticron Minerva Porro
8.5x Swift Audobon FMC Porro
8x Nikon E11/Minolta Activa WPFP/Praktica WA Porros/Smith Wesson(Pentax)Roof/Bushnell Discoverer Roofs/Olympus Wide PC Porro
7x Fujinon CDPC Roof
6.5x Pentax Papilo reverse porro
Nikon ED78A/38 x WA Scope/Eyepiece
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mooreorless
Just worried
Reged: 07/05/05
Posts: 2248
Loc: Cornpropst Mills,Huntingdon,Pa
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Rich T says "I personally suffer eye placement nasties on occassion with my SE but have learnt to slightly move the cups away from my brow"
Rich,by this do you mean you keep the top part of the eyecup in contact with your brow and move the bottom or just move the whole binocular away from your face? I touch the top part and move the bottom away and this helps me,also do the same for my Swarovski 7x30SLC and Leupold 6x30 Yosemite Sam.This is without wearing glasses of course.
Regards,Steve
-------------------- Regards,Steve M
Edited by mooreorless (03/30/07 08:48 PM)
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