BillFerris
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/17/04
Posts: 3587
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I'm also in the "no single scope is best" camp. I often bring a 4.5-inch eq. Newt to my club's public star parties. It's convenient for me and compliments the other scopes, which are usually between 6- and 10-inches in aperture. My little Meade 4500 gives folks a taste of what a common "first telescope" can do. And on the Moon, it does just fine. (People get more excited by a first view of the Moon through any telescope than they do in response to just about any other object--possible exception of Saturn--in any aperture.) And the equatorial head gives me the opportunity to talk a little about different mounts.
Last month, I did bring the 18-inch Obsession to a public event and it was a big hit. People had lots of questions about it and the amateur astronomers definitely enjoyed getting a taste of large aperture. I had a blast being able to grant object requests with the touch of a button. And with the 24-inch Clark stopped down to about 12-inches, mine was the largest aperture in the yard that night 
But really, just about any telescope can be great for public viewings. The real key to a successful event, are the volunteers, their enthusiasm, knowledge and ability to communicate.
Regards,
Bill in Flagstaff
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Grand Canyon Adventure
Lowering the Threshold
18" Obsession
4.5" Meade 4500
10x50 Swift Audubon
Cosmic Voyage
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pay1439
super member
Reged: 02/21/05
Posts: 111
Loc: Kalispell, Montana
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I attended a starparty a few years ago to 'test' out the scopes...I had an 80mm refractor at home, and wanted to be able to look through other scopes that I might be able to afford. I do remember looking through a big dob, don't remember what size it was but had to go several steps up a stepladder. It was neat to be able to view through it, but realistically not something I could afford, so I spent more time looking through 4"-10" scopes. So depending on the reason the person went to the party, no scope will be perfect. This will be my second starparty, and the first I actually take my own scopes to (80mm and 8" SCT). But being more 'seasoned' now and with a decent scope, you can bet that I'll be looking for that 30" dob in the field just for the viewing!
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Ted
Meade LX10 8" w/UHTC
Celestron 80mm refractor
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Bunny
super member
Reged: 03/13/05
Posts: 151
Loc: U.K. Midlands
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I have to agree, there is always a place for smaller scopes at star parties, if only to show interested newcomers what is available for little more than the cost of a department store scope, or in some cases, less. At least you can steer newcomers away from purchasing something that may not fulfil their hopes, and save them wasting money, whilst allowing them to experience what modest equipment can show them.
One store over here in the UK, which is considered to give good value on most products, was selling Tasco 4.5 inch f8 reflectors on an EQ1, for around £250 (UK Pounds), and the short tube f4.5 for around £220.
Admittedly at this price point over here in "Rip-off Britain", the choices are somewhat limited, however, you can get a 130M 5 inch f7 motorised Newtonian on an EQ2 for around £160 from an astronomy dealership. I know which one I would prefer as a starter scope!
Another thing, newcomers don't appreciate the sheer size (or weight) of a 'proper' astronomical telescope, even a 'small' one. At least they get some idea of the scale, and how much room such an instrument takes up.
I would also encourage people to bring any small scope they may have, even if it is a 60mm refractor. Most of us of a certain age probably started out with one. All the better if their store scope has a 1.25 focusser. Slip in one of your budget Plossls, and let them see the improvement over the ones that came with the scope. They shouldn't feel they can't participate just because they don't have anything else, and more experienced observers can give them tips on how to get the most use out of them. It's about inclusion and encouragement.
I recently organised my first ever star party for my student association. I knew another member who had a larger scope, and I had my little Tal 1M (4.5 inch reflector). I purchased a second-hand 102mm f10 refractor as a second scope for the event (£99 off e-bay), so there would be more to go round, and we didn't have a refractor between us. Besides, I always fancied owning a refractor. I estimated a maximum of around 25 people judging by the correspondance I received showing an interest and allowing for last minute drop-outs. In the event, around 20 attended, plus a few passers by who were interested in what was going on.
OK, it was a small start, but a start nevertheless, and it gave the chance for adults and children alike to get their first views.
It's always nice to have large scopes present, and we are grateful for those who bring them along, but it is also good to have examples of scopes available to those considering their first purchase who may also be on a budget.
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Tal-1M 110mm f/7.3 Newtonian
Helios 102mm f/9.8 refractor
Bresser 10x50 binoculars
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mtnmedic
Late for dinner
Reged: 11/09/04
Posts: 1521
Loc: Antelope, Oregon
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I'd have to say that for the "wow" factor, one wouldn't go wrong with a big scope. But I kind of have to agree with Edz on some of his points. If you really want to get people interested in the hobby, you should expose them to equipment that should meet common realistic expectations for size, price, portability and purpose. Dobs are always great because they're so easy and inexpensive to come by. CATs are great but the caveat rests with their expensive price tags. Most of the crowd pleasers I've seen have been the big Dobs.
