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jrweisner
member


Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 59
Nikon 15x70 IF WP HP
      #1823572 - 09/06/07 08:31 AM

Hi all,
Iīm waiting impatiently for a Nikon porro model from Japan.
The Nikon 15x70 was discontinued in 2004.
I think and hope I can get one new.
This very interesting bino was only produced for japanese market.
I think it will be a good completion for my little nikon collection.
When the bino has arrived I like to present it for you.

Best regards from germany

Juergen
--------------------------
Nikon 7x50 IF HP WP (tropical)
Nikon 7x50 IF SP WP
Nikon 10x70IF HP WP
Nikon,10x70IF SP WP
Nikon 18x70IF WP WF
Vixen 127 /F4
Pentax PF 100 ED

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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camvan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 2142
Loc: British Columbia
Re: Nikon 15x70 IF WP HP new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1824192 - 09/06/07 02:10 PM

I'm looking forward to reading your 'first impressions' once it's arrived and you've looked thru it a bit!

--------------------
Cameron

"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis

Intes MN66
Meade SN8
handfull of cheap ep's


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brocknroller
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Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Bedford Falls, Pa.
Re: Nikon 15x70 IF WP HP new [Re: camvan]
      #1824393 - 09/06/07 04:11 PM

Juergen,

Yes, I'd also be interested in hearing a review of this model especially since you have some fine Nikons to compare it with, including one of Bill Cook's favorites, the 7x50 Tropicals.

I like the 15x70 configuration for stargazing, but I'd rather have a 15x70 with higher quality Japanese optics that STAY in collimation.

I'm a big Nikon bin fan too, I used to own a 12x50 SE, but now I have a collection of Nikon birding and general purpose bins:
8x32 LX
8x32 SE
8x30 E2
8x35 WF
7x35 WF
8x23 Venturer II

Brock Nippon :-)

--------------------
Press: Are you a mod or a rocker?
Ringo: I'm a mocker


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hallelujah
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Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 3980
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains
Re: Nikon 15x70 IF WP HP new [Re: brocknroller]
      #1824508 - 09/06/07 05:08 PM

Brock,

I understand that the Nikon Sports and Marine 7x50mm IF is made in Japan. Have you had an opportunity to look through one yet? Any remarks about the quality?

--------------------
Nikon7x35GoldSentinel 9.3*(2)+Pentax8x40PCFWPII+MinoxBD10x44BP+FujinonFMTRSX7x50
Nikon10x50GoldSentinel+Pentax12x50 5.5*Japan+Pentax12x50PCFWPII+Vixen8x56Geoma
Fujinon12x60HB+Pentax16x60PCFWP+Pentax20x60PCFWP+Pentax20x60PCFWPII
Tento20x60USSR+Orion12x63MiniGiant+Spectrum I 20x65+Orion15x70LittleGiant II
Orion20x70LittleGiant II+Orion16x80Giant+Orion30x80MEGAView+Barska30x80X-Trail
BurgessOptical20x90SeriesII


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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Bedford Falls, Pa.
Re: Nikon 15x70 IF WP HP new [Re: hallelujah]
      #1824975 - 09/06/07 09:09 PM

Hi Stan,

No I haven't tried the Nikon S & M 7x50s; the 7x50 configuration has too large an exit pupil for my eyes.

Capn' Cook has pitched the benefits of using a wider exit pupil than one needs, and what he says makes sense, particularly for marine use, but for stargazing, 7x50s wash out my already bright skies. A 4-4.5mm exit pupil works best in my area and for my eyes, hence my interest in the 15x70s.

The contrast with my 12x50 SE was excellent when moisture was fairly low (below 50% is low for Cloudy Valley) and when the contrast was decent (on non-football weekends -- the Nittany Lions pack in about 100,000 extra visitors on home game weekends, causing the light dome from campus and the downtown area to extend over the surrounding townships, and the skies look about as bright as when there's a quarter moon).

As Edz pointed out on another thread, the 12x50 SE resolves as well (or almost as well) as a Chinese 15x70, but I like the larger image scale of 15x, which I had on my Nikon 8-16x40 XL Zooms (narrow FOV, but very sharp optics).

