BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 4391
Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
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Warning: What you may choose to download is a BillC opinion given in a BillC—take no prisoners—manner. If you believe that all opinions concerning binoculars are equally accurate, you should delete this PDF immediately!!
Zero effort has been made to offend ANYONE! Maximum effort has been made to hit these points hard enough to have them remembered by anyone thinking of swinging their credit cards at the cheap binocular market, because, based on what I’m seeing more and more of these days, most CN members just MAY be overlooking a point or two that, perhaps, they shouldn’t.
As you oldies will note, the subject of instrument quality comes up FREQUENTLY, and since most newbies rarely read most of the questions that have been answered a thousand times already, friction can arise between those who think you are an over-paid idiot for buying quality goods and those who don’t.
Well, this is directed to the pure in heart who have been bombed lately with all wonderful deals awaiting them on the internet. I, for one, believe in saving a buck EVERY TIME I can! I live in the Seattle area and don’t work for Boeing or Microsoft. Thus, I do love a good pot of Great Northern . . . BEANS! . . . Frequently!
This is offered as a PDF so that I am not going to get sucked into a peeing match with those who need to make sport of me, knowing that the moderators will slap my hand or worse if I try to defend myself. Remember, if you are afraid to learn new things or consider things you have yet to consider, please stop reading now.
For the rest of you: Bless you and have a wonderful weekend.
Cheers,
Bill
P.S. As you read the PDF, please remember I’m a writer and editor . . . not a proofreader!
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Ophthalmic Tech, Naval Station, Everett, WA
Optical Mechanic, Puget Sound Naval Shipyard
Founder, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
21-year Mgr., Optics Dept., Captain's Nautical Supplies
Optics Mechanic, Ft. Lewis, WA.
Contributing Editor for Numerous Magazines
It's better to be a "has been" than a "never was." But only barely; the pay is about the same!
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eklf
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 1207
Loc: Carrboro, NC
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BillC,
Many thanks for taking the time, effort, and caring for the issues in writing the document. It is very informational, as many of your previous posts have been.
Regards,
Kumar
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Clear Skies/Kumar
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Scanning4Comets
Markus
Reged: 12/26/04
Posts: 10114
Loc: Deep Space!
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I agree 100%. Thanks for taking the time to post this informative information Bill.
And I can't forget, have a great holiday season as well Bill. 
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Markus
10" F/4.7 Modified Skywatcher Reflector, 38mm Orion Q70, 22mm Vixen LVW, 14mm Denkmeier, 10mm Pentax XW, 7mm Pentax XW, 5mm Vixen LVW, 2" GSO 2x ED Barlow, 2" DGM O-III, Custom Laminated Star Charts, Uranometria 2000 Custom made maps with custom made rotating map holder, Astro Cards, Seen All Messier, Hundreds of NGC, Working on Herschel 400, Star hopper for over 30 yrs.
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mark22c
sage
Reged: 08/12/07
Posts: 343
Loc: cornwall UK
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sound advise bill as allways though as you say some wont like it.
i have to wonder at the coments made by some about not being able to afford "quality optics" and what if you can only goto say... $70 bucks? personaly i think its more a case of "i can buy it now" and with so many bins on the market at that price or indead lower the temptation can be strong and once you have bought "said bins" take very strongly to any critisism about your "choice" of purchase as though it is some kind of attack on you ability to make a good desision, of course you then go on to strongly defend your purchase blind or ignorant to the defects therin leading others to make the same choice purchasing the same product!... kind of like the story "the emperors new clothes" it happens all the time and its happened to me
trouble is when you realise this and tell others they dont want to know.
what happened to patients and good old fashioned saveing? if you simply must have a pair of bins and $70 bucks is all you have buying the biggest bins you can get at the cheapest price seems idiotic to me.
maybe if you ould put a few dollers a week away in a pot(including that $70) and spent the next few months going out and looking through all the bins you can no matter what the price it might be possible to understand why cheap bins and some "overpriced" kit is slated so bad and by the time youve found a pair that fit and are of real quality you may actually be able to afford them if you stop buying all the cheap rubish because "its all you can afford"... if only i could go back in time and tell myself this i wouldnt be stuck with all the rubish i have and would probably have close to £500 in my pot... good advise is sometimes hard to take.
thanks bill
regards mark
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opticron "imagic" BGA SE 8x42 roof's
10x42 roof's
meade/bresser (lidl) 10x50 porro's
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JimW
professor emeritus
Reged: 08/31/04
Posts: 696
Loc: Mansfield, Texas
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Bill,
I rarely post here, as I am a lurker who has been trying to educate myself before making the step up to premium binoculars.
