pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 2447
Loc: Connecticut
|
|
It's interesting that people object to Roland marketing a binocular built overseas. Maybe I was sleeping, did anyone like the 7x50 version?
It seemed to me that Roland looked around for a good 70mm or 80mm bino for himself. Something like a Fujinon with good optics and well built. He said these satisfy his requirements for a large bino. So he wants to make these available through his company. Does anyone know what APM sells theirs for? I've read $500+, but I don't know the exchange rate and tax/shipping info. $350 doesn't sound terrible for a good quality bino if it's competitive with Fujinon products.
Is it just because he doesn't make them himself? Or is it which country they come from? I know many here are worried that we are driving out the top line makers by buying less expensive, lower quality equipment.
Are we saying Roland can't recognize a good quality product? If he has found a good product and wants to sell it a reasonable price, what's wrong with that. Whether it has a AP sticker on it or not doesn't change the quality of the product.
I knew you guys would be interested in this news. Lets see what happens.
Peter
--------------------
Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 12 - 100 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
|
Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5618
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
|
|
He could market Astro-Physics dancing shoes, tooth paste, etc. Maybe an AP version of some hot car? That might be cool.
I'll wait and see but I would like these binoculars to be more than just something you could find from another company under different name.
I seldom use my 15x63 because I have a hard time holding it steady. A straight through binocular is hard to use on a photo tripod. At $350 I don't optics would be something special.
Rich
|
milt
professor emeritus
Reged: 09/13/04
Posts: 603
Loc: Arizona
|
|
Quote:
He [Roland] could market Astro-Physics dancing shoes
Hi Rich,
I'll be first on the waiting list. Have you priced dancing shoes lately? 
Seriously, I think Roland is creating unneeded hassle for himself by attaching his company's name to a product he has so little control over. He will have to 100% screen the bino's and will no doubt reject more than do most rebranders. I can already see him butting heads with the supplier. Who needs the grief?
Best regards,
Milt
|
KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
|
|
I would have hoped that any binoculars bearing the name Astro-Physics would have been something rather UNIQUE , or at least SPECIAL , such as MADE IN BRITAIN , ANGLED APOs at ridiculously expensive prices ! :-)
Kenny
--------------------
Milton Wilcox R.I.P
|
edwincjones
Close Enough
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 7980
|
|
or, maybe, just maybe, he has found a quality manufacturer of binoculars in China
optimestic edj
--------------------
|
Sgt
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 12/17/05
Posts: 1027
Loc: Under the southern horn of the...
|
|
I really like the idea of Astro-Physics dancing shoes.
Pcad,
Easily found on http://web26.h137151.serverkompetenz.net/html/
410 euro for export both 10.5x70 and 15x70.
|
EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
|
|
I saw $449E and $479E. That's about $550US and $600US.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
|
pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 2447
Loc: Connecticut
|
|
Here we have two companies in the US, Astro-Physics and Oberwerk. Let's assume Roland decides to market a Chinese made 70mm binocular. Kevin B. has received praise for doing exactly what Roland C. is proposing. Are we saying that if these binos came from Kevin they would be acceptable?
APM sells some extremely high quality telescopes. Some are considered to be in the same cost-is-no-object class as AP scopes. I don't hear any complaints about Marcus L. selling similar binoculars.
What happens when it becomes obvious that Chinese companies can make world class binoculars? Would it make any differance?
Peter
--------------------
Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 12 - 100 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
|
Rick
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 3285
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
|
|
Well they seem to be the same bino I posted about a few days ago here, http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/937076/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1
I'm less convinced they use ED glass now too. "ED" is not printed on the prism housing and other than using "ED" in the model number there is no other mention in the description. They just say the glass has "special optical properties" that gives images with saturated color, high contrast and brightness.