If I could get the sharpness and contrast of an SE in a 15x70 format, that would be very appealing!

We also missed out on the fine Nikon telescopes and zoom EPs that were never sold in the US.

I wonder why Nikon chose not the market their telescopes, zoom EP, and the 15x70s in the US? The scopes had .965 EPs, which is a turn-off most AAs so that's one explanation. The zoom EP is supposed to be excellent (reviewed on CN), but needs an adapter, and if the 15x70s are on par with the others in the Prostar/Astroluxe series, it would probably have been devoured over here by AAs who can't make use the larger exit pupil bins.

Brock

--------------------
Press: Are you a mod or a rocker?
Ringo: I'm a mocker


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hallelujah
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Reged: 07/14/06
Posts: 3980
Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains
Re: Nikon 15x70 IF WP HP new [Re: brocknroller]
      #1825002 - 09/06/07 09:21 PM

Thanks Brock,

Actually, I was thinking about the possibility of daytime use for the Nikon 7x50mm IF.

On another optics talk forum someone said that the S & M 7x50mm was good out to around 75% with softening around the edges.

I will keep my ears and eyes open and see if anyone else has experience with these.

--------------------
Nikon7x35GoldSentinel 9.3*(2)+Pentax8x40PCFWPII+MinoxBD10x44BP+FujinonFMTRSX7x50
Nikon10x50GoldSentinel+Pentax12x50 5.5*Japan+Pentax12x50PCFWPII+Vixen8x56Geoma
Fujinon12x60HB+Pentax16x60PCFWP+Pentax20x60PCFWP+Pentax20x60PCFWPII
Tento20x60USSR+Orion12x63MiniGiant+Spectrum I 20x65+Orion15x70LittleGiant II
Orion20x70LittleGiant II+Orion16x80Giant+Orion30x80MEGAView+Barska30x80X-Trail
BurgessOptical20x90SeriesII


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jrweisner
member


Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 59
Re: Nikon 15x70 IF WP HP new [Re: brocknroller]
      #1825502 - 09/07/07 04:30 AM

Hi Brock,

I expect a very high quality of the 15x70.
Nikon uses the good let me say standard objective in the 10x70 too which is
owned by me since 15 years.
The metallic body is always the same.
There was never a problem of danger by decollimation because they are extremly rigid and very stiffened.
Nikon uses for the 15x70 a 60 degree eyepiece with an eyerelief of 17.1 mm.
In comparism to the astroluxe 10x70 and prostar 7x50 which I also own both binos are using very fine ed objectives and have better correction of edge sharpness.
Also they have an incredible multilayer coating on all lens and all prism surfaces which gives an excellent view.
The image is total free of any reflections.
Very high transmission, even much better as comparable Fujinons or Zeiss.
The 18x70 which is sold in europe with 72 degrees eyepieces uses the same fine ed objectives.
This 18x70 astroluxe is the best suiting binocular for astronomical viewing worldwide in this league.
In my opinion it is better than the Zeiss 15x60 and better than the fujinon 16x70.
Sorry, my english isnīt good enough to explain all my knowledge concerning these Nikons.
Iīm also wondering why Nikon has never opened the 15x70 to american or european markets.
If all works fine Iīll get it in the next two weeks.

Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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Les
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/22/06
Posts: 859
Loc: Maryland
Re: Nikon 15x70 IF WP HP new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1826128 - 09/07/07 12:51 PM

Hi Juergen,

Quote:

The 18x70 which is sold in europe with 72 degrees eyepieces uses the same fine ed objectives.




I assume this is the same one sold here in U.S. but I always wondered why it doesn't have an "SP" designation like the 10x70 Astroluxe.

--------------------
Les

Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod


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gatorengineer
Carpal Tunnel


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Posts: 2004
Loc: Hellertown, PA
Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend............. new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1826220 - 09/07/07 01:36 PM



I have an 18x70 Astrolux 4 degree FOV, and to the best of my knowledge it is not ED glass...... I was double checking that there was not a recent change when I noticed it appears they have redesigned the 18x70 to only a 3 degree FOV.........

http://www.adorama.com/NK1870SP.html?searchinfo=18%20x%2070%20&item_no=1

I sure hope this is a typo, they Nikon USA site did not list specs. If so, one of the best astro binos ever has been discontinued...........

