Tonk
Postmaster
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 6100
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
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Now that is cool - a Hutech modded 20Da - I hope Hutech add this to their product list. A good filter and the live focus sounds a winner. Just got to get the price right 
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Televue 85/TRF-2008 field flattener, Meade LX200 10", Manfrotto 055SSB tripod/410 geared head/AstroTrac TT320X-AG/056 3D head, GM-8/Gemini, 10 Micron 1000 HPS, Canon 40D (unmodded), Canon 450D (modded w/Astronomiks clip-ins - UV/IR, OWB), Coronado SM60/Lunt B1200/WO diagonal, Baader Herschel Wedge
Leeds Sky Clock Ripon Sky Clock
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JerryWise
Postmaster
Reged: 12/26/03
Posts: 9284
Loc: Lexington, SC
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I run into the same issue when posting results on my 300D and Hutech 300D. Same scope, same focus, same Hartman image and slip one camera off and the other on the same T-ring. If we say this will noticeably affect image quality then it will be very hard to ever do a comparison. You then can dwell in nano-problems like the warmth generated by the hands when placing the second camera on the mount if the other camera was on for 30 minutes without being touched and on and on.
Having tried to present a fair comparison on scopes, EPs and cameras I applaud your efforts Stefan.
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Jerry
TOA 150, FS-152, 14" LX200R, AP-1200
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Stefan
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 421
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Jerry,
your posting is much appreciated. 
Thank you.
Stefan
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AuroraSeeker
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/16/04
Posts: 1377
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
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Quote:
The focus is the same.
As is the h-alpha response in both images. Just marginal improvement with the 20Da. Definitely not enough improvement to warrant the extra $1000 or so.
The 20Da is probably the biggest waste of money i've seen yet for astrophotography, especially when compared to equipment that far excels the performance of the camera at less than 50% the cost for a 20Da.
I really hope you had some sort of grant or corporate sponsorship to pay for that 20Da, Stefan. Otherwise, i'd be feeling pretty angry at the fact that I already had a camera (the 20D) that gave practically the same results. And judging by your images on your website, you have already mastered focusing, so the real-time focusing really isn't buying you much for that additional $2100!!
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http://www.danielmccauley.com/
Daniel McCauley, Astrophotographer
Southern New Jersey
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Stefan
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 421
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> I really hope you had some sort of grant or corporate sponsorship to pay for
> that 20Da, Stefan.
Now it is enough.
I have no sponsorship or something like that. Please read ALL my postings in this thread. I never, never recommended anyone to buy a 20Da. And yes, I never, never dissuaded to do so.
I only tried to gave you and others information for free.
> Definitely not enough improvement to warrant the extra $1000 or so.
That is your opinion. Others may be different. Everybody has to decide for him/herself. $1000 is not the same value for everyone.
> And judging by your images on your website, you have already mastered
> focusing, so the real-time focusing really isn't buying you much for that
> additional $2100!
You should take a closer look. Except that one and only (!) Veil nebula image with the 20Da: ALL OTHER images at my website showing long-exposed deep-sky-objects are made with a SBIG-STL 11000 CCD-camera. 
> that gave practically the same results
Repeat that more and more. Some day you may believe it.
Fact is: It is a different camera with improvements. Read this thread to learn where, how and how much.
Stefan
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Corn
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/27/04
Posts: 2199
Loc: Sweden
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Well, I for one appreciate the effort you have put into the test of the two cameras.
Cheers
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Canon 300D (mod)
8" f/5 Skywatcher, EQ6 Pro, HEQ5 and Barn door mount.
http://web.telia.com/~u18524382/
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Stefan
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 421
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Thank you Corn! Much appreciated.
Best wishes,
Stefan
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Grizz
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/24/03
Posts: 2176
Loc: Waldwick,New Jersey USA
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Lets take a deep breath...
