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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1144
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
Pentax 10x50PCF WPII - personal review and opinion
      #576616 - 08/27/05 05:14 PM Attachment (282 downloads)

I received the Pentax 10x50 PCF WPII yesterday. The first impression was very good. Beautiful finish and they are in a very attractive and reliable performance, apart from Oberwerks lowcost design. Very comfortable to hold. They are small in comparison to Oberwerk 11x70.

One of the first thing I noticed is the small ocular lenses, who are fairly deep recessed, exactly as I have seen at a photo of the 8x40 model in the same serie. Not a good sign. When I try them I can see that it’s what I have been suspected: the usable eye relief is on the short side for eyeglasses. I can barely see the entire FOV if I look at the center of the field, but it feels limited. It doesn’t work well to look against the edges.
The eyecups are adjustable in 3 steps. When I look without eyeglasses I prefer the middle step rather than the outer. But the best is having them at the bottom! Because the ocular lens is recessed it works well, and gives the most comfortable seeing.

I measure the ocular lenses to 17mm in diameter, exactly the same as my Minolta 8x25 D WP XL, which works very well with eyeglasses. Taking in consider that the Pentax 10x50 has 50º AFOV (Minolta 8x25 has 44º), and that the lens is recessed about 3-4 mm deeper than the Minolta 8x25, it’s not hard to understand that the performance with eyeglasses has to be much worse. That is to compare to the Oberwerk 11x70 with 22mm ocular lens and 49º, and the lens is not much recessed.
I don’t remember the ocular lens size of my former Pentax 16x60 PCF WP, but I think it’s similar to the 10x50. In the 16x60 the lens is not recessed as in the 10x50, and the AFOV is 45º, so they worked very well with eyeglasses. Here we have one example of same stated ER (20mm), but totally different in practice.

I have read about the good performance of this binocular when it comes to a sharp image to the edges. Actually this example isn’t sharp to the edges, but to what I estimate about 80-90%, as usual with binoculars this vary depending on the position of the field. After that the sharpness at some positions slightly worsen, at other positions worsen quite much.
The sharpness is fairly good at the most of the field, but Oberwerk 11x70 is superior to Pentax 10x50 PCF WPII in as well sharpness on-axis and sharpness out to the edges.
I could also notice a slight difference between the left and the right ocular, the right was a bit sharper.

According to all the good reviews and testamonies of this binocular I am surprised to experience this. The example I got lack the real brilliance and sharpness I expected, and it’s not at all sharp until the edges. Usable ER is too short. Apart from that it has good coating, and ghost images are noticable against strong light sources but at an acceptable level.
It doesn’t have the problem with ray of lights from light sources short outside the FOV as Oberwerk 11x70.

I read someone claiming that the 20x60 PCF WP is superior to the 20x60 PCF WPII, and suspect it’s the same with the 10x50 version. From my impression and memory of the 16x60 PCF WP (I sold them 2 years ago), I think they were more brilliant than the 10x50 PCF WPII I have tried.

I’m sorry to say that, but I send the 10x50 PCF WPII back at monday.

I welcome commentaries.


The photo below: Fully coated bk-7 10x50 from 1979, (12-years old birthday gift and my first real binocular), Pentax 10x50 PCF WPII and Oberwerk 11x70.

Attachment

--------------------
*2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Nikon Sporter I 8x36
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*Stellarvue SV50 spottingscope
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm

Psalm 19:2


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EdZ
Professor EdZ


Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Pentax 10x50PCF WPII - personal review and opinion new [Re: Swedpat]
      #576642 - 08/27/05 05:44 PM

Patric,

some useful information.

the Pentax 16x60 PCF WP has an 18mm eye lens and it is recessed 3mm.
Usable eye relief is 17mm. this one has an Afov of 45°.

the Pentax 10x50 PCF WP has an 18mm eye lens and it is recessed 5mm.
Usable eye relief is 14mm. this one has an Afov of 50°

In both, I can see the entire field stop while wearing my eyeglasses.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1144
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
Re: Pentax 10x50PCF WPII - personal review and opi new [Re: EdZ]
      #576672 - 08/27/05 06:23 PM

Ed,

Yes, the ruler I use isn't maybe easy to measure exactly with. But you confirm that the 16x60 has more useful ER, 3mm makes difference.

It's also a difference between see and really see the entire FOV. I can as I described barely see the edges with eyeglasses on, looking in the middle of FOV, but barely means that it isn't enough in my opinion. The FOV feels yet limited. And as fast I move my eye little around the field the image becomes "dimmy". This problem is solved with taking my glasses off or having more useful ER.

In this respect Oberwerk 11x70 is really good, it has just the problem I experience the ER too long OR too short, it's impossible to adjust the eyecups to an optimal position.

Patric

--------------------
*2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Nikon Sporter I 8x36
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*Stellarvue SV50 spottingscope
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm

Psalm 19:2


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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1144
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
Re: Pentax 10x50PCF WPII - personal review and opi new [Re: Swedpat]
      #576719 - 08/27/05 07:08 PM

I investigated the ER-performance of my Minolta 8x25 D WP XL. The eyecups are adjustable in 4 steps. When I place them in the second step from bottom I experience the similar performance as with the Pentax 10x50 in the bottom level. And that is 4mm difference from the bottom level. That means the Minolta 8x25 has about or nearly 4mm more useful ER than the Pentax 10x50, and is similar to Pentax 16x60 PCF WP.