--------------------
A 60mm department store refractor started it all....


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jrweisner
member


Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 59
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: gatorengineer]
      #1826545 - 09/07/07 04:31 PM

The red ring marked objectives are always the sign for sp.
The 18x70 does use sp objectives believe me.
They use exactly the objective like 10x70 Astroluxe or the same 10x70 IF SP HP.
The change for USA market concerns only the eyepieces with 3 degrees for better edge sharpness.
The correct declaration for the 4 degrees Nikon should be 18x70 IF HP WF SP but Nikon nomenclature allows 3 let me say letter codes.
The 18x70 was very expensive, the price in Germany in 2002 was about 1800 euro, today you can get it for 1200 euro.
Only 4 degrees version is available in Europe.


Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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Les
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/22/06
Posts: 859
Loc: Maryland
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend............. new [Re: gatorengineer]
      #1826589 - 09/07/07 04:49 PM

The Adorama ad lists this as MFG#8210, which is the same as the 4 degree FOV model. I assume they got something wrong in the ad.

Virtually all dealers list this as having ED or "SP" glass. The documentation that came with mine makes no mention of special glass. The box is labeled #8210 just like the ads. The NikonUSA site has no info on this

--------------------
Les

Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod


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jrweisner
member


Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 59
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: Les]
      #1826644 - 09/07/07 05:13 PM

Nikon politics is sometimes hard to understand also here in germany.
They told me that exactly the same ED objectives are used for the 18x70.
Red coloured rings...
Please note that the original plastic eyecups with the rubber rings mounted are not suitable to the correct eye relief of 15.4 mm.
You canīt see the whole FOV.
Whatīs this?
You can only use special rubber eyecups from Nikon made in Japan.
This is just an example no one knows why they have done it.
May be japanese fellows own other eyes :-)

Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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Rick
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Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 3285
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1826870 - 09/07/07 07:09 PM

The 18x70 does NOT have ED (SP?) glass. I verified this with a Nikon engineer at the Tokyo Photo Imaging Expo 2 years ago. The Japanese catalog also indicates as much.

clear skies,
Rick

Edited by Rick (09/09/07 12:13 AM)


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jrweisner
member


Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 59
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: Rick]
      #1826907 - 09/07/07 07:28 PM

If the 18x70 has no ed objectives they donīt need to carry the red ring coloured objectives.
They could use the black body also for 18x70 astroluxe otherwise only used for 10x70 IF HP WP or 15x70 IF HP WP.
German Nikon authorities having very good contact to Nikon
in Japan have told me these bino uses definetly ed objectives.
Something is really unlogical!!!
Now I go to bed and I say good night to all because itīs too late for me here in Germany

Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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Rick
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1826947 - 09/07/07 07:47 PM

I believe the red stripe indicates the use of field flatteners in the eyepiece group.

Rick


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EdZ
Professor EdZ


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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: Rick]
      #1827667 - 09/08/07 07:02 AM

Take a laser pointer and shine it at an angle down into the objective lens. If there is no ED glass, you will see the beam pass thru each lens element as a shaft of light with a little bulbous node at each lens surface. If one of the elements is ED glass the shaft will not appear in that element. careful you don't mistake an air-spce. This little trick courtesy of Roland Christen.

green laser thru ED element

Air_Spaced Triplet

Air-spaced Doublet

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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jrweisner
member


Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 59
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: EdZ]
      #1827694 - 09/08/07 07:44 AM

Hi Edz,

thank you for the hint.
Iīll try it out Iīve enough nikons to compare...

Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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Rick
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: EdZ]
      #1827703 - 09/08/07 07:54 AM

Quote:

If one of the elements is ED glass the shaft will not appear in that element. careful you don't mistake an air-spce. This little trick courtesy of Roland Christen.




I am pretty sure this test only indicates the presence of Fluorite, and does not hold for the various kinds of ED, SD, SP, or other low dispersion glasses.

Rick


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jrweisner
member


Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 59
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: Rick]
      #1827727 - 09/08/07 08:31 AM

Now Iīve checked it using a red laser.
By comparing both binoculars objectives 10x70 IF SP WP (astroluxe) and 18x70 IF WP WF (astroluxe) with the method described by Edz Iīve seen no difference.
Exactly the same appearance on both.

Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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pedro
sage


Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 236
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1827966 - 09/08/07 11:04 AM

So this mean that you found there the ED element in both?
In my opinion make no sense Nikon to provide with the ED element just their LESS powered 70mm model instead their HIGH powered one...sounds a bit strange...but as said before this is just my thought.

cheers Pedro

--------------------



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jrweisner
member


Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 59
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: pedro]
      #1828072 - 09/08/07 11:46 AM

Ok, once again:

NIKON 7x50 IFHPWP(Tropical) no ED no red coloured objective
NIKON 10x70 IFHPWP(Standard) no ED no red coloured objective
NIKON 15x70 IFHPWP(Japan) no ED no red coloured objective

NIKON 7x50 IFSPWP(Prostar) has ED and wears red colour obj
NIKON 10x70 IFSPWP(Astroluxe)has ED and wears red colour obj
NIKON 18x70 IFWPWF(Astroluxe)has ED and wears red colour obj

By comparing the 10x70 (Astroluxe) with the 18x70 (Astroluxe) there can be
no differences found by checking their objectives with laser pointer.
If the method says something about ED or not I couldnīt say.
I can say that in my knowledge the 18x70 has also ED objective.
By comparing it with the Fujinon 16x70 for a long time, there are more colour abberations found on the Fuji.
And other differences.
I owned Fujinon series for a long time.
The Nikon 18x70 has a higher magnification and also approximately f/4.
That is a major fact which also makes it clear for me that the red ring marked Nikon 18x70 uses ED objectives too.
Please note that the images on 7x50 IFHPWP or on 10x70 IFHPWP are good enough too, without ED.
But they have no high magnification.
They are beating the most binoculars in this league without any problems.

Juergen


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pedro
sage


Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 236
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1828131 - 09/08/07 12:22 PM

Quote:

If the 18x70 has no ed objectives they donīt need to carry the red ring coloured objectives.





Regarding the red stripe - at the Nikon Encycolpedia site where the ''ED glass'' is mentioned they show there just a picture of a red striped housing - this could be seen at:

http://nikon.topica.ne.jp/bi_e/encyclo/encyclo.htm

I was unable to find the the term ''SP'' connected to a glass type...somebody knows where could I find it?
The ''SP'' could not be something like ''Shock Proof''? Just a thought...

Pedro

--------------------



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jrweisner
member


Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 59
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: pedro]
      #1828272 - 09/08/07 01:42 PM

SP means special purpose
IF means inner focus
HP means high eyepoint
WF means widefield
WP means waterproof


--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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pedro
sage


Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 236
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1828300 - 09/08/07 01:52 PM

Quote:

SP means special purpose
IF means inner focus
HP means high eyepoint
WF means widefield
WP means waterproof





Hello thanks.

Where comes write ''special purpose''? This is mentioned at their booklets?
''IF'' according the Nikon literature means ''Individual Focusing'' if I am not wrong.

Pedro

--------------------



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jrweisner
member


Reged: 02/15/07
Posts: 59
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: pedro]
      #1828361 - 09/08/07 02:18 PM

you are right...IF means Individual Focusing.
Ten years ago in german catalogue SP means space.
They have often changed sometimes something.
In Germany Nikon service and politics are often critizised.
In last time quality of service has changed and I think it is much better than before.
They are able to produce even some of the best binos in the world!

Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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Mark9473
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: EdZ]
      #1828515 - 09/08/07 03:37 PM

Quote:

Take a laser pointer and shine it at an angle down into the objective lens. If there is no ED glass, you will see the beam pass thru each lens element as a shaft of light with a little bulbous node at each lens surface. If one of the elements is ED glass the shaft will not appear in that element. careful you don't mistake an air-spce. This little trick courtesy of Roland Christen.



Somewhere things don't add up. Around the time I bought my WO 80FD there was an intensive discussion on whether or not it had a fluorite element or 'just' a fluoride glass like FPL-53. At that time the laser pointer test was used as conclusive evidence it was an ED element i.e. it showed the trace of the laser in both objective elements, whereas in fluorite it would not.

