|
Daniel Mounsey
Vendor - Celestron
Reged: 06/12/02
Posts: 4899
|
|
Last night was a bit too much for me. The local science church had a gathering down the road, which I was asked to attend and I gladly obliged. I attended last year too, however I didn't bring a scope and this year I did but I think it will be the last time for me. I realize some people mean well and have good intentions but regardless, even adults lack etiquette with their children and in some cases, etiquette themselves. This is a social event and many people will ask to look through the scope and my intentions were sincere by helping to raise awareness about the night sky.
All I brought was a 4" refractor with a portable tracking mount and there were various other instruments. The problem is that a good number of the adults were not controlling their kids and almost every-time they looked in the eyepiece, they kept pulling on it, and the subject would shift out of view, then I would have to align it again over and over. I don't know what it is with grabbing the eyepiece in almost every case. I would even explain it. Then the kids were were running around the scope.
My hope is to spark an interest in a child's eye, but it's frustrating when you try to provide a service and you are not given that same respect in return. I don't have any children myself, but I know if I did, I'd teach them to be respectful and courteous and IMO it's just common sense. I then realized I had some trouble with my declination on the mount from the kids constantly pulling on it. I could barely take my eyes off the scope out of concern that a parent wouldn't say anything. There were a few very polite children who asked questions and meant well but there are some parents who's teachings to their children are simply diplorable. For me, it's not worth the inconvenience and most people would look and walk away anyway. Then the Uranus jokes start up. I hope that if people make more discoveries, that they alocate names that will not divert people's attention and I'd check to see what the term means in other languages. 
--------------------
|
TonyDralle
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/17/06
Posts: 1158
Loc: Bethel Park, PA
|
|
To avoid that sort of thing, I usually say "your-in-us." Emphasis on the first syllable. (Although, even that,....!)
I've experienced the same thing with undisciplined kids. It seems to be part of our culture today.
- Tony
--------------------
- TonyD
|
katodog
Supreme Grandmaster
Reged: 03/31/06
Posts: 2619
Loc: Carol Stream, Illinois
|
|
The one thing you have to remember is that in this day and age, most people still don't have a clue what to do with a telescope. Most people haven't seen one in person, and those who have haven't spent the time to properly educate themselves on how to use one.
That's what we're for. If you take the time to bring a telescope along with you somewhere, then you should expect to have curious people asking for a peek. It's up to you to let them know in advance how to treat the equipment, not only from a technical standpoint, but also because it's your equipment, and you kow how you want it treated.
Whenever I've had the opportunity for people to come over, be they kids or adults, I always tell them how to look through the telescope, and not to hold the eyepiece or the image will shake. I've noticed that it's common for people to go to hold the eyepiece when they're getting their eye up to it. It's human nature, since they don't have the same depth perception we do, to hold the eyepiece so they don't smack their eye into it. It's not even a thought for us, since we've done it a thousand times. But for them, the idea of an eyepiece jammed in their eye is probably not appealing.
I just tell them to go slow, and try to position their eye over the eyepiece and look through it, not at it. For the most part, everyone does a good job of not grabbing the eyepiece. I've had a few that got it faster thn I could speak, but I caught them quick enough that they didn't grab too hard and bobble the scope.
You have to remember that, even if you're an amatuer, to them, you're the smartest guy on the planet when it comes to the night sky. After all, you're the guy with the fancy equipment.
As far as the bad astro jokes, unfortunately it comes with the territory. I just let it roll off, and explain that it's Yer-in-us, and not Your-anus. Come on, you know you used to laugh your sides off when you were a kid, making the same jokes that they did. I know I did. Back then it was funny, but now that we take it serious, it's bothersome. But, it was only due to lack of knowledge that we pronbounced it different, and it's up to us to teach others around us.
It takes more than an assumption that people know what they're doing. It takes more work on your part to show people the right and wrong, since you're the one providing the service. I look at it this way, if I can give one person out of twenty the same thrill I get, then it was well worth it. We all started somewhere.
--------------------
The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked
|
John Jarosz
Astro Gearhead
Reged: 04/25/04
Posts: 3026
Loc: Chicago area, IL
|
|
Dan,
The people you refer to are not beginners. They may not even have a genuine interest in astronomy. They may have shown up as just part of a social activity that happened to include astronomy. They are just passing time with whatever comes by. Same goes for their kids who prolly have even less interest than their parents. I don't know what you'd call them, but I don't think they are beginners.
I don't know how people who are docents or volunteers at museums or other public functions can deal witht he general public.
