Talstarone
Lunar Man
Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 8153
Loc: Pinetops, NC
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I will have an oppertunity to buy a new scope/mount combo around the middle of November.
This is when Mars is really starting to be visible most of the night, and is growing in size, as well as the amount of detail it is showing. 
I was wondering if the 6inch Celestron Schmidt Cassegrain would be a good performer on Mars both visually as well as in imaging with a GSO 2.5X's Apochromatic 1 1/4 inch Barlow, and a Meade DSI-Color CCD Imager.
My budget will permit me to go to around $800.00 and I will have a couple of hundred dollars as well to add to the Celestron C-6.
I know the Celestron CG-5 Mount will be extremely sturdy and steady with the small 6 SCT tube mounted on top.
I am mostly a Planetary and Lunar Observer. I do gaze at some Deep Sky Targets every now and then,but most of my time will be found o the Planets or the Moon.
Is the C6 a good Lunar/Planetary Scope. If a SCT scope is not a good planetary scope does this mean I will have to go to a refractor to satisfy my needs?
Thanks for any and all information you have to share.
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Todd C.
My Eyes,My Heart,My Soul,and The Glory of God's Heaven.
Orion Mini Giant 15x63 Binoculars(Bogen Tripod)
William Optics ZenithStar 66 ED Refractor
Sky Watcher EQ5P GOTO EQMount (SynScan)
Meade Series 5000 Plossls(20/14/9mm)
Celestron X-Cel LX(12mm)
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 8913
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Todd,
The C6 is a pretty good planetary performer with the one caveat present for all SCTs ... good collimation. You have to be able to accurately collimate this scope before you draw any conclusions about it's performance. It's not hard to do, it just takes a little practice to get good at it.
You are right about the combination of the C6 and CG-5A being rock solid. If you really are primarily interested in solar system objects then honestly I'd consider the CG-5A or similar mount with a 5-6" mak. You'll pay a bit more for this type of package rather than the C6-ASGT from Celestron. The C6-ASGT package is very hard to beat at $999, for example the Orion 150 mak on an SVP goto mount is $1400.
Comparatively my C6 got "out gunned" by a very good 4" apo on Jupiter and Saturn, but that scope was more than 5x the price. I find that I prefer my C6 over 3-4" achro or semi apo scopes. I've never had it side by side with a mak but my views through a Meade 125 and Orion 150 were from memory very slightly better on the moon and Jupiter than my C6.
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Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Pier mounted CGE in a POD, and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - 350Da, DSI-P, SPC900, NexImage, Mallincam
Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should
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Patrick
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 10382
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
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Todd,
I have to pretty much agree with Mark. There are many good aspects to the C6...I really like mine and it has served me well. I do think that the C6 can hold it's own against any 5" or 6" achromatic refractor mainly because of the chromatic aberrations. I would say that compared to a 4" APO, they would be very similar for planetary views, but the C6 can go deeper on DSOs.
The thing I like about my C6 is the total package. Lightweight, excellent optics, nice light grasp on a goto mount that's rock solid. However, it is a compromise scope...no question about that. A 6" f/8 Newtonian will produce better planetary images, but it's a lot bigger. A 4" APO will produce great planetary views too, but it's expensive (and fairly long also) and it has less light grasp.
Have you considered a 6" f/8 Newtonian on a CG5 mount? I had one for a time and it worked out pretty well. The CG5 held the Newt without too much trouble. If you do any imaging your camera will most likely not be too heavy (I assume you'd be using a webcam). Ah well...just a thought.
Patrick
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CPC1100;AT66ED;Denk S1;
EdgeHD C8; C6 SCT
6"f/4.8MN ES Comet Hunter
10"f/6 Newt
Vixen GP2;CGEM Mount
Canon 60D;Lodestar Guider
The Lord sits enthroned above the circle of the earth...He stretched out the heavens like a canopy.
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Patrick
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 10382
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
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Todd,
One other thing I just thought about concerning the C6S and imaging. SCT's have been used for a long time with good results for planetary imaging and I don't think the C6 should be any acception. One of the reasons I bought the C6 was because of it's versatility in doing planetary imaging.
