Anonymous
Unregistered
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Ok so I am still on the look out for a bino, as per my previous post the 3 bino’s I was looking at seemed to not get any recommendations. Also, there was some talk that a 8x40 or 8x42 bino will work well for astronomy. I have always read (in books) that 50mm is a minimum for astronomy, but I know a lot more about telescopes than I do binoculars. I have some 10x50 Bushnells (very cheap ones and now are poorly collimated) Even when new, I could not hold 10x steady enough for my tastes. So I spent some time and looked for some new binoculars. This is what I want in a binocular.
1. First and foremost decent optics.
2. Hold collimation, I really do not want them going out of collimation and if possible one that I would never need to worry about it.
3. Build quality decent and rugged build quality.
4. Compactness, and light weight, this is self explanatory.
I have also read in the past that roof prisms usually aren’t suitable to astronomy, if that is not the case, I do like their compactness. Also I would like to mention that I do want to use the binoculars I purchase for terrestrial use too; I frequent the Rocky Mountains in Colorado in the summer and would love some bino’s to take in the breathtaking views of the mountains. I originally was looking for binoculars in the range of less then $100, my new set are in the $130-$180 range. Any suggestions on these? I would like to add I also plan on working on my AL Messier binocular certificate.
1. Pentax PCF II 8x40
2. Pentax DCF HS 8x36
3. Nikon Action EX Extreme 7x50
4. Leupold Wind River 8x42
5. Eagle Optics Denali PC 8x42
6. Audubon Vector 8x42
7. Audubon Raptor 8x42
8. Audubon Intrepid 8x40
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Telebandit ,
Broadening your price bracket to just below $200 and narrowing down your model choice to 7x or 8x models SHOULD make it easier for others to offer forth a few comments or further suggestions .
It is not true that Roof prism models are not suitable for astronomy , but it is true there are a lot of old wives in circulation :-)
One major " problem " with roof prism models is that unless they are phase corrected ( coatings on prism surfaces ) they cannot and will not compete with a Porro prism model from the same price bracket .
Even WITHOUT phase correction , it costs more to manufacture a roof prism binocular , so pound for pound , PORROS are comfortably the best provider of optical quality .
The VERY best ( and most expensive ) roof prism models now available from Leica , Nikon , Swarovski and Zeiss are probably at LEAST as good optically as the very best porros , but also , generally speaking , cost almost twice as much , on a size v size basis .
If I were restricted to $180 I don't think I'd even bother trying to find a ROOF prism model .
I would concentrate on Porros in the 8 x 40 / 8 x 42 range .
I don't believe I have ever actually looked through ANY of those 8 binoculars on your list , so it would be silly for me to comment on any specific models .
I hope someone else can help , but I'm still doubtful that ALL FOUR of your REQUIREMENTS can be found in the sub $200 price bracket .
In ANY price bracket , those properties RUGGED , COMPACT and LIGHTWEIGHT can rarely be found , and especially when coupled with QUALITY OPTICS .
Personally , I'd make EVERY effort possible to find extra money available for such a purpose .
A REALLY good binocular can provide a lifetime of pleasure .
It must be much more satisfying to get it right first time .
Many of us here have learned that lesson the " even more expensive " way !
Good luck in your quest .
Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Thanks Kenny,
On my original post I did not mean I was looking for 7x only, I just think 10x is to hard for me to hold steady. Also the qualities I listed are what I am looking for, no mater what you do in life almost everything is a compromise, the qualities that are most important to me are #1 and 2, the other to #3 and #4 are number such because I feel 1 and 2 are more important factors to me.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Kenny touched on just about everything I would have said. 50mm is definitely NOT a minimum for useful or enjoyable binocular astronomy. Your choices of 7x and 8x are prefectly. I agree that for your stated budget it may be difficult to find porro binoculars that cover ALL of your desires. [And yes, don't bother with roof bins for less than $200.] In fact, when I was reading your list, the first bins to pop in my mind were 7x50 Fujinons. They'll be all be more than $200, but some models may not be much more. They will also meet ALL of your criteria.