The general public is so used to having everything rendered down to their level of understanding that when something presented to them is out of their sphere they simply don't know what to do, how to behave or how to react. That same public is on autopilot when it comes to parenting. Sad but true.
It was a good effort on your part. I'm sure it wasn't 100% wasted.
John
--------------------
6" F4.6(w/Paracorr) Reflector , 8" F11 Dall Relay Scope ,
6" F5 RFT Refractor w/Istar Obj , G11 Mount Gemini1 Level 4
|
Downward Bound
Adrenaline Junkie
Reged: 03/29/06
Posts: 3106
Loc: Seattle
|
|
I couldn't agree more Daniel!
My wife and I often say that there's no such thing as a bad child or a bad dog - only bad parenting and bad pet owners (of course this is a generalization). We're often amazed by the disrespectful behavior we see in public by children and pets while the so-called adults "in charge" watch idly by. This type of behavior wouldn't be tolerated if it were the adults acting but for some, the fact it's children or pets it's somehow expected that we should all just accept it.
Other parents often comment on how "easy" our girls are compared to their more high-maintenance kids. That's bull - we've just taught them from the beginning to know the difference between acceptable and unacceptable behavior, how to show respect to others (kids and adults alike) and to understand that there are consequences for misbehavior - that they will lose the privilege to participate in the event/activity. We're not heavy-handed parents by any means but privileges come with responsibilities and these are life-lessons that will benefit the kids when they become adults. Okay - off my soapbox now....back to the scheduled program.....
....Parents and Pet Owners: It's your responsibility to make sure your kids and pets are acting responsibly, respectfully and in control at these events. If they can't behave then please respect everyone else and take them home - everyone will benefit and they will learn a valuable lesson.
Sorry for getting all preachy here but this is pet peeve (no pun intended) 
----added comment----
John - While agree that the non-astro general public at these events can be a problem, I have also seen a number of very experienced astronomers, who clearly know better, allow the kids and dogs to run wild at events. I have also met a good number of very curteous and erspectful passers-by.
--------------------
Bill
'flectors: R200SS, Webster/Kennedy 22" f/3.6
'fractors: PST, AT-66, TV-85, FS-102, APM/TMB-152
'bins: 15x63, 10x50, 10x52, 22x85
410+028B, Sphinx, Telepod, EZ Touch, G-11
Edited by Downward Bound (09/15/07 12:11 PM)
|
Indefatigable
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/29/06
Posts: 579
Loc: Toronto
|
|
It can be done. Be assertive -- speak loudly if you need to address a crowd. "Okay folks, one at a time, please. Make a line if you have to."
When there's a kid approaching, parentless or otherwise, take control of the situation. Put an arm between them and the scope if you think they're being too obstreperous, and lay out the rules. "Climb up the steps and look into the eyepiece without touching the scope -- it's delicate, and if you touch it it'll move and then it won't be pointing in the right place. If you have trouble balancing hang onto my arm." If you talk to the kids without automatically scolding, you're treating them like human beings and they're more likely to respect your instructions.
If you're in a group of Brownies, put your right hand in the air with your index and middle fingers extended together, and wait for them all to settle down. It's pretty funny. 
--------------------
Brenda
Skywatcher Pro 80ED
Synscan NEQ3
Meade DSI Pro
|
BillP
Postmaster
Reged: 11/26/06
Posts: 9093
Loc: Vienna, VA
|
|
Daniel,
Sadly I think you are correct in your observation that many parents do not teach their children proper manners and behavior in public. I have several children and it's important to me that they behave well both in public and at home. They are in their late teens now. I think it's just a result of the video-generation and both parents working generation...no time for manners it seems.
In any event, in a past life I used to be a sports photographer and did shoots for the team and individual pictures. When we did our shoots at elementary schools the kids behaved like you said, only with the camera equipment. What we did as a method that was quite effective was to lay bright red tape or plastic (like the police line markers) on the ground around the equipment, leaving an opening for a doorway. Most all readily obeyed the DO NOT CROSS THE LINE instructions. This way we kept them away from the equipment and they were able to easily know the "approved" walking path to where they were supposed to pose.
Seems to me this might also work at star parties. Just mark off the boundaries and a small passage to the eyepiece to view. You could also put red tape around the EP housing to further indicate Do Not Touch.
Kids have very short term attention...and even shorter these days. So the constant visual of the warning tape seems to help.