Patrick
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CPC1100;AT66ED;Denk S1;
EdgeHD C8; C6 SCT
6"f/4.8MN ES Comet Hunter
10"f/6 Newt
Vixen GP2;CGEM Mount
Canon 60D;Lodestar Guider
The Lord sits enthroned above the circle of the earth...He stretched out the heavens like a canopy.
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Talstarone
Lunar Man
Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 8153
Loc: Pinetops, NC
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I would like to say Thank You to both Mark and Patrick for such outstanding advice.
I was thinking of the 6inch Schmidt due to its small size and ability to capture extremely great detail and contrast in both Planetary and Deep Space Imaging.
I am interested to hear about how often the SCT mirror and lens system has to be collimated.
Again,Thank You Patrick for sharing your knowledge on the workings of the C6-SGT XLT.I am very Thankful and was hopeing you would see this post and lend a hand.
And Thank You,Mark for letting me lnow that good collimation is needed and in comparing with other scopes,letting me see just exactally how they compare.
It has been both an honor and an extremely helpful thread so far with the exceptional posts that both Patrick and Mark have left.
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Todd C.
My Eyes,My Heart,My Soul,and The Glory of God's Heaven.
Orion Mini Giant 15x63 Binoculars(Bogen Tripod)
William Optics ZenithStar 66 ED Refractor
Sky Watcher EQ5P GOTO EQMount (SynScan)
Meade Series 5000 Plossls(20/14/9mm)
Celestron X-Cel LX(12mm)
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Stelios
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/04/03
Posts: 1484
Loc: West Hills, CA
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The advantage of the C6S-GT is that it's reasonably priced (with the underrated CG-5 mount), really portable, and does have a fair amount of power.
I know little about imaging that is not second hand info, so I'll pass on that. Visually however, I think a 4" ED APO will beat it on the planets, although in theory it shouldn't. The problem is that theory assumes PERFECT collimation, and although it's easy to get collimation pretty close (in SCT's, unlike Newtonians, all you collimate is the secondary mirror) it requires perfect seeing, skill and patience to get it *perfect*.
Good collimation will yield a pretty decent performer, make no mistake. But an APO will be uncompromising and also will offer superior widefield performance, not hampered by the long focal length. Portability would be comparable. Of course the APO would cost a bit more, but several can be found secondhand.
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APM/TMB 115/805 APO
9.25S - GT
Naglers: 17T4, 13T6, 3-6 zoom
UWANs: 28mm, 7mm
Pentax 10XW, 10mm Radian
Misc EP: 50mm Parks, 42mm GSO, 2x TV Barlow
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 8913
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Notice a couple of nice M15 shots in September's DSLR challenge were taken with C6-ASGTs. I think they held up well against the bigger (10-11" SCTs) and much more expensive (apos) scopes. M15 contest
Just goes to show you what good light weight optics on a nice solid (and as Stelios say underrated) mount can do. Oh, and in the hands of some folks who know what they are doing.
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Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Pier mounted CGE in a POD, and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - 350Da, DSI-P, SPC900, NexImage, Mallincam
Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should
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mattyfatz
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/27/06
Posts: 2111
Loc: Boise Idaho
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Todd,
I'm about to buy one as well. The 6"sct is the perfect all around scope for me. It has enough performance to get the job done, and it is still portable. I have not read a single negative review on CN yet. I am also going to get the Vixen R130SF on the Portamount... this will give me 2 interchangable scopes on two mounts. I'll have Go-to and AP capability as well as Grab and Go. It should be a nice combo.
The C6-SGT is a great deal right now. I don't know if the price will stay that low given its popularity.
Matty
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**Matty**
Stimulating the economy, one piece of equipment at a time.   
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Talstarone
Lunar Man
Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 8153
Loc: Pinetops, NC
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I Must offer my Thanks to Matty,Mark,and Stelios.
All of you have provided me with outstanding information. It does appear as if this scope does have a considerable amount of Outstanding Features and a Well Though Out Design.
