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JumboFlex
sage


Reged: 01/20/09
Posts: 373
Mach1 Over Kill
      #3061220 - 04/23/09 04:14 AM

Hi.

I got the notification. Now I am wondering if a Mach1 GTO is simply over kill for my needs. Am a visual observer with a 4" refractor who might go up to 5 or so inches but nothing larger to mount on the Mach1 (if I am gonna go bigger Im gonna go Dob). I dont plan on doing imaging for a number of reasons and I generally prefer simpler mounts (alt az) over GEMs. However, I would like the ability to track and goto with a mount that is solid. Plus I am one of the crazies that will go out and actually observe in the negative degrees of winter that the Mach1 and its electronics can tolerate.

I signed up for it as it exceeded what I wanted in a mount at the time, but now that its within reach I feel somewhat guilty for perhaps purchasing such a mount for only visual use when its seems so obviously directed towards what some may consider "higher end" use. Its not a question of money but it just feels like I might be buying a Ferrari just to drive to the post office and back, but still, its a Ferrari...

Am I crazy? I still got some time to think about it. On the flip side, if I didnt go for it I might be kicking myself later. Shouldnt I be happy that I got through one of APs waiting lists and can actually afford the thing I was waiting for? This should be a no brainer yes/no?

I welcome any thoughts, comments, derisive laughter, etc.

JFlex

--------------------
JF

Double undercuts... for safety!


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Eric P
sage


Reged: 04/04/05
Posts: 462
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: JumboFlex]
      #3061248 - 04/23/09 05:18 AM

IMO it is overkill for a visual observer.

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Paul G
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/08/03
Posts: 4063
Loc: Freedonia
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: JumboFlex]
      #3061291 - 04/23/09 06:23 AM

A lot of Mach1GTO owners are strictly visual. You don't need to be an imager to appreciate a mount that is portable, well built, needs no tinkering, is extremely stable and accurate, has a versatile and easy to use hand controller, and gives you the flexibility to go to a larger scope or image in the future if your needs or desires change. You can set up in the evening before dark and do a quick daytime polar alignment and be ready to go as soon as it is dark enough to observe.

Mach1GTO on AP wooden tripod


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nik hodges
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 04/20/07
Posts: 973
Loc: UK
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: Paul G]
      #3061304 - 04/23/09 06:35 AM

probably is overkill for your current use but if you have the funds i would go for it, they are beautiful mounts and if you ever get the imaging bug your good to go

--------------------
http://www.pbase.com/njh542/images2009


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Charlie HeinAdministrator
Postmaster


Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 11211
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: nik hodges]
      #3061340 - 04/23/09 07:13 AM

I wouldn't stress over it... you wanted to get a quality mount and there are darn few if any that are better than AP. Think of it as if you were buying a car - most folks who can afford a Mercedes aren't going to get buyers remorse and get a Hyundai instead, even though the Hyundai is now a very reliable automobile and the Mercedes is clearly overkill by comparison.

Another way to look at this is that unless you decide to build an observatory or start lugging realy big scopes out, once you buy the Mach1 you are probably done as far as mounts are concerned - it could easily be the last mount you'll need to buy.

--------------------
Weston CSC:


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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 2496
Loc: Virginia
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #3061371 - 04/23/09 07:35 AM

If you aren't certain and err on the side of passing it up - just get right back on the list. There is/will be a wait for the mount but I think it is going to get even shorter - if you decide you made a mistake, I'll bet your name might come up again in 18 months or so.... not so bad, IMO. I turned down a Mach 1 about 2 years ago I think, and I've now got one scheduled to arrive from A-P this month. I survived my initial disappointment and now I'm really ready for it!

As for the overkill issue for visual - I agree with Paul and the other recent posts.

Paul - is that your own mount? It looks like a pro stock photo that I haven't seen before. I really like the add on tray arrangement and the Baader tripod. What a great visual set-up.

