Anonymous
Unregistered
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Tonight looks like it may be clear(ish). As well as getting first light with the telrad and new ultima EP's, I thought I'd have a stab at working out visibility (as opposed to seeing?). Does anyone use a particular area of sky to help? In one of Octobers US magazines (explre & discover astronomy?) it states that the area within the square of Pegasus is a good place to look, as the better the conditions the more stars will be revealed. A good place or is there better??
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14205
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Try Here
Aries
Pisces
Delphinus
Sagitta
Taurus
Little Dipper
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Dennis
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/30/03
Posts: 1284
Loc: Westford, Mass
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I saw this link last May posted by Ralon73. I use the little dipper as my mag usually falls around the 4.3 to 5.0 range. http://www.phys-astro.sonoma.edu/observatory/observers/limiting_magnitude.html Enjoy!
-------------------- Dennis
Nexstar9¼GPS
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Thanks guys, excellent links. After seeing them I did a google search for similar and found this: http://www.saguaroastro.org/content/LimitingMagnitude.htm It seems well simple, for example using area 6, count the number of stars visible in half of the Square of Pegasus and compare it to the table to determine magnitude. Anyone vouch for this method??
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Thanks for the useful links...I posted a similar message a few days ago but this thread gathered more answers. The only question left unanswered in my post is how are the stars and DSOs measured in terms of magnitude with such precision ....to decimal values...do they use some ****meters etc nowadays? How about the pre-electric/electronic times?
Thanks for the comments and answers
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 14205
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Star catalogues from as recently as a decade or two ago now have out of date info as to precision of measured magnitudes. the Tycho Survey has thousands of stars measured to precision.
There is another thread with a ton more info pinned at the top of the Deep Sky Forum.
I find the method described by most of those websites, the corners and count the stars in the bounded area to be the LEAST ACCURATE and MOST DIFFICULT method of measuring the magnitude of your night sky. I don't recommend them.
If you've ever tried to let your eyes scan over an area even half the size of the Square of Pegasus, you'll know what I mean. First, it is extremely difficult to let your eyes determine those boundaries, especially when the boundary lines are big and especially when you need to count all the stars strictly within that boundary. Second, some of those are very, very large areas. You can lose trac of which stars you counted and which you haven't counted yet. And finally, many times your eyes will NOT see specific brighter stars, yet will see fainter stars. Sometimes star color has something to do with this. It's easier to see blue stars than it is red stars. NONE of the star boundary methods take that into consideration.
Go read the Limiting Magnitude thread in the Deep Sky Forum for more information.
edz
-------------------- Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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BillFerris
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/17/04
Posts: 2872
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Quote:
[snip]The only question left unanswered in my post is how are the stars and DSOs measured in terms of magnitude with such precision ....to decimal values...do they use some ****meters etc nowadays? How about the pre-electric/electronic times?
Astronomers use photometric standard stars--stars whose brightnesses are known to about 0.01 magnitude--as references against which other stars are compared to determine their brightnesses. Commonly used reference stars include those known as Landolt standards.
The first catalog of Landolt standards was published in 1983. It included more than 200 stars along the celestial equator--visible from every observatory on the planet--and included stars ranging in brightness from approximately 7.0 to 12.5 magnitude. A second Landolt catalog, published in 1992, includes stars between 11.5 and 16.0 magnitude along the celestial equator. Others have extended the list of standards to include fainter stars at a wider range of declinations.
Standard stars had their brightnesses measured at multiple wavelengths using photomultiplier tubes--old technology that does a much better job of accurately determining the brightness of stars than modern CCD systems.
Here's a link to a page that talks about standard stars and has links to relevant original sources of standards: Photometric Standard Stars
One of the challenges faced when determining the brightness of extended objects is determining where the background sky ends and the object begins. Often, astronomers use a limit of 25.0 magnitude per square arcsecond as the cutoff for galaxies. Since this goes beyond what is typically seen at the eyepiece of an amateur telescope, the size of the galaxy you see is usually smaller than the published size of the galaxy.
One of the best known galaxy catalogs is the RC3 (Third Reference Catalog of Galaxies) by de Vaucouleurs, et al. This two volume catalog (1993, 1995) includes 23,000 galaxies, including most larger than one arcminute in size and brighter than about 15.5 magnitude in blue light. That translates to a magnitude limit of about 14.7 in visible (green) light.
My favorite online resource for galaxy data is linked, here: NASA/IPAC Extragalactic Database
Regards,
Bill in Flagstaff
-------------------- Grand Canyon Adventure
Lowering the Threshold
18" Obsession
4.5" Meade 4500
10x50 Swift Audubon
Cosmic Voyage
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Dear Bill and Edz,
Thanks for the light you shed on my question...and thanks for the links as well...I will dive in there and surf for a while.
Best regards
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Redfish
super member
Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 177
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You could remember every star's magnitude and then compare, but what I do is remember which very faint stars I can see, and then compare them with a sky program. I think that's a bit easier. I can count 1-4 in the pegasus square but you still don't really know how good your LM is.
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SaberScorpX
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/12/05
Posts: 4220
Loc: illinois, usa
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Link to lots of LVM test areas:
http://obs.nineplanets.org/lm/rjm.html
Stephen Saber PAC/Astronomical League http://www.geocities.com/saberscorpx/home.html
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UpNorthLibrarian
sage
Reged: 04/18/05
Posts: 415
Loc: 44.30N / 83.53W
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This is a link to the Bortle Scale: http://skyandtelescope.com/resources/darksky/article_81_3.asp
I'm very fortunate (good planning? (;>) to enjoy Class 3 nights WHEN it's clear...
-------------------- 'True observation begins when one is devoid of set patterns'
Li Jun Fan
203mm DBA Certified Dob
AT-80mm Refractor w/Vixen Icarus D Alt/Az Mount
10x30 Canon IS Binos
9x60 Obies
8x42 Obies
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panhard
Mongo
Reged: 01/20/08
Posts: 4356
Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
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In the winter I use orion There is a fair bit of light polution here also it is fairly high in sky early in eve to south.
-------------------- OrionXT10I With padded carrying case
8,13.17mm Hyperion eye pieces with rings
Koning 32mm,25mm Skywatcher eyepieces
Limicon Deep Sky Filter
Lumicon 0111, antares variable polarizing filter
Telrad & 2" riser Right angle correct image 9x50 finder scope
Feathertouch 2 stage focuser
"What goes around comes around."
cloudy nights my # 1 site
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Tony Flanders
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 3082
Loc: Cambridge, MA, USA
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Quote:
Star catalogues from as recently as a decade or two ago now have out of date info as to precision of measured magnitudes. the Tycho Survey has thousands of stars measured to precision.
Gotta be careful with Tycho magnitudes. They may be accurate, but they are not measured in the usual V passband, so they can be several tenths of a mag different from the "correct" magnitude. There's a correction formula based on B-V, but it's approximate.
-------------------- Tony Flanders
eyeglasses
6x15 and 8x32 monoculars
8x25, 7x35, 10x30 IS, 10x50, and 15x70 binoculars
70mm and 100mm achromatic refractors
4.5", 7", and 12.5" Dobs
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