Thank you for your intelligent and insightful posting. The decision to invest in quality goods can be a complex one. Right now I am considering Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski; and thanks to the expertise here on CN, I am actually enjoying the evaluation and decision process!
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Jim Walsh
18" Obsession UC #1 AN/SC
SV90T (Stardust Blue)
DM-6 mount (on order)
PST
Leupold Wind River 8x42
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 17931
Loc: Oort Cloud 9
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Excellent write-up Bill. And so so true.
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
☄ ⒼⒶⓁⒶⒸⓉⒾⒸ ⓈⓉⓄⓃⒺ ☞ www.galactic-stone.com
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 4391
Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
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"and thanks to the expertise here on CN, I am actually enjoying the evaluation and decision process!" --Jim W.
Thank YOU! You and Mike are kind.
I enjoy the process, too, right down to the money part. 'Though often pegged as an "elitist," money does not grow on trees in my yard, either.
But, I'm from the old school and have three special skills--
1) The ability save
2) The ability to be patient
3) The ability to seperate the steak from the BS BEFORE spending my money.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Ophthalmic Tech, Naval Station, Everett, WA
Optical Mechanic, Puget Sound Naval Shipyard
Founder, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
21-year Mgr., Optics Dept., Captain's Nautical Supplies
Optics Mechanic, Ft. Lewis, WA.
Contributing Editor for Numerous Magazines
It's better to be a "has been" than a "never was." But only barely; the pay is about the same!
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eklf
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 1207
Loc: Carrboro, NC
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Quote:
But, I'm from the old school and have three special skills--
1) The ability save
2) The ability to be patient
3) The ability to seperate the steak from the BS BEFORE spending my money.
Well Said! This should be the mantra, not only for Binoculars, but for most things worth having! Its also something that I have failed to acquire, but neverthless aspire to, and one day..I shall be there. 
CS/ Kumar
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Clear Skies/Kumar
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jekincaid
member
Reged: 02/21/05
Posts: 13
Loc: IL, USA
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Bill...Always enjoy and learn from your knowledge, wisdom, and experience (did that feel good?). I am curious if you could expand on the theory behind the slotted prisms reducing glare in porro designs. Definitely something new to me. Thanks again for casting your pearl before the...lol.
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John
Parks 6" F/6 and 10" F/5
Celestron C-5
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Jimbo100
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/26/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: Oxford, UK.
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Quote:
The ability to seperate the steak from the BS !
I like that, ...hadn't heard it before! 
It's nice to see you back posting, Bill - if only for a 'one off' (?).
Also, thank you for sharing (in your PDF) some of the important design and build points that go into making a truly 'good quality' binocular - which I would guess that most of us (even some of the more educated users) weren't actually aware of.
(I will include myself in that list, because while I know a lot of the 'things' to look out for when choosing a binocular, I didn't necessarily know the reasons why they occur, or how exactly they affect things.)
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 4391
Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
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Quote:
Bill...Always enjoy and learn from your knowledge, wisdom, and experience (did that feel good?). I am curious if you could expand on the theory behind the slotted prisms reducing glare in porro designs. Definitely something new to me. Thanks again for casting your pearl before the...lol.
Thank you.
At a “critical angle”—which is different in different materials—the light is no longer being reflected. Instead, it will run along the surface of an element. By slotting the Porro prisms, this stray light runs into a slot (barrier) that can prevent it from leaving the entering prism face and showing up in the exiting prism face. This reduces contrast robbing glare.
You will see 3 lines in the PDF Image. “A” is the slot itself; “B” is the apex as seen through the base; “C” is the reflection of the slot.
Hope this helps.
