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EdZ
Professor EdZ


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Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes
      #347861 - 02/18/05 06:38 AM

New 25x100 IF arrived yesterday. I had but a brief hour to get out last night.

A few easy objects at first

Saturn was easily seen with rings well separated from the disk

M44 easily fits in the fov. I'll have to compare a star count to one I did the other night. With the BT100 and 20TV plossl at 31x I was able to count 119 stars in a 1.7 fov. Next chance I get I'll try this 25x100.

The moon was a little more than half full and high and bright. it interfered. But I tried for a few galaxies anyway. Of M65/M66 only one was seen and it was pretty faint. M81/M82, looking away from the moon came in very nicely and both were fairly easy, large and bright.

The moon has a thin yellow band. When eyes were moved off axis the band would change to blue and purple and become thicker. Staying on axis really minimized the CA and it was no more objectionable than some other binoculars.

Collimation was dead on. But there is a difference in barrel field of view overlap.

Focus is a very nice pinpoint in both sides. I noticed this morning that both diopters are reading between +2.5 and +3 on the scale. I was wearing my corrective lenses. The total dial range is about 7 to 8 ticks in each direction from zero. When using with my glasses on my best binoculars, I'm right on zero. This should not be a problem. On an IF binocular that means more close focus range in the minus diopter direction. I did not try viewing without my glasses. That might present some problems depending on your perscription.

Interpupilary distance is limited to a minimum of 61mm. The range is 61mm to 71mm and is indicated properly as such on the scale.

The vertical mount post is short. That means the binocular barrels rest on top of the tripod head and there is limmited range to slide the vertical post for balancing. When pointed up, it didn't seem to pose any problem. It would be a problem if you were using them to look horizontally and you wanted to move the balance point forward. While the slide rod is probably 10" long, once that vertical post is attached to the top of the tripod, you can only use about 5" of that full slide rod length. I would have preferred a taller vertical post similar to the post on the older 20x80 Deluxe.

I could see 23 Cancer was a double, but I could not see the components separated. 23 Cnc is only 5.1" wide. I've never split a double that close at 25x. I even tried 16 Cnc and while it was seen to be double at 6.0" it was not split. That also would have been better than I've ever done at 25x, but just on the edge. I did cleanly split Struve 953 in Monoceros, just below the Christmas Tree cluster. It's 7.1" and mag 7.

I measured the field of view on several different star groups. I got the same result several times. The Tfov is 2.35. That gives an Afov of 58.

Eye relief was substantial and easily allowed me to view the entire field from edge to edge while viewing with my glasses and the eyecups folded down.

These are really big. They are just over 17" long, 9" wide and 4.5" high. The spec says they weigh 10 pounds. I had these mounted on a ScopeStuff 2D Binocular Mount Head attached to a 3130 Bogen head on a 3011 tripod. This binocular is way too much overload for that equipment setup. The whole setup would take about 15 to 20 seconds to stop shaking every time I moved it. I had all the screws tightened about as much as I could and still it wasn't enough to keep this binocular from moving. This is definitely a case where you will spend more for the mount than you will for the binocular.

These come in a real nice hard storage case.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21

Edited by EdZ (02/18/05 08:59 AM)


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Anonymous
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #347874 - 02/18/05 07:07 AM

Hello Edz,

Nice write up. I understood fairly well everything that you wrote about except barrell overlap. What does this mean. I am kind of new to the bino scene. Thanx

Roger


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Alby
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Reged: 02/12/05
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #347877 - 02/18/05 07:10 AM

Thx Edz for the 1st thoughts. I eagerly await more.
May you explain barrel overlap?

I'd really like to know how they compare to the 45' Oberwerk astronomy binocs?

Cheers

--------------------
Alby

Scoping Savant
10in LX200 Classic SCT
Oberwerk BT 100 45
7x50 USSR Binocs
Nikon Action Extreme 10x50 binocs


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Anonymous
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: Alby]
      #347926 - 02/18/05 08:28 AM

EdZ, I am glad that your binoculars safely arrived. First light is exciting! I'll be looking for more information as you really put your 25x100 IF to task.