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MICHAEL
Meade 10" LX200 Classic
Celestron NexStar 5
Edmund Scientific Astroscan 4" RFT (1978!)
Canon EOS 450D Rebel XSI
Burgess binoviewer, 1rpd 30mm 80DFOV, etc
Apple iPad 64GB 3G + SkySafari Pro + SkyFi
and
Eight CATS (that is, the FURRY kind....)
"The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us are going to the stars!"
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Dave Mitsky
Postmaster
Reged: 04/08/02
Posts: 24600
Loc: PA, USA, Planet Earth
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Over the many years that I've participated in public observing sessions at the ASH Naylor Observatory, I've noticed that most visitors line up to have a look through the 17" classical Cassegrain before doing so for any of the smaller telescopes on the grounds.
Dave Mitsky
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Chance favors the prepared mind.
A man is a small thing, and the night is very large and full of wonders.
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gparkerson
Vendor (Astronomy Technology Today)
Reged: 01/21/05
Posts: 999
Loc: Louisiana
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Our local club uses a 14" Orange Tube Celestron as its principal star party scope, augmented by whatever personal scopes members choose to bring. It also employs a 16" classical cassegrain and 6"f15 Achro. The 14" SCT appears to be the best tool for ease of use by guests of varying height and agility. The eyepiece height and orientation accommodates most folks although a short step is available for young visitors. The big Dobs that show up provide better views I've no doubt our insurer would prefer the SCT.
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Gary
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mtnmedic
Late for dinner
Reged: 11/09/04
Posts: 1521
Loc: Antelope, Oregon
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I'll tell ya one thing that drew some folks...I was at a star party in eastern Oregon many years ago and the big draw was my old Criterion Dynamax 8" SCT. Not that it was such a popular scope or great performer...just that it was quite a conversation piece. Felt like a proud museum curator! 
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MICHAEL
Meade 10" LX200 Classic
Celestron NexStar 5
Edmund Scientific Astroscan 4" RFT (1978!)
Canon EOS 450D Rebel XSI
Burgess binoviewer, 1rpd 30mm 80DFOV, etc
Apple iPad 64GB 3G + SkySafari Pro + SkyFi
and
Eight CATS (that is, the FURRY kind....)
"The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us are going to the stars!"
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Chris Curran
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/14/05
Posts: 827
Loc: Brandon, FL
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Top "3"? Well, there's only one answer to that: #3  . The motif has been a real "winner"  . It seems to help "break the ice" with the average guy on the sidewalk...
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cheers & beers,
Chris
Homepage | Over 40?
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Richard B. Drumm
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/14/05
Posts: 1486
Loc: Albemarle Co. Virginia
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'Lo all:
This is a popular thread, judging by all the posts. So I've gotta weigh in on the topic since it's close to my heart. I'm a big fan of public outreach and think it's absolutely necessary for us all to participate. Here are some ideas:
- Ladders at dobs/Newts on EQ mounts need glow-in-the-dark tape to help the public see the steps of the ladder. Here's where you get some:
http://www.scopestuff.com/ss_glot.htm
Put strips of it on the front of the ladder's steps (not on the actual tread of the step as it'll get beaten up badly) and periodically shine a white-light LED flashlight at it (while shielding it from nearby dark-adapted eyes) and it'll shine brightly for a half hour, and dimly for another half hour. Nobody will stumble on your steps and all will feel secure.
- I love my Orion Atlas 10 and think that the fact that it tracks and is locked down is key to it's appeal. A kid can steady him/herself by grabbing the tube and the scope will stay put. It'll wiggle a bit, but it'll settle back down quickly enough. For those of you who want to expose folks to affordable medium-bore scopes, the Orion 8" Newt on the SkyView EQ mount is pretty good, cheap, not too bulky or heavy.
- I like the suggestion of bringing along Orion catalogs to the event! I'm going to do that very thing at our Mars events in October.
- Eyepieces! Always a favorite discussion topic. At public outreach events something that often happens is someone will stick a finger onto the EP's glass and say "Look in here?" and smudge the view for all who follow. My favorite EPs to use with the public are my Pentax XL14 and Nagler 22. Each of these has collars which can isolate the glass from fingers and are just plain wonderful EPs in their own right. That Nagler lives on a Parracor and blows people away when trained on larger targets, the Perseus Double Cluster, M42, that sort of thing. The Pentax is preferred with things like M13 where the extra magnification resolves individual stars. It's good with the Moon as well. I'm thinking about getting one of the shorter 5-7mm Pentaxes for the planets and M57 instead of the old Nagler 7mm "type 1" which I bought last year.