--------------------

Hooville



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RAKing
Postmaster


Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 5349
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: Paul G]
      #3061389 - 04/23/09 07:51 AM

Quote:

A lot of Mach1GTO owners are strictly visual. You don't need to be an imager to appreciate a mount that is portable, well built, needs no tinkering, is extremely stable and accurate, has a versatile and easy to use hand controller, and gives you the flexibility to go to a larger scope or image in the future if your needs or desires change.




Paul describes my situation perfectly.

I used to do film A-P, but got frustrated and quit. I came back to astronomy as a visual observer, but I appreciate quality and put my name on the list. I was also forced to pass the first time around, but not this time.

Like Doug says, if you decide to pass just get back on the list. My chance came up again and this time I said "Yes". I still think the Mach1 is the perfect solution for a solid, yet lightweight, accurate mount. It can carry any scope I can carry - and like Charlie says, I expect it to be the last mount I have to buy.

Best of luck with your decision,

Ron

--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life
My beloved Bashful, Misty, and little Ralphie - they are my heavenly stars

AAVSO - Sustaining Member
TEC 140 ~ STF-Mirage 8" Mak ~ 8"f/6 Zambuto Newt
A-P Mach1 ~ Losmandy GM-8


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t.r.
Post Laureate


Reged: 02/14/08
Posts: 3060
Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: RAKing]
      #3061491 - 04/23/09 08:48 AM

I have been a visual observer for over thirty years. I put my money into quality optics, eyepieces and accessories. We tend to forget about the many accessories. Yes, a scope is only as good as its mount to a degree, but for visual on a 4" or 5" inch scope, a Mach 1 is overkill IMHO. Put that money into a good comparison mount(G-8, CGEM,CGE, TAK) and have the additional funds left over for any accessory you might desire! There are many facets beyond imaging in the hobby that are worth a try. The high end mounts are intended for imaging and you pay for that level of quality...

--------------------
Kmart 40mm-Thanks Mom for starting it all|Jason60mm-Thanks Dad|C80SS-Thanks Wife|C90|C6XLT|AP130EDFGT|C-11XLT
EQ-2&3|CG5GT|Mach 1 & Eagle
"For once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return".-Leonardo da Vinci
"We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-Oscar Wilde
~All Dogs go to Heaven...RIP Buddy~



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LLEEGE
True Blue


Reged: 03/03/05
Posts: 12767
Loc: Cloud-chester,NY
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: t.r.]
      #3061608 - 04/23/09 09:59 AM

Quote:

I have been a visual observer for over thirty years. I put my money into quality optics, eyepieces and accessories. We tend to forget about the many accessories. Yes, a scope is only as good as its mount to a degree, but for visual on a 4" or 5" inch scope, a Mach 1 is overkill IMHO. Put that money into a good comparison mount(G-8, CGEM,CGE, TAK) and have the additional funds left over for any accessory you might desire! There are many facets beyond imaging in the hobby that are worth a try. The high end mounts are intended for imaging and you pay for that level of quality...


Good advice. There are many other good choices for a visual mount that will be MUCH cheaper.

--------------------
A wise man once said........nothing.

A good mount
A few good OTA's
A few good EP's
A decent camera
Crappy skies


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NHRob
Post Laureate


Reged: 08/27/04
Posts: 4111
Loc: New Hampshire
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: t.r.]
      #3061879 - 04/23/09 11:51 AM

Hey Tim,
How do you like that CGEM?

Rob

--------------------
Rob ... my avatar pic is me ... on a good day!
**********************
Canon 12x36 IS binos
Spooner 6.5" f/8.6 dob w/Dobstuff mount
Past Scopes:
Starstructure 14.5", Starmaster 14.5", 10" f/6 Zambuto homemade dob
AP130EDSF, AP130EDT, Traveller, AP152 f/9, 6" AP Christen triplet,FS-102(x2),FC-100,FS-152,TOA-130,TEC-140(x2),TV-101, TV-102,TV-76,TV-85, WO Z80FD, SV105/LZOS, WOLZOS100/800, TEC-6,TEC200/15,MN56,APM130/1200/LZOS,Mewlon180, Jaegers 6" f/15 achro, Palermiti 6" f/15 achro



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t.r.
Post Laureate


Reged: 02/14/08
Posts: 3060
Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: NHRob]
      #3062118 - 04/23/09 01:24 PM

Ordered the 1st week of March...still enroute! I do believe it would be fine for your TEC140. I bounced back and forth between it and the CGE. I think it was Fred at Astronomics said I wouldn't need the CGE for the C11 and for visual the CGEM would fit the bill nicely...