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Craig
LX200GPS 10" UHTC SMT
ETX90EC
Orion ED80 APO
Meade LPI Canon 10d Meade DSI
My Photo Gallery
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AuroraSeeker
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/16/04
Posts: 1377
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
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Stefan,
My apologies. I don't mean to take this out personally on you and I do appreciate you taking the time to make the comparative tests. I guess I'm just anti-20Da (or perhaps I'm jeaous i don't have one myself  ) and get quite emotional over it.
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http://www.danielmccauley.com/
Daniel McCauley, Astrophotographer
Southern New Jersey
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c131frdave
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 4376
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This looks a lot like the RCX vs RC debates of the past months. To each his own, I say.
To do a real test, how about shooting through a narrow band Ha filter? I mean, that's what we're talking about here, right? Anyone willing to give up their filter in the name of Science?
No, you can't have mine...
Took a deep breath and now I'm hyperventilating. Thanks Chris...
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Tak NJP
Various sizes and shapes of formed glass
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Stefan
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 421
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Carpal,
> To do a real test, how about shooting through a narrow band Ha filter?
Good idea.
> I mean, that's what we're talking about here, right?
Not only. I tested both cameras (20D/20Da) at one object without any filter. The test say something (not all) about the sensitivity over the whole spectrum. That is important too, because not every target in the sky is emitting H-Alpha light.
To test the H-Alpha response is another thing. A narrow band H-Alpha filter would help to learn more about that, indeed. I did a test indoor with a 15nm H-Alpha filter. Please read my initinal posting of this thread to see the results. Another test with a H-Alpha filter would be interesting for sky imaging, too. To do that, I need time and - more important - a clear sky... 
I think I use for that test my 5nm narrow band H-Alpha filter from SBIG.
More to come, more to do.
Stefan
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Stefan
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 421
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I respect your last posting. You are brave and honest.
Iīm sorry for my insistent words to you, too.
Hey, letīs have fun with our cameras, however they named (because they are vintages in a few month, or weeks, or days). And letīs have fun with that forum.
Best,
Stefan
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Kyle Coker
member
Reged: 08/13/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Orange County, CA
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2 points of interest. I know Ted Ishikawa of Hutech as his dark site pad is next to mine. With regard to the focus issue he once told me that most camera maufacturers, especially Canon, are very consistant from camera to camera and model to model with regard to the distance from the front mount to the film/sensor plane. That is why he can preset his knife edge focuser at the factory and it will work on your camera.
Second is the issue of replacing the IR filter on a modified camera to bring it back for use in daylight. First Canon has not released the specs on the 20Da in-camera filter so it is anyones guese what filter is needed to restore ballance. He also noted the camera firmware for color balance is different between the 20Da and the 20d and 300/350D. He further cautions about adding an IR blocking filter to the front of wide angle lenses as this will cause spectrum shift off axis.
I think you could apply a filter to the front lens holder he installs in his modified cameras without a problem. When he gets more information on the proper filter for the 20Da he can add that to his filter options.
Kyle
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TOA130, Tak E-180, VC200L, TV85, AP1200, AP Mach 1 GTO, G-11, 10" LX200, C14, STL11K, 20Da, mod 5D Mk2, STV
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Tonk
Postmaster
Reged: 08/19/04
Posts: 6100
Loc: Leeds, UK, 54N
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Thanks for the excellent scoop Kyle .
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Televue 85/TRF-2008 field flattener, Meade LX200 10", Manfrotto 055SSB tripod/410 geared head/AstroTrac TT320X-AG/056 3D head, GM-8/Gemini, 10 Micron 1000 HPS, Canon 40D (unmodded), Canon 450D (modded w/Astronomiks clip-ins - UV/IR, OWB), Coronado SM60/Lunt B1200/WO diagonal, Baader Herschel Wedge
Leeds Sky Clock Ripon Sky Clock
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Coliwabl
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 925
Loc: Dallas, Oregon, USA
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Kyle - thanks for posting these daylight shots. This enitre review of the 20Da and associated links has been so helpful.
