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Special Ed
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 6339
Loc: Greenbrier Co., WV 38N, 80W
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Carlos, Thomas, and Ron,
Thank you very much. I always appreciate your valuable comments and feedback. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on atmospheric dispersion and the blue appearance of the NPH.
Apparently, with Mars in a gibbous phase the position of the Tharsis volcanoes is such right now (for N. American observers) that the low sun angle is casting their shadows against the bright desert region--the same way that lunar domes become visible. That would be something to see!
Ron, it sounds like you're on the horns of a dilemma. Some of the imagers who post in these forums make it look easy but they have really put the time in. Maybe it will get better when you don't have to learn at 3 o'clock in the morning. 
Best,
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Michael Rosolina
Celestron CGE Pro 1400 f/11 SCT
1980 Orange Tube C8 f/10 SCT
4.25" f/4.2 Astroscan Reflector
50mm f/10 Galileoscope
40mm PST f/10
APM Germany HD 15x70 binoculars
Canon 12x36 IS II binoculars
Mark I Eyeball
My CN Gallery
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Ron B[ee]
Tyro
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 4720
Loc: CA
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Quote:
Carlos, Thomas, and Ron,
Thank you very much. I always appreciate your valuable comments and feedback. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on atmospheric dispersion and the blue appearance of the NPH.
Apparently, with Mars in a gibbous phase the position of the Tharsis volcanoes is such right now (for N. American observers) that the low sun angle is casting their shadows against the bright desert region--the same way that lunar domes become visible. That would be something to see!
Ron, it sounds like you're on the horns of a dilemma. Some of the imagers who post in these forums make it look easy but they have really put the time in. Maybe it will get better when you don't have to learn at 3 o'clock in the morning.
Best,
Thank Michael for your encouraging words. I guess the first time was beginner's luck and now it's hard work  .
To answer your question, here's a couple of Mars photos I took unfiltered this morning which wasn't worth posting with a 5X Powermate at f/43. CM was approx 132 and Mars was near the zenith (I'm at 33degree N). But it shows clearly the blue in the NPH without any red. But then my scope is only a 4-incher .
What do you guys think? My guess is it's the NPH and not AD.
Ron B[ee]
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5-inch Tele Vue NP127 APO 
4-inch Tele Vue TV-102 APO 
Edited by Ron B[ee] (08/04/05 12:12 AM)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Some people are saying that the blue color of the N Polar Hood is actually atmospheric dispersion. It was my understanding that AD showed itself as blue on one limb and red on the opposite one--I haven't seen the red. Also, my observation of the bluish hood was with Mars at an altitude of 55-60°. Does anyone have any info on this?
This image I took this morning shows clouds/haze on the NPC, the blue area was readily observable in the telescope (@ 560x magnification):
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CarlosEH
Postmaster
Reged: 01/19/05
Posts: 6714
Loc: Pembroke Pines, Broward County...
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Michael and Robert,
Thank you for your images of Mars. They show interesting detail. I cannot explain the blue coloration of the North Polar Hood (NPH) at this time. It may be due to the angle of sunlight striking dust particles within the martian atmosphere over the north pole? I look forward to your future images and observations.
Carlos
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Special Ed
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 6339
Loc: Greenbrier Co., WV 38N, 80W
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Quote:
I cannot explain the blue coloration of the North Polar Hood (NPH) at this time. It may be due to the angle of sunlight striking dust particles within the martian atmosphere over the north pole?
Thanks, Carlos. From what you said, it sounds like no matter what is actually causing the blue color it is happening in the martian atmosphere and not in our own. The blue haze apparent in Robert and Ron's images and seen visually is weather on Mars.  I guess I'm correct in assuming that the N Polar Hood is harder to detect right now because so much of the southern hemisphere is visible from our vantage point here on Terra.
This observation was made Thursday AM. I was unable to detect much detail and shading in the albedo features--Solis Lacus was on the CM but I couldn't see it. I didn't mind so much because regular observations are making me consult my maps and helping me re-familiarise myself with the appearance and position of martian features. 
In this observation I noticed that the north limb appeared green with the yellow (#11) filter. Yellow + blue = green. The north limb appeared bright but not blue in the unfiltered view. 
