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chmee
super member
Reged: 05/11/05
Posts: 158
Loc: Takoma Park, MD
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At the beginning of August I'll be driving from MD to Utah to spend a week w/ friends. I'd like to take my 16" dob and catch some water-vapor-free photons, but I'm having problems finding any specific information on where to go.
Any clues? I'll be spending most of the week outside Moab, so near there would be best. However, I'll have a car, and once you've already driven 2000 miles, a few more wouldn't hurt....
Thanks,
pete
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16" dob
ED80sf
15x50 IS binocs
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Richard B. Drumm
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 1486
Loc: Albemarle Co. Virginia
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A quick look at GoogleMaps shows Arches National Park just north of Moab and Dead Horse Point State Park to the West, and H U G E Canyonlands National Park just SW of that. Perhaps you could do some outreach astronomy in conjuction with the park rangers?
There's also this site:
Perpetual Images
The guy's name is Frank L. Mendonca and he has phone # and email address there. He looks to be "one of us" so he'd probably welcome you with open arms!
That'd be a good starting place. He'd know about local astronomy clubs, observing sites etc.
Rich
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AKA Richard Drumm The Astronomy Bum
Orion Atlas 10 (10" Newt on an equatorial mount)
Celestron 15x70 SkyMaster Binocs
Coronado Ha PST
President, Charlottesville Astronomical Society
IOTA member
38° 10' 57"N, 78° 23' 09"W
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miniventures
Something Else
Reged: 09/13/03
Posts: 11259
Loc: Powell Butte, Central Oregon
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Pete, the area around Moab is HUGE! There are miles and miles of country available. I would contact the Moab Chamber of Commerce or perhaps the National Park Service for specific advice. Also, Richard's contact would be great as well---nothing better than a local to help you find the right place to view. And besides, your scope is biggr than his 
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LarryC
Volunteer
http://www.sunrivernaturecenter.org
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snorkler
Aperture Aficionado
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 10041
Loc: Bay Area, California
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Pete,
As Larry says, that's a huge area with almost unlimited access to dark skies. Most of it outside of Canyonlands and Arches is BLM property. So just find a lightly traveled paved road, pull off into the dirt where any stray headlights won't bother you (the inside of a corner is good), and you'll be fine. If you want the safety of other people, you might want to set up in a campground or near some rock-hunters. If you like solitude, anywhere out of sight in the darkness is fine. You can easily drive a car over the slickrock out of sight of any road. Just avoid the sand.
If you're interested in doing outreach, I can get you in contact with the astronomy volunteer coordinator at Bryce Canyon National Park. Angie was looking for people to set up programs in nearby National Parks, which may include Arches, Canyonlands, Capital Reef, and others. It would probably require a commitment of a couple of weeks, but maybe not. They might be happy to have just one Friday or Saturday night program in a campground. You could give a constellation tour with peeks through your scope at some DSOs and star clusters.
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I'm not the lowest of the low, but I am the slowest of the slow. '06 Scion xB. 49.6 mpg avg over 38,000 miles. 177% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
Edited by snorkler (05/05/07 01:03 PM)
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square_peg
Postmaster
Reged: 03/26/04
Posts: 36712
Loc: Maple Valley, WA
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Here's the dark sky map for Moab. Go 15 miles in any direction and it's dark!!
http://www.cleardarksky.com/lp/MoabObUTlp.html?Mn=astronomy
Here are some clubs in Utah.
Astro clubs in Utah
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Tom (Pegster)
DSH-8 (GSO Dob)
15x70 Oberwerks
ED80/SVP
WO 66P
Sears Discoverer EQ 60/900
8x42 Regals
History is Philosophy teaching by examples.
Thucydides
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Spaced
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/01/05
Posts: 3608
Loc: Tacoma, Washington, USA
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Pete,
I'm headed that direction in a week, and I've been looking at the GoogleEarth Dark Sky overlay (here.) I think it's more sensitive to LP than the excellent darksky maps Pegster referred you to. It shows Canyonlands NP and Capitol Reef NP in darker zones than Arches NP, and of the bunch Capitol Reef is the most isolated from light sources.
As for finding the exact spot to set up, I'm not worried about it.
Rattlesnakes are a present, but lowrisk fact. Although they will likely "see" your heat signature, it's good practice to make a little noise when you're moving around at night, so snakes know you're there. They'll get away from you unless given no choice.
