Wmacky
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/24/07
Posts: 1014
Loc: Florida
|
|
Hello!
I recently posted in the Cass forum my intentions to re enter the world of Telescopes after a 12 year lapse. My initial requirements were just a large quality SCT for visual use and a little imaging. My pick was the Atlas mount / C11 package deal. After more reading this weekend I feel I may have been premature.
I now want to get heavily involved in imaging, but still want some visual light gathering ability. After 15 hours reading yesterday, I feel the best choice for a semi budget "do everything setup" would be the SCT / Atlas combo with a Orion 60mm APO riding piggyback?
Here's the issue: The Atlas! I'm concerrned I will be pushing it with a C 11 and piggybacked APO. Must I drop back to a C 9.25 to reduce the load? I'd rather hace the C11! Upgrading from the Atlas is not an option. I'm really sold on it, and the next price jump up is astronomical! 
The Bad part...... Orion offers no package deal for a C9.25 Combo. Buying separate I only get a very small price cut, but lose huge amounts of gathering power. That really seems like a shame! There has to be a better way.
Even though my research has only been for 3 days, I feel I really know what I want and need. I'm ready to buy now, But this weight issue has me held up. Please comment with your thoughts! 
|
yg1968
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 1859
|
|
There is only 8 pounds of difference between the C11 and the C9.25. The Atlas would be pushed to the limit with a C11 but at least you have the option of switching the OTA with an Orion 80ED, WO 66SD or a similar scope for imaging.
|
Wmacky
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/24/07
Posts: 1014
Loc: Florida
|
|
I know swapping is an option, but i'd rather piggyback. What are my SCT Options when going this route with the Orion 80mm ed APO?
If the C9.25 is doable in this setup, Does anyone know of a Atlas/C9.25 Package deal that would be less expensive that going with separates?
Edited by Wmacky (11/26/07 08:05 PM)
|
yg1968
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 1859
|
|
They are not offered as a package. But it's not much more expensive to get them seperatelly. To piggyback a guide scope, you could use the following mini-dovetail system:
http://www.astro.premcom.com/ADM/ADM%20Products/MDS%20Description.htm
For the Orion 80ED, you would need 125mm rings. For the WO66SD, you would need 100mm rings.
For imaging, you could use the 9.25 inch or 11 inch SCT but obviously the less weight you put on the mount, the better.
|
Wmacky
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/24/07
Posts: 1014
Loc: Florida
|
|
Thanks for the response. I read about the ADM rings, and had decided to add them to the list. So i'm all set on the Mount, Guide / widefield scope, and rings. I have to admit, i'm still debating between the the 2 SCT sizes. I guess I need someone to say "NO" don't do it! I've seen some pics that indicate some of the members here are using the C11 / Atlas / Piggyback 80 ED combo. I realize though that they all could be regretting it! I did find a C9.25 OTA a little cheaper from Skyunlimited.com. Anyway thanks for the imput. It's alot of cash for me, and I don't want to make a huge mistake. My last telescope was a 10" Meade Starfinder, and it was a big undermounted mistake. I want no repeats!! 
Edited by Wmacky (11/26/07 11:25 PM)
|
Arkalius
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/03/06
Posts: 925
Loc: Orange County, CA, USA
|
|
A C11 with an 80ED piggyback on an Atlas is doable but you'd probably want to find a better tripod or use a pier. The tripod is truly the weak point of the atlas. It isn't horrible, it does the job well enough but it isn't the most sturdy thing under a lot of weight.
I use a C11 on my Atlas and have a *BLEEP* celestron firstscope 60 that I piggyback on it for guiding. I'ts lighter than an 80ED and I get the feeling I'm pushing the limits with this setup. I have to put the 33lbs of counterweights at the end of the shaft for this to work too.
--------------------
-Arkalius
11" Celestron SCT on Orion Atlas EQ-G
Celestron 100ED Refractor
8" Zhumell Dobsonian Reflector
|
Wmacky
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/24/07
Posts: 1014
Loc: Florida
|
|
Let me now ask the magical question.If you could do it over, would you have gone with the 9.25? The price difference is only about $300 less BTW
I have calculated that the 9.25 + 80ED + Rings weigh about the same as the C11 alone.