My definition of adequate ER for eyeglasses is when you can move your look around the FOV and clearly see the edges, without dimming the image, without changing the position of the eyecups in relation to the eyes.
In this respect the Pentax 10x50 PCF WP II isn't nearly adequate, but Minolta 8x25 D WP XL is barely.
Nikon 8x36 Sporter and Swarovski SLC 7x42 are example of binoculars who are just supreme.

Patric

--------------------
*2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Nikon Sporter I 8x36
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*Stellarvue SV50 spottingscope
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm

Psalm 19:2


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mooreorless
Just worried


Reged: 07/05/05
Posts: 2248
Loc: Cornpropst Mills,Huntingdon,Pa
Re: Pentax 10x50PCF WPII - personal review and opinion new [Re: Swedpat]
      #576765 - 08/27/05 08:10 PM

Patric,I couldn't send my Pentax 20x60 PCF WP back,I got it for Christmas and 30 days were up.My brother's Pentax 16x60 PCF V made this one look really sick,sorry to say.I left someone try it out for a week and they wanted it so I sold it at a loss.Same guy bought a 10x50 PCF V I had,it had good to very good optics.
Steve M

--------------------
Regards,Steve M



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Mark9473
Postmaster


Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 6459
Loc: 51°N 4°E
Re: Pentax 10x50PCF WPII - personal review and opinion new [Re: Swedpat]
      #577219 - 08/28/05 05:01 AM

Quote:

The sharpness is fairly good at the most of the field, but Oberwerk 11x70 is superior to Pentax 10x50 PCF WPII in as well sharpness on-axis and sharpness out to the edges.
I could also notice a slight difference between the left and the right ocular, the right was a bit sharper.



Patric, EdZ recently posted resolution measurements on a series of binoculars (using additional magnification if I remember correctly) which showed that the Pentax was not top-class in on-axis resolution. Where it did better other models, was in resolution nearer the edge. Perhaps the fact that you found edge resolution also inferior, and the differences you noticed between left and right barrel, indicate you got a lemon.

--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet


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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1144
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
Re: Pentax 10x50PCF WPII - personal review and opi new [Re: Mark9473]
      #577246 - 08/28/05 06:15 AM

Steve,

I,m sorry for that. The question is if the PCF serie worsen after every new updating? In this case it's really a step in the wrong direction by Pentax...


Mark,

During the years I have experienced a noticeable difference between the oculars in the same binocular several times.
Of course it has to be some microscopical difference because it's impossible to get absolute 100% the same optical precision of every produced lens. But I think that a good quality control should make it possible to hold this precision to a level that we don't normally notice it.
I will declare that this difference I noticed demands a quite careful comparison, and many people had never noticed it if they don't attempted to do it. But I think it's still too big.


Patric

--------------------
*2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Nikon Sporter I 8x36
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*Stellarvue SV50 spottingscope
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm

Psalm 19:2


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brt209
sage


Reged: 09/18/05
Posts: 233
Loc: London
Re: Pentax 10x50PCF WPII - personal review and opi new [Re: Swedpat]
      #633584 - 10/08/05 05:20 AM

This is all very interesting!
(see my thread pentax dcf 10x50 v pcf wII)
I don't think that I will purchase the PCF WII now,after reading quite a few reviews and seeing people complaining about the dodgy quality control on these binos.I need more than 14 or 15mm of ER anyway....
The Nikon Action EX seem to have a poor ER too,I'll probably have to splash out another £250 to get the pentax DCF 10x50...


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charen
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 05/28/05
Posts: 1446
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Pentax 10x50PCF WPII - personal review and opi new [Re: brt209]
      #1216582 - 10/25/06 04:04 PM

I had the Pentax 20x60 PCFW11's for about 3 months but sold them. I just found the 2.2 FOV and 44 AFOV just too narrow and the 'tunnel vision effect' I personally found frustrating + +. Optically they were fine, sharp to edge and stars were pinpoint with no disernable internal ghosting /reflections. The coatings were very high quality - some of the best I have ever seen - no reflections of my face at all.
I would have kept them but due to the narrow FOV - I ultimately found them redundant.

--------------------
30 binos.
Celestron C8
Skywatcher Equinox ED120 / Goto HEQ5.


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Joe Ogiba
Postmaster


Reged: 02/14/02
Posts: 5446
Loc: NJ USA
Re: Pentax 10x50PCF WPII - personal review and opi new [Re: charen]
      #1216702 - 10/25/06 05:13 PM

I have the Pentax 10x50 WP II's and they are ok but I like my Pentax DCF 9x63 roofs much better.

--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10 ,Celestron Regal 100 F-ED, CT152
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II , Pentax 8x32 ED
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
21mm Ethos,17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom, 31mm Axiom LX
Member #17


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KennyJ
The British Flash


Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: Pentax 10x50PCF WPII - personal review and opi new [Re: Joe Ogiba]
      #1216763 - 10/25/06 05:44 PM

< I have the Pentax 10x50 WP II's and they are ok but I like my Pentax DCF 9x63 roofs much better. >

Joe ,

I fully appreciate and respect you are a man of many optics , yet usually , of few words .

However , just for once , I was wondering if you could explain just a little , WHY it is you like your DCF 9 x 63 roofs so much more than the 10 x 50 WP 11's ?

Regards , Kenny

--------------------


Milton Wilcox R.I.P






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