I Love the facts that it is as Solid as a Rock as well as being a Great AstroPhotography Capabilities.
This is certainly going to be a Hard Choice betweed this scope and the Meade AR-5 Refractor on the LXD-75 Mount.
The two biggest drawbacks I see for the 6 inch Schmidt is having to collimate it(how often and how percise?)and does it vigenette 2inch eyepieces and accessories as most other SCT scopes seem to?
I do consider myself being Very Blessed to Have Such Great Members who are helping me see the good points of both scopes out of the goodness of their generous Hearts.
Thank You All for the outstanding help and opinions you supply.Iam just Happy that I have about a Month to listen to everyone's thoughts and points.
So I see myself laying in Bed and thinking over my choices, and pondering all the Good Points of each scope. Again,Thank You All!
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Todd C.
My Eyes,My Heart,My Soul,and The Glory of God's Heaven.
Orion Mini Giant 15x63 Binoculars(Bogen Tripod)
William Optics ZenithStar 66 ED Refractor
Sky Watcher EQ5P GOTO EQMount (SynScan)
Meade Series 5000 Plossls(20/14/9mm)
Celestron X-Cel LX(12mm)
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 8913
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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Frequency of collimation? Well it depends on how you treat the scope and in general if you transport it around. I'm quite careful with my C6, it has a soft case when it's in the house but most of the time it's on it's mount. I check collimation whenever I use it and actually touch up the collimation maybe once a month. By touch up I mean give one or two screws a very slight turn and that's it ... a two minute job. The smaller C6 travels much better than my C11. Bounce them both around in the back of a car and the C6 might need a minute or two, the C11 usually needs about 5 minutes of attention.
In general collimation is really a non issue for me. 30 years ago I used a Cave 10" F5 newtonian ... now collimating that scope without the tools we have today, well let's just say I don't have fond memories.
Vignetting with 2" eyepieces? Well yes, since the rear opening of a C6 is around 27mm so you're not going to get all you can out of 2" eyepieces. Is it a big deal, nope. There are however many fine folks with C6s who use 2" eyepieces and enjoy them just fine.
Personally I keep my C6 simple and light weight. I generally use a 1.25" mirror diagonal and eyepieces. The lowest power setup I use is a 32mm plossl (48x 1.1º), the highest is normally 170x with a BO/TMB 9mm planetary. Wide fields, well I go to an AT80ED scope for that, with a 40mm Paragon I get an almost 5º FOV.
If the seeing is really good I'll go with a 15mm plossl and a 2 or 2.5x barlow (200-250x). The most used eyepiece though is a 13mm T6 Nagler (117x .7º), it's great on just about everything that fits in the FOV. Occasionally an OIII filter gets used as well and that's about it. I don't normally use the F6.3 focal reducer except for imaging and at a focal length of 950mm it's just about a perfect match in image scale (1.5-2 arcsec/pixel) for good seeing conditions.
At 10lbs, with a vixen dovetail and the short 16" tube you can mount it on just about anything. Good optics gives nice planetary views and enough aperture to enjoy hundreds of DSOs. At F10 you can use just about any type of eyepiece. With SCT threads you can mount all kinds of accessories. It also does very well as an F6.3 imaging platform. I'm not sure that there is a better all round scope in it's price range.
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Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Pier mounted CGE in a POD, and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - 350Da, DSI-P, SPC900, NexImage, Mallincam
Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should
Edited by mclewis1 (10/04/07 05:19 PM)
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Talstarone
Lunar Man
Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 8153
Loc: Pinetops, NC
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A Big Thank You,Mark.Your Post explained even more then I expected.
I am extremely careful with my Astronomy Equipment so that wont be too big of an issue. Maybe it would need the occasional screw turn,but from the sound of your post I should be in good shape,overall.
I am Thankful To all who have replied on this post. I have learned quite a bit on this thread, and am excited I have.
So,once again,I must say Thank You.
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Todd C.
My Eyes,My Heart,My Soul,and The Glory of God's Heaven.