Thanks for "listening" to the rant,
Richard B. Drumm
Charlottesville, Va.
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AKA Richard Drumm The Astronomy Bum
Orion Atlas 10 (10" Newt on an equatorial mount)
Celestron 15x70 SkyMaster Binocs
Coronado Ha PST
President, Charlottesville Astronomical Society
IOTA member
38° 10' 57"N, 78° 23' 09"W
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tishovlin
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/11/03
Posts: 1882
Loc: Springfield, Pa
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Some real good points Richard, and welcome to Cloudy Nights!
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Tim S
C6-RGT
13.1" Truss Dob
Osypowski dual-axis Eq. Platform
15x70 Obies
NP-101
Gibraltar tripod/mount
Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini
I'm headin for Galt's Gulch
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David Pavlich
Transmographied
Reged: 05/18/05
Posts: 21117
Loc: Mandeville, LA USA
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What a terrific thread! I hadn't explored it until today.
I would have to agree with those that like the 10-12" SCT. Because it has apperture and most now have great tracking ability and good ep location, it gives you a large amount of targets and a fairly easy time of viewing.
I remember being about 8 years old (that's 46 years ago  ) I had my first views through three scopes. One was of the Moon, one of Saturn and the third I don't remember. My desire to continually return to the Saturn-viewing scope was overwhelming. To this day, it amazes me. I think that whatever is being viewed, if Saturn is one of the targets, it will be quite popular.
Night Sky had a little story about setting up on Halloween night. After reading this thread, I think it would be fun. I'll have to put the 6" out and hope that I can find something that will show up well enough with the street lights.
David
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Money can't buy happiness, but it sure makes misery easier to live with.
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Silicon Owl
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 11/25/05
Posts: 1136
Loc: Waimea, Hawaii 20N
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I have to agree with the use of 10-12" SCT's as the perfect public scopes. I have used my 18" dob for a number of events, and while definitely a crowd draw it does have its disadvantages.
For most public work I use a Nexstar 11", for all of the reasons discussed here it works great. This scope has been setup in a couple dozen schoolyards here in Tucson this year alone, I have no idea how many hundreds of viewers it has shown the sky to!
What I haven't seen discussed much is the use of GOTO. This is what makes the scope perfect for public use. A little slower to set up, but once it is the scope takes care of itself! I don't have to check the scope all the time to insure that the object is still there, it locks down well enough that little hands don't move the scope and bump it off target. You can ignore the 'scope and spend your time answering questions.
Ever try finding stuff under badly light polluted skies in a central city schoolyard? You can do it, but it takes time when you have a line at the 'scope! Even worse when clouds are drifting through and forcing you to hop from object to object. GOTO is your best possible friend under these conditions, just hit the buttons and let the kids be amazed at the smoothly slewing 'scope.
I find that the 11" has the needed light gathering power to display the usual showpiece objects well and the focal length to display planets well, fast setup, a case with wheels to haul it from the car, two loads to carry if I take only what I really need.
Andrew
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Andrew Cooper
Personal Website and CN Gallery
Handmade 18" Dob / NS11GPS / 6" RFT /AT6RC/ 90mm APO / TV-76 ...and a twin 10m
"I have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful of the night." --Sarah Williams
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Rusty
Postmaster
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 19246
Loc: Brooker, FL
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I agree - the most popular scopes at our public viewing sessions (our club has 1 to 3 per month) are the 10" and 11" SCTs with GOTO.
For our club's paid sessions, depending on where they are, the 150mm MAK is very popular, especially if the showpiece planets (Jupiter or Saturn) or the Moon is up.
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N11GPS Fastar//TOA-130S//MK66 Std//AT6RC//Vintage C5//Megrez II 80mm APO//SolarMax 40
NJP Temma II//Sirius EQ-G
Too Many Astro-Cameras//Mallincam Color Hyper Plus
Two not-spoiled Golden Retrievers - Casey and Nelson
Lot 19 Deerlick Astronomy Village (Canis Major)
Sometimes I think we're alone in the universe, and sometimes I think we're not. In either case the idea is quite staggering. - Arthur C. Clarke
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Victor Kennedy
Pooh-Bear
Reged: 05/22/03
Posts: 12190
Loc: Slovenia
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Well, the PST has been a hit lately.
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No matter how hard you push the envelope, it's still stationary.
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BooBoo
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/21/06
Posts: 2306
Loc: California City, California, U...