Bill
I never cast my pearls before the ". . ." I don't look at them as such, even when they are trying to take their neighbors down non-productive roads. However, the Texas phrase: "Big hat; no cattle," does sometimes come to mind.
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Ophthalmic Tech, Naval Station, Everett, WA
Optical Mechanic, Puget Sound Naval Shipyard
Founder, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
21-year Mgr., Optics Dept., Captain's Nautical Supplies
Optics Mechanic, Ft. Lewis, WA.
Contributing Editor for Numerous Magazines
It's better to be a "has been" than a "never was." But only barely; the pay is about the same!
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 4391
Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
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Quote:
The ability to seperate the steak from the BS !
I like that, ...hadn't heard it before!
That's 'cause I just thunk it up.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Ophthalmic Tech, Naval Station, Everett, WA
Optical Mechanic, Puget Sound Naval Shipyard
Founder, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
21-year Mgr., Optics Dept., Captain's Nautical Supplies
Optics Mechanic, Ft. Lewis, WA.
Contributing Editor for Numerous Magazines
It's better to be a "has been" than a "never was." But only barely; the pay is about the same!
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 4391
Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
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“Also, thank you for sharing (in your PDF) some of the important design and build points that go into making a truly 'good quality' binocular - which I would guess that most of us (even some of the more educated users) weren't actually aware of.” --Jimbo100
And that’s why I wrote it; most folks have no clue as to what is involved. If it is shaped like a “binocular” it must BE a “binocular.” But then, I guess that comes down to how one defines a “binocular.” On lists like these, there are many opinions that are beautiful, succinct, powerful, persuasive and . . . wrong.
Cheers,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Ophthalmic Tech, Naval Station, Everett, WA
Optical Mechanic, Puget Sound Naval Shipyard
Founder, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
21-year Mgr., Optics Dept., Captain's Nautical Supplies
Optics Mechanic, Ft. Lewis, WA.
Contributing Editor for Numerous Magazines
It's better to be a "has been" than a "never was." But only barely; the pay is about the same!
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Jon Isaacs
Postmaster
Reged: 06/16/04
Posts: 32442
Loc: San Diego, California
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Bill:
You pointed out many important things to understand when purchasing binoculars. I appreciate it.
A couple of points you implied but I did not see directly mentioned, maybe I missed them:
- The Field of view may be poorly illuminated, the center maybe fully illumianted but towards the edge there is serious vignetting. Or worse the Binocular may have say 80mm objectives but there are restrictions in the optical path so that the effective aperture of the instrument may be significantly smaller. Ed Z. has addressed this with measurements of the exit pupil of a variety of binoculars.
I think there is room for common ground, common understanding here. There is room for a variety of choices. You contribution here is important because it helps many of us understand what we are getting and what we are not getting when make a decision to purchase binoculars.
For example, an 80mm binocular that is attractively priced may only have an effective aperture of say 70mm. This could still be a reasonable value and provide reasonable views for the money if one is willing to accept the liabilities.
There is room for inexpensive binoculars and there is room for expensive binoculars. I think most of us start at the low end and work our way up the ladder until we find something we are comfortable with.
Jon Isaacs
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 4391
Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
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First, I didn't stop the PDF because I was finished. I stopped because I was tired and knew that I had made THREE times as many points as a rational person would need.
And since you don't know me like Ed, I think I should say that I have NEVER looked down upon anyone who can’t afford a better binocular. I HAVE and USE several lower-quality binos. I just get myself into trouble when people buy a VW beetle and start acting like it is the equivalent of a Rolls. If they feel that way, I am ALL FOR IT. BUT, when they start trying to convince their neighbor of such nonsense, I feel I need to say something. I realize that I may get thrown out, again. But then, such is life. I just don’t believe TRUTH (verifiable) is not subject committee decisions.
By the way, one of my prized possessions is a 1963 Jason Statesman 7x35! But, being the snob I am, I wouldn’t want you to tell anyone! 
Cheers,
Bill
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stargazertony
sage
Reged: 09/25/07
Posts: 222
Loc: Apple Valley, CA.
