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777Guy
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 615
Loc: 48'29N 122'37W
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In September my wife and I drove down to the california wine country and spent a few days in Mendicino. While walking around the town I ran across a great shop called
"Out of This World" which caters to the nature and science
crowd. They have a very good selection of spotting scopes and binoculars. I was able to try several brands of binoculars including Nikon and Pentax.
I was particularly interested in the Nikon 10x50 Extra Extreme but was bothered by the ergonomics and the curvature of field. The inner 50% of the image produced a very nice image but the outer field softness and curvature of field was obvious and distracting to me. I had not really intended to purchase a pair of binoculars that day but talked myself and my wife into the idea that we "really needed a small hand held pair for nature observing". She shocked me by agreeing with me and proceeded to try the Nikons and Pentax models. Her observations were actually very astute and she noticed such things as image softness towards the edge, ergonomic issues and weight. Mr. James Blackstock who is very helpful and knowledgable and part-owner of the store suggested we try Minolta. He had a few in stock and we tried them. The first pair was slightly out of collimation.
Mr Blackstock looked at several objects in the distance and agreed. He brought out another pair of 10x50s and these were perfect. My wife and I looked at boats in the distance, birds in nearby bush, objects in various lighting conditions and both agreed that the Minolta Activa 10x50WP.FP model was the all around champ.
My wife particularly liked the weight, at 910g which feels very light, and has good "holdability". You can hold them very steady for several minutes at a time and not get shakey. That is important to her as she has Carpal Tunnel problems.
The only thing I noticed that I didn't like was that in certain lighting conditions you can just barely notice some internal reflections. But it has some very nice features.
The eyecups are the twist and lock kind which is good for eyeglass wearers. The eye relief is quite good at 18mm and the exit pupil is 5.0mm. The Diopter Adjustment has a click-stop and the center focus is a little stiff at first, but after a some exercise smoothed out very nice. The pair come with a nice padded case and lense caps that fit snug and don't fall off. It is also waterproof and has a nice rubberized finish that should be very durable. In my opinion, the fit and finish, optical performance, weight and user satisfaction equal much higher priced brands. With tax the price was less than $200 US, and IMHO is a good deal if you are looking for a hand holdable binocular for nature observing.
With regard to astronomical viewing, I have had only one good night for observing and only a few minutes to try them. So far, I would have to say that they are only fair for astronomical viewing. Saw some spicking and anything beyond about 60% was pretty soft. But that is only with a brief peek. But I didn't buy them for that purpose anyway.
Hope this is informative for anyone considering a high quality 10x50 binocular for nature observations and daylight viewing for under $200.
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ngc6475
Fearless Spectator
Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 5024
Loc: 38°21'N 120°55'W
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That is welcome information and a very nice review, as well. It sounds like a bino that has some valuable features and is worthy of consideration! I didn't see the fov listed among your other stats, however. Do you recall what is is?
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Walter
"There are nights when the wolves are silent and only the moon howls."
-George Carlin
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777Guy
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 615
Loc: 48'29N 122'37W
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The published FOV spec is 341ft/1000 yards, Angle of View is listed at 6.5. My personal feeling is that it has a very wide FOV but does not seem to suffer from obvious curvature distortion. Seems to be a nice compromise.
Thanks for your kind remarks.
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Jim ,
May I add my thanks for an interesting post and congratulations on finding yourself what I know is one of the best value DAYTIME binoculars out there .
I came very close to buying the same model as a gift for a daughter not long ago , but as I wanted the gift to be a surprise , for once in my life I didn't allow my heart to rule my head , and my head ought to know by now that when it comes to binoculars , there is NOTHING comes close to TRYING before one buys .
That said , I'm sure my daughter would have been delighted with it -- my only doubt being that , like myself , she often finds 10x too high a magnification to hand - hold as steadily as one would like , and also her main use would have been for astronomy , and to that end , I felt it might not have been the best choice .
Good to hear from you again Jim -- I hope you're enjoying the recently formed AVIATION forum !
Regards , Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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777Guy
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 615
Loc: 48'29N 122'37W
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Kenny,
Thanks for your kind remarks, it is nice to hear from you again as well. I NEVER buy optical equipment without first looking through the lense. I made that mistake only once, but sometimes it just can not be helped and then you hope for the best.