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet


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Rick
Post Laureate


Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 3285
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: Mark9473]
      #1828865 - 09/08/07 06:55 PM

Well once again, using a GREEN laser will indicate the presence of Fluorite. A RED laser indicates nothing about the glass type.

The SP designation means "Special Performance" and has nothing to do with the red stripe around the objective. The red stripe indicates the presence of a field flattener lens.

In the current Japanese Nikon catalog, the SP binoculars are grouped together and are specifically recommended and designed for star watching. The 18x70 IF WF is together with the other "marine use" 7x50 and 10x70 IF HP binoculars. Starwatching gets a secondary mention.

FWIW, another difference is the 50mm binoculars have a JIS waterproof rating of 5m while the 70mm binoculars have a rating of 2m.

Hope this helps,
Rick

Edited by Rick (09/08/07 07:35 PM)


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mooreorless
Just worried


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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: pedro]
      #1829200 - 09/08/07 09:32 PM Attachment (73 downloads)

Hello Pedro, I see there is a red ring on Nikon 82 ED scope. As I see this red ring might mean something on the Nikon 60ED and 82ED spotters , but the Nikon 50 ED spotter has what looks like a red ring towards the eyepiece. The picture Nikon shows under their "Encyclopedia" under ED glass looks like the front half of one of their ED fieldscopes. I edited this so as not to lead any more to the confusion and am sorry if it did. :-)

Attachment

Edited by mooreorless (09/09/07 09:30 AM)


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pedro
sage


Reged: 09/28/04
Posts: 236
Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: Rick]
      #1829223 - 09/08/07 09:40 PM

Quote:


The SP designation means "Special Performance" and has nothing to do with the red stripe around the objective. The red stripe indicates the presence of a field flattener lens.





Hello Rick

Please check it out there carefully at the Nikon website where their spotting scopes using a common glass doublet type (the NOT ED's) don't carry the red stripe around their bodies in any place while the real ED's show them...

The NOT ED's devices:

http://nikon.topica.ne.jp/bi_e/products/nature_b.htm#1

THE ED's:

http://nikon.topica.ne.jp/bi_e/products/nature_a.htm#1

In none Of them I was able to found some mention about their flattener lens benefit however...any reason about? Why just on the ED's are striped in Red?

Pedro

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hallelujah
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: pedro]
      #1829267 - 09/08/07 10:13 PM

Pedro,

In the 2007 Nikon USA catalog the ED (Extra-low dispersion) glass is designated by the "red stripe" around the front objective or the rear eyepiece tube. (Fieldscopes/Spotting Scopes only)

On their USA website the astronomy binoculars have SP/Special Perfromance glass.

Edited by hallelujah (09/09/07 12:48 AM)


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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: hallelujah]
      #1829424 - 09/09/07 12:10 AM

Well I believe what you want. I have confirmed it with a Nikon product engineer.

I should also point out that Fujinon used a yellow stripe to differentiate the FMT from the MT series in the "old" black binos. From all outward appearances the Nikon 7x50/10x70HP and 7x50/10x70SP series look and are marked identical except for the red stripe. Unless you weighed or looked through them you cannot tell the difference. The only confirmed difference in the optics is the field flattener lens in the red stripe series.

Now this may sound like heresy but I am even willing to guess that Nikon does not use any ED or low dispersion glass in ANY of its binoculars. Nowhere in the Japan catalog or on the Japan web site do they say they do, unlike with the field scopes. In fact, the only mention of glass type is the use of lead/arsenic-free ECO-glass in the HG-L series. ED glass is big marketing buzz, and there is no reason not to boast about it. I would also speculate that as expensive as the red striped binoculars are, they would cost even more if the objectives were ED glass.

Whatever the truth is, the 18x70IF WP is still a fantastic binouclar that is more face-friendly than the Fujinon 16x70FMT and does seem to put up brighter images.

cheers,
Rick

Edited by Rick (09/09/07 12:21 AM)


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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: Rick]
      #1829574 - 09/09/07 03:22 AM

Interesting , if confusing , stuff .

Rick , have you any idea why Nikon does NOT put a RED RING on their HG and SE series binoculars , which I believe also have field flattener lenses ?