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Thank you Bill for the PDF file. I have it printed out and on my desk. Wow, there are alot of things to consider about binoculars that most of us don't even realize but now we know thanks to the work of alot of people here in this forum. I really am thankful of the fact that you all will share this information to keep us newbies on the straight and narrow. I realize I'm starting at the bottom of the barrel and working my way up in the world of binoculars but I tell you I cant believe how much I'm learning. Thanks again!! 
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Anthony Rogers
Discovery PDHQ 12.5" Dob.
Meade LX-3 8" SCT
Orion Apex 4" Mak
Orion 4.5" imaging newt
Hutech 1a modified Canon EOS 350d
20X80 binoculars
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eklf
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/12/07
Posts: 1207
Loc: Carrboro, NC
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Quote:
There is room for inexpensive binoculars and there is room for expensive binoculars. I think most of us start at the low end and work our way up the ladder until we find something we are comfortable with.
That is a very good point Jon, thanks for bringing it up. In pursuing various hobbies, this is the general road that I wind up taking. When i first started in this hobby, I would never have considered spending $400 - $500 for a pair of binoculars. Now, a year later, I can see why such an investment may be worthwhile. I guess i will stop at that rung which balances my pleasure with my finances. I only hope I will have the wisdom to be thankfull to have reached that rung of balance, rather than fret over how many more steps are ahead on this "stairway to heaven".It helps a lot if one can associate with experienced people..the journey then is much pleasurable, rather than the frustrations that come because one just did not have the knowledge to make the right decision.
Clear skies/Kumar
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Clear Skies/Kumar
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 4391
Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
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"I guess i will stop at that rung which balances my pleasure with my finances."
Aristotle couldn't have said it better.
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Ophthalmic Tech, Naval Station, Everett, WA
Optical Mechanic, Puget Sound Naval Shipyard
Founder, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
21-year Mgr., Optics Dept., Captain's Nautical Supplies
Optics Mechanic, Ft. Lewis, WA.
Contributing Editor for Numerous Magazines
It's better to be a "has been" than a "never was." But only barely; the pay is about the same!
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BillC
on a new path
Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 4391
Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
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Quote:
Thank you Bill for the PDF file. I have it printed out and on my desk. Wow, there are alot of things to consider about binoculars that most of us don't even realize but now we know thanks to the work of alot of people here in this forum. I really am thankful of the fact that you all will share this information to keep us newbies on the straight and narrow. I realize I'm starting at the bottom of the barrel and working my way up in the world of binoculars but I tell you I cant believe how much I'm learning. Thanks again!!
No, thank YOU!
Somewhere around the $450 and $500 mark, you can stop worrying and just go on looks, feel, size, weight and performance. The folks who need to worry most about the things I was blathering about are usually folks who don't care--or know to care--anyway.
Good Night,
Bill
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William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Ophthalmic Tech, Naval Station, Everett, WA
Optical Mechanic, Puget Sound Naval Shipyard
Founder, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
21-year Mgr., Optics Dept., Captain's Nautical Supplies
Optics Mechanic, Ft. Lewis, WA.
Contributing Editor for Numerous Magazines
It's better to be a "has been" than a "never was." But only barely; the pay is about the same!
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JohnnyC
member
Reged: 05/25/06
Posts: 69
Loc: London, UK
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Quote:
Quote:
But, I'm from the old school and have three special skills--
1) The ability save
2) The ability to be patient
3) The ability to seperate the steak from the BS BEFORE spending my money.
Well Said! This should be the mantra, not only for Binoculars, but for most things worth having!
Absolutely! These are desirable skills indeed for much of life in general.
In my view there is nothing wrong with buying a cheaper bino; I have two myself, although I have commensurately lower expectations from them. One of them I don’t really use and will probably either sell or trade for something better (if I can). The other, does have its uses. I have also owned a couple of high end compacts and looked through a number of premium brand binos and am definitely in the camp who believes “you get what you pay for”. However, this is not the same as saying that paying more guarantees you a better product, and paying more does not generally produce proportionate increases in quality!
As a relatively inexperience bino user, there is a huge amount here that I was never even aware of let alone thought about. So, thanks Bill for writing the piece.
John
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