GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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hi to all.
Some days ago i've received an exemplar of General hi-t 20x110.
Unfortunately the weather has been often cloudy, therefore I can only send my first impressions.
Well... this binoculars is very heavy: 6.5kg, i'am using this binoculars with a Chinese clone of bogen 501 and a fork mount sold by generalhit ...but i'am studing to improve my parallelogram mount because, with the first setup, i've many vibration during the zenith observation, also if the tripod is in the lower position.
Coatings are very good, better than the first 7x50) that i posses. Exit pupils is perfectly round, in the next few days I will use a green laser in order to verify the brightness of the exit pupil...edz docet :-)
Using in daytime i've not verify particular false color, the chromatic correction is better regarding the economic models 25x100 that I possess.
In the astronomy use, (only for an hour because of the meterological conditions) I have measured the following field: 75% 10% 15%. Observing stars of lower-middle luminosity its are pinpoints on approximately the 70-75% of the visual field,(like to good achromatic refractor) but with the stars of I and II Magn. are pinpoints on approximately 55% of the field. In synthesis the vision is better regarding mine 25x100FB.
For "my usual sub-urban sky, under which I observe, the exit pupil is too big ,5,5mm, (i use with profit 4mm of E.P) however the good contrast can "cut "the galaxies from the sky very very well. I would want to try also the version with 28 enlargementes.
I hope to send you a complete report between a pair of weeks.
Best Regards from Italy
Piergiovanni
www.binomania.it
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[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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another image
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[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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Clear Skies!
Pier
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[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 2447
Loc: Connecticut
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Pier,
Thanks for your first impressions. Those pictures comparing the 50's to the 110's are great! Looking forward to your more complete reviews.
Peter
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 12 - 100 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 4066
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Pier,
Thank you so much for the photos and first impression. That 110 looks MASSIVE!
Both of you look good in BLACK!
I also prefer ~4mm exit pupil in 80mm or larger binos from my suburban backyard. I am interested in up- sizing to the 28X110. Would be very interested in hearing more about CA control in day time viewing. I spend a lot time using my 20X80 bino for long range terrestrial observation.
Erik D
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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Hi.
Don't worry, i also use my binoculars in day time viewing, so i'll send you my impression also in this field,unfortunately in the limits of my "english".
Best!
pier
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[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Well , Hello Pier my friend !
Thank you for posting those great photos , and for sharing your first impressions with us here .
I find it almost incredible that from the FRONT elevation , it would be impossible to tell which was which if it wasn't for the data on the identical prism housings !
By the way , I like your new avator , and simply MUST ask the question :
" Is that YOUR wedding photo ? "
Regards and clear skies ,
Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
By the way , I like your new avator , and simply MUST ask the question :
" Is that YOUR wedding photo ? "
And also, inquiring minds want to know, is it recent?
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 6459
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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after 4 days of owning the TS version of that 7x50, I already find it very typical that on the first picture one of the objective covers is not in place.
I very much enjoyed the initial impressions on the 20x110, and look forward to reading much more!
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet
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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1715
Loc: Canton, OH
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Pier,
WOW. That side-by-comparison really hits home. Those 20x110s are MONSTERS. With the 5.5-mm exit pupil, I think you now have the ULTIMATE instrument for IC 1396, NGC 7000, and NGC 1499 from dark skies.
Clear Skies,
Phil
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"The hopeful depend on a world without end, whatever the hopeless may say"--Rush, "Manhattan Project"
Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
12" f/4.9 Skywatcher Collapsible Dobsonian
8" f/4.9 Orion Newtonian on alt-az mount
Oberwerk 15x70 Binoculars
Minimalist Eyepiece Collection: 30mm ES-82, 22mm Vixen LVW, 14mm Delos, 10mm Delos, 2X GSO ED Barlow, 4X Powermate
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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Quote:
Quote:
By the way , I like your new avator , and simply MUST ask the question :
" Is that YOUR wedding photo ? "
Edz, Kenny...Yes it is! i am wedding the last 5 August with Jenny.
Best
Pier
And also, inquiring minds want to know, is it recent?
edz
--------------------
[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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WOW. That side-by-comparison really hits home. Those 20x110s are MONSTERS. With the 5.5-mm exit pupil, I think you now have the ULTIMATE instrument for IC 1396, NGC 7000, and NGC 1499 from dark skies.
Hi Phil, Unfortunately i've this binoculars at home only for a test. I think that i'll buy the 28x110, that it could be better from my sub-urban skies.
Have a nice week
Pier
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[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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camvan
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 2142
Loc: British Columbia
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I know that ever since I heard about 20/28x110's, I've wanted them. in effect, how much light is that letting thru compared to a single refractor? I've got a bad case of aperature(sp?) fever ever since looking thru an Obsession 18". that's well out of my range and finding I love bino's lots, I think these are probably closeer to 'perfection' (at least, in theory, application waits...we want review!) that I'd actually be able to afford some day! 
