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Anonymous
Unregistered
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As a relative newcomer to this telescope malarky, I just made a breakthrough in obtaining a magnificent view of Sinus Iridum/Montes Jura through a rather modest Hardin 6" reflector and wonder if this was a fluke.
I compared what I saw to numerous photographs on the web and was surprised to find that no single photograph could compare to what I saw. Is this due to the difficulties of such photography, or is it the scope?
In contrast, I've been quite dissapointed with planetary views and wonder if it is because of the f5 focal ratio. At the risk of sounding ignorant, are fast scopes optimized for lunar observations, and should I expect to continue getting so-so planetary views?
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Erix
Toad Lily
Reged: 12/25/04
Posts: 24022
Loc: Texas, USA
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Welcome to CN!
The area you viewed is indeed a magnificent area and it doesn't surprise me at all you had such a good view with your Hardin. I often use mine for lunar viewing and am never disappointed with the views.
Astrophotography is very difficult and takes lots of patience and practice to have those amazing photos. At least the case in my opinion and is one of the reasons why I hardly ever take photos. I have great appreciation for those that are involved with astrophotography.
Out of the three scope I have, the 6" DSH is my most used scope and probably even my favorite all around scope. Yes, it's a modest scope, but for the money, you can get alot of bang for the buck. The only downfall is tracking which makes it a constant struggle to keep the object in the FOV. But I'm getting used to it. It's not so difficult sketching the DSO's or Mars with it because those sketches only take me about 15-30 minutes per planet or object. But my lunar sketches are more complex and it can be a challenge with the Hardin...but not impossible.
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Erika
Automatic doors make me feel like a Jedi. 
Zhumell 16", 10" LX200 Classic,Celestron 102 XLT, ETX70-AT, DS Maxscope 60mm, AT6RC
PCW Memorial Observatory
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Thanks.
My Hardin is on an EQ, but the motor drive is expensive and I hear it's unreliable. Also, I have to say, even with effort in setting up, I still have to play with the declination axis from time to time during viewing.
I do like the Hardin though - it gets some remarkably clear images for such an inexpensive scope.
On another note, do you find Mars to be very bright? If so, what sort of filter do you suggest for making out any detail?
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Erix
Toad Lily
Reged: 12/25/04
Posts: 24022
Loc: Texas, USA
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Funny you should ask that about Mars.  I just ran across your post in the reflector's forum and have posted there with what I use for Mars... Mars viewing
I'm sure you're going to get alot of enjoyment from that Hardin. 
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Erika
Automatic doors make me feel like a Jedi.
Zhumell 16", 10" LX200 Classic,Celestron 102 XLT, ETX70-AT, DS Maxscope 60mm, AT6RC
PCW Memorial Observatory
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Gandalf
sage
Reged: 08/19/05
Posts: 423
Loc: The Library of Minas Tirith
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Fast scopes are optimised for wide-field deep sky objects, not lunar or planetary observing. They are also very critical of focusing, collimation and eyepiece quality.
You can still get great lunar views at modest magnifications if you have good optics, but if you try to push the magnification for planetary views you just do not have the same contrast as, say a six inch f8 newtonian or refractor, or an f10 SCT or f15 Maksutov-Cassegrain. Partly this is due to the large central obstruction, partly due to the short focal length (hence low magnification) and the fact that it is difficult to make and collimate a fine quality low f-ratio scope. This is not so much an issue on extended objects like nebulae where the high magification is generally not required and the brighter views obtained are more important.
By and large, lunar views in a telescope will always exceed the quality of photographs, it is just much more difficult to get a good photo than it is for the eye and brain to interpret the view through a good telescope.
On the other hand, modern webcam imaging and processing in software can tease out planetary detail that the eye may not interpret due to lack of visual contrast.
Telescope design is something of a compromise, and there is probably no one design that does everything equally well and at top quality.
~ Gandalf ~
Quote:
As a relative newcomer to this telescope malarky, I just made a breakthrough in obtaining a magnificent view of Sinus Iridum/Montes Jura through a rather modest Hardin 6" reflector and wonder if this was a fluke.