Regards , Kenny

--------------------


Milton Wilcox R.I.P






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Rick
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: KennyJ]
      #1829627 - 09/09/07 04:54 AM

Kenny I think the stripe itself doesn't stand for anything. It is just a cosmetic marking to let consumers know it is not an HP model. As you know, Nikon does not make other binos that look identical to the SE and HG lines to cause confusion. FYI, I think the Action EX my also have a flattener too.

One more point. After studying the Japanese catalog and web site today I think the ONLY REASON Nikon considers the 7x50/10x70 "designed" for starwatching is because of the 7mm exit pupil. So it seems you've had it right all along!!

cheers,
Rick


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jrweisner
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: Rick]
      #1829641 - 09/09/07 05:07 AM

Rick,

I think you are right and Iīm wrong.
The red stripe has confused me and others for a long time.
Now Iīve taken a look at a white building outside in a distance of 200 meters.
Comparing both binos 7x50 Tropical and 7x50 SP if have seen absolutely no differences to colour abberations on the edges.
It is exactly the same on both!
The edge is much sharper by using the SP also the image is brighter and brings more sharpness at all.
The difference is 125 gramm more weight for the SP caused
be using a field flattener lens.
In the middle of picture is no visible CA on both.
Iīve also compared 10x70 IF and 10x70 SP by looking again at the same white building.
The same effect on both binos again but slightly less CA comparing it to both of the 7x50 models.
Here is also a difference found in the total weight because the 10x70 SP is heavier having 115 gramm more total weight.
If they would have used ED objectives for the SP the CA should be minor at all.


Sajonara
Juergen


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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1829661 - 09/09/07 05:34 AM

Actually Juergen, I wish you were right as I am a Nikon snob.

I too believed there had to be something really unique about SP to justify the high price. But after spending some quality time with them and the Fujinon FMT series, I came to the conclusion the Nikons just had better ergonomics for me and images that are noticeably brighter. Strange because the Fujinons have their famous EBC coatings that are supposed to have 95% transmission rates. Hard to improve on that!


cheers,
Rick


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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: Rick]
      #1829670 - 09/09/07 05:54 AM

Wouldn't it be useful if leading binocular manufacturers had technical representatives who frequented forums such as this to provide " no - spin " definitive answers to questions such as these ?

Minox and Zeiss are represented to a certain extent in such a way on the Birdforum forums , and I think it can only boost customer confidence in the companies concerned .

Regards , Kenny

--------------------


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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: Rick]
      #1829691 - 09/09/07 06:44 AM

Quote:

FYI, I think the Action EX my also have a flattener too.





Just checked the 10x50 EX and the 12x50 EX.

Confirmed they DO NOT have a field flattener. Both have a sizable amount of curvature that can be focused out at 60-70% out in the field. If they had a flattener, that would not be present.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
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pedro
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1829730 - 09/09/07 07:43 AM

Quote:


By comparing the 10x70 (Astroluxe) with the 18x70 (Astroluxe) there can be
no differences found by checking their objectives with laser pointer.
If the method says something about ED or not I couldnīt say.






Hello Juergen

I need to confess - I am now a bit curious about some ''Laser pointer test'' just on your ''Standard 10X model'' since you tried it already on the Astroluxe 10X and 18X by using that method.
If this test says something and if NO ONE difference could be detected there in comparison with the SP - so this should to comprove they really carry just the same kind of glass in both of their 10X objectives.

thanks Pedro

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pedro
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux, End of a Legend......... new [Re: EdZ]
      #1829744 - 09/09/07 08:05 AM

Quote:

Take a laser pointer and shine it at an angle down into the objective lens. If there is no ED glass, you will see the beam pass thru each lens element as a shaft of light with a little bulbous node at each lens surface. If one of the elements is ED glass the shaft will not appear in that element. careful you don't mistake an air-spce. This little trick courtesy of Roland Christen.





Hello Edz / Rick

This green laser test works fine to the ED's (as mentioned by Edz) or only with the Fluorite element (as mentioned by Rick)?
I apologize with both but I am confused about it now.

thanks Pedro

--------------------



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jrweisner
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: pedro]
      #1829805 - 09/09/07 09:05 AM

Pedro,

Iīve bad news.
All of these Nikon IF or SP are using the SAME objectives.
The differences between their objectives are only multicoating (red-green)for SP or coating (blue)for IF.
Ricks statements are really hard for me but he is totally right.
However the SPs are the better choice, because they have the
field flattener lenses and a superb multilayer coating really free of any ghost images.
The result is a very bright and sharp image, little better than the
standard models and always better than Fujinon or Zeiss.
OK?