-Bill
--------------------
Bill
The KING: Any Eyepiece in the Focuser
The SUBJECTS: XT10i Dob---Meade 2080 SCT---TSA-102 S APO---Onyx 80EDF APO---SkyLight 60mm F15m---P.S.T.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. - Carl Sagan
|
cuzimthedad
Just Be Cuz
Reged: 04/09/06
Posts: 3985
Loc: Sonoma, Northern California
|
|
Hi Dan,
Don't give up on sharing the night skies with the public just yet. We have hosted to large star parties the past year and numerous smaller ones with all sorts of people attending. The very first thing I do is tell people about the scope, that it's a delicate instrument and that while it may look beefy, while it's tracking it can't be jostled. I don't allow parents to let their small children view by themselves and make a point of showing them how to look. Parents will usually hold their kids arms while the child looks through the ep and what I have found works well with kids is having a stool they can either stand or kneel on while viewing. I've thought about having a portable pole on a stand that one could hold onto for support while looking through the ep and may try it out at our next outting in November. So don't be affraid to lay out up front how you expect parents to handle their children around your expensive equipment. No less is expected at museum exhibits, air shows, car shows, etc...
--------------------
Dan
The Off Fisher Lane Irregulars
|
jsinon
sage
Reged: 06/20/07
Posts: 322
Loc: Farmington,NH
|
|
My wife and I took our daughter up to Waterville Valley, NH for a Curious George Festival a few months ago. At the Rey cottage saturday night they had an astronomy presentation. For those who don't know H A Rey (and his wife Margaret) who wrote the Curious George books was also an avid amatuer astronomer and wrote two books on the subject(that I know of). Anyway at the presentation this couple had two boys, one wouldn't shut up during the presentation and the other, when he wasn't trying to mess around with the video equipment, was making shadow animals etc on the screen. And mommy and daddy pretty much just ignored them. I just wanted to scream at the parents. When I was younger, I couldn't stand kids. It took me a while to realize that the reason there are so many disrespectfull punks out there is a serious lack of parenting. As the father of a 2 1/2 year old I know from experience that it would be a heck of a lot easier to say yes all the time, but I don't want her to turn out like an undisaplined brat who thinks the world owes her everything.
OK, enough ranting.
|
RobVG
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 836
Loc: Seattle Washington
|
|
Sounds like the kids were too young. It seems like Small children and Telescopes go together as well as kittens and keyboards. Personally I wouldn't bother sharing my scope with a child under 9. I don't think they have the interest or the attention span.
--------------------
C11 SGT(XLT)CG-5
Hinged Roof Observatory (archived)
|
jsinon
sage
Reged: 06/20/07
Posts: 322
Loc: Farmington,NH
|
|
I can't speek for the original poster, but the kids I was talking about, at least one if not both were in that age range.
--------------------
CPC 800XLT
JMI EV-3cM motorized focuser
OPT 2" Quartz Dielectric diagonal
24mm Panoptic
13mm t6 Nagler
9mm BO/TMB Planetary
The whole mess plus many extras is for sale. PM for details.
|
NeoDinian
Experienced Postmaster
Reged: 10/05/05
Posts: 14043
Loc: Rockford Illinois
|
|
As things START to get out of hand, I would announce to the PARENTS...
"This is an EXPENSIVE piece of equipment. I would appreciate it highly if the parents can keep their children in line, or noone will be able to see anything."
--------------------
Neo... (Jeff)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-
10" LX200-GPS/SMT UHTC "Draco"
 Rockford, Il.
NeoDinian's Eye on the Sky!
Coming soon:
|
RobVG
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/09/06
Posts: 836
Loc: Seattle Washington
|
|
Well maybe the cut-off should be 10.
Problem is, all kids and parents are different. My neighbor has two cetified ADHD boys (12+13) and I wouldn't dream of having both boys over for the same evening.
--------------------
C11 SGT(XLT)CG-5
Hinged Roof Observatory (archived)
|
Buck
professor emeritus
Reged: 04/29/05
Posts: 676
|
|
I usually announce "Excuse me folks but unattended children will be sold as slaves". I'm joking of course but it does get the attention of the parents.
Buck
|
cuzimthedad
Just Be Cuz
Reged: 04/09/06
Posts: 3985
Loc: Sonoma, Northern California
|
|
I don't know that age makes that big a difference. My neighbors daughter is 6 going on 7 and she has a deep interest in astronomy, wants to be an astronaut, and has all kinds of space stuff hanging from the ceiling of her bedroom. I know she is just one person but my experience is that it has more to do with parental control rather than age.