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 4066
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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TB,
I do a lot of air travel each year and I also prefer the more compact design of Roof Prism myself. GOOD quality RP binos work fine for astronomy but as KJ said, they cost more than porro prisms of the same size. Expect to spend ~25-50% more.
I purchased 4 pair of Roof Prisms in the last few years. All of them have phase coating. I now consider PC a must for RPs. A decent pair of 42 mm with phase coating cost ~$250:
http://www.adorama.com/CN842N.html?searchinfo=celestron%20noble%20binocular&item_no=2
Oberwerk does have a pair of 8X42 Roofs with PC for under $200. I do not have first hand experience with them but I have had good experience with other Oberwerks products:
http://bigbinoculars.com/0842.htm
I did order a pair of EO Denali 10X42s roofs with phase coating ($169)last year. I RETURNED them. I will post my impressions in another thread when I have time.
Among the 8X42 Porro Prisms you listed the Audubon Raptor with 8.2 deg FOV is the most interesting to me.
Oberwerk and EO both have excellent customer service with "no questions" return policy. I would not hesitate to purchase from either one. Also had very good luck with Adorama. Ordered a pair of Minolta 8X25 compacts from Adorama on Wed this week, received confirmation and tracking the same day. They were deliverd on Thursday am.
Erik D
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edwincjones
Close Enough
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 7980
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The fujinon 7x50s are heavy, and more difficult to hand hold (not to mention more than $200). I have been pleased with Swift Audabon 8.5x44s, which cost a little more at $240 new for the non-ED glass and a hundred more for ED
edj
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Phil Wheeler
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 12/31/05
Posts: 2018
Loc: 3 miles WNW of Celestron
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I just receive a pair of KM 7x35 WP-FP which are well build and give wonderful wide views. $135 at B&H.
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Phil / W7OX
NexStar 8SE
WO 10th Anniversary ZS-80FD APO, UA Microstar; Manfrotto tripod
Celestron ASGT Eq Mount
Celestron C5+ on original Equatorial Mount
Stellarvue SV50 "Little Rascal" for air travel; UA DwarfStar and small photo tripod
Coronado P.S.T., used on NexStar 8SE mount or Manfrotto 410 geared head
Lunt LS60/B1200/C/PT mounted as above
Binos: Ob 15x70, UA Unimount; Canon 12x36 IS II
Cameras: DMK31; Canon 7D & 60Da; Panasonic FZ200; Celestron NexImage; Vixen Polarie mount
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I admit the 7x50 Fujis are relatively heavier, but IMO not enough to make a big difference. I had already mentioned the price being greater than $200. Some of the mil spec 7x50 fujinon bins will run you about $450 I believe. The "regular" version is about half that.
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Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 17931
Loc: Oort Cloud 9
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Whoever said the minimum aperture for meaningful binocular-astronomy is 50mm, must be privvy to some wisdom that eludes me. Some of my most casual and enjoyable views of the stars have come while reclining in my adirondack chair, puffing a cigar, and scanning with my 8x42 porros.
I have never owned anything smaller than 8x42, so I cannot comment on the 7x35 and the like, but I can recommend an 8x42 porro as easy to hand-hold for the average adult.
MikeG
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Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
☄ ⒼⒶⓁⒶⒸⓉⒾⒸ ⓈⓉⓄⓃⒺ ☞ www.galactic-stone.com
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Barry Fernelius
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/28/04
Posts: 656
Loc: Rancho Santa Margarita, Califo...
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Look at used binoculars on Astromart. Here are a couple of choices:
Pentax 10x50
Celestron 7x42
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The real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes, but in having new eyes. -Proust
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Telebandit DID say he was also intending to enjoy whatever he gets as a result of this enquiry for DAYTIME TERRESTRIAL use .
Whilst I have little doubt that Fujinon FMT SX 7 x 50s WOULD provide BREATHTAKING views of the Rocky Mountains in Colorada , I would not like to HAUL one of those around for too long , nor would I recommend individual focussing models for GENERAL day to day use .