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Michael Rosolina
Celestron CGE Pro 1400 f/11 SCT
1980 Orange Tube C8 f/10 SCT
4.25" f/4.2 Astroscan Reflector
50mm f/10 Galileoscope
40mm PST f/10
APM Germany HD 15x70 binoculars
Canon 12x36 IS II binoculars
Mark I Eyeball
My CN Gallery
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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All,
Since being inundated with three grandkids and visiting son my time has been limited to lurking my favorite Internet sites and dumb e-mails. Living in the outback, or boon docks, has a few disadvantages, i.e., only dial-up Internet, Deputy Sheriff cars patrolling once every two years, redneck pickup trucks blasting loud pipes as they haul airboats out to the lake and chase gaters, or frogs or maybe deliver dope to lakeside crack houses, etc., so whenever some one sends me a long file I go to the hot tub to warm up and wait until the message with attached files comes in. That one good thing about retirement. But, I generally hate to log on.
So, Ron B[ee] or “Carpal Tunnel” met with my wife and me for lunch in San Diego last week and we had a great time meeting this great person. He is excited about Mars, as most of us are (crazy people) and wishes I would enter in more dialogue with yawl. In a week or so I may do that. Most of the Mars observations, both image and drawings, on this forum are really good and one can see that yawl are learning the way we-all (wawl) older or more experienced Martians did in the past. From each other. Keep up the good work and if anyone has an answer or question please post it. One never knows who lurks these pages.
 
Edited by JDB (08/06/05 10:01 AM)
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LivingNDixie
TSP Chowhound
Reged: 04/23/03
Posts: 17757
Loc: Trussville, AL
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Robert,
What does IR blocked mean in the picture? Very nice images, I'm impressed
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Preston
Meade 10in LX200R GPS UHTC
blog (updated 02/15/2013)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi Preston, I used an IR/UV block filter while imaging Mars.
Thanks.
Robert
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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The legacy goes back even further. Chick Capen was an understudy of Clyde Tombaugh when they worked together at White Sands Proving Ground in NM back in the 1950’s. Also, Walter Haas, founder of ALPO) was a professor of Mathematics at New Mexico State and worked with the scientists at White Sands as well. From my freshman high school times I would read of them in the school library and many years later acquired the book, Men, Rockets and Space Rats, that featured all three men in two chapters. I have similar books of their exploits and papers they published in those years that ring truth even today in our modern space mission times. So, from Galileo Galilei to the young man. Clyde Tombaugh who discovered Pluto, to world renowned Mars authority, Charles F. Capen, Jr., to several of us mere amateurs -- we hand down what knowledge the classical astronomers learned in the 380 years before us.
With some much written about Mars and the daily visits with the Red Planet as seen by out spacecraft, we must6 revise our knowledge constantly. I visit the Malin Space Science Systems Home Page at http://www.msss.com/ often and marvel at the close up images of Mars. At times we can see close up images of dust clouds and meteorological phenomena that are images or visually seen from Earth. This helps us calibrate out equipment, and our brains as well, it tends to being us into reality so to speak. One may ponder how we will feel when the day comes that people travel to the planet and begin to settle there. Will we continue to observe the mysterious planet Mars?
Anyway, visit my web site at; http://www.tnni.net/~dustymars/ and click on the highlighted words, “click dustlinks” to find stuff that may change from time to time. I have revised the old ALPO Mars Observer’s Handbook and it is also on my web site. The Astronomical League has the rights to the original book so it needed revising so there it is. I left out the electronic imaging world because it is covered in detail all over the Internet and in the magazines -- plus I am clue-less in that area anyway. If there are additions or changes or even stuff that needs to be deleted, then yawl see please let me know. When my grand kids are gone and my nerves settle down – work will continue on the book. Heck, maybe we can get the busy Carlos to add stuff to it.