The hand-steadiness issue was important too me and my wife as she suffers from Carpal Tunnel problems and I wanted her to want to use these binoculars. She was quite pleased with the weight, the balance, the placement of the hands and proximity to the center focus. They are very comfortable for US. We both have small hands and hand holding them for several minutes does not result in a shakey image. I had always thought that 8.5x was my personal limit but the Minolta performs very well.
I had hoped that these would perform as well at night as they do in the daylight, but I was not overly impressed my first time out. But to be fair, I only had a few minutes to look and ended up just panning around to check on edge performance and any aberations. I can say that the color performance was good with no false color or flaring observed. I did notice some spiking near bright objects. But the Milky Way looked very nice if you could ignor some softness past about 60%.
It is strange to me why some binoculars produce very clear and bright images in the day and produce less than perfect images on stellar targets.
Yes I do enjoy the Aviation Forum, Paul had done a very nice job.
Cheers,
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richtea
sage
Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 309
Loc: UK Yorkshire
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Hi Kenny
Just thought i would mention that these bins come in other specs (you are probably aware but just in case)
I too have considered them and recently tried 8 x40 wp fp and 7 x 35 wp fp whilst in USA on hols
They were both really good value and quality for day use with wide fields i personally preferred the 8x and may well "bag" a pair at some point in my binocular "career"
What really stopped me buying whilst in America was the fact that i also tried a Nikon 8 x 30 E11 and was stopped in my tracks by the quality and fov (oh and they were a lot less money in the states) consequently they are now in my collection and are rapidly becoming favourite to use over my 10 x SE's and Zeiss 10 x Jenoptems
Basically they are a very similar image to Swift Audubon 8.5's though the Swift appear a little brighter as light fades (Swift Audy's are another pair i will get round to buying oneday)
Regards
Rich
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12x Canon IS MK11 Porro
10x C/Zeiss Jenoptem/Nikon SE/E11/Swift Ultralite/Hawke B/Watch WP/ Praktica WA Porro/Olympus Wide /Brunton Porro
10 x Belomo Loupe + 10/20 x Silver Geo Loupe
10 x Celestron Regal LX Roof
9x Opticron Minerva Porro
8.5x Swift Audobon FMC Porro
8x Nikon E11/Minolta Activa WPFP/Praktica WA Porros/Smith Wesson(Pentax)Roof/Bushnell Discoverer Roofs/Olympus Wide PC Porro
7x Fujinon CDPC Roof
6.5x Pentax Papilo reverse porro
Nikon ED78A/38 x WA Scope/Eyepiece
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Hello Rich ,
Yes , from what I've heard and read , the Nikon 8 x 30 E11 ( and it's 10 x 35 sibling ) although clearly not the most fashionable model around , must be about THE best value for money " birding type of " bino available in the entire marketplace .
It stands to reason the 8.5 x 44s ought to be brighter in twilight -- and co - incidentally , I still rate the Porro version to be one of the very best value for money daytime binos .
Good to hear from you again Rich ,
Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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ngc6475
Fearless Spectator
Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 5024
Loc: 38°21'N 120°55'W
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The 8x30EII is an outstanding binocular, indeed. Lightweight, sharp optics, and a satisfyingly wide fov. As for fashion, it's definitely pugugly but, for me, that's part of its appeal! We match!
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Walter
"There are nights when the wolves are silent and only the moon howls."
-George Carlin
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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1144
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
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Jim,
Your report is very interesting. I have tried all of the models in the Minolta Activa WP FP serie. My impression is that they are a very good value for the money, maybe the best available binoculars in their price range.
But I am surprised to read that you mean they are not very suitable for astronomical use. Isn't a good sharpness synonymous to ability to show pinpoint stars?
After the big disapointment with the Pentax 10x50 PCF WP II, my personal review: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/576616/page/1/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1
I seriously consider to get the Minolta Activa WP FP. I just wondering which model I shall choose...the 10x50 are interesting for astronomical use, 8x40 are the best allround compromise, and the 7x35 are compact and offer very stable wide view.
Regards, Patric
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*2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Nikon Sporter I 8x36
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*Stellarvue SV50 spottingscope
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm
Psalm 19:2
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777Guy
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 615
Loc: 48'29N 122'37W
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I am sorry if I gave you the impression that the Minolta is unsuitable for astonomical use. I simply have not had adequate time to evaluate them for that purpose. They seem to be very sharp in 50 to 60% of the field, however, I did notice some spikes on bright stars past the area of maximum sharpness (greater than 50% from center). I did not buy them for that purpose as I have a Miyauchi that I use for astonomical use. I will try and perform a more detailed report on their suitability for hand-hold astronomical use.