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EdZ
Professor EdZ


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: ]
      #347939 - 02/18/05 08:45 AM

Barrel overlap means the fields are not the same in each barrel of the binocular. As an example if the fields were exactly the same in each barrel, then if you were to observe an object placed at the extreme edge of the field in one barrel it should also be at the same extreme edge position in the other barrel. In this case it is not. A star placed on the extreme edge of the field in one barrel is observed well inside the edge in the other barrel.

Best way I could describe it is this. If I were to fix the binocular field of view on a yard stick at some distance away, in one barrel I would see from the 5" mark to the 30" mark. In the other barrel I would see from the 7" mark to the 32" mark.

edz

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Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
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Edited by EdZ (02/18/05 09:04 AM)


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johnno
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #347998 - 02/18/05 09:33 AM

I also wondered what it meant,good explaination,Thanks
John


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Erik D
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: johnno]
      #348080 - 02/18/05 10:33 AM

Hi Ed,

If the binos are well collimated but have barrel overlap does that mean two barrels have different size FOV?

I was hoping the 25X100 IF or Burgess S2 would performed noticeably better than generic 25X100s from Apogee/Burgess S1/Celestron. I did not get that impression from your post above. Sounds like the new 100 IF still need improvement optically and mechanically...... Is edge sharpness better? How about false color in day time viewing? Don't remember if the IF is suppose to have triplet objectives.

Erik D


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Anonymous
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: Erik D]
      #348108 - 02/18/05 10:52 AM

I had the IFs for about a week before returning them. I agree with Ed on the vertical post being too short and the barrels hitting the tripod head. I also noticed some CA during daytime observing. These are not triplets according to Kevin at Oberwerk.

The reason I returned them was the size. I had them on a 501/3221 and still had problems with shaking when trying to adjust them; especially if you have the tripod adjusted very high.

Optically, I thought they performed very good. I also had no problem resolving Saturn's rings. Stars were pinpoint. I think the 20x80 Deluxe II is probably much easier to work with, since it is much shorter and 3 lbs lighter. I hope to order them or the 20x80 standard soon.

Just a side note. I bought the heavy duty deluxe C adapter from Kevin last month and the Stellarvue RDF. I love them both. The adapter is industrial strength! You will not overload them. The RDF makes it so much easier to sight in objects. Right now I have my Obie 15x70 on them. They look undersized compared to the adapter and RDF!

Shawn B


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EdZ
Professor EdZ


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: Erik D]
      #348187 - 02/18/05 11:52 AM

Quote:

If the binos are well collimated but have barrel overlap does that mean two barrels have different size FOV?




They do not have different size fields of view. FOV size is the same.

This is one of the conditions of alignment. Remember in the collimation it talks about mechanical alignment and optical alignment. what you have here is an example of either barrels not on perfect mechanical axis or objective lenses not delivering an image in exact optical axis. To merge star images, prisms are moved. You can get the two pinpoint stars to come together, but they are coming down through the barrels on a slighly different axis. So the prism adjustment bends the axis a little to merge the stars, but it cannot correct the entire field of view in the barrel.

Many binocular have a slightly different field of view in each barrel. If the differnce is large enough, it becomes quite disconcerting to the eyes. I measure it in all my binoculars and find it not bothersome when it is 2% or 3% of the field, about 5 to 6 arcminutes in a 4 field of view. But if the difference in the fields is 5% or more it can be really difficult on the eyes. This would require bench alingment to correct.

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
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Beg
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #361110 - 03/02/05 09:52 AM

Hi EDZ.
I was wondering if you had a chance to get these out a little bit more under the stars. Was wondering how these compared to the views of the 22x100's that you looked through before. I'm also curious if these are the same as what Orion is selling. The specs sound pretty close. The wording is just a little bit different in the ads.


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EdZ
Professor EdZ


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: Beg]
      #361133 - 03/02/05 10:07 AM

Haven't yet had the opportunity to collect a lot of observations. Maybe in a month or two.

I can't compare to orion because I don't personally have an Orion.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
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EdZ
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: Beg]
      #362448 - 03/03/05 11:02 AM

Stretching my eyes to their limits, and recording several measurements, I can see a visually measured maximum field of view of 2.35 in the Oberwerk 25x100 IF.