And the United Optical site doesn't say anything about "ED" either.
clear skies,
Rick
|
pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 2447
Loc: Connecticut
|
|
Rick,
Elsewhere on a differant site, Roland said that if the binos had ED glass, they'd be near $1000. He also felt that using ED glass would not increase the performance enough to justify the cost. I never said they would use ED glass. Did someone else say they would? Or are we assuming that just because there is a ED version of the 7x50, that all binos in this style would be ED?
Peter
--------------------
Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 12 - 100 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
|
Glassthrower
Vendor - Galactic Stone & Ironworks
Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 17931
Loc: Oort Cloud 9
|
|
Quote:
What happens when it becomes obvious that Chinese companies can make world class binoculars? Would it make any differance?
They'll put Fujinon and Zeiss out of business, that's what. But, I don't think anyone has to worry about that soon....in a few more years, who knows?
It's interesting to me that the first reaction among experienced gearheads is that anything Chinese is low-quality (binoculars) ... Ironic, since for most of the Americans in this forum, our homes are packed to the rafters with Chinese consumer goods bought at the local Walmart. I guess China is good enough to furnish our homes and clothe our children, but not good enough to make a binocular that isn't met with derision long before it even makes an actual appearance. If we applied this same principle to a human being, we'd be accused of being JUDGEMENTAL and/or harsh.
Personally, I look forward to the day when the Chinese can produce a respectable binocular - us poor slobs would like to buy a good binocular without cashing in our 401k funds.
MikeG
--------------------
Michael Gilmer - Member of the Meteoritical Society & Collector of Falling Stars.
☄ ⒼⒶⓁⒶⒸⓉⒾⒸ ⓈⓉⓄⓃⒺ ☞ www.galactic-stone.com
|
Alan French
Night Owl
Reged: 01/28/05
Posts: 4009
Loc: Upstate NY
|
|
I don't know if they will put Fujinon or Zeiss our of business - these companies may simply start having components or complete binoculars made in China. Perhaps they are moving in that direction now.
Back when the Japanese started competing in electronics and optics there were obvious quality issues. Some of the Chinese products are extremely well made. If I was a company still making products here, I'd be very concerned.
Clear skies, Alan
|
Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5618
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
|
|
Quote:
Here we have two companies in the US, Astro-Physics and Oberwerk. Let's assume Roland decides to market a Chinese made 70mm binocular. Kevin B. has received praise for doing exactly what Roland C. is proposing. Are we saying that if these binos came from Kevin they would be acceptable?
APM sells some extremely high quality telescopes. Some are considered to be in the same cost-is-no-object class as AP scopes. I don't hear any complaints about Marcus L. selling similar binoculars.
What happens when it becomes obvious that Chinese companies can make world class binoculars? Would it make any differance?
Peter
Attaching a German name to a non-German made binocular makes me quesiton not only the product but the company that would do this.
Rich
|
brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Bedford Falls, Pa.
|
|
I can understand why some people might be disturbed that a high-end telescope maker would sell Chinese binoculars, particularly if he or she owned one of their upscale telescopes. It would be like owning a Mercedes and finding out that the company plans to market a Chinese-made economy car under its label.
FUTURE SHOCK: That day may not be far off. Daimler-Chrysler plans to market the ZAP Smart two-seater in the US.
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/002565.html
While the car is currently made in Europe, ZAP recently signed a deal with China to be the first to import production cars from China. Could it be long before Daimler-Chrysler markets ZAP's Chinese imports in the US?
http://www.ewire.com/display.cfm/Wire_ID/1747
China is HOT. It's the new Japan, and America is the world's largest consumer market. Google is now BETA testing its Chinese-English translator (needs work!). AP is forward-thinking in marketing Chinese bins though some of its telescope customers may feel spurned by this venture.
The other trend this development shows is the growing popularity of binocular astronomy. Twenty years ago, the selection of large aperture binoculars was slim. Even 10 years ago, only a few companies carried big Chinese bins. Today, optics companies worldwide are selling big Chinese bins and even proudly slapping their label on them.
Chinese optics are continually improving. The big lag has been in mediocre to poor quality mechanics. With mil spec Fuji-like construction, these new Chinese bins may start closing the gap with European and Japanese bin makers.