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Ron B[ee]
Tyro
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 4720
Loc: CA
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Quote:
So, Ron B[ee] or “Carpal Tunnel” met with my wife and me for lunch in San Diego last week and we had a great time meeting this great person. He is excited about Mars, as most of us are (crazy people) and wishes I would enter in more dialogue with yawl. In a week or so I may do that. Most of the Mars observations, both image and drawings, on this forum are really good and one can see that yawl are learning the way we-all (wawl) older or more experienced Martians did in the past. From each other. Keep up the good work and if anyone has an answer or question please post it. One never knows who lurks these pages.
It was a grand pleasure and a huge privilege to have met you and your wonderous wife Jeff. Several friends of Chick Capens mentioned that he was a great story teller. Well from where I was sitting, lots of him must have rubbed on you real good as I was just sitting there mesmerized  just listening. I wish I could have heard more of those wonderful stories you told me. Hope to see you again in not too distant of a future. So glad I got your autograph in my Mars Observer's Handbook in the meantime .
And yes... a great many of us need your help with Mars, Jeff. For instance, I had no idea why the SPC is so small this year when in 2003 it started out huge  (thanks to Michael R. for his help explaining). Mars sure is the most enjoyable planets of all .
Ron B[ee]
PS - I shall have to go visit your handbook revision.
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5-inch Tele Vue NP127 APO
4-inch Tele Vue TV-102 APO
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Well, Chick Capen had a great sense of humor and we would sit and tell war stories for hours when time permitted. When we would see some unusual event occur on Mars, no matter what time of the day, we would phone him. In 1984 he retried from Lowell’s Planetary Research Center and moved to Cuba, Missouri so we would drive in to visit often. Once several of us were visiting, along with our old friend Bill Douglass who was President of the S.C.A.S for years, and went on a picnic on the banks of a nearby river. It had rained earlier so the bank was muddy and slippery. Bill was an original curmudgeon and was not too happy with some of our jokes -- as we were jokesters of the third kind. 
So, we were standing there on the bank of the river, hosting a glass of sour-mash Scotch, toasting another years in our friendship when Bill slipped and fell in the mud – on his rear end! Without a sound from any of us Chick raised his glass to Bill, still in the mud cussing like a sailor, and toasted Bill with this, “here’s mud in your eye.” With that everyone else nearly fell in the mud laughing. Even Bill cracked a smile, because Chick’s timing was on the spot with the right words for the occasion. 
Both of them are now gone and their close friends miss them dearly. Some advice: stay in contact with friends, we do not live forever. The rat race tends to run our lives by faster and faster as we age, so stop and take stock of where you are.
Whenever we, by that I mean the “Black Hole Gang,” meet a new Martian we bring them into our community of observers and rank them high. Our mentors were humble souls and so do we try to be as well, so please take us down from the tower – it’s not our style.
BTW, our ephemeris listings still use the old terms and at the end of the listing is a glossary of terms that hopefully defines or explains them. Someone on high keeps changing them for some reason, so we like to keep things simple.
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 18002
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Well, maybe this is the place for me to make my first Planetary and Solar System Observing forum post. I've been shying away from here because aside from Saturn's Rings (and maybe a glimpse of the Cassini Division), and Jupiter's NEB and SEB (and hints of further banding with a Galilean transit or two for good measure), my planetary views have tended to be a bit disappointing. Especially with respect to Mars, which has generally been nothing more than a reddish-orange blob for me. But last night everything fell into place and I very clearly saw (without a filter) a polar cap and had a good sense of what I suppose to be Meridiani Sinus (?). So I consider myself initiated. 
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 42898
Loc: Frederick, MD
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Joad,
Welcome to the party Sir!
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   SLAP Observer --- TMB130SS, SV102V(LOMO Lens), SV80ED Deluxe
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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Ron B[ee]
Tyro
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 4720
Loc: CA
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Quote:
But last night everything fell into place and I very clearly saw (without a filter) a polar cap and had a good sense of what I suppose to be Meridiani Sinus (?). So I consider myself initiated.
That is the most wonder news Joad!
If you can tell us the UT date and time, we may be able to help you with what exactly you were seeing. Mars map are indispensible. In my Light Cup's Mars HOW-TO, there are several sources for maps (I find using several maps are very helpful).