I compared what I saw to numerous photographs on the web and was surprised to find that no single photograph could compare to what I saw. Is this due to the difficulties of such photography, or is it the scope?
In contrast, I've been quite dissapointed with planetary views and wonder if it is because of the f5 focal ratio. At the risk of sounding ignorant, are fast scopes optimized for lunar observations, and should I expect to continue getting so-so planetary views?
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Stuart Williams aka Gandalf the Grey - "A star shines upon the hour of our meeting".
Meade 10" LX200GPS, ETX90AT, AR6.
The Patrick Moore Lunar Observatory: http://www.lunarobservatory.co.uk
Hi-Mag Lunar Stereo Imaging Project: http://freewebs.com/luna3d
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Tim2723
The Moon Guy
Reged: 02/19/04
Posts: 5762
Loc: Northern New Jersey
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Hi, and welcome to CN!
Staurt's comments reminded me of the old saying: "A telescope is a compromise we look through". While it's quite true that scopes optimized for lunar observing tend to be slower, the Moon offers a unique target in that it is so very bright and filled with high contrast detail. Not so for the planets, where difficulties in focus, optical corrections, and collimation become so much more important. Because of this, one can get some remarkable views of the moon through almost any telescope, while planetary views might suffer in many.
Personally, while I've seen some truly remarkable photographs from our talented CNers (and many of these are remarkable in the extreme!), I seldom see one that fully captures the visual experience.
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Intes MK-66 Deluxe (6" f/12 Maksutov)
Celestron C-102HD (4" f/10 achromat)
Celestron C-102AZ (4" f/5 achromat)
Orion 6LT (6" f/8 classic Newtonian)
Orion Apex 90 (90mm Mak spotter/grab-n-go/little fun scope)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Thanks, this makes sense, though I have to say that I'm thrilled with the wonderful details in Jura. As one of my good friends said: "Wow - it's like a big crusty bit hanging right off there...with loads of detail". Poetic.
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Tim2723
The Moon Guy
Reged: 02/19/04
Posts: 5762
Loc: Northern New Jersey
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I should have added that you mustn't be discouraged by any of this. You can get very satisfying planetary performance out of an f/5, but it just takes more work than looking at the Moon. Be sure to visit the reflectors and equipment forums for the best advice on getting your collimation dead on for planetary viewing if you're having any difficulty in that respect. Spot-on collimation is critical for viewing Mars at its best.
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Intes MK-66 Deluxe (6" f/12 Maksutov)
Celestron C-102HD (4" f/10 achromat)
Celestron C-102AZ (4" f/5 achromat)
Orion 6LT (6" f/8 classic Newtonian)
Orion Apex 90 (90mm Mak spotter/grab-n-go/little fun scope)
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Thanks for the encouragement.
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Gandalf
sage
Reged: 08/19/05
Posts: 423
Loc: The Library of Minas Tirith
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There's no reason to be at all discouraged if your 'scope is not perfect for a particular job - use it to its best, just have fun, and remember, with the Moon "Failure is Not an Option..." 
~ Gandalf ~
Quote:
Thanks, this makes sense, though I have to say that I'm thrilled with the wonderful details in Jura. As one of my good friends said: "Wow - it's like a big crusty bit hanging right off there...with loads of detail". Poetic.
--------------------
Stuart Williams aka Gandalf the Grey - "A star shines upon the hour of our meeting".
Meade 10" LX200GPS, ETX90AT, AR6.
The Patrick Moore Lunar Observatory: http://www.lunarobservatory.co.uk
Hi-Mag Lunar Stereo Imaging Project: http://freewebs.com/luna3d
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desertstars
Reged: 11/05/03
Posts: 41911
Loc: Tucson, AZ
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I'm using an f/4.9 Newtonian, and when I keep the collimation just right (takes a little tweaking every time out, but nothing that can't be handled in about 5 minutes) the views of the Moon are stunning. As a friend said last week, on the topic of Mars in the 'newt, "Don't write off a newtonian just because it's fast!"
Very good views of Mars, too, by the way. 
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Thomas Watson
Author of Mr. Olcott's Skies. Available in paperback and ebook from Amazon and Barnes & Noble.
@desertstarsbks
Under Desert StarsEither Way, It's Reading
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