Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Every so often, this first post in this thread will be updated with a featured topic article/discussion that resides here in this forum. I'll highlight some topic out of the Best Of thread or from post history and link it here. I'll post the topic here with some links and change it periodically to keep the presention of new topics rotating.
Members can comment here if they want to comment about the choice, BUT if you want to engage in discussion on the featured thread topic itself, you are encouraged to add to/continue any general threads elsewhere in the binoc forum. Enjoy, edz.
First Binocular Purchase? Questions?
What do you recommend for a first binocular? What can I expect to see?
This is not an uncommon question at all, but one that usually should at least stir up another 10 questions. Before anyone can make any recommendations to you, YOU need to answer a lot more questions about yourself and your needs. For instance, What do you intend to See with this binocular? When you have developed some thoughts on each of these questions, and you begin to understand some of these basic things about binoculars, then we can reasonably recommend a binocular that will work for you.
Here’s some of what we don't know about you that would be helpful for making a recommendation:
Do you wear eyeglasses?
If so, will you always wear them when using the binocular? For eyeglasses, consider a binocular with about 14-16mm eye relief. 11-12mm is tight and you will lose some of the field of view. 8-10mm of eyerelief is extremely tight and if you have eyeglasses on, your eyes will be so far behind the proper eye relief point that you will not be able to see a large portion of the field of view.
Do you know your Inter-pupilary distance (IPD)?
Some binoculars are not made to fit people with narrow set eyes. If you have eye pupils that are set only 56mm apart, a binocular that has a minimum of 58mm is no good for you. The Swift Ultralite 8x42 gets down to 51mm, but the Orion Vista 8x42 only closes to 59mm. All the Nikon Action Extremes get down to 55mm. But some of the larger 20x80 and 25x100 binoculars have a smallest (closest) setting of only 60mm. Most children cannot use binoculars that don’t get down to 56-58mm.
Do you know how large your eye pupils are?
In a nut shell, if you are using a binocular with a 7mm exit pupil, for example a 10x70, but your eyes dilate to only a maximum of 5mm, then your binocular is effectively performing as if it were 10x50. You gain no more light gathering, brightness or resolution than the maximum exit pupil allows. In this case the maximum exit pupil is controlled by your eyes and would be limited to 5mm.
Under dark conditions, if your eye pupils open to 7mm, you would be able to use the full exit pupil from most all binoculars. BUT, if your eye pupils don't get any larger than 4mm or 5mm, it won't do you any good to carry around the extra weight of the glass needed to provide a very large exit pupil. 12x60, 10x50 and 8x40 are all examples of 5mm exit pupil binoculars. 20x80 has a 4mm exit pupil. 10x60 has a 6mm exit pupil. 10x70 has a 7mm exit pupil. 7x50 has a 7.1mm exit pupil. If you have maximum 5mm eye pupils and you use a 10x70 binocular that has a 7mm exit pupil, your smaller eye cuts the effective aperture to 50mm and eliminates all the light outside that. You can pretty easily have someone help you measure your eye pupils in a fairly dark room. An easy method is to use a strip of paper with a series of dot sizes, sliced thru the middle of all the dots.
Will you observe in very low light conditions?
A 10x50 has only a 5mm exit pupil, but an 10x70 has a 7mm exit pupil providing a far brighter image, and that would be useful IF your eye pupils open wide enough to take in all the light. Generally, binoculars with such large exit pupils are used by people who can view from very dark skies. Or for example for terrestrial observing the choice might be between a 8x42 or a 8x56. The 8x56 would give brighter images and be more useful under low-light conditions. Actually, I consider binoculars with 7mm exit pupils as specialty binoculars and I would rarely recommend them to a first time buyer. Pay attention to eye pupils here again. As far as light goes, you can only use an exit pupil as large as your eye pupil.
Do you demand a waterproof binocular, or simply a weatherproof binocular?
There are waterproof binoculars, water resistant binoculars and binoculars that have no resistance to water infiltration. If you plan often to use your binoculars down by the seaside, you will most certainly want the ability to wash off the salt spray. For that you need waterproof. For astronomy it may not be needed at all. However, it will keep moisture from ever fogging up the insides, and that’s a good thing.
Have you any experience hand-holding binoculars?