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Last night I went to my first ever public star party. When I got there and saw the other telescopes I hesitated to set up my XT8 Dob. But I did so anyway - and let me tell you how glad I am that I did! There was only one other telescope present that didn't require a stepladder or stepstool for the younger folks, and that was another Dob set up near me. Yes, the 20" Obsession had a line, but several of the folks who looked through it and then through mine thought my views were better! (I can only attribute that to the owner of the 20" showing up just at dusk and his scope not having cooled down properly)
From what I saw having a "smaller" Dob set up gives kids in particular a scope they can look through without problems. Only once did I have to grab a stool for someone, when a dad brought his 4-year old over for a look at the Moon. I did get a lot of repeat visitors who wanted to look through my telescope, and I had no hesitation in moving it to whatever they wanted to view and telling them how to focus it and adjust it to track what they were looking at.
Admittedly my experience is very limited, last night being my first time out. But even with that limited experience I can see how valuable a simple Dob can be to a public outing. You can rest assured that my XT8 and I will be making more appearances at such events in the future.
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BooBoo
aka Barry, aka Tarasdad
“Astronomy isn't a hobby, it's an obsession"
Orion SkyQuest XT8 Classic Dobsonian
Celestron C8-SGT
California City, California
My astronomy blog
My RC blog
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Tom L
Reged: 01/07/04
Posts: 31037
Loc: Sunny Oregon
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I think Dobs are great public demo scopes also. I love the ooohs! and aaaaahhhs! and I don't mind jumping in every second or third person to realign on a target.
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Tom 
Tele Vue 102mm f/8.6 on an EzTouch
Vixen 80mm f/5 A80SSWT on a grab-n-go mount
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b1gred
Enginerd
Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 16902
Loc: Castle Rock, CO 6677' MSL
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My 9.25 with Binoviewers on it really grabs the "oohs and aaahs" and with the JMI focuser it's easy for people to do their own fine focus. It gives a great show and is pretty easy to keep setup properly, it's also substantial enough that I'm not worried about people messing it up. I'm much more nerveous when I use my Tak for open house nights.
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"Dark Skies & Great Viewing"
RandyR / W0RDR
GPS 9.25 XLT/Sky Align /FeatherTouch
TV85 w/FeatherTouch
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snorkler
Aperture Aficionado
Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 10041
Loc: Bay Area, California
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This is a good message thread, as I'm taking a scope with me for a month while serving as an astronomy volunteer at Bryce Canyon National. I plan to take my SN-10 on the Losmandy G-11 mount for one reason: the G-11's slip clutches. I figure if someone pushes on it too hard, they can't damage the scope. My other EQ mounts, and my ServoCat-equipped Dob would be damaged by that accidental shove.
My other choices would be my XT10i Dob, or my 18" with the Servocat clutches disabled. But neither of the Dobs will track, so the SN-10 combo seems like the best solution for me. Comments?
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I'm not the lowest of the low, but I am the slowest of the slow. '06 Scion xB. 49.6 mpg avg over 38,000 miles. 177% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
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RRaubach
AstroCowboy
Reged: 01/26/05
Posts: 2173
Loc: Douglas (Converse County),WY
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My last experience with setting up at a public session was using my Takahashi TOA 130 on Omega Cntauri down a Chaco Canyon this past May.
Refractors always seem to have a great deal of *draw* to them, since lots of folks regard them a *real telescopes*!
I had as many people lined up as the 20" Obsesssion.
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Rodger
Meade SN-10 (UHTC) on Tak EM-200 mount/Antares rotating rings. Moonlite focuser.
Parallax 14.5" Newtonian on HD 200 mount (arriving soon!) w/ conical Royce mirror.
TMB 203 f/7 APO refractor on Tak NJP-160 mount.
Discovery 12.5" PDHQ
Schneider 18x80 "Flakfernrohr" binoculars/tripod mounted. Canon 15x50 IS binoculars
Unihedron Sky Quality Meter
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Ziggy943
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/11/06
Posts: 3060
Loc: Utah
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I am going to disagree with the smaller is better opinions.
I think large attention getting scopes are best for the public. They show objects the way they should be seen and in a way no smaller telescope can.
For over 20 years a hauled the 9" refractor to hundreds of star parties. A 9" refractor on a GEM has a presence, it is a draw. Many of our star parties were cunducted on grocery store parking lots. Passerbys notice a big telescope, that looks like a telescope, when it stick 14 feet into the air. It gets their attention, and then delivers.
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May your skies always be clear,
Ziggy
War doesn't determine who is right, only who is left..
www.slas.us
4" Mak
#1, 160mm F8 TEC (born 1-18-2007, 27 lbs, 45.5" long), on AP900
6" F17.5 (D&G lens) (first light 6-7-2008)
9" F/14.9 Alvan Clark (1915), on Byers 812
14.25 F/5.5 Newt in a roll off observatory
Others, that have come and gone
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