But , mounted on my Manfrotto 055B tripod and 501 head , individual focus or not , do I enjoy LONG DISTANT VIEWING through that Captain's Helmsman 7 x 50 ?
You can bet your life I do :-)
In fact , a couple of hours ago , when I first saw this thread , I was tempted to suggest the Helmsman .
Then I considered the words COMPACT , LIGHTWEIGHT and UP TO $180 maximum .
But if you want QUALITY , ROBUSTNESS and PEACE OF MIND -- for around $250 , you'd struggle to find better IMHO .
Regards , Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Can you say Revelation? Well, I can I had a revelation today driving back to work from lunch. I was thinking about binoculars and then my telescopes. Then it dawned on me, I have a $300 eyepiece and a few in the $200-$275 range. Thats ONE eyepiece and here I am being a cheapskate trying to skimp on binoculars that essentially have TWO eyepieces and TWO small telescopes and a focuser. So maybe I need to get off my duff and be a little less frugal and be willing to spend a little more for quaility. I am sure this is music to you bino guys ears beacuse Im sure you guys get asked alot of questions like is this cheap binocular for $XXX worth buying. With that being said. Are then Pentax PCF WP II 8x40 decent? For $150 they seem like a bargain, BAK4 fully mulit-coated ect. I think I need to be in the $200-300 dollar realm (for the most part) to actually get what I am looking for. I am open to suggestions. Thanks again!! 
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Scott Beith
SRF
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 42898
Loc: Frederick, MD
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I did a mini review of the 8X42 Obies. It may help.
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   SLAP Observer --- TMB130SS, SV102V(LOMO Lens), SV80ED Deluxe
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
"The measure of a man’s greatness is not determined by what he accomplishes for himself, but by what he accomplishes for others.” -- Some Bald Guy
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Ill go check it out Scott.
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Jay_Bird
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/04/06
Posts: 1493
Loc: Nevada, USA 36N 115W
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Well, the $250 budget puts you into price of nice new Swift Audobon 8.5x44. Eagle Optics has a "click to have our best price e-mailed" feature that's very competitive...
or the Captain's Helmsman for that matter...
Christophers/Astronomics has their last 7x42 Swift ultralight (store demo) listed for under $140...
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'these things stand like stone - kindness in another's troubles, courage in your own' Gordon
C-8, SV80 & C102 achros, 6" Newt, Porta & GEM, Lunt 35; Binoculars 21mm-80mm & p-gram
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DJB
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1742
Loc: Lisle NY
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Hi NW,
Your dollar figures are close on the FUJIs. The "regular" models do not receive the EBC coatings of the more expensive versions, even tho each version can be nitrogen purged and waterproof. Close to the MIL spec.
Regards,
DAve.
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timt
member
Reged: 10/09/05
Posts: 30
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I haven't heard anyone say a lot of good about the Minolta Activa's. I have a pair of 12x50 activa's and love them. I owned a pair of 15x70 Fujis and I didn't like as well. I also had the Pentax 16x60's? and Tak 20x60's.The activa's are light and my particular pair have pin point images with no color. I prefer the Minolta Activa's over everything I have had, I don't think I will ever part with them. I don't know the new price but I picked mine up for around $100 used but like new.
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 4066
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Tim,
Are you making a recommendation for a pair of low power Minolta Activa or making a general comment?
Minolta Activa's have received favorable mention in another thread, but the person who posed the question stated he has reservations about holding 10X50s and would like something less bulky for terrestrial use as well.....The 12X50s MAY be hand holdable for some but the other binos listed above would need a mount. Not sure how they relate to orginal question....
BTW, did you mean Fujinon 16 X 70 and Takahashi 22 X 60?
Erik D
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edwincjones
Close Enough
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 7980
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telebandit,
let us know you final decision
edj
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
telebandit,
let us know you final decision
edj
Will do!
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