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Mr Onions
Two Time International Photographical Competition Winner
Reged: 04/14/07
Posts: 6432
Loc: Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Good Morning.
I ask this because I wonder how many people in the past have had their first look of the heavens with a department store type telescope and been completely underwhelmed by the poor view.
I know Kenny has a Diascope, so this very definately doesn"t fall into the category of cheap department store instrument.
Has Kenny been turned by the TV76? And has it altered {if only slightly} his usual observational targets of,old factory gutters and fire hydrant signs, up to a more heavenly plane?
Mr Onions.
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www.igorspectre.com
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edwincjones
Close Enough
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 7980
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Fine optics always help.
edj
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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The quality of views through the TeleVue has certainly prompted me to get out more under the stars , but two things which I'm still struggling with are the reversed orientation and lack of a finder of some sort when using higher magnifications .
I can hardly wait for the Zeiss astro adapter to arrive so that I can use the Zeiss zoom lens in the TeleVue .
I hadn't realised just how much I'd depended on the ease and simplicity of finding a target at 20x then zooming in on it .
If such things could be made as an erecting prism which did not deteriorate image quality , and a zoom lens providing magnifications ranging from 10x to 100x , with TFOVS ranging from 5 degrees to 0.5 degrees , providing images as sharp as the TeleVue radian produces , I would be prepared to sell my Guild guitar , Zeiss Diascope , 20 x 90 , 15 x 70 and 10 x 50 binoculars just to buy them !
Regards , Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Rich V.
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 3143
Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
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Kenny, some kind of red dot finder would go a long way with the TV76; my SV80S came with a pretty decent multi-reticle RDF. It's small and much better quality than most; no plastic:
http://www.bazaarbuilder.com/cgi-bin/nickaltair/myshop.php?merchant=nickaltair&prodid=565&sinprod=1 (UK site)
I'v found that since getting the 80/480 that the Moon is not just something to be avoided anymore. The ease of setup a small scope provides makes dedicated Lunar observing a practical matter! On a good night (with a good atlas) a lot of time can be spent on the wealth of features. The lack of color and high contrast of these little scopes is surprising.
I always knew I bordered on being a Lunatic!
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/71/150x100 Saturn III, 22x70ED, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 EII, 7x35 E, 8x30 EII,
7x26 Custom, 8x23CF AS Diplomat, 6.5x21 Papilio
Scopes:
C9.25, TMB130SS, SV80S-LOMO 80/480
IDA member
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 6459
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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I second the recommendation for a red dot finder. I got one a couple of weeks ago and it surely has increased my use comfort, even with a zoom eyepiece.
Kenny, I'm working on a system that goes some way in meeting your requirements:
- Baader 90° amici prism (on back-order  )
- Baader Hyperion 8-24 mm zoom, giving me 23x to 69x
- Siebert power mag wheel for flip-in reduction or multiplication of the magnifications given by the zoom
- something like an UA microstar mount on a Bogen tripod with extendable center column
- a custom made case so I can leave everything assembled for storage.
Well, I've got some way to go; so far I only got the RDF and the zoom eyepiece.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Thanks for the tip , Rich .
Mark , I'm intrigued by your " viewing improvement plan " and particularly with the Harry Siebert gadget , which I presume works in a similar way to the Questar contraption , or , I believe , the original Bushnell Spacemaster ?
I keep forgetting to report also that the O55B tripod / 501 head combo is perhaps NOT exactly ideal for the TeleVue set - up , and especially when BACK - HEAVY with diagonals , barlows and large eyepieces .
It seems to suffer from a certain amount of " sticksion " and jerkiness when the scope is angled toward zenith , at which angle even the TeleVue focuser struggles to maintain it's smoothness -- these problems persisting regardless of to what extent I adjust the tensioners or restrainers .
Neither have I ever been totally satisfied with the central column extended on the Manfrotto 055B , as it seems to introduce a touch of wobble even in light winds , not to mention to be a royal pain to adjust without a cranking mechanism when it is laden with weight approaching it's comfort zone limit .
In fact , when mounted on the TeleVue balancing plate , which in turn is attached to the 501 quick - release plate , one of the " car wheel " TeleVue focusers only JUST misses the plate when being turned .
Maybe I should just sell all this gear , stop fooling myself that I'm interested in astronomy and just buy myself another guitar instead ! :-)
Regards , Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 6459
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Kenny, I'm not quite sure how the Questar does what it does or the Bushnell Spacemaster did what it did.