One other thing, I've been looking at Natl. Park and Utah state park campground info on the web. The *only* campground I've found that appears to have showers available is Goblin Valley State Park. It is within easy reach of Moab and in a very dark sky area. I don't know about the horizons, but as I said, I'm not worried about finding a place to view.
Have *lots* of fun! 
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snorkler
Aperture Aficionado
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 10041
Loc: Bay Area, California
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Just a comment that snakes don't have ears, so they can't hear you. But they can see you and feel the vibrations of your footsteps, and as you said, pit vipers can see your heat signature.
If you want to drive down to the Green or Colorado Rivers, there's plenty of water, but some of the access roads require 4WD, and your horizons are pretty poor from the bottoms of the canyons.
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I'm not the lowest of the low, but I am the slowest of the slow. '06 Scion xB. 49.6 mpg avg over 38,000 miles. 177% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
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chmee
super member
Reged: 05/11/05
Posts: 158
Loc: Takoma Park, MD
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The dark sky overlay is great stuff. Clearly taking the scope is the right thing to do, despite the need to drive 4k+ miles rather than hopping on a plane. Just for fun, enter zip code 20912 and look at the light pollution we have to deal with in my area.
I still am a *bit* concerned about finding a place to set up. I'm from the east, the idea of just picking a lonely road and setting up off on the side is a bit scary. I guess the suburban gangs we worry about near DC aren't a concern.....
Parking lots at national park presumably have lights.
In any case, I'll be out there for at least a week, so I can spend some time finding the right place.
If anyone has some *specific* experience observing in this area, I'd still love to hear it. Spaced, please post about your experience when you get back.
Thanks,
pete
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16" dob
ED80sf
15x50 IS binocs
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Zebra24601
Postmaster
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 16397
Loc: San Gabriel Valley, CA 91770
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I'm one hundred percent sure that not all of the parking lots in Arches and Canyonlands have lights. Not sure if the park rangers will let you set up there, however. Besides which, you'd have to deal with getting blinded by the occasional car driving by.
The West is very different from the East. Most of the open space in the West is federal land (BLM, USFS, NPS, etc). Most BLM land (which is most of the land around Moab, except for the NPS and state parks in the area), you're free to set up your telescope and even camp. Most USFS and NPS day use areas that I've come across, they'll also let you set up your telescope. But they will specify that you're not allowed to "camp" there overnight.
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Zebra24601
Meade 8" SCT w/UHTC * Celestron 100ED * Celestron C11 * Celestron Firstscope 80EQ
Coronado 60mm Solar Max II * Meade LXD55 mount * Orion Sirius goto mount
Bushnell Voyager 4.5" Compact Reflector * Barska 15x70 binoculars * Galileoscope
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Spaced
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/01/05
Posts: 3608
Loc: Tacoma, Washington, USA
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Quote:
The dark sky overlay is great stuff.
Couldn't agree more. It just fascinates me, comparing the LP in places I'm familiar with. I especially like the zoom that you get with Google Earth that you don't get with the standard LP maps. I've always had a hard time getting oriented with the LP maps.
Quote:
the idea of just picking a lonely road and setting up off on the side is a bit scary.
The "lonely" part is what makes it worth visiting! 
So here's one specific place: I just got off the phone with my #1 daughter, who volunteered for a couple of months at Natural Bridges Natl. Monument late last summer (or early fall?) She says there's a 9 mi. paved road loop, only road in the place. In the middle of it is a parking lot that she says is on elevated terrain, no lights. She said she scoped that lot out as a perfect place to set up, and in fact I believe she did some bino observing from there.
But seriously, the roads in SE Utah are hundreds of miles wide open, uninhabited country. Your problem won't be finding a place, it'll be choosing from a wealth of options.
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Mike
"Once in a while you can be shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right"
- Robt. Hunter
_____________________________
Webster 14.5" f/4.5 "Sugaree"
Megrez II 80 ED Triplet APO "Punk"
Siebert Black Night BVs
8 X 42 Celestron Regals
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chmee
super member
Reged: 05/11/05
Posts: 158
Loc: Takoma Park, MD
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Just received this back from the park people at Arches!
I think people out west are just nicer than those back east....
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Hello-
Thank you for your inquiry. You can set-up your scope wherever you like as
long as you are not blocking a trail, stepping off trail onto the
biological soil crust or in the way of traffic. Good places may be the
Balanced Rock picnic area, the Panorama Point parking area or Sand Dune
Arch trailhead/trail. These places should be relatively quiet at night, are
areas you can drive to easily and set-up your scope without having to carry
it too far. Just be careful if you are in a parking area to stay away from
any traffic hazards (probably set-up just aside the paved areas where there
is gravel).
