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lighttrap
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
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Have you ever heard the adage that you shouldn't look through optics you aren't prepared to buy? Well, it's true. This weekend, one of the guys I chauffered around on some birding field trips had both the Zeiss Victory FL 8x42, and the older, non-FL 10x56s. When I noticed that he was leaving the 10x56s on the floor of my vehicle, down where there was lots of sand and grit and other optics killers, I suggested that he might want to put them away if he wasn't going to use them. Instead, he asked if I wanted to use them. Did I? Heck yeah. So, for a couple hours I had some honking big Zeisses hanging off a harness.
These are amazingly bright. Compared to Swift Kestrel 10x50s, the Zeiss are notably brighter even in very bright midday sunshine. The big Zeiss are heavy, but with a bino harness, it really wasn't all that bad, and their 42+ oz. weight seems well distributed, and they are quite ergonomic to hold and handle. That said, I wasn't terribly impressed with the focuser, as it seemed a little stiff, but I'm sure I could get used to it. One thing that impressed me was their generous 6.3* FOV. It was like having a very nice, extremely clear window on the world where colors seemed supersaturated.
I did notice some edge distortion at the extreme edges, but honestly, I had to look for it, and it was minimal. Seeing such colorful birds as Blackburnian warblers, Indigo buntings, a Scarlet tanager, yellow warblers, etc. through these was almost better than having the bird in the hand. I didn't get to try these at dawn or dusk or in low light, but I bet they'd excel. Chances are, I'll get more time with these, as I expect to go on more trips with this fellow.
The owner of these, wears glasses, and the rubber eyecups were almost worn through where they folded back. I would think that bins in this price range would have twist up eyecups. Perhaps newer versions do.
All in all, these were very impressive bins. But, being priced at $1500, they're surely not for everybody. And frankly, priced that high, I might've expected a better overall package. But, in terms of optical quality, these are VERY impressive. The current owner has suggested that he might one day consider selling, so we'll see. I'm sure I could get used to a set of these. 
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18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5618
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Thanks for the report, lighttrap!
It looks like the latest version of the Zeiss 10x56 has pop up or twist up eyecups.
http://www.zeiss.co.uk/c12567a80033f8e4/Contents-Frame/9a7c62f395e8b0dcc1256f27003e957a
Rich
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Interesting to read about this Mike !
I was PARTICULARLY interested to read that you could NOTICE an increase in image brightness through this 10 x 56 when compared to a ( very good ) 10 x 50 , EVEN IN BRIGHT MIDDAY SUNLIGHT !
As you know better than most , Mike , THAT is JUST the kind of thing I've been saying for YEARS -- but very few fellow binocular afficianodos seem to accept it :-)
There is SOMETHING about EVERY top of the range ZEISS binocular ( and scope ) I've looked through that provides an impression of EXTRA , almost SUPREME " brightness " when compared against even the VERY best of the REST !
I'm not suggesting for one moment that such brightness is the " be all and end all " of optics -- far from it ! -- but I'm just surprised that MORE people don't seem to notice it , as IMMEDIATELY and OBVIOUSLY as you and I do .
I hope you manage to get more time looking through these Mike .
Regards , Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Swedpat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/18/05
Posts: 1144
Loc: Boden, Sweden, Scandinavia
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Quote:
Have you ever heard the adage that you shouldn't look through optics you aren't prepared to buy?
Yes, Lighttrap. I have actually invented this expression myself when I the first time (in the early 90:s) in my life tried a Swarovski porro 8x56 and the Zeiss Classic 7x42. I then understood that it's a big risk included when looking through real good binoculars. If you are not prepared to sell your car for getting the binocular, don't even try it...;-)
Patric
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*2,3x40 Constellation View Wide-Bino
*Leupold Katmai 6x32
*Nikon Sporter I 8x36
*Swarovski SLCNew 7x42B
*Bresser (Lidl) 10x50
*Oberwerk 11x70
*Stellarvue SV50 spottingscope
*Meade 5000 26mm Plössl, Vixen LV 10/5mm
Psalm 19:2
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lighttrap
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
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Patric, I don't know whether it's a fortunate thing, or a somewhat bittersweet thing to be more and more surrounded by folks that have really, really nice gear to try. Sometimes, it's humorous, as in being around absolute newbies who have multi-thousand dollar optics setups in both their binos and their scopes, who don't know even the common birds. Sometimes it's humbling to be around those who know far more than I, who are using 20 year old Tasco junk bins.
Kenny,
You might appreciate why this guy owns the Zeiss 10x56's. He's partially color blind and finds that with the increased light transmittance, he can better differentiate red and green from brown. Interestingly, he started with the non-FL 10x56's, then got the 8x42 FLs and says that for him, they've largely replaced the need for the 10x56's, but he's considering getting the 10x56 FLs anyway. (Must be nice to casually talk of swapping $1500 bin for $1800 bin.) Personally, while I didn't look for false color in the 10x56's, I didn't see any, either. But, then, considering I'm used to looking through the extremely CA prone Swift Kestrels, with their funhouse mirror effect edge distortions, perhaps that's to be expected.
It seems to have taken Zeiss a long time to get traction in the local market, but I'm seeing more and more of them. I think that is far more a reflection of marketing and territorial distribution, than of optics quality. Like you, Kenny, I've been impressed with the optical quality of most of the Zeiss products I've seen. Sometimes, their overall package doesn't appeal to me as much as other high end mfrs.