If I can just get my head around this decision, I can put in the dang order tomorrow!! 
BTW I starting to get nervous and leaning toward the C9.25. I'd love more Visual ability, But imaging is now a priority!
Edited by Wmacky (11/27/07 12:35 AM)
|
Mike D
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 08/15/07
Posts: 864
Loc: South GA
|
|
Do NOT get the C11!
You will still be able to get awesomely resolved views of globs, planets, and enough aperture to keep you occupied as long as you stay interested in the hobby. And its not only the lighter weight of the C9.25 but also the shorter focal length and smaller central obstruction. Starting out imaging with a 3000mm scope is an INCREDIBLY difficult way to start out.
But get a C9.25 with a 12.5mm illuminated reticle EP and you can guide the 80ED with minimal headache.
--------------------
Vixen SXD
Vixen ED80Sf
Hutech 350D
STI Stiletto
Meade 2080
|
yg1968
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 1859
|
|
There is an 8 pounds difference between the two scopes. The focal lenght of the C11 is 2800. The focal lenght of the C9.25 is 2350. Either way, you will need a focal reducer to reduce the focal lenght in order to image. If you are concerned about the weight, a C6 or C8 perhaps makes more sense.
|
jrcrilly
Refractor wienie no more
Reged: 04/30/03
Posts: 30716
Loc: NE Ohio
|
|
Quote:
smaller central obstruction.
No. Until the recent introduction of the 6" model, the C9.25 enjoyed the position of having the largest central obstruction percentage of any Celestron SCT. The 6" just barely edges it out.
--------------------
John C
Battle Cry of Reno
http://www.wadsworthobservatory.com
My Cloudy Nights gallery
AT12RC
AT65EDQ
QSI683WSG-8
Roper Scientific Quantix 6303E "project" camera
mystery EQ mount on the way
|
Wmacky
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/24/07
Posts: 1014
Loc: Florida
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
smaller central obstruction.
No. Until the recent introduction of the 6" model, the C9.25 enjoyed the position of having the largest central obstruction percentage of any Celestron SCT. The 6" just barely edges it out.
|
benvegas
super member
Reged: 09/15/07
Posts: 112
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
|
|
Here's a picture of my CPC1100 XLT with an Orion ED80 with the ADM 125mm rings and ADM weight system. Weak link: AltAz mount.
-Ben
--------------------
Astronomically Uneducated since September 14th 2007
Celestron CPC 1100 XLT
Orion 80mm ED
Sony Alpha a100 DSLR
el'cheapo Meade DSI
|
Richard Scott
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 935
Loc: Tampa FL
|
|
Get the C11!
You will never regret it, get something smaller, and you may.
I don’t have the Atlas mount, hope to someday, but I do have a C11 and an ED80 piggybacked on a CG-5 using the ADM mounting system. I use a pier, but I can and do make it work for imaging with the tripod as well.
If you balance well, taking your mount to the weight limit and beyond is very doable.
Richard
--------------------
C-11 SCT
Orion ED80
NEQ-6 Pro GEM w/Losmandy Saddle
JMI NGF-CM, Orion AccuFocus Focusers
SBIG ST-3800M with FW8-8300
Meade DSI Pro
Orion SSDSI
all tucked inside the Blue Moon Observatory
Basically more stuff than my abilities warrant
"I know I can never look upon the stars without wondering why the whole world does not become astronomers."
Thomas Wright
|
glofilter
member
Reged: 11/26/07
Posts: 28
|
|
Woo. That photo hurts just looking at it!
|
glofilter
member
Reged: 11/26/07
Posts: 28
|
|
Oh, by the way. If you want to get "heavily involved" with imaging, you're breaking the first, second, and third priorities of imaging.
The first priority of imaging is your mount.
Second, your mount. Third, your mount.