--------------------
Dan
The Off Fisher Lane Irregulars
|
cuzimthedad
Just Be Cuz
Reged: 04/09/06
Posts: 3985
Loc: Sonoma, Northern California
|
|
Quote:
I usually announce "Excuse me folks but unattended children will be sold as slaves". I'm joking of course but it does get the attention of the parents.
Buck
 I like that!
--------------------
Dan
The Off Fisher Lane Irregulars
|
Tombstone Sky
One-Eyed Jack
Reged: 12/18/06
Posts: 1712
Loc: Tombstone Arizona
|
|
I would think a "Please don't touch the telescope", followed by "Don't touch the telescope!", followed by "Step Back!!!" might work.
--------------------
MJ "Morg" Staley
--------------------
M5 Dark-Site Observatory
Meade 12" f/10 LX90GPS "River"
WO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Meade SP 5000 full set, 24mm Meade 5000 UWA,
BO/TMB Planetary 8, 9mm, Nagler 13mmT6
Meade 505/USB/ASU/SNP6
|
Star Gazer
sage
Reged: 05/25/07
Posts: 466
Loc: South Texas
|
|
For one, if you had children you would have had a better idea of what to expect. Secondly, you would have had a much better idea of how to handle them. I am not advocating you go make some kids, I am just saying as a father of a 6 year old and 11 month old I realize how much I learned from the first one to help me with the second. I am not excusing them or blaming you, what I am saying is you would know first hand how they got that way. And yes, it is basically mediocre parenting. I leave the poor parenting designation to the ones that didn't care enough to take them to such an event.
If every child, or almost every child grabbed the eyepiece it wasn't because they are bad kids, it is because they all had a natural tendency to do so (human nature rules). You could have insisted, and I do mean INSISTED the children put their hands behind their backs when viewing. And secondly, just stick to the moon (if it is out of course). I wouldn't try or expect to turn someone into an astronomer, I would just let them see something with their own eyes they have never seen before. The moon and all it craters. If you get a kid that is respectful and interested turn the scope to Jupiter or Saturn. I am not faulting you, I am just offering ideas.
Lastly, I seriously doubt your effort was a total loss. Especially if you get satisfaction from helping enlighten and broaden the horizons of a child. I promise you the life long effect it could have is worth putting up with the bad ones. Every single child is that important. After you have children of your own you will have a completely new respect for parents, parents of well behaved children, children, and well behaved children. They are a lot of work that starts the minute the bring them home from the hospital. So long sleep!
--------------------
Celestron CPC 9.25 GPS XLT
Stellarvue F50M 9x50 Finder
Canon 15 x 50 IS Binoculars
Edited by Star Gazer (09/15/07 02:13 PM)
|
WadeVC
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/02/05
Posts: 2834
Loc: Lodi, California,
|
|
Quote:
I'd teach them to be respectful and courteous and IMO it's just common sense.
Sadly, it isn't the kids who are to blame, but the parents. The unfortunate fact is that without the proper teachings of courtesy and respect, these children grow up not knowing any different.
Too many parents nowadays can barely take care of themselves, let alone children who are full of energy. As a parent who did teach our child to be courtious and respectful, I do not nor ever have found a uncontrolled, hyperactive or ill-mannered child to be cute nor something other people appreciate to be around.
A child is like a reflection in a mirror...they are a result of what they see around them. Unfortunately, the parents are the mirror...and the mirror in many cases is cracked. 
--------------------
Orion XTi10 f/4.7
Orion XTi8 f/5.9
Meade NGC 70mm f/10
Orion UltraView 10x50 Wide-Angle Binoculars
My Sketch Gallery
My Astronomy Blog
A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountain top.
|
Jim Rosenstock
Postmaster
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 6543
Loc: MD, south of the DC Nebula
|
|
Quote:
It was a good effort on your part. I'm sure it wasn't 100% wasted.
That's the important point, IMO.
I've done a lot of outreach programs, and have experienced a broad spectrum of ill-mannered children, parents, pets, teachers, etc....you just have to take it in stride...
...because there's always at least one kid at every program who gets it! The kid who hangs at your scope for a second (and maybe third) view, who quietly confides "when I grow up, I'm gonna be an astronaut"....the kid who keeps asking good questions while everybody else is bouncing off the walls (and everything else!)....
THAT's why most of us do outreach. Not for the ones who don't get it...but for the ones (sometimes the few) who do!
Clear skies,
Jim
|
|
0 registered and 4 anonymous users are browsing this forum.
Moderator: Jason B, ~Steph~
Print Thread
|
Forum Permissions
You cannot start new topics
You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled
UBBCode is enabled
|
Thread views: 1978
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
[Re: 