Ron B[ee]
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5-inch Tele Vue NP127 APO
4-inch Tele Vue TV-102 APO
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Joad
Wordsmith
Reged: 03/22/05
Posts: 18002
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Quote:
Quote:
But last night everything fell into place and I very clearly saw (without a filter) a polar cap and had a good sense of what I suppose to be Meridiani Sinus (?). So I consider myself initiated.
That is the most wonder news Joad!
If you can tell us the UT date and time, we may be able to help you with what exactly you were seeing. Mars map are indispensible. In my Light Cup's Mars HOW-TO, there are several sources for maps (I find using several maps are very helpful).
Ron B[ee]
Let's see now, by my calculation, PDT is 7 hours earlier than UT, so it must have been about 10:00 UT on Sunday, August 7.
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Ron B[ee]
Tyro
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 4720
Loc: CA
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Quote:
Let's see now, by my calculation, PDT is 7 hours earlier than UT, so it must have been about 10:00 UT on Sunday, August 7.
Oo-la-la Joad, so you were the one my NP127 bumped into this
morning in the Eye of Mars . At 10 UT this morning, here's what you saw (perhaps not in all the details you see in this Mars Previewer II map ). I'd say that besides the SPC, Mare Erythraeum was the largest dark patch (albedo) you saw. If you looked careful, the Eye of Mars might have been visible (though not ideally placed) at high power as a teeny disc-like dot - I saw it through my NP127 at 220x this morning. Make sure you use filter as it was next to impossible to see it without filter (too bright) for me this morning.
I hope to hear more of your Mars adventure and let's bump into each other again on the Red Planet .
Ron B[ee]
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5-inch Tele Vue NP127 APO
4-inch Tele Vue TV-102 APO
Edited by Ron B[ee] (08/07/05 11:05 PM)
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Bill Grass
Prince Regent
Reged: 10/07/03
Posts: 11665
Loc: Baton Rouge, LA
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Good to see you in here, Joad!
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andersha4000
member
Reged: 03/18/05
Posts: 50
Loc: Denver, CO
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first time posting here, I just had my first great view of Mars a couple of nights ago. I had my N11 cooled down for about 6 hours and was able to use a 10mm ultrascopic with a barlow, about 560x. WOW! the seeing was bad but I could still very clearly see the maria and polar cap boundrys. the last opposition was very disapointing I had a poorly collimated 120mm Orion refractor and lousy mount, all I saw was an orange blob with a fuzzy white spot. I just lost my fear of collimating my N11 GPS and am wowed by the views now. I want to start imaging as soon as I get an Nextimage CCD.
BTW it actually seemed to help seeing by cranking up the magnification, the frequency of the waves seemed to slow the higher I got. I would ocasionally get a few seconds or more of clear views. is this a normal thing to do?
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N11 GPS
Burgess Binoviewers
Orion 80ED
Coronado PST
Edited by andersha4000 (08/09/05 08:35 PM)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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wow, someone told me Mars is going to grow twice its size in October. Hum, what do they call earthquakes on Mars
Guess they really meant the apparent diameter or subtended angle would be twice, huh? 
Edited by JDB (08/10/05 06:07 PM)
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Special Ed
Postmaster
Reged: 05/18/03
Posts: 6339
Loc: Greenbrier Co., WV 38N, 80W
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Hi,
Here's a sketch of Mars that I made this morning. Seeing was good but that was somewhat neutralized by poor transparency. The SPC was small but still prominent. I couldn't see any detail. The dark area north of the SPC is Mare Australe. The bluish color of the Hood was apparent. There was very little limb haze and the dark albedo features were evident with the #80A filter so I guess that means that the martian atmosphere is clear right now. I was unable to detect Niliacus Lacus.
I saw a few Perseids while I was out. One bright one came out of Perseus and went right by Mars--very nice.
Regards to all,
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Michael Rosolina
Celestron CGE Pro 1400 f/11 SCT
1980 Orange Tube C8 f/10 SCT
4.25" f/4.2 Astroscan Reflector
50mm f/10 Galileoscope
40mm PST f/10
APM Germany HD 15x70 binoculars
Canon 12x36 IS II binoculars
Mark I Eyeball
My CN Gallery
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