Patrik Iver
sage
Reged: 07/29/03
Posts: 408
Loc: Kaarina, Finland
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Dear readers,
I'm one of those unforunate people who are (almost) unable to find the telescope unless I'm wearing glasses. Thus most of my EP's are Pentax XL's (and a few selected other long ER EP's, such as a Pan 35, Ultrascopic 35 e.t.c.).
Now after reading Tom's (once again) great article about the T4 Naglers I realize that there just might be hope for a T4 17 to be usable for me. I do have a pair of XL 21's that I use in the binoviwer, but something in the 15 - 17 range would be nice between the 21 and 10.5 mm XL's (don't own the 14 mm XL).
I'm sure there must be someone out there who has tried using the Nagler T4 17 while wearing glasses. Do you find the ER sufficient? Can you see the full field with glasses on?
I tried asking a similar question in the article discussion forum in the thread about Tom's article, but there were no answers. Thus I "borrowed" Photoner's subject line for his similar Ethos ER thread and though I'd try my luck here (thank you, Photoner).
Thank you all in advance.
-------------------- Best regards,
Patrik Iver
60°N, 22°E
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bicparker
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/07/05
Posts: 2066
Loc: Plano, TX
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Yes.
-------------------- David Moody, FRAS
17.5" f/5 dob
10" f/10 SCT
5" f/8 refractor
80mm f/6 refractor
66mm f/6 refractor
Plus a few others out of the rotation
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walt r
Post Laureate
Reged: 02/13/07
Posts: 3611
Loc: Doylestown, PA
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Yes. That's why I have one. I also have the N12T4 and the 35Pan for the same reason.
-------------------- Walt
Obsession 18" f/4.45 #1370 AN/SC
MK67 Deluxe 6" f/12 Mak-Cass, Super Polaris GEM, JMI MicroMax DSC
DIY 60mm f/6 Achromat
Cookbook 245 CCD
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PJF
professor emeritus
Reged: 05/06/04
Posts: 667
Loc: UK
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I, too, can use the 17T4 - full field - with glasses on (indeed, all the T4s - much to my delight). But my glasses are thin (since my eyesight isn't terrible) and I can't speak for those with thick lenses.
I hope it works for you, Patrik, but beware - if it does you may find yourself desiring the 12mm and 22mm too.
-------------------- Peter
10x50 binocs
ED80 'frac
6" f/12 Maksutov
6" f/6 Newtonian alt/az
10" f/4.3 Newtonian alt/az
Bryce
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 15388
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.5400 feet
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With thick eyeglasses the 17T4 might be a tight squeeze to get it all for some,the 22T4 works nicely for me. IMO the 17 is still more comfortable than the 32mm TV plossl despite the listed ER.
-------------------- Kenny
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Jim Romanski
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 2091
Loc: Guilford, Connecticut
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Yes.
I wear glasses for astigmatism and use all three Nagler Type IV eyepieces and the 31mm Nagler Type V as well. I am able to see the entire field in all of them with my glasses on.
I just ordered a new pair of glasses stricktly for Astronomy. I found a frame that places the lenses very close to my eyes. So close that my eyelash bushes the lense if I put to much pressure on them. I expect that I'll be able to see the entire field with 15mm eye relief and maybe even with a bit less...we'll see.
Per the article in Sept 05 Sky & Telescope I had a prescription made up that is 1/4 diopter stronger for near sightedness. I also ordered glass lenses.
-------------------- Jim
17.5" Dob "Beta Version"
13.1" Coulter
8” Cave
NP 127 on a CG-5 and CGEM DX
25x100 and assorted other binos
Naglers, Ethos and various others.
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Patrik Iver
sage
Reged: 07/29/03
Posts: 408
Loc: Kaarina, Finland
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Thank you all!
My dominant (right) eye is -6 diopters nearsighted, and I have high index glass lenses, so they are not too thick, I think - my Canon 10x30 IS bins have a stated ER of 14 mm and I just see the full field with them. Looks like it will work.
More expenses...