--------------------
Kmart 40mm-Thanks Mom for starting it all|Jason60mm-Thanks Dad|C80SS-Thanks Wife|C90|C6XLT|AP130EDFGT|C-11XLT
EQ-2&3|CG5GT|Mach 1 & Eagle
"For once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return".-Leonardo da Vinci
"We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-Oscar Wilde
~All Dogs go to Heaven...RIP Buddy~



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RAKing
Postmaster


Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 5349
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: t.r.]
      #3062144 - 04/23/09 01:32 PM

Quote:

Ordered the 1st week of March...still enroute! I do believe it would be fine for your TEC140. I bounced back and forth between it and the CGE. I think it was Fred at Astronomics said I wouldn't need the CGE for the C11 and for visual the CGEM would fit the bill nicely...




I was very impressed with the CGEM I saw at NEAF. It reminded some of us of the Atlas and should do fine with your C11.

Back OT - to the OP: If you decide to pass on the Mach1, the Atlas or CGEM would be close matches for capacity and the GM-8 would be a close match for machined quality, IMHO.

Ron

--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life
My beloved Bashful, Misty, and little Ralphie - they are my heavenly stars

AAVSO - Sustaining Member
TEC 140 ~ STF-Mirage 8" Mak ~ 8"f/6 Zambuto Newt
A-P Mach1 ~ Losmandy GM-8


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Paul G
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/08/03
Posts: 4063
Loc: Freedonia
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: t.r.]
      #3062292 - 04/23/09 02:29 PM

Quote:

I have been a visual observer for over thirty years. I put my money into quality optics, eyepieces and accessories. We tend to forget about the many accessories. Yes, a scope is only as good as its mount to a degree, but for visual on a 4" or 5" inch scope, a Mach 1 is overkill IMHO. Put that money into a good comparison mount(G-8, CGEM,CGE, TAK) and have the additional funds left over for any accessory you might desire! There are many facets beyond imaging in the hobby that are worth a try. The high end mounts are intended for imaging and you pay for that level of quality...




You also pay for reliability and after sales service. Something the Mach1 won't give you that the CGEM will:

CGME love



--------------------
Gus

"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is.


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t.r.
Post Laureate


Reged: 02/14/08
Posts: 3060
Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: Paul G]
      #3062312 - 04/23/09 02:37 PM

And to some that is certainly worth the $ but for me, I'm okay with a new products glitches and having to "fine tune" its performance to my needs. They are crude and a work in progress, I accept that and save the other $5000+ dollars for other things...YMMV.

--------------------
Kmart 40mm-Thanks Mom for starting it all|Jason60mm-Thanks Dad|C80SS-Thanks Wife|C90|C6XLT|AP130EDFGT|C-11XLT
EQ-2&3|CG5GT|Mach 1 & Eagle
"For once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return".-Leonardo da Vinci
"We're all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."-Oscar Wilde
~All Dogs go to Heaven...RIP Buddy~



Edited by t.r. (04/23/09 02:38 PM)


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skyward_eyes
Vendor-Woodland Hills/Focus


Reged: 12/12/06
Posts: 3352
Loc: California
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: t.r.]
      #3062382 - 04/23/09 03:12 PM

Dont feel guilty at all. You would be getting a very stable and high quality mount for ANY use. You may only use a 5" refractor now but you will have a mount ready for much larger scope if you ever change your mind.

Buy what you feel will do the job you are asking.