Juergen


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pedro
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1830028 - 09/09/07 11:32 AM

Hello Juergen

Ok thanks.
This thread about the Nikon's Astroluxe/Standard are going to be (IMO) a quite important source of information for all of us (and maybe of course for some here in the future) about their ''real'' optical characteristics...which however (with or without in any way) are some the very good ones in any respect whit no doubt!

cheers Pedro

--------------------



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jrweisner
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: pedro]
      #1830092 - 09/09/07 12:03 PM

Hi Pedro,

you and all others are always welcome.
If on interest visit our German side and see
my "fight" for the excellent Nikons against
Fujinon, Zeiss and other famous German binos.
http://forum.astronomie.de
You can find 2 big posts concerning Nikon SP under the same synonym "jrweisner"
The language is German but translation tools are available worldwide on the web.

see you
Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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pedro
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Re: Nikon 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1830509 - 09/09/07 03:19 PM

Hello Juergen ok.

I will read the comments there using a german/english translator...you know...I don't understand one only word in german and my father was a Austrian citizen who was born (and lived there for years and years) in Viena...it's of course a shame!
Regarding the Laser test..I noticed you used at your test a red one - according the Edz/Rick the Laser should be a green one - if you get a test in the future using a green laser please let us know if the results show something more, I don't know if you will find something more...but...

regards Pedro

--------------------



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Re: Nikon 7x50 Pro 10x70 Astrolux 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: pedro]
      #1831979 - 09/10/07 10:37 AM

Hi all,

Iīve got now an offical statement from Nikon Germany.
They have asked an expert in the Netherlands.
Here is his statement "These Binos have no ED glass this red line is for design point of view to seperate from other Marine Bino to create a high grade image"
Thatīs exactly what Rick has written yesterday.
I asked some Nikon stores often before and they have told me always that there is definetly ED glass.
I regret having stated the wrong things and want to clarify this hereby.
As I have also stated this in the german forum, I have to clarify it there as well.

Regards
Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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Les
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Re: Nikon 7x50 Pro 10x70 Astrolux 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1832142 - 09/10/07 11:57 AM

Quote:

I asked some Nikon stores often before and they have told me always that there is definetly ED glass.




The dealers here also make the same statements in their ads, so the confusion is understandable.

--------------------
Les

Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod


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pedro
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Re: Nikon 7x50 Pro 10x70 Astrolux 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1832143 - 09/10/07 11:57 AM

Hello

Great! At least we know now the exactly truth.
Regarding the ''3š model'' present in some Website stores in US - I wrote to one of them just asking about to comfirm if they are 3š or the regular 4š - they told me that they in fact have 4š with 72š wide AFOV and that is just a TYPO.

regards Pedro

--------------------



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jrweisner
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Re: Nikon 7x50 Pro 10x70 Astrolux 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: pedro]
      #1832151 - 09/10/07 12:05 PM

Hello,

this was my second little failure.
I realized it for rightness in the information by some
american dealers..
Nikon produces only the 4 degrees 18x70 model.
Now all is clarified.

Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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Re: Nikon 7x50 Pro 10x70 Astrolux 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1832266 - 09/10/07 12:56 PM

< Now all is clarified.>

Thank goodness for that ! :-)

I must admit , I had my doubts about that " alternative " 3 degree TFOV version all along .

Seriously , though -- thank you Juergen for making the efforts to find out the truth about this matter , and for letting us know , and for being honest enough to admit your previous information was incorrect .