-------------------- Best regards,
Patrik Iver
60°N, 22°E
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 8169
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Jim-
Hmmmm... i've thot of trying that (stronger eyeglasses) myself. How does it work for your night vision?
Patrik-
I use a 12mm T4 Nagler while wearing eyeglasses, and it works fine- i suspect the 17mm would be similar, as it has the same ER listed. But- as others have said, if your glasses are very thick for lenses, you *may* lose a bit of the FOV... yet hopefully not much, if at all.
Hope you can find the answer you need... and if you *DO* actually try one yourself, please post your experience for others who, i'm certain, will one day have the same question! 
Cheers, mike b
-------------------- "I have been paddling in the shallows of a great ocean of knowledge." - Sir Isaac Newton
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob & a Denk II binoviewer * *
http://peaceofsky.wordpress.com/
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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Shawn H
Postmaster
Reged: 05/16/07
Posts: 6692
Loc: Equatorial Guinea, West Africa
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I'm nearsighted and sometimes I use my glasses and somtimes I don't but anyway I like comfortable eye relief! All my ep's were chosen with good er. 27 Pan (19mm), 17 Nag (17mm), 12 Nag (17mm) & 7XW (20mm). I think with glasses we can get buy with at least 15mm er. Shawn Haggerty Avignon, France
-------------------- 18" David Lukehurst truss Dobson with Sky Commander flash 4 DSC's & Moonlite CR2 focuser & Astrocrumb filter slide
Orion xt10i fully flocked with Telrad on 4" risers & Feather Touch focuser & huge Boston Red Sox decal
The original Orion StarBlast & 15x70 Celestron Skymaster binos & Ethos & Naglers & Dobs oh my!
Orion Ultrablock narrowband filter & Astronomik OIII line filter
Tele Vue 2x Barlow & Antares 1.6x (2") Barlow
CATSEYE collimation tools, TeleGizmos Dob covers
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patter1
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/19/05
Posts: 597
Loc: Canada
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I can see almost the full field with glasses, but only with the eyeguard clicked all the way down, eyecup folded down, and face pushed into the eyepiece. If you want/need to see the full field, I wouldn't call it truly eyeglass friendly. My experience only.
-------------------- Patrick
8" f/6 NewStar dobsonian
Orion Starblast 4.5" f/4 mini dobsonian
42mm SuperView, 17mm Nagler T4, some other cheapies
Omcon 7x50, Oberwerk 11x56, Olympus DPS-R 7x35, Olympus Magellan 8x25
homemade 50mm right-angle bino-scope prototype
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 15388
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.5400 feet
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Your and my experience only,Patrick.
-------------------- Kenny
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Jim Romanski
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 2091
Loc: Guilford, Connecticut
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Quote:
Jim-
Hmmmm... i've thot of trying that (stronger eyeglasses) myself. How does it work for your night vision?
I don't know yet. I just order the glasses last week so I won't get them for another week.
There was an article in Sept 05 S&T about it. They decribe an effect called night myopia. Apparently, most of us change focus as our pupils open up completely. Many people report seeing dimmer stars with a small myopia correction. This is true for people with myopia and those without.
Since I was getting glasses that fit close to my eyes just for observing I thought I'd try the extra myopia correction.
It should only help for naked eye observing since you can focus out myopia.
I'll let you know how it works out.
-------------------- Jim
17.5" Dob "Beta Version"
13.1" Coulter
8” Cave
NP 127 on a CG-5 and CGEM DX
25x100 and assorted other binos
Naglers, Ethos and various others.
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astrodon
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 2552
Loc: Portland, OR, USA
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For me, the 17mm ER of the 17mm T4 is the shortest I can comfortably view the entire field with. I can do 16mm ER, but then I have to start pushing my glasses towards my face which can get uncomfortable. I'd be interested to here about your experience with over-corrected glasses Jim. I once had a pair that over-corrected my nearsightedness and stars where pinpoint and planets where perfect spheres. I now have considerable astigmatism which I don't think will ever be fully corrected.
-------------------- Eager to get the Cave 6" f/4 out with some 'high' (medium in this scope) power eyepieces!