I am sorry for that confussion.
I am not a big fan of hand-holding binoculars for astronomical observations. I am always amazed that when I mount them on a stable tripod how much better small binoculars perform. However, I do enjoy just lying on my back and looking at anything directly above me. I am looking forward to doing that with my Minolta as soon soon as I have a clear sky.
If you are considering the Minolta I don't think you would regret your purchase. I think they excell in daylight use and would probably not disappoint you for star gazing. However, if you just want to use them for star gazing than I think you should consider the Oberwerk. They seem to perform very well for star gazing but were just a tad too heavy for me for nature daylight observing. That is just my opinion however.
Cheers, Jim
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Patric ,
Nice to hear from you again after a short interlude !
I was SURE I'd posted a few comments in response to your dissapointing report about the Pentax PCF WP 11 straight after first reading it , but for some reason , I can't seem to find it now .
I've commented before in several other threads on various forums about my dislike for the Pentax " naming system " with their binoculars .
As is the case with Bogen tripods , for my liking , there are too many letters , numbers and symbols and not enough NAMES by which various models can be clearly identified without any confusion .
The Pentax PCF 10 x 50 PORRO model which I'm on record as postively recommending was almost certainly an earlier version , and perhaps more crucially , my impressions were formed at a time when I did NOT wear glasses .
There is also quite a selection of OPTICRON binoculars available at different price points , which I feel many of us binocular lovers could benefit from comprehensive comparitive reviews of .
I am almost certain that at least SOME of these Opticron models must be all but identical to products sold in the United States under different brand names .
I think it is often overlooked that at the same time as brand names such as Opticron , Avian , Monk Optics , Delta , Olympus and to a lesser extent , names such as Dowling and Rowe are comparitively well known in the UK , they appear to be practically unheard of in the US , whilst brands such as Eagle Optics , Orion and Leupold , almost household names in the US , are about as rare in the UK as was a Joe Donague post to the CN binocular forum .
Somehow , I can't help feeling there is a " common denominator " between some , if not all , of these brand names , and I wouldn't be at all surprised if any such links extended to the Pentax brand too .
The powers behind these more secretive aspects of the binocular industry have done a pretty good job over the years of creating the masks and maintaining the mystique , but I would guess that was a much easier status quo to uphold in the pre - internet years than it is now , and will prove to be in the future .
My understanding of logistical equations suggests to me that it would take very few " binocular experts " to unveil most of what is going on behind these operations , if only they could get their hands on , and spend a few days with samples of every model " under suspicion " .
Regards , Kenny
--------------------
Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1144
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
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Jim,
In some cases I actually noticed a reflection against strong light sources as spotlights when I tried the Activa WP FP, which I experienced as something like a "spike". There is some surface in these binoculars which produce that effect. I was wondering if it could have something to do with the slight prism interference of these models, but I am not sure. Maybe this could be the same thing you noticed when you describe: "spiking near bright objects"?
As you see in my signature I have an Oberwerk 11x70. They are great for low light conditions and dark skies. But they are in my opinion just too heavy and long for comfortable handholding, all purposes included.
In comparison to these ones every 10x50 would be more suitable and comfortable for handholding. I now understand that the Oberwerk 8x56 or 9x60 would be a more sensible purchase than the 11x70. And that the 70mm models are tripod-binoculars, which means the 15x version is a better alternative.
The reason the Minolta Activas are attractive is that they are in a more reliable performance and are waterproof, and the great ER despite the wide AFOV.
But as with all wide field binoculars I know I don't have to count on sharpness to the edge of the FOV.
Patric
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*2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Nikon Sporter I 8x36
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*Stellarvue SV50 spottingscope
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm
Psalm 19:2
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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1144
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
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Thanks Kenny!
After a long period of unemployment I have been "activated" and have for the moment not the same time to spend to Internet. I am also a member of a swedish astronomical forum in which I have been more active the last time.
Your description of the "jungle" of brands when it comes to binoculars (it's also applies telescopes) is really well-founded.
Under the name ORION you can find telescopes by both Celestron and Meade. Skywatcher is the same as Orion. Celestron is the same as Vixen...