As for another comparison, I'm not really sure that the Zeiss 10x56 would offer me all that much more in real, practical terms that the 1/2 price Nikon 12x50 SEs offer. I did all to briefly compare them. Sure, the Zeiss offer better light gathering, a wider FOV, have better close focus and are waterproof, but they are also significantly heavier and more expensive. Plus, I already own the SEs. But, those Zeiss sure were nice. (Sounds like something Kenny said many moons ago.)
Mike
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18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
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ngc6475
Fearless Spectator
Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 5024
Loc: 38°21'N 120°55'W
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"Sure, the Zeiss offer better light gathering, a wider FOV, have better close focus and are waterproof, but..."
Oh, Mike, all this time I thought I liked my SEs and now I feel...inadequate! Sigh...
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Walter
"There are nights when the wolves are silent and only the moon howls."
-George Carlin
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DJB
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/23/05
Posts: 1742
Loc: Lisle NY
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Hi guys,
Very interesting. Perhaps the binocular had especially good contrast and, therefore, detail rather than brightness, per se? A number of possibilities come to mind.
I do know that my 7x50 BINON does appear brighter in daytime, and I agree with Kenny on this one--always have. I just don't care for the obvious FOV distortions in the BINON--all I will say here.
The only ZEISS optics that I use are several intended for microscopy, and THEY ARE SURPERB, hands down. The Weitzlers (sp?) come in second place.
Regards all, and nice thread,
Dave.
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edwincjones
Close Enough
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 7980
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I went to the grand opening of a new sporting goods store in the area and tried a Swarovski 8.5x43 EL-it felt SOOOOOOOOOOOOO0000000000000000000000000 good in my hands.
edj
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Steve Napier
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/04
Posts: 1559
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Mike,the latest 10x56s and 12x56 Victories NOT FL have the twist up eye cups.
Imagine how good the 10x56 FL is!
The focus wheel design of the Victory 10x56 and 12x56 is appalling.
The new 10x56FL has the same big focus wheel as all the other FL models.
Steve.
Edited by Steve Napier (05/03/06 10:10 AM)
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Steve ,
Your last post has CONVINCED me , that rather than you save up for THREE YEARS to buy me that T.V 102mm scope and those T.V eyepieces you promised to buy me , I will be happy to accept , instead , the far lower priced Victory 10 x 56 FL .
This should give you enough time for me to receive it by this coming Christmas !
I can hardly WAIT now ! :-)
Regards , Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Steve Napier
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/04
Posts: 1559
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Kenny,nothing would please me more but,I think the 10x56FL might cost more than the TV 102 AND the EPs!
Steve.
P.S. I"ve seen a 10x56 Victory "Live" as it were,unfortunately I didn"t have the chance to look through it but,the centre focus wheel looked a nightmare,
I imagine trying to focus with gloves in Winter to be a real problem,simply not enough of the wheel comes into contact for an assured grip,it just skims the top.
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Steve Napier
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/04
Posts: 1559
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Kenny,is there any special reason why you are so taken with the 56mm objective?
I would have thought you would of prefered a 32mm model for your daytime observing,I know that 90% of your observing is during the day.
Steve.
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< Kenny,is there any special reason why you are so taken with the 56mm objective? >
Steve ,
My MAIN reason is that the 56mm is going to COST YOU MORE to buy for me than a 32mm or 42mm model , but in spite of several factors in favour of the SMALLER exit pupil , especially given my age and my chief use for daytime viewing , I continue to like very much the " ease " of using top quality binoculars with LARGER exit pupils .
There are also times when I like viewing around dusk .
I've also grown to quite enjoy the " challenge " of holding and carrying around a heftier glass , such as the 12 x 60 !
More seriously though , there is SOMETHING about having a LARGER binocular , with modest magnification and 5mm plus exit pupil , MOUNTED on the 501 type of head , which I find SO RELAXING and enjoyable that words can't really explain the feeling adequately , especially to fellow binocular enthusiasts who prefer higher magnification and SMALL exit pupils :-)
One can always MASK down a larger binocular if need be .
There's not much one can do to ENLARGE a binocular's objectives , if the need arises , at least not with most modern styles of binoculars .
There WAS a time when the objective tubes could simply be screwed in and out and swapped over for fun between CERTAIN models with identical threads .
I wish there were more models between which objectives AND eyepieces could be swapped around for fun ! :-)
Regards , Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Steve Napier
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/04
Posts: 1559
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So what make/model do you want me to buy you Kenny?
I can go up to £20.
Steve.
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< So what make/model do you want me to buy you Kenny?
I can go up to £20.>
That is very generous of you Steve .
After giving the matter due thought , I will settle for a Zeiss 7 x 42 FL with Kitty Wake droppings on both ojective lenses .
That ought to be worth around £20 on the Used and Abused market .
Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Steve Napier
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/04
Posts: 1559
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Kenny,Im being serious.
I sometimes travel to the car boot sale site in Blaydon {No races there anymore} and there are always lots of binoculars on offer,what specification would most interest you?
After all the things/favours you have done for me its the least I can do.
Steve.
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Steve ,
Please see my PM to you .
I'd hate members to get the wrong impression here by reading your above post , Steve .
Some of them may start thinking I'm HELPFUL or GENEROUS :-)
If anything , it's ME that owes YOU , Steve -- and several other CN members , for sure .
If I ever win that lotto jackpot , those who have been kind and generous to me will be repaid with great interest !
Regards , Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Steve Napier
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/10/04
Posts: 1559
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Great stuff Kenny.
I suggest,numbers 2,17,21,36,41,and 47.
Good luck.
Steve.
P.S. Thanks for all those German DvDs too.
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