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Cameron
"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis
Intes MN66
Meade SN8
handfull of cheap ep's
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 6459
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Phil, wouldn't you think seeing those large objects requires a FOV even slightly larger?
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 6459
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Cameron,
I've started thinking along similar lines. Since the 22x85 are so big and heavy, if I need a large P-mount for it and can forget about grab-and-go, I might as well put even larger binoculars on it.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Congratulations Pier!
Cam,
a 110mm binocular is equivalent to a 130mm telescope for light.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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Phillip Creed
Idiot Seeking Village
Reged: 07/25/06
Posts: 1715
Loc: Canton, OH
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Ed,
What would the equivalent telescope be if the scope in question was a reflector rather than a refractor?
Phil
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"The hopeful depend on a world without end, whatever the hopeless may say"--Rush, "Manhattan Project"
Wilderness Center Astronomy Club member since 1995
ICQ Comet Observer Code: CRE01
*****
12" f/4.9 Skywatcher Collapsible Dobsonian
8" f/4.9 Orion Newtonian on alt-az mount
Oberwerk 15x70 Binoculars
Minimalist Eyepiece Collection: 30mm ES-82, 22mm Vixen LVW, 14mm Delos, 10mm Delos, 2X GSO ED Barlow, 4X Powermate
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 4066
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
Cameron,
I've started thinking along similar lines. Since the 22x85 are so big and heavy, if I need a large P-mount for it and can forget about grab-and-go, I might as well put even larger binoculars on it.
Mark,
I don't use a P-mount for my binos but,
I beleive the 22X85 Siginture is about 10 lbs. You can mount a 10 lb bino on a $150 Bogen 501 head and it will be a grab-&-go set up:
http://www.adorama.com/BG3433.html?searchinfo=Bogen%20501%20head&item_no=1
You'll need a Bogen 516 head to mount a 16 lb 28X110. It can still be a grab & go with the use of the Quick Releas Plate. But the cost is more than 3X the price of a 501 head:
http://www.adorama.com/BG516.html?searchinfo=Bogen%20516%20head&item_no=2
Another consideration besides the cost is the Bogen 516 head has a fixed 16.5 lb counter balance spring. It's designed to return a heavy video camera to Horizontal. Works best with OTA wt of 13 lb or heavier. Doesn't work very well if you mount a light weight bino(10 lb or less) and try to observe near zenith. You'll be fighting the sping tension to keep the bino pointing at +90 deg. It's a lot of $$$ to spend for mounting one ultra bino. I can use the 501 head for binos from a 2 to 12 lbs.
You can also consdier a Helix Fork mount for the 110mm. It will hold binos up to the 26 lb BT100 and cost less than a Bogen 516 head. I don't know how well it will work with a 21 in long, straight thru bino. I don't have first hand experience.
Using a P mount with a 16 lb vs 10 lb bino will add at least 12 lbs to your set up....6 more for the bino and 6 for the counter wt. It'll likly be more because you'll need longer and heavier stock for your P mount arm to support the heavier 21 in long OTA. A 16 lb bino+ 16 lb counter weight + heavy duty P mount means you'll need a heavy duty tripod too. a typical Manfotto tripod with geared center column is rated for 26 lbs.
A 28X110 bino is specialized equipment. It's a pair of 110mm ~F6 telescopes with narrow 2.3 deg FOV joined. Consider getting one if you alreadly have a 20X80 or 25X100 and really want the extra light grasp. You can easily spend more for the mount and tripod than the $650 price of the bino. I would not recommend it for someone whose previous experience with big binoculars is a 10X50 or 12X60.
Erik D
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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Hi Phil,
Some years ago, Dr.Albino Carbognani has published in Italy a great review of Astromeccanica Binoscopes,
this is the box published at the end of the article
BOX
Model
Astromeccanica Dual achro 80 - Astromeccanica Dual apo 102
Magnification 29X- 37X
magn. limit. (1 eye) +11.2 -+11.4
magn theor.(1 eye) +11.3- +11.8
magn.limit. (2 eyes) +12.2- +12.7
Diameter equivalent (mm) 123mm- 151 mm
gain magnitudine +1- +1.3
Obviously there are other many factors to considering: quality of the lens, prisms, eyepieces, coating,etc etc, and "above all" the fact that binoscopes are not binoculars) but i'like this example.
Best
Pier
--------------------
[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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Quote:
Congratulations Pier!
Thanks Edz!