You need to give some consideration to how much weight you can hold for long periods or how much magnification you can hold for a steady view? My 7x35 Minolta Activa weigh only 24oz. The Swift Ultralite 8x42 weighs about 22 ounces. The Nikon Action Extreme 10x50 weighs in at 36 ounces. The Oberwerk Mariner 10x60 and the William Optic ED 7x50 each weigh over 48oz. Generally holding anything over 10x is not an issue with the weight as much as it is an issue holding 10x power steady enough to stop the image from swimming around in your view. Some 15x70 binoculars weigh only a little more than 3.5#, but at 15x, every little movement of your hands or arms or even your heartbeat, will show up in the magnified image. I’ve handheld my 4#12oz Fujinon 16x70 for brief periods, but I wouldn’t want to use them handheld for a full night. Some recommend the consideration of IS binoculars.
Have you any experience with wide-field versus narrow-field?
Things in motion put more demands on how much field of view you use. 15x70 binoculars usually have a little more than 4.0° field of view. The Nikon SE 12x50 has 5°. Many 10x50 binoculars have about a 6.0° field of view. The Nikon Action Extreme 8x40 has an 8.0° field of view. A 25x100 or 20x80 binocular will generally provide only 2.5° to 3.0°. If you don't know the differences between what the fields of view (fov) look like, then you need to try about three different sized pair with different fov. Put one edge of your view on the exact same spot for each binocular and make a note of how far across a wall it can see. Compare with the others. Every 1° field of view is 1.75 feet across at a distance of 100 feet. You need a 5-6° field of view to fit the Hyades. You need only 3° to fit the Pleiades with room to spare.
Here’s some of what people will talk about that you should know at least a little bit about:
What difference do multi coatings make?
Coatings are a very important product in the transmission of light. In this age of products, no one should purchase binoculars that have uncoated surfaces. An uncoated lens surface can reflect 4% of the light hitting it. Uncoated internal surfaces contibute to more internal reflections and lowered contrast. Magnesium Flouride (MgF) single coating can reduce reflected light to 1.5%. Properly applied multicoatings can reduce that reflectance to 0.5% or 0.25% per lens surface. A binocular may have as many as 14 lens surfaces. With the exception of extremely high level of performace of some superior coatings, even a properly muticoated binocular can transmit at best only about 93% to 96% of incoming light. The same binocular with all 14 surfaces only single coated with MgF may transmit only 79% of the light. Subtract a few tenths of a magnitude from the “how faint” numbers above for any binoculars that are not fully multi-coated.
What’s Chromatic Aberration?
Binoculars can suffer from a number of aberrations but this one is often discussed. Chromatic Aberration (CA) is the result of the various wavelengths of light not reaching focus at the same precise point in the image. CA is a function of refraction. Light from different wavelengths is refracted differently. Blue, yellow and red wavelengths of light reach focus at slightly different points along the focal length axis of the lens. The most important thing the user should understand is that it is impossible to completely eliminate CA from a lens system. It can be reduced, but cannot be eliminated altogether. In an astro binocular, it appears prominently in less than 1% of the objects viewed. So it should be one of the least critical aberrations on which to base a decision, unless of course you are buying your binoculars just to look at the moon. Judge your choice of binocular on all the features that make a difference in the view 99% of the time. Honestly, the planets are not binocular targets, so the moon is the only astro target that would be a consideration for judging whether one needs to consider CA in the choices of astro binocular. For terrestrial viewing, CA becomes an important factor. CA becomes a problem in extremely bright conditions, not in low light conditions.
What’s all this talk about sharp field of view?
Sharpness of field image is deteriorated in the outer field of view by a combination of other aberrations, the scope of which is beyond this discussion, but they are coma, spherical aberration, curvature and astigmatism. Generally (but not always), a wider Afov binocular will suffer from more aberrations in the outer portions of the field of view. Much of those aberrations are contributed by the eyepieces, and it takes a very high quality eyepiece to successfully eliminate the aberrations in a wide field. Think about the cost of the binoculars you have in mind, and then think about the cost of a pair of good 18mm to 22mm widefield eyepieces. Usually, binoculars don’t have the highest quality eyepieces. Therefore, somewhat narrower Afov binoculars, usually in the range of afov 60° and lower, have less aberrations in the outer field of view. Many Pentax binoculars use very narrow Afov eyepieces, resulting in a narrow but extremely well corrected and sharp field of view. It doesn’t do you much good to purchase a wide-field 20x80 with an Afov of 70° if the outer 30% is degraded. You may as well get a 20x80 with a 60° Afov with less aberrations.