Orion Mini Giant 15x63 Binoculars(Bogen Tripod)
William Optics ZenithStar 66 ED Refractor
Sky Watcher EQ5P GOTO EQMount (SynScan)
Meade Series 5000 Plossls(20/14/9mm)
Celestron X-Cel LX(12mm)
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Dave Hederich
sage
Reged: 09/12/07
Posts: 396
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I want to thank you as well, Mark.
Like most CNers, I always have "future upgrade" in the back of my mind, and am always interested in reading the diverse opinions of many different users. The passionate opinions of some refractor and Dob folks can be especially compelling.
However, the one scope that always seems to rise to the top as the perfect upgrade to my present 102mm Mak is the C6. It seems to offer the largest, most versatile and best quality package at a reasonable price that fits my needs for portability and ease of transportation and quick setup.
I'll spend days thinking that this refractor, that Dob or a different Mak or SCT might have an edge here or there. But I always come back to the C6.
You summed it all up from the perspective of someone who has lived with a C6 and experienced it all firsthand.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm f/9.8 Achromat + GSO 2" Dielectric Diagonal
Tasco StarGuide 4 102mm f/13 Mak + NexStar 60GT Mount
Orion ST80 f/5 Achromat
Stellarvue BV3 Binoviewer + Burgess 1.9X OCA + SV23mm EPs
GSO 1.25" & Astro-Tech 2" 2X Barlows
Astro-Tech 38mm Titan, Orion 9mm & 20mm Expanse
Pentax 20x60 PCF WP II Binocular
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Patrick
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/03
Posts: 10382
Loc: Franklin, Ohio
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Quote:
This is certainly going to be a Hard Choice betweed this scope and the Meade AR-5 Refractor on the LXD-75 Mount.
To me this is an easy choice because chromatic aberration annoys me greatly. In addition the AR-5 will be taxing the LXD75 mount compared to the C6. Also, the AR-5 is not a good imaging scope because of the CA.
Quote:
The two biggest drawbacks I see for the 6 inch Schmidt is having to collimate it(how often and how percise?)and does it vigenette 2inch eyepieces and accessories as most other SCT scopes seem to?
One of the first things to buy for the C6S should be a set of Bob's Knobs. They're inexpensive and very easy to install. Once you have them in place, adjusting collimation is quite easy.
Regarding 2" eyepieces, I use a 38mm 70° 2" eyepiece without any vignetting that's detectable to my eye. That gives me about a 1.5° TFOV.
Note: After rereading this I realized I'm being too hard on the AR-5. By all accounts it's a pretty decent scope with a slightly longer focal length than the average 6" f/8, which helps on the CA. However, for the stated intended purposes, I think the C6 would be a better choice.
Patrick
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CPC1100;AT66ED;Denk S1;
EdgeHD C8; C6 SCT
6"f/4.8MN ES Comet Hunter
10"f/6 Newt
Vixen GP2;CGEM Mount
Canon 60D;Lodestar Guider
The Lord sits enthroned above the circle of the earth...He stretched out the heavens like a canopy.
Edited by Patrick (10/05/07 06:48 AM)
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Dave Mason
sage
Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 202
Loc: Scottish Borders, UK
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As a complete newbie I had some trepidation about collimation of the C6 but with Bob's Knobs it is as Patrick says, pretty easy. Installing them was straightforward and a couple of minutes' tweaking usually takes me to the limit of my local seeing. I do that once every couple of weeks, although I suspect it will hold collimation longer than that if you're more careful than me carting it around.
What I like about this setup is that it is rock solid on the tripod/mount, yet still light enough for most folks to simply pick up and carry without dismantling. The hardest part is getting it through the doorways in my house without taking lumps out the frame, but I'm no Arnie and I find it pretty easy to carry about.
I'm harking after a small refractor now too, and the celestron ed80 will slot on there nicely with the same dovetail setup.
Cheers,
Dave
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Talstarone
Lunar Man
Reged: 09/12/06
Posts: 8153
Loc: Pinetops, NC
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Thank You Both Patrick and Dave.