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Sky Watcher EQ-6 Pro w/Synscan
Orion 10" F/4.7 Newt
8" Astro-Tech f/4 Imaging Newt
Meade 80mm Series 5000 Triplet
Canon 7D
Canon T2i Hap Griffin Modified w/Astrodon IR
Canon 20Da
Imaging Source 41AU02.as mono
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
2.5 Powermate
Astronomik Ha,OIII,and SII 12nm cmos clips
Registax 6.1
Adobe Photoshop CS5 Extended
Adobe Lightroom 4.0
Starry Night 6.0
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ccs_hello
Postmaster
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 5224
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From this link,
the 350D IR-cut filter at 656nm is 18% T.
20Da's filter surely is better (may be 2.5X) but is in no way competing with no glass or specially designed high transmission rate H-alpha IR-cut glass.
But on the other hand, AR coating-only glass mod requires normal IR-cut filter to bring the camera back for daytime use. E.g., Maxmax's Xnite CC1 filter only has about 25% T @ 656nm.
Hope this helps!
ccs_hello
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Coliwabl
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 01/01/05
Posts: 925
Loc: Dallas, Oregon, USA
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Stefan - after all the discussion and critque, I received a 20Da yesterday.
I weighed in on Hutech but because I also shoot daytime photography, I went with the Da.
I was originally negative about the Da but figured what the heck. I also weighed in on an SBIG 7XE but in the end it got down to cost. The Hutech would cost about as much as the Da and not be as good for daytime shots. The SBIG CCD would involve many more $$ to get RGB shots and the quality would still not be what I would want.
I took a few shots last night with in spite of the full moon. I saw good response to M8 (an improvement over the 10d). I'm looking forward to the moon going away for few days to do some serious shooting.
Just thought you would like to know your information and the resulting posts were very helpful to my decision to get the Da.
Dennis
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Sky Watcher EQ-6 Pro w/Synscan
Orion 10" F/4.7 Newt
8" Astro-Tech f/4 Imaging Newt
Meade 80mm Series 5000 Triplet
Canon 7D
Canon T2i Hap Griffin Modified w/Astrodon IR
Canon 20Da
Imaging Source 41AU02.as mono
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
2.5 Powermate
Astronomik Ha,OIII,and SII 12nm cmos clips
Registax 6.1
Adobe Photoshop CS5 Extended
Adobe Lightroom 4.0
Starry Night 6.0
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Stefan
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 421
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Dennis,
I appreciate your posting and I would like to wish you a lot of fun with your new camera.
Iīm looking forward to see your results here.
Best,
Stefan
http://www.astromeeting.de
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Philippe
super member
Reged: 08/22/05
Posts: 159
Loc: Ieper, Belgium
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Hi everybody,
I read that some guys on this list here are interested in seeing more EOS-20DA pictures. You can see my first results on this web site:
http://astrid.astrolab.be/jsp/zoek.jsp?arg=EOS-20DA
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Click on the T-symbol below the thumbnails to get all the technical info you need about the picture.
Click on the Yellow Triangle next to 'Resultaat 1 tot 9' to get the next 9 photographs in the result set.
Philippe
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TMB 175 f/8, TMB 105 f/6, Astro-Physics 155 EDFS & 900/1200 GTO
CANON EOS-1Ds III, SBIG STL-4020M
Coronado AS1-140 BF-30 H-alpha filters
DMK 41BF02, Basler 1300
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Corn
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/27/04
Posts: 2199
Loc: Sweden
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Not exactly on topic but still a canon eg. EOS 5D EOS 5D
Cheers
EDIT: Hmm seems like the page is down here are a two shots
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Canon 300D (mod)
8" f/5 Skywatcher, EQ6 Pro, HEQ5 and Barn door mount.
http://web.telia.com/~u18524382/
Edited by Corn (08/22/05 09:25 AM)
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