While globalization has a dark side, the upshot is that for those of us who can't afford high-class European and Japanese binoculars, the maturing of Chinese optics manufacturing is a welcomed change.
Those who demand the finest quality optics and mechanics and have the deep pockets to afford them need not worry. Mercedes and BMW are still around more than 30 years after Japan started importing economy cars to the US and more recently, making luxury cars. Zeiss, Swarovski, Leica, etc. will survive the Chinese optics revolution, though they too may be forced to start an affordable line of bins to stay competitive in the new global maketplace.
--------------------
Press: Are you a mod or a rocker?
Ringo: I'm a mocker
|
Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 16724
Loc: Oort Cloud
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Is there anyone in the United States that still makes binoculars, including the optics, here?
Clear skies, Alan
Last year Bill C. bet that the group that no one could come up with a U.S. company that made binoculars in-house. He has yet to have to pay.
These are kinda big, but...
American-made Binocs
(Where do I collect on the bet? )
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and two curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
|
EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
|
|
Clive,
where are the 6" or 10" or 16" newtonian mirrors for the RB made.
JMI states he gets most of his 12.5" NGT mirrors from Intermountain Optical, but there is no mention (anywhere that I could find) of where the mirrors for the RBs come from.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
|
Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5618
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
|
|
Hi Brocknroller,
What you say may well be true but I don't like the "global marketplace". I certainly don't like it's current form.
I do my best to "vote" with my purchases. YMMV
Rich
|
Rick
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/12/05
Posts: 3285
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
|
|
If I was RC, Rich's opinion would weigh heavily on any decision I would be making in regard to selling Chinese binos 
I think RC spending even 10 minutes of his time "inspecting" a $350 bino would be a shamefull waste of his talent. Build more scopes I say!
clear skies,
Rick
|
EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
|
|
Ya know what I find interesting.
No one really has first hand information about the supplier that Roland is dealing with. While it looks very much to some like a United or Kunming product he has stated it is a very small Chinese manufacturer. That doesn't sound like Kunming to me. Nor do I know if it is Kasai. And he has reported preliminary testing data as compared to a number of other Chinese and Japanese binoculars. The results were fairly impresive, if you'd care to put any trust in what Roland thinks of optics. I would. It may not be the same binocular as we have all seen that is currently available from any number of sources. Of course if anyone had bothered to read what he wrote about it, you might know that.
But that hasn't stopped some from damning him for even suggesting this potential business venture.
But hey, that's a public forum for ya. Say what ya want, regardless of what ya know.
Me, I'd like to wait and see if a little more information comes out.
just my 2 sense.
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
|
photonovore
Moonatic
Reged: 12/24/04
Posts: 2792
Loc: tacoma wa
|
|
Eh, business is all about cashing in on name recognition! Get a container of binoculars that wholesale for 25$ a pair and turn them around for 350$ each? (In case anyone thinks that this is an unrealistic markup, i'd remind everyone that Jena Zeiss was making binos for 25$US that the West Genman Zeiss company would have priced at 1000$ had they made the sdame thing--and Jena paid more than a couple bucks a day for labor, too.) Anyway, a sucessful binocular division would not be small change for a sole proprietorship outfit--and no one there is getting any younger either. Time to make some hay while the sun shines? It would be a nice cash flow source actually. People will snap them up *just because* of the name--that's typical consumer behavior one sees all the time (ask Harley-Davidson).
People get in business to make money--attaching altruistic motives to business people is a bit silly really--the sucessful ones will diversify into markets with more volume--they'll push the limits of quality vis a vis name reputation in the interest of the bottom line too (or they go out of business  ). That's the real difference between 350$ binoculars and 10,000$ APO refractors--volume. Can't fault business for acting like--a business!
--------------------
Mardi
4" achromat, ETX-70, 8"cat.
Whitepeak Lunar Observatory Website
|
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
[Re: 
Edit
Reply
Quote