I do see where you are coming from in both of your replies. It does seem that the C6 will be incredibly more stable then Tha Meade AR-5 or the Celestron C-150 achromatic refractor.
And now that it seems that collimation will be much easier with Bob's Knobs,I am feeling much more comfortable in the C-6.
Though I will also say that the Celestron NexStar SE series looks very inviting as well with the nice rebates they are offering.
I can get the the NexStar 6SE for $749.00 after the rebate. So I may look in this direction. I am curious as too what I will be giving up beyween the NexStar 6SE and the C6SGT-XLT.
And Again Thank You Patrick and Dave for offering such great advice.
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Todd C.
My Eyes,My Heart,My Soul,and The Glory of God's Heaven.
Orion Mini Giant 15x63 Binoculars(Bogen Tripod)
William Optics ZenithStar 66 ED Refractor
Sky Watcher EQ5P GOTO EQMount (SynScan)
Meade Series 5000 Plossls(20/14/9mm)
Celestron X-Cel LX(12mm)
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coopman
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/23/06
Posts: 2892
Loc: South Louisiana
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How long does cool down take with a C6 or a 5"-6" Mak? I've always had reservations about this issue because I'm more of a "grab & go" type of observer and really can't leave a scope outside unattended while it cools down. I guess that I could take out my C80ED and use it while the Cat cools down a few steps away though.
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Regards,
Clay
"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Psalms 19:1
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 8913
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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For something like 10 - 15º differences I find that 30 - 60 minutes works well. I do two things in the mean time ... use the 80mm scope that's mounted in tandem with my C6 or just keep the magnification down on the C6. I don't use any forced air cooling on my C6 like I do with my C11. I am considering modifying my home made scope cooler so that I can swap out the long tube for a narrower one that fits the C6. This would help when the temperature difference is more that the 10-15º mentioned.
Most of the time though I get the scopes out around twilight and after getting everything setup I'm just looking around, enjoying the last of the twilight, maybe having a look with a pair of binoculars and then thinking about what I'm going to go looking for. By this time the sky is quite dark and the scope is much closer to thermal equilibrium. It's very rare that I'm actually waiting for the C6 to cool down.
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Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Pier mounted CGE in a POD, and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - 350Da, DSI-P, SPC900, NexImage, Mallincam
Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should
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Tokyo Smith
super member
Reged: 07/30/07
Posts: 108
Loc: Outskirts of Tokyo, Japan
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I've had my C6 for about a month and a half. I checked the collimination recently and its still in. I have a set of Bob's knobs but haven't installed them yet. The first time that it becomes necessary to colliminate the tube I will install the knobs. The C6 is a great all around scope.
Greg
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Celestron Nexstar C6 SE
Astro-Tech Dielectric Diagonal
9mm & 15mm Vixen Lanthanium oculars
25mm Celestron E-lux Plossl
Ultima Barlow
and a growing list of other stuff....
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Dave Mason
sage
Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 202
Loc: Scottish Borders, UK
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Quote:
I can get the the NexStar 6SE for $749.00 after the rebate. So I may look in this direction. I am curious as too what I will be giving up beyween the NexStar 6SE and the C6SGT-XLT.
The Nexstar will set up quicker and give a more comfortable viewing position. I think it is also a bit lighter. Hving said that the C6 doesn't take long to set up but you need to at least roughly polar align it which takes a few more minutes. If you want to get into photography the GEM mount will make that a simpler task unless you're shooting very short frames of the planets etc.
Optically, I think they are the same OTA so should be identical.
Having now owned the C6 for a few months, I would go for the nexstar if it's for visual only. I think all round it would be simpler to cart around and set up.
Cheers,
Dave
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Dave Mason
sage
Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 202
Loc: Scottish Borders, UK
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Forgot to add - If you went for the nexstar then you would also be giving up the ability to put different OTAs on your mount - this was the factor that swung it for me in choosing the C6. A small refractor looms large in my future!
Cheers,
Dave
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