In Sweden we have the brand ZENITH, I have not found this brand anywhere else. In its assortment of binoculars I have found binoculars of Celestron, Meade and Bushnell.
Barska is the same as oberwerk, but with a worse coating.
I know there are several more examples to find if one want to, and I don't remember all I have earlier discovered.
Regards, Patric
--------------------
*2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Nikon Sporter I 8x36
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*Stellarvue SV50 spottingscope
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm
Psalm 19:2
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dvb
different Syndrome.
Reged: 06/18/05
Posts: 5487
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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It's nice to read an appreciative review of the Minoltas.
I have the less expensive Minolta 10x50WP (not FP), but have been very impressed with them for both land and sky. Excellent coatings yield a very bright image. I like the screw-out eyecups. Not the flattest of fields. Made in the Phillipines, so an alternative to the Chinese and Japanese clones.
My view of the Andromeda galaxy with these was a highight of my summer.
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"The heaventree of stars hung with humid nightblue fruit"
James Joyce (Ulysses)
Home-built Newt:
10" f/4.5 Royce conical primary
Optical Supports Cell
Antares Optics Secondary
1800 Destiny curved spider
MoonLite focuser
Hastings Tube
Parallax and Dauzat rings
Skywatcher NEQ6, Astrotroniks tuned
iEQ45
8" f/4 Skywatcher Quattro CF
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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Bedford Falls, Pa.
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Rich,
You said you tried the Minolta Activa 8x40 WP FP. Do you remember how sharp the edges were? The edges on the 7x35 model were good to 70% out, which is very good for such a wide FOV (9.3*). The 10x50s are only good to 60%, considering its smaller FOV, that's a significantly smaller "sweet spot". In fact, the sweet spot in the 7x35s is as large as the 10x50s entire FOV!
How do the 8x40s compare? Thanks.
Brock
--------------------
Press: Are you a mod or a rocker?
Ringo: I'm a mocker
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< Do you remember how sharp the edges were? >
Regardless of Rich's impressions , I bet they weren't as sharp as the edges on my Telstar 10 x 50 .
One day , I actually cut my forefinger on the edge of the data plate attached to the prism housing :-)
Regards , Kenny
--------------------
Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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richtea
sage
Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 309
Loc: UK Yorkshire
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Hi Brocknroller
Apology for my absent mindeness
I think i may have missed replying to this question of yours but as i was trawling reviews today on CN i discovered your query ref the Minolta Activa 8 x 40 WP FP which i seem to have left somewhat hanging in the air
Anyway my impression of the 8 x 40 was indeed a minor better edge quality than the 7 x 35 model but i have to say it was only slight maybe 5% ish further out imho (but wider field obviously on 7 x)
In daytime use ie for birding aviation and general viewing etc i cant think it would stop a purchase of either model
Magnification preference might be the bigger issue for some but then again surprisingly i didnt seem to notice a huge difference from 8 x to 7 x and i certainly seem to be settling to 8-8.5 x personally of late as opposed to 10 x
I did have the opportunity to look thru both models again in the UK about 3 weeks ago via a local dealer who was very pro Minolta and found similar results somehow the 8 x 40 just seemed a bit more consistent nearer the outer view but to be fair this was daytime testing and the "checks" used were buildings trees and general panning ( i noticed the 7 x panning effect you mentioned in your post on this occassion)
i suspect for astronomy the 8 x 40 will be a tad better on holding stars at a little further to the edge (but not perfect by any means) suffice to say they both appear to be really well built and offer a lot of features/performance at the price
Sadly as ever with some models the UK cost is presently about double USA cost i can sense another Florida vacation being suggested to my Wife !
Regards
Rich
--------------------
12x Canon IS MK11 Porro
10x C/Zeiss Jenoptem/Nikon SE/E11/Swift Ultralite/Hawke B/Watch WP/ Praktica WA Porro/Olympus Wide /Brunton Porro
10 x Belomo Loupe + 10/20 x Silver Geo Loupe
10 x Celestron Regal LX Roof
9x Opticron Minerva Porro
8.5x Swift Audobon FMC Porro
8x Nikon E11/Minolta Activa WPFP/Praktica WA Porros/Smith Wesson(Pentax)Roof/Bushnell Discoverer Roofs/Olympus Wide PC Porro
7x Fujinon CDPC Roof
6.5x Pentax Papilo reverse porro
Nikon ED78A/38 x WA Scope/Eyepiece
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