Also, it would be a good idea to let us know when you will be in the park,
so the law enforcement ranger on duty will know what you are up to! You can
let us know via email or check in at the visitor center. They will probably
just need your vehicle description and license plate.
Let us know if you have any further questions. We hope you enjoy your visit
and the stars!!
Sincerely-
Sharon
ARCHINFO
Arches National Park
keleher@cs.umd.ed
u To: archinfo@nps.gov
cc:
05/08/2007 01:53 Subject: From NPS.gov: Setting up a telescope in Arches
PM AST
Email submitted from: /arch/contacts.htm
I will be staying in Moab for a week in August, and am trying to find
places that I can set up my scope at night to observe.
What is your policy on this?
Can I set up in parking lots? Can I walk away from the parking lots to get
away from stray light?
Thanks, Pete Keleher
Edited by chmee (05/10/07 07:26 PM)
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Spaced
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/01/05
Posts: 3608
Loc: Tacoma, Washington, USA
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Pete,
Leaving in the morning! I'll give you some sort of report in a week +.
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Mike
"Once in a while you can be shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right"
- Robt. Hunter
_____________________________
Webster 14.5" f/4.5 "Sugaree"
Megrez II 80 ED Triplet APO "Punk"
Siebert Black Night BVs
8 X 42 Celestron Regals
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snorkler
Aperture Aficionado
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 10041
Loc: Bay Area, California
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I forgot to mention the first week in August is monsoon season! You can expect torrential downpours every afternoon about 3 p.m. Some of the dirt roads quickly become impassible when they're wet.
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I'm not the lowest of the low, but I am the slowest of the slow. '06 Scion xB. 49.6 mpg avg over 38,000 miles. 177% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
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Spaced
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/01/05
Posts: 3608
Loc: Tacoma, Washington, USA
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Well, Pete, here's my promised report, but it will be brief.
Due to a deliberately loose itinerary coupled with a multitude of geological distractions, we never did get to the natl. parks around Moab, although we were in the town twice. So I can't point you to specific places there.
We stayed at the campground at Goblin Valley St. Park (about 1 1/2 hrs. outside Moab) for 3 nights. I can recommend the campground as a place to stay for a number of reasons, most prominent of which is, as I said in an earlier post, showers. (And they're free! With real hot water & everything!)
The Goblin Valley campground is an excellent location for viewing. No trees, of course. No street lights. While some camps emitted light from Coleman lanterns or the like, it's an easy matter to move your gear 100 yds. north on or beside the paved road beside the campground. There was zero traffic on the road after dark. A cliff to the west restricts that horizon, but it is wide open to the north and east, all the way around to the south, where a low cliff in the middle distance cuts off a bit of the horizon; to the south I could see all of Sagittarius and almost all of Scorpio. If you go there I recommend reservations, which can be made on line.
My other stay (two nights) was at Natural Bridges Natl. Monument, about 2 1/2 hrs. south of Moab. The campground there is in a juniper forest, so it's not a good viewing location. However, there are some stunning locations along the 9 mi. loop road, part of which goes by the campground. I don't think there is a single street light in all of Natural Bridges.
Both Goblin Valley and Natl. Bridges are far removed from light pollution. If the weather cooperates you'll see the darkest skies of your life. Unfortunately, while we had decent weather, thin, high clouds formed most afternoons, taking hours to dissipate. There was a bit too much moisture in the area to really get the perfect skies. I hope you have better luck!
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Mike
"Once in a while you can be shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right"
- Robt. Hunter
_____________________________
Webster 14.5" f/4.5 "Sugaree"
Megrez II 80 ED Triplet APO "Punk"
Siebert Black Night BVs
8 X 42 Celestron Regals
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chmee
super member
Reged: 05/11/05
Posts: 158
Loc: Takoma Park, MD
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Quote:
I forgot to mention the first week in August is monsoon season! You can expect torrential downpours every afternoon about 3 p.m. Some of the dirt roads quickly become impassible when they're wet.
Arg! Does it clear up later?
pete
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16" dob
ED80sf
15x50 IS binocs
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chmee
super member
Reged: 05/11/05
Posts: 158
Loc: Takoma Park, MD
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Thanks for the report, Mike. I'm sorry you ran into the clouds. The wispy ones are the worst, better to just fog in and not make you think you have a chance.