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 8169
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Thanks Jim- yeah, i saw that article, too... even gave a copy to my eye-doc.
Please DO keep us posted on how they work, and whether they cause any eyestrain over prolonged periods. mike b
-------------------- "I have been paddling in the shallows of a great ocean of knowledge." - Sir Isaac Newton
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob & a Denk II binoviewer * *
http://peaceofsky.wordpress.com/
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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Patrik Iver
sage
Reged: 07/29/03
Posts: 408
Loc: Kaarina, Finland
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Quote:
Hope you can find the answer you need... and if you *DO* actually try one yourself, please post your experience for others who, i'm certain, will one day have the same question! 
Got the eyepiece earlier this week. The weather has been lousy for months - since it started getting properly dark here at latitude 60 degrees north we have only had maybe 4 or 5 clear nights when I've actually been free to get out and observe. And none since the N17 came.
The eye relief if fine for me. Of course it is a bit tighter than a Pentax XL, but not at all by much - I can still see the full field with the eyecup extended one step (while wearing glasses, as I just about always do).
Indoors testing in a Vixen SS80A f/5 achro shows the EP to very sharp also towards the edge, and comparing it to my Panoptic 35 you are immediately struck by the massive pincushion in the Pan compared to the Nagler. Also, there really is a huge difference in the apparent field.
So far only positive things. Time and proper astronomical use will tell how comfortable will turn out to be compared to the XL's, which so far are the absolutely most comfortable EP's I've used for extended periods. As well as being optically very good, they are to me extremely easy to use regarding eye-placement issues.
Thank you all who helped me reach the decision to get the 17 mm Nagler.
-------------------- Best regards,
Patrik Iver
60°N, 22°E
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Ketan
sage
Reged: 11/02/06
Posts: 371
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Hallo, WHat about T6.? I know they have shorter ER than the T4. But do all you glass wearers find them comfortable? good wishes, Ketan.
-------------------- ---------------------
Even if I forget or do not write 'thank with words of formality', please do not ever feel bad, because silently and positively, I always feel much more than that`.
Ketan S.
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sixela
Postmaster
Reged: 12/23/04
Posts: 13991
Loc: Boechout, Belgium
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I doubt many glass wearers (who wear their glasses while observing at all times, even for the T6 focal length eyepieces) buy T6s.
--------------------
400mm f/4.46 self made Dobsonian on Tom Osypowski equatorial platform
Skywatcher 130mm f/5 BlackLine (finder, widefield scope and solar continuum scope)
Sumerian 250mm f/4.8 Alkaid (as travelscope without platform and on Tom O. platform above).
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astrodon
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 2552
Loc: Portland, OR, USA
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I've had a couple of T6's and I wear glasses all the time. The T6's were fantastic eyepieces to me sharp, high contrast, and transparent. If I squashed my glasses against my face I could just see the whole field. But if I hung back at a comfortable distance of 15-16mm they became wonderful 70 degree eyepieces. I'm sure the comfort of the Pentax is fabulous, but for me it makes sense to have the capability of the 82 degree spacewalk. Another note on the T6's is that even without my glasses, in order to see the whole field I would have to get close to where my eyelashes would touch the eye lens and get oil on it. I have been told that I should back up from the eyepiece as I should have been too close at this point, but others don't understand this is what was necessary for me to see the whole field confortably or how long my eyelashes are.
-------------------- Eager to get the Cave 6" f/4 out with some 'high' (medium in this scope) power eyepieces!
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ausastronomer
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 06/30/03
Posts: 1479
Loc: Kiama NSW (Australia)
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Quote:
Jim-
Hmmmm... i've thot of trying that (stronger eyeglasses) myself. How does it work for your night vision?
Patrik-
Cheers,
mike b
Hi Mike,
I have been using specially made glasses for astronomy use for many years. This was based on the advice of my optometrist who said my night time prescription would be slightly stonger than my daytime prescription.