I'd rather have a Tak EM200 and a 2 Kmart scopes to image with than a fork mounted 11" SCT. Ok, maybe not Kmart, but you get the idea. Do yourself a favor- start with a short FL refractor or newt on a stout (i.e. expensive) mount. You won't be sorry.
|
yg1968
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 1859
|
|
He also wants a good visual scope. For visual use or planetary imaging, the bigger the scope the better. The Orion 80ED is only 5.7 pounds to the SCT. So it's not not a big deal to add 5.7 pounds. A 60mm APO would weight even less, I imagine. My advice is to image with an Orion 80ED. But you could also use the SCT for imaging with a focal reducer.
|
Richard Scott
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 935
Loc: Tampa FL
|
|
Quote:
Woo. That photo hurts just looking at it!
Yea, they laughed at the Wright Brothers too, but they made that bird fly.
Richard
--------------------
C-11 SCT
Orion ED80
NEQ-6 Pro GEM w/Losmandy Saddle
JMI NGF-CM, Orion AccuFocus Focusers
SBIG ST-3800M with FW8-8300
Meade DSI Pro
Orion SSDSI
all tucked inside the Blue Moon Observatory
Basically more stuff than my abilities warrant
"I know I can never look upon the stars without wondering why the whole world does not become astronomers."
Thomas Wright
|
lineman_16735
Tak-o-holic
Reged: 12/04/04
Posts: 3118
Loc: Central PA
|
|
Quote:
Oh, by the way. If you want to get "heavily involved" with imaging, you're breaking the first, second, and third priorities of imaging.
The first priority of imaging is your mount.
Second, your mount. Third, your mount.
I could not agree more. I started down the same road bought a few Meade mounts first. I was getting an occasional decent/good result imaging but a lot of frustration as well. So I bought an expensive apo. I was still frustrated with my images even though I had a nice scope. So I bought a G-11...much better but after a while I wanted a better guiding mount. So finally after years of trying to break the 3 rules I decided to get an NJP. Well I can honestly say now that I wish I would have gotten a excellent mount to begin with. The best scope in the world is nothing more than a paper weight (some are very big paper weights) without a proper mount. If you or anyone else for that matter are serious about imaging then a quality mount should be the first thing you consider. If you want a big visual scope you can always buy a dob and put a set of rings on it and mount it. If you are really serious about imaging please do yourself a favor and get a quality mount. When I say quality I would put the G-11/CGE at the bottom of the list of serious mounts for imaging. If I had to do it all over knowing what I know now an EM-200 would be my first mount. It is more expensive than a G-11/CGE but it is much more accurate and almost if not as strong as a G-11/CGE. I'm not trying to bash the Atlas or other similar offerings but, they are just in a different league than the EM-200. Good luck and enjoy.
--------------------
Chris
X-Astronomer
|
nofxrx
Vendor (HyperCams & Mods)
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 4861
Loc: Palm Bay,Florida
|
|
I second that!!!!
Go for broke with the mount first...then worry about what glass to put on it...
I have been trying to save the cash for myself to move up to an AP1200 but will probably not be able to for a couple of years,for now the CI-700(predecessor to the CGE) will have to cut it..
my 
--------------------
Brent Oliver
1 Loving Wife with a bun in the oven, and 3 dogs!
HyperCams&MODS
BLOG
My Gallery
|
Wmacky
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 11/24/07
Posts: 1014
Loc: Florida
|
|
Well this is all a little depressing.........
It would seem that the only "good option" For the C11 / 80ED Apo otion would be this:
http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=1-599-49-56-3214
At least shipping is free. I just don't know if my finances or marriage could take that hit. There would be no money for anything else including eyepeices for a very long time. I know someones about to tell be I will get poor proformance because even the CGE will be overloaded.
BTW: the only other setup that does it for me is the first refractor shown at this ADM site:
http://www.astro.premcom.com/ADM/ADM%20Products/MDS%20Description.htm
I'm sure that would be many times more expensive than the C11 CGE setup!
Needless to say I didn't make the purchase today......
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit
Reply
Quote