Why do these binoculars look the same, but one is so much cheaper?
Probably the most important differences in any two binoculars that look the same but sell for much different prices is (A)the mechanical construction, workings and range of adjustment, and (B)(and very likely more important) the degree to which all the optical surfaces have been figured, polished and coated. There are other things that make a difference in the quality and most of them are not visible on the outside. Usually, cheaper is not just cheaper for no reason at all.
What should I consider for a mount?
Many times people ask, Why do you always say you can't mount an 8# binocular on a tripod that is rated for 8#. That is because the load rating for tripods is determined with the load weight directly over the tripod head and directly over the tripod column. Furthermore, load ratings are based on cameras with little to no magnification. With binocular viewing, we often have a heavy load hanging off of one side. That is like a cantilever or an eccentric load. In all things mechanical, it takes a beefier support to hold an eccentric load than it does to take a direct load. Add to that some 10x or 12x or 25x magnification and you can see the need for stability goes up exponentially. If the tripod is tall enough, you can mount a 2# to 4# binocular on most tripods from $90 to about $150. BUT people are often surprised to find out once they have spent $300 to $400 on an 8# 20x80 or 10# 25x100 binocular that they now must spend $350 to $500 on a substantial tripod and fluid head to hold such a large instrument.
For some comparisons of what different size binoculars can see when compared under the same mag 5.5 skies see
First Binocular Purchase? Questions? The Complete Post
Now then, coming around to what might help you make your decision:
So what is your goal?
Do you want to scan around and see the sky in general? Do you still need to learn your way around the constellations? If so, get a low power wide field binocular. You might be content with an 8x40, but I’d go for a 10x50.
Do you want to observe mostly open clusters and some of the brighter deep sky objects? Maybe you have no desire to lug around a 8#-10# binocular mounted on a 10# tripod, and sometimes you might prefer to just ahndhold your binocular for a few minutes. A low to moderate power and light weight 12x50 up to a 15x70 is a great choice for this.
Do you want to see both large and small clusters, hunt down faint objects and see extension in galaxies? A 15x70 might do it for you. But if you want the most out of deep sky viewing and you will consider investing in a good mount, then you should be looking for a 20x80 or 25x100 size.
If you're looking for a handheld binocular, then consider this; If you don't like the way a binocular feels in your hands, it probably isn't a good choice for you no matter what the specs indicate. One of the primary advantages of binoculars over telescopes is comfort and ease of use. No matter how outstanding a binocular is optically, if it isn't comfortable for YOU, it's probably not a good choice. If your looking for a large mounted binocular, you must consider whether you currently have enough of a mount or will you invest in a proper mount.
Don't rush into accepting recommendations because someone thinks this or that is great. Consider all the information provided to you, but get a binocular that fits you like a good pair of shoes. When you wear them, they get the job done right, and you can't even tell they are there.
These models mentioned here are not necessarily recommended choices, but in the context of getting to the questions that need answers, they help make the point.
Some other threads that will be helpful in your quest
I would also suggest all beginners read these two threads
Testing Binoculars in the Store Before Buying
These Look The Same, are they?
This post summarizes a lot of the quality differences that might exist among various brands and price levels of binoculars, most of which would never be evident by looking at the outside of the binocular. With this post we try to do our best to provide you the information you need to dispense with the often heard internet myth that they are all the same. It's just not so.
See more on this subject thru this Best Of link
If They Look the Same, What Could be Different?
Read about Exit Pupil vs Eye Pupil here
Affect of Eye Pupil on Binocular Aperture THREAD
Affect of Eye Pupil on Binocular Aperture CN REPORT
Edited by EdZ (10/09/09 06:13 PM)
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
read the above on the subject of
Making a First Binocular Purchase, and the questions you might be asking yourself, or the questions members of this forum will ask you to help you make a purchase.
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.