Pier
--------------------
[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 6459
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Quote:
I beleive the 22X85 Siginture is about 10 lbs. You can mount a 10 lb bino on a $150 Bogen 501 head and it will be a grab-&-go set up:
You'll need a Bogen 516 head to mount a 16 lb 28X110. It can still be a grab & go with the use of the Quick Releas Plate. But the cost is more than 3X the price of a 501 head:
Another consideration is the Bogen 516 head has a fixed 16.5 lb counter balance spring. It's designed to return a heavy video camera to Horizontal. Works best with OTA wt of 13 lb or heavier. Doesn't work very well if you mount a light weight bino(10 lb or less) and try to observe near zenith. You'll be fighting the sping tension to keep the bino elevated. It's a lot of $$$ for limited application.
You can also consdier a Helix Fork mount for the 110mm. It will hold a 26 lb BT100 and cost less than a Bogen 516 head. I don't know how well it will work with a 21 in long, straight thru bino. I don't have first hand experience using one.
Using a P mount with a 16 lb vs 10 lb bino will add at least 12 lbs to your set up....6 more for the bino and 6 for the counter wt. It'll likly be more because you'll need longer and heavier stock for your P mount arm to hold up the heavier 21 in long OTA....
Thanks Erik for that detailed info. Something I'll have to look into more deeply. My first reaction is that of course you are right from the mechanical point of view, but unfortunately not from the ergonomic one.
When using a 'normal' head for mounting the bino's, I like to observe seated and slightly leaning back, with the tripod pulled towards me in 'bipod' mode. This would be impossible with anything heavier than my current 20x80 on a Slik tripod and head - in fact, it's already borderline. That's why I concluded that for anything bigger I'd need a P-mount. I will not consider anything that will have me crouch forward and put my head in between my shoulder blades when viewing anything above 30 degrees altitude.
Quote:
A 28X110 bino is specialized equipment. It's a pair of 110mm ~F6 telescopes with narrow 2.3 deg FOV joined. Consider getting one if you alreadly have a 20X80 or 25X100 and really want the extra light grasp.
Indeed, but I do already have 20x80s.
--------------------
Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
a 110mm binocular is equivalent to a 130mm telescope for light.
Quote:
Ed,
What would the equivalent telescope be if the scope in question was a reflector rather than a refractor?
Phil
If it were an SCT with a 40% obstruction, you would need about a about 142mm to get the equivalent light gathering of a 130mm refractor. If it were a Newtonian with a 25% obstruction, about 135mm.
edz
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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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dgs©
Postmaster
Reged: 03/29/04
Posts: 15091
Loc: West Monroe, Louisiana
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Pier, congratulations on the recent wedding, and good fortune in finding such an excellent example of a bride. Meanwhile, condolences to Jenny... such a beautiful girl should have been able to find a groom with more hair. 
You'd appreciate that one even more if you could see the top of my own head.
Nearly three months... I remember those days, long, long ago for myself. 
Boy, those 7x50s practically disappear next to that big set. 
Are these General Hi-T's similar to the latest generation of heavy duty binoculars with better than usual optics? Meaning the Oberwerk Ultras/ Garrett Optical Grizzlys, etc. I'b guessing they are of similar lineage. 
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- david
8"Ø Newtonian on SVP, Moonlite CR2, Telrad
PST Oberwerk Ultra 15x70 Orion Ultraview 10×50
Hand-me-down Sears Refractor (Discoverer) 60mm×900mm
"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world, remains and is immortal." --Albert Pike
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EdZ
Professor EdZ
Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
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Quote:
Are these General Hi-T's similar to the latest generation of heavy duty binoculars with better than usual optics? Meaning the Oberwerk Ultras/ Garrett Optical Grizzlys, etc. I'b guessing they are of similar lineage.
See this tread on Kunming China for a discussion that may answer your question?
edz
--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21
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GLR GROUP
super member
Reged: 03/22/04
Posts: 198
Loc: Cugliate Fabiasco,(VA) (ITALY)
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Quote:
Pier, congratulations on the recent wedding, and good fortune in finding such an excellent example of a bride. Meanwhile, condolences to Jenny... such a beautiful girl should have been able to find a groom with more hair.
you're right! 
but Jenny loves the man with less hair..like Bruce Willis :-)))
Are these General Hi-T's similar to the latest generation of heavy duty binoculars with better than usual optics? Meaning the Oberwerk Ultras/ Garrett Optical Grizzlys, etc. I'b guessing they are of similar lineage.
yes they are.
--------------------
[url] www.binomania.it [/url] you can find many binoculars reviews!
[url] www.landscapephotography.it [/url] a tribute to italian and switzerland landscapes
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Pier ,
Hearty congratulations on your marriage to a beautiful looking bride !
I think Jenny is VERY wise to love men with less hair ! :-)
I look forward to reading further reports about this truly GIANT binocular , but it is very understandable if it takes a little while for you to find the time to review them ! :-)
Regards , Kenny
--------------------
Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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