The Siebert device is essentially a filter wheel but with lenses mounted instead of filters. I'm having trouble making certain links to Siebert's website work, but here's one that should work; just scroll down a bit:
http://www.siebertoptics.com/SiebertOptics-barlows.html#Power%20Mag%20Wheel%20Barlow.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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I see , Mark -- that is more or less exactly what and how I expected the " Siebert Wheel " to look and operate like .
To achieve what I was dreaming about , such a device would still mean having to start with a very low power eyepiece , and " work up or down " the magnification range from there .
One problem remaining , even with that , is the fact that TOP QUALITY eyepieces with such long focal length as to provide magnifications in single figures or thereabouts , tend to be huge , heavy , expensive , field - limited by FIELD STOP , and generally NOT lending themselves very well to bouts of belligerent barlowing !
Regards , Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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edwincjones
Close Enough
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 7980
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Quote:
I hadn't realised just how much I'd depended on the ease and simplicity of finding a target at 20x then zooming in on it .
If such things could be made as an erecting prism which did not deteriorate image quality , and a zoom lens providing magnifications ranging from 10x to 100x , with TFOVS ranging from 5 degrees to 0.5 degrees , providing images as sharp as the TeleVue radian produces , I would be prepared to sell my Guild guitar , Zeiss Diascope , 20 x 90 , 15 x 70 and 10 x 50 binoculars just to buy them !
Regards , Kenny
I have the Tak Sky90 with Baader erecting prism with Leica 20-60 zoom and TV 3-6 zooms. I cannot tell very much, if any, distortion going up to 166X. I agree with your statement of ease of finding objects at lower power and zooming up, not to mention the fun of playing with the zoom.
edj
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5618
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Hi Kenny,
I've been using my TV-76 with the WO 2" erecting, 45 deg angled, prism. Even at a relatively low power (18mm Radian) Jupiter is bright enough to make a bright line show in the field across several Jupiter diameters. I wouldn't recommend that prism.
A red dot or Telrad type finder is very helpful.
After a short time you will get used to the correct up and down, reversed left right image in the main scope. I find it helps to think of where the object is in relation to the end of the OTA and move the OTA to bring it to the object.
If you really get into astronomy I suggest a good GE mount. You don't need to use it powered. Sometimes I just push the OTA in RA and let the object drift. It is still easier than using a manual alt/az mount.
Vixen has a neat little driven alt/az mount.
All the best,
Rich
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 6459
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Quote:
One problem remaining , even with that , is the fact that TOP QUALITY eyepieces with such long focal length as to provide magnifications in single figures or thereabouts , tend to be huge , heavy , expensive , field - limited by FIELD STOP , and generally NOT lending themselves very well to bouts of belligerent barlowing !
Agreed, Kenny. But what is very achievable with the Siebert device and a 8-24 mm zoom lens - or at least that's what I expect - is having an effective zoom range starting at 15x to 20x and going all the way up to perhaps 150x or even higher. And that for sure is a tempting prospect.
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet
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Rich V.
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 3143
Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
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Quote:
I keep forgetting to report also that the O55B tripod / 501 head combo is perhaps NOT exactly ideal for the TeleVue set - up , and especially when BACK - HEAVY with diagonals , barlows and large eyepieces .
It seems to suffer from a certain amount of " sticksion " and jerkiness when the scope is angled toward zenith , at which angle even the TeleVue focuser struggles to maintain it's smoothness -- these problems persisting regardless of to what extent I adjust the tensioners or restrainers .
Kenny, I suspected this might be the case.
What I did to improve the situation with my 3063 head (predecessor to the 501) was to have a friend with a machine shop make me an aluminum plate adapter so that the scope can sit "side saddle" on the head. One side is tapped with a 3/8" insert and index holes for my Bogen QR plate; the other side has a slot that aligns with the 1/4"-20 holes in the foot on the clamshell. The scope hangs under the plate and the center of gravity of the scope is lined up with the alt axis of the head.
Now the clutches can be loosened all the way and the scope just stays where it's aimed, anywhere from horizontal to vertical. I can move the scope with my little finger! No "sticksion" at all, just the buttery smooth feel of the viscous clutch with minimal tension. One piece of 3/8" alum. plate and I have the action of an expensive alt/az mount!
Here's a picture; I haven't sent the plate to the powdercoater yet but a blasting and a durable coating would be nice.