I'll just take the big scope and see what happens.
pete
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16" dob
ED80sf
15x50 IS binocs
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Spaced
Post Laureate
Reged: 03/01/05
Posts: 3608
Loc: Tacoma, Washington, USA
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Pete, save your sympathy for someone who needs it more than I. Maybe I made it sound worse than it really was.
Early evening was usually poor to middlin', but the middle of the night was usually pretty good, just not as great as is possible. Almost every night I'd slip out of bed, pull on something warm (it was probably 50 - 60 deg. and windless), and go for a walk with my dog. I wouldn't look at the clock, but it was somewhere between 2 & 4 AM. By then there was no trace of clouds and the Milky Way would be bright -- just not the 3 dimensional knotted structure you see on the rare perfect nights. For example, M-13 (or M-31, I always get it mixed up: the great cluster in Hercules) was naked eye; the Lagoon was a nice binoc. object, No. Amer. Neb. & Pelican were binoc visible, but not as distinct as I've seen.
Does the purpose of your trip require you to stay in lodgings in Moab? If you can possibly talk your friends into it, go camping, so you just have to step out the door & 10 steps to your scope.
You're in for a real treat. Don't be afraid to tell us how it went!
One other thing: The shortest route to Utah is south of North Dakota, but if you think you might go that way and want a suggestion on where you might stay, let me know. My Aunt and Uncle run a B & B in a small town in southwestern N.D. They have a farm outside town and could set you up with a dynamite viewing location there. The skies are *extremely* dark at the farm.
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Mike
"Once in a while you can be shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right"
- Robt. Hunter
_____________________________
Webster 14.5" f/4.5 "Sugaree"
Megrez II 80 ED Triplet APO "Punk"
Siebert Black Night BVs
8 X 42 Celestron Regals
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chmee
super member
Reged: 05/11/05
Posts: 158
Loc: Takoma Park, MD
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I'm finally on my way back from Utah. During our time in Moab, I twice drove over to Arches National Park and set up at Panarama Point. Weather, and/or partying interfered the other nights. The first night was windy, but the second night was perfect.
Bottom line, it was absolutely gorgeous. I didn't try to calibrate the limiting magnitude exactly, but it was at least 6.0 judging from the little dipper, and could easily have been 7.0. There were two tiny light domes, both very faint. As I said, the first night was windy, and the second night I had ~15 friends (including small kids), so I unfortunately didn't have quite as much time as I would have liked. That being said...
For the friends, I looked at all the usual favorites, M57, M13, Triffid, and then M51. Typically, M13 was the big favorite. I convinced myself I could see M57's central star, though I wouldn't swear to it.
M51 was what I was there for. My scope is a 16", but whether because of insufficient light baffling, or more likely because of the nasty conditions under which I observe outside of D.C., I've never been able to see more than a hint of swirling. Here, I saw quite definate swirling w/ direct vision, and w/ the aid of averted vision was able to map out the spiraling of the two arms in detail, including dark space etc. The bridge between the two was suggested, but not w/ direct sight.
M101 was not as clear, but definite spiral swirling was seen.
Finally, I looked at M31 w/ my 40mm. Usually, this is scarcely more interesting w/ a scope than w/ my 15x50 IS binocs, but this time was the exception. I could see faint whispers of gas out to the edge of the 1.5 degree FOV, w/ one definite gap on the M110 side, and one other 90 degrees off.
I think I can still do more to baffle the scope (and I didn't use the shroud, though this shouldn't have made much of a difference because it was so dark), but this was by far the best view of any of these galaxies that I've seen. Most of my viewing is within an hour or so of DC, but I've also spent a few nights at Spruce Knob, supposedly the darkest site on the east coast, and this was better. Caveat: in my two years at the AHSP at Spruce Knob, weather intefered at least somewhat every single night. Nonetheless, I think Arches beats it easily.
Those of you who live out this way, well, I'm very jealous.
pete
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16" dob
ED80sf
15x50 IS binocs
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edwincjones
Close Enough
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 7980
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I came on this thread a little late, but for a good compromise with safety/convenience-go to any of the parks and just ask the rangers where they would recommend setting up for dark skies and few disruptions.
Hovenweep has the darkest skies that I have ever seen.
edj
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gilligan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/02/08
Posts: 2444
Loc: Panama City Beach, FL
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if this thread is still alive, I will be at Moab from 3-08 until 11-08, PM me for further info,, By april i should have some great spots picked out.
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My goal in life, Is to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am!
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