The only way to do this properly is to go visit your optometrist and tell him exactly what you are trying to achieve and the reasons for it. He should then leave you in the room with the lights out for about 15 minutes to allow your pupils to properly dillate, then come in and do the eye test under a red light. It isn't much good IMO estimating your night time adjutment as it can be different for each individual. In my case my prescription in my right eye changes by .5 diopter for short sighted correction and .25 diopters for astigmatism correction with a minor change in the astigmatism axis. You can't guess at this, you have to test for it properly. By going and ordering a pair of glasses .25 diopters overcorrected will likely help a little in every case, but it is not necessarily the ideal result for each individual. You then need to consider the quality of the glasses and how much you want to spend. I strive for every photon. In this regard it is important to get high quality lenses with very good coatings when you order these glasses. I have previously had glass lenses from Zeiss, Rodenstock and Hoya which all worked very well and are recommended if you can handle the weight. I currently have Nikon lenses made from a special high transmission plastic, with an anti reflective coating called Crizal Alize. These glasses are absolutely outstanding and the equal of glass with a lot less weight. At a price seriously in excess of the cost of a new Ethos eyepiece, they would want to be
I can go at least .3 mag deeper naked eye with these glasses over my standard glasses under good conditions and most importantly the stars appear a little tighter and better defined. They are worth every cent if you have a spare $AUS 1,000 lying around, with the prospect they will be useless in less than 2 years time as my prescription changes. You could probably spend 1/4 of that amount and still realise 90% of the gain I realise. Under that scenario it is a very worthwhile exercise.
Quote:
Dear readers,
I'm one of those unforunate people who are (almost) unable to find the telescope unless I'm wearing glasses. Thus most of my EP's are Pentax XL's
Now after reading Tom's (once again) great article about the T4 Naglers I realize that there just might be hope for a T4 17 to be usable for me. I do have a pair of XL 21's that I use in the binoviwer, but something in the 15 - 17 range would be nice between the 21 and 10.5 mm XL's (don't own the 14 mm XL).
I'm sure there must be someone out there who has tried using the Nagler T4 17 while wearing glasses. Do you find the ER sufficient? Can you see the full field with glasses on?
Thank you all in advance.
Hi Patrick,
I wear glasses to observe. Have a case full of Pentax XW's, 12mm and 17mm Nagler T4's, a 31mm Nagler T5 and a 13mm Ethos. Whilst the T4 Naglers are not quite as comfortable to use with eyeglasses as the Pentax XW's, they are very user friendly for eyeglass wearers and the 17mm Nagler T4 is an excellent choice at this focal length. Very highly recommended.
Cheers,
-------------------- John Bambury
AS of NSW
AS of Hunter Valley
18"/F4.5 Obsession #1333 (fully loaded with OMI optics)
14"/F4.5 SDM #33 (fully loaded with Zambuto Optics)
10"/F5.3 SDM #50 (fully loaded with Suchting Optics)
Pentax XW's, Nagler T4's, T5's, DELOS & ETHOS. TV Paracorr, 1.8X TV Barlow and 2.5X TV Powermate
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Mike B
Starstruck
Reged: 04/06/05
Posts: 8169
Loc: shake, rattle, & roll, CA
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Thanks John- Yours is both good news & bad. Yet its precisely par for the course, as one tends to pay prortionally more & more for smaller, even incremental gains in performance. Everywhere... not *just* astronomical gear!
Quote:
... with the prospect they will be useless in less than 2 years time as my prescription changes
... this being the bone-chiller. And i know whereof you speak- my last eye exam (after only two years) showed my one eye's correction for astig changing notably! And i'm not even a growing boy... well, not *UP* anyways. I woulda thot at 50 my vision would've finally settled down... and i woulda been dead wrong! 
Thanks for what really has been a "reality-check". Maybe someday i'll give it a whirl? But for now, call me polycarb-man. 
Cheers, mike b
-------------------- "I have been paddling in the shallows of a great ocean of knowledge." - Sir Isaac Newton
* * 15" F4.55 Starsplitter Dob & a Denk II binoviewer * *
http://peaceofsky.wordpress.com/
Pacheco State Park
Fremont Peak
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