--------------------
Kevin LeGore
kevin@telescopes.net
Woodland Hills Camera & Telescopes
www.telescopes.net

Focus on Astronomy Outreach Project
www.focusonastronomy.org
Director and Founder
k.legore@focusonastronomy.org


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Paul G
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/08/03
Posts: 4063
Loc: Freedonia
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: Doug D.]
      #3062465 - 04/23/09 03:51 PM

Quote:

Paul - is that your own mount? It looks like a pro stock photo that I haven't seen before. I really like the add on tray arrangement and the Baader tripod. What a great visual set-up.




Thanks! It's mine, all tricked out with accessory trays and control box holder:

http://photo.net/photodb/slideshow?folder_id=795115

--------------------
Gus

"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is.


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Doug D.
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 08/23/05
Posts: 2496
Loc: Virginia
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: Paul G]
      #3062488 - 04/23/09 03:59 PM

Paul - how do you like the Baader tripod? I'm driving myself nuts trying to decide on a set of legs for my Mach 1. I have a pier on order for imaging (PWT Pinnacle) but I sure would like something more portable and adjustable for visual with my Traveler. Yours sure looks nice and practical with those trays attached. Very professional looking photos by the way!

Sorry - don't mean to hijack the thread. I'm fine with a PM response....

--------------------

Hooville



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Paul G
Post Laureate


Reged: 05/08/03
Posts: 4063
Loc: Freedonia
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: Doug D.]
      #3062764 - 04/23/09 06:11 PM

Doug,

I really like the AP/Baader wood tripod, use it primarily with the Traveler and the 130 f6 for visual. It will carry the 155 f7 and the 10" mak as well when I don't feel like hauling out a bigger mount, again I don't do imaging (burned out in the old days with hypered tech pan).

The only thing I don't like about the wooden tripod is the tray/spreader. I replaced it with the Lapides folding spreader, beautifully designed and machined, allows the tripod to fold down completely.

http://www.astro-nut.com/lapides-tripod-mod.jpg

--------------------
Gus

"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is.


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JumboFlex
sage


Reged: 01/20/09
Posts: 373
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: Doug D.]
      #3062782 - 04/23/09 06:23 PM

Thanks all for your posts. The views expressed have helped.

I could buy a "lesser" mount, put money elsewhere into the hobby, but the things is I kinda have everything else EP, telescope, accessory wise that I actually want (although one could always buy more EPs) so the mount is the last step to round it out. It would be a mount meant for long term use and I do think that if I made the purchase I would be happy in that I cant really do much better within its capability range.

Thinking about it more I do appreciate a well thought out product and have based a lot of my previous gear decisions on reliability, quality of manufacture and reputation of the company involved - cant really go wrong with AP there. Also, in a somewhat reversed view from t.r., I am not interested in having to tinker much, I accept a basic amount of maintenance and set up time, but I am not interested in having to fine tune a product to meet my needs when something else might be available "out of the box" that can. The same job that allows me to be able to afford a Mach1 doesnt always allow me the time to view the sky as much as I would like and I would like those times to be as trouble free as possible.

So basically I have decided to go for it, now I am stuck in somewhat the same position as Doug D in that I have to figure out if I want a tripod or pier or just want to hire a couple of guys to hold the equatorial head steady.

Not to hijack the thread; although, I think I can since Im the OP, what are people using for legs for the Mach1. Im leaning towards the wood tripod but the Eagle portable pier seems nice. Ive never really used piers and am wondering about the portability and set up, the AP ones do seem rather amenable to transport and easy setup.

Once again, thank you all for your comments, they actually did help.

JF

--------------------
JF

Double undercuts... for safety!


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RAKing
Postmaster


Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 5349
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: Mach1 Over Kill new [Re: JumboFlex]
      #3062800 - 04/23/09 06:34 PM

The Eagle is awesome and I wish I had one.

I've been using the A-P Portable Piers for a couple years and they are incredibly solid for their weight. They are also fairly easy to break down and transport if you must.

Ron

--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life
My beloved Bashful, Misty, and little Ralphie - they are my heavenly stars

AAVSO - Sustaining Member
TEC 140 ~ STF-Mirage 8" Mak ~ 8"f/6 Zambuto Newt
A-P Mach1 ~ Losmandy GM-8


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