Regards , Kenny

--------------------


Milton Wilcox R.I.P






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Re: Nikon 7x50 Pro 10x70 Astrolux 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: KennyJ]
      #1838225 - 09/13/07 04:25 AM

Hi all,

look here what weīve found - I think this is
really interesting for us Nikon fans
7x50 SP

Regards
Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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Re: Nikon 7x50 Pro 10x70 Astrolux 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1838916 - 09/13/07 12:30 PM

Thanks for the link, Juergen. I have an old Nikon brochure with the same internal view which I tried to describe in a post a couple of years ago. For some reason my computer screen doesn't show the entire eyepiece, which is 5 elements in 4 groups arranged just like the Fujinon 7x50 FMT-SX eyepiece (the Nikon came first). Of course the unique feature of the design is the (possibly aspheric?) element placed just behind the prism cluster. This should probably be considered a third objective element since it does not move with the eyepiece elements and is located just in front of the focal plane of the objective. This surely accounts for the superior correction for field curvature in the Nikon SP binoculars compared to the Fujinon FMTs, which have good correction for off-axis astigmatism but show considerable field curvature compared to the Nikons. This extra element could be the location of the mysterious "SP" glass. It is not present in the 18x70, which doesn't carry the SP designation..

I'm also happy to see the pervasive myth of an ED objective in the Nikon Prostar/Astroluxe corrected in this thread.


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Re: Nikon 7x50 Pro 10x70 Astrolux 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: Henry Link]
      #1838981 - 09/13/07 12:56 PM

Quote:

I'm also happy to see the pervasive myth of an ED objective in the Nikon Prostar/Astroluxe corrected in this thread.




AND that the 18x70 does not have the SP feature that the 10x70 has, if I understand correctly.

--------------------
Les

Canon 10x42L IS
Oberwerks BT80/45, Helix Hercules mount on Oberwerks Standard Tripod
Swift 8x44ED Ultralite
Questar 50th Anniversary Model, 501 head on Manfrotto 475 tripod
Stellarvue SV90T 90mm Fluorite refractor Bogen 3236/Televue Tele-Pod Head
Questar 7 Astro
Vixen GP-DX on Baader Surveyor Tripod


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Re: Nikon 7x50 Pro 10x70 Astrolux 18x70 Astrolux new [Re: Les]
      #1839372 - 09/13/07 03:40 PM

Thatīs correct.
But we can be satisfied with this bino not having the asperic element, canīt we?

Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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pedro
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Re: Nikon18x70 Astrolux & Minox 15x58 new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1841915 - 09/14/07 04:58 PM

Hi

About the ''true'' Ed element on some high powered binoculars...have someone tried the MINOX BR ED 15x58??
I am curious about how the Minox 15x58 works with their ''real ED element'' regarding the CA, sharpness, true colors, etc, any comments?

regards Pedro

--------------------



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Re: Nikon18x70 Astrolux & Minox 15x58 new [Re: pedro]
      #1843077 - 09/15/07 08:31 AM

Pedro,

Some weeks ago I checked the Nikon 7x50 SP against the Zeiss 8x42 FL T*
Just for fun.
Normally you shouldnīt compare a Dachprism to a Porroprism.
Also you shouldnīt compare a higher magnification to a lower.
However the Nikon was better with LESS CA and MUCH BETTER with an extremely sharp image and best view of sharp edges.
Please note that the Zeiss uses a Fluorite element in their objectives!!
Believe me the Nikons are the best binoculars with porroprism design worldwide.
If I look to some other manufactors, I like to ask the question Lessons learned?
If Nikon would use ED objectives too, the optics would bee too expensive for the market.
If you want a perfect binocular with the the brightest, sharpest image, you should always use a Nikon SP.
If you want a perfect astronomical and terrestial binocular you should use the Nikon 18x70 WF.

Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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Mark9473
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Re: Nikon18x70 Astrolux & Minox 15x58 new [Re: jrweisner]
      #1843240 - 09/15/07 10:43 AM

Please tell Nikon I'd like a 12x70 in that flavour.

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet


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Re: Nikon18x70 Astrolux & Minox 15x58 new [Re: Mark9473]
      #1843505 - 09/15/07 01:18 PM

I can do so.
But Japanese politics are sometimes hard to understand...



Juergen

--------------------
Nikon 7x50 SP
Nikon 10x35 E II
Nikon 10x70 SP
Nikon 18x70 WF
Kowa 8,5x44 Genesis
Pentax PF 100-ED with XW14, XW10, XW 7
Manfrotto 055 with Head 701RC2
Docter 40x80 ED


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