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/71/150x100 Saturn III, 22x70ED, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 EII, 7x35 E, 8x30 EII,
7x26 Custom, 8x23CF AS Diplomat, 6.5x21 Papilio
Scopes:
C9.25, TMB130SS, SV80S-LOMO 80/480
IDA member
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Rich V.
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 3143
Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
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One more:
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Binoculars:
33/50/71/150x100 Saturn III, 22x70ED, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 EII, 7x35 E, 8x30 EII,
7x26 Custom, 8x23CF AS Diplomat, 6.5x21 Papilio
Scopes:
C9.25, TMB130SS, SV80S-LOMO 80/480
IDA member
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 6459
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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That's a superb set-up, Rich! First time I'm really considering the 501 head. How does it perform at high power?
I'm a bit surprised you didn't put the RDF on top of the aluminium plate (yet).
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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All good points and very well appreciated !
I've probably been looking at the night skies through binoculars and scopes , on and off , for about 30 years longer than most people here realise , but apart from a two year stint with my 102f5 on GEQ mount ( which I almost HATED ) I've always been a CORRECT orientation guy .
I've also been driving cars or vans every day for about 35 years .
For ME , suddenly changing to reversed image is like being suddenly asked to drive a car with a steering wheel which has to be turned CLOCKWISE to turn LEFT and ANTI - CLOCKWISE to turn RIGHT !
The brain CAN be trained to do it -- but instinct , deep - rooted habit and a kind of " muscle memory " , not to mention natural PREFERENCE , is a very powerful combination working against me .
It would appear the Baader 90 degree Amici is my only hope for salvation ! :-)
Regards , Kenny
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Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Mark9473
Postmaster
Reged: 07/21/05
Posts: 6459
Loc: 51°N 4°E
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Quote:
One piece of 3/8" alum. plate and I have the action of an expensive alt/az mount!
BTW, Rich, the 501 head is an expensive alt/az mount. 
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Mark
Leica 8x20; Nikon 7x35; Vixen 8x42; Orion 15x63; Docter 15x60
WO Megrez II 80 FD / APM 107mm f/6.5 / Mewlon 210 on DM-6 + Berlebach Planet
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mooreorless
Just worried
Reged: 07/05/05
Posts: 2248
Loc: Cornpropst Mills,Huntingdon,Pa
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"- Baader 90° amici prism (on back-order )"
Mark, I see this prism is back ordered in Europe as well as US. :-( Kenny could see if Chriships would let him use his.:-)
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Regards,Steve M
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medinabrit
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 10/27/04
Posts: 854
Loc: medina ohio USA.
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Kenny i have red dot finders on all my astro scopes & even on my 100mm PF Pentax spotter .I used to use the ones sold by astro shops but now i,m using the small Crossman air gun ones that cost $9 at Walmart .
I find that they work ok .Ifact i,ve just been out to get one for the Tak 22x60 .I have one on the Apogee 88RA,s too.
Some of them are fixed on with 2 sided sticky tape .
The one on the Tak 60 scope has held up for more than 2 yrs .
Just a low cost solution for finding stuff withnarrow FOV optics .Nice thing is they are small & light.
Brian.
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Rich V.
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 3143
Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
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True, Mark, but at least for me it's an expense I wrote off years ago! ;^)
The nice feature of a fluid head set up this way is that I can switch out the scope and attach one of several QR plate/ L backet combos I have for quick binocular use. The QR plates make it one minute conversion!
It's nice to have a multi-use mount that converts quickly.
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/71/150x100 Saturn III, 22x70ED, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 EII, 7x35 E, 8x30 EII,
7x26 Custom, 8x23CF AS Diplomat, 6.5x21 Papilio
Scopes:
C9.25, TMB130SS, SV80S-LOMO 80/480
IDA member
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Rich V.
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 3143
Loc: Lake Tahoe area, Nevada, USA
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BTW, Mark, I forgot about your magnification/steadiness question.
This setup is very steady up to 160X (the limit of my 3-6 Nagler!) Less than 2 seconds damping time. The clutches being relaxed makes movements even at high mag. very easy and smooth. A 501 set up this way would work great!
Rich V
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Binoculars:
33/50/71/150x100 Saturn III, 22x70ED, 16x70 FMT-SX, 10x50 PCF-V, 10x43 DCF-SP, 10x35 EII, 7x35 E, 8x30 EII,
7x26 Custom, 8x23CF AS Diplomat, 6.5x21 Papilio
Scopes:
C9.25, TMB130SS, SV80S-LOMO 80/480
IDA member
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