I was able to observe a 7.3 arcsecond double (11 Mon) still cleanly separated at about 50% to 60% out from center for an apparent resolution of 183 arcseconds. That's really very good central area resolution performance and at the 60% out mark exceeds the capabilities of the Celestron 25x100 by nearly a factor of 2. It also exceeds the capabilities of the Oberwerk 22x100 which at very best achieved a resolution of 310 arcseconds at 60% out.

I mentioned I would do a star count on M44 and compare it to some others. On this night even with moonlight interfering, I counted 101* with the 25x100IF, 60* with the 15x63 MiniGiant, 58* with a Pentax 16x60 and only 44* with the 10x60 Oberwerk Mariner. Last month on a completely dark night of no moon, I counted 119* with the BT100 at a magnification of 31x.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21

Edited by EdZ (03/03/05 11:05 AM)


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CESDewar
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #363207 - 03/04/05 01:40 AM

Your comments have peaked my interest in these binocs. I have a pair of Oberwerk 20x80LW's that were originally intended for terrestial viewing, but have enjoyed using them so much that I wanted to get a step up in performance. I was debating between the 25x100IF Oberwerk's and the Miyauchi 20x77BS-iB. Obviously the latter are twice the price and I had assumed would have commensurate optics, but from what you are saying the 25x100IF's are pretty decent, and if so, the extra light-gathering power might well outweigh any benefit the Miyauchi's would have. Do you have any opinion on that? The Miyauchi's are probably a better fit for the Unimount Deluxe I use, although I have weighted the 20x80's up to 10lb's (to match the 25x100's) and the mount can still handle it ok (although it struggles a bit). Any thoughts?

--------------------



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KennyJ
The British Flash


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: CESDewar]
      #363227 - 03/04/05 02:24 AM

CESD,

QUANTITY versus QUALITY ! -- a tough decision to make :-)

I look forward to hearing the opinions of others on this.

Kenny

--------------------


Milton Wilcox R.I.P






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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: KennyJ]
      #363259 - 03/04/05 04:05 AM

I have always been curious about the quality of these big binos. I have had a very poor opinion of their lower-end products. Are the "Big Boys" worth the jump in price? Or, are they just a bigger, more exspensive version of their smaller sibblings?

ranburr


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EdZ
Professor EdZ


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: ]
      #363302 - 03/04/05 06:18 AM

Quote:

Your comments have peaked my interest in these binocs. I have a pair of Oberwerk 20x80LW's that were originally intended for terrestial viewing, but have enjoyed using them so much that I wanted to get a step up in performance. I was debating between the 25x100IF Oberwerk's and the Miyauchi 20x77BS-iB. Obviously the latter are twice the price and I had assumed would have commensurate optics, but from what you are saying the 25x100IF's are pretty decent, and if so, the extra light-gathering power might well outweigh any benefit the Miyauchi's would have. Do you have any opinion on that? The Miyauchi's are probably a better fit for the Unimount Deluxe I use, although I have weighted the 20x80's up to 10lb's (to match the 25x100's) and the mount can still handle it ok (although it struggles a bit). Any thoughts?





Quote:

I have always been curious about the quality of these big binos. I have had a very poor opinion of their lower-end products. Are the "Big Boys" worth the jump in price? Or, are they just a bigger, more exspensive version of their smaller sibblings?




I think both these articles will provide you with the answers to your questions.

100mm Binoculars - What Can You See

What can be Seen in Various Sizes Binoculars


The short answers to some of the questions above;
Yes, you will see more with 100mm binoculars.
Don't expect premium quality at a non-premium price.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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Anonymous
Unregistered




Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #363344 - 03/04/05 08:20 AM

Quote:

Don't expect premium quality at a non-premium price.




You said a mouthful right there. The question of quality vs. price comes up again and again.


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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer


Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 2085
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #363674 - 03/04/05 01:03 PM

I think both these articles will provide you with the answers to your questions.
100mm Binoculars - What Can You See

Ok - I'm pretty new to this forum and only just starting to realize how many existing resources there are around here. The report above was most helpful. My conclusion is that ignoring size/weight/cost issues, the 25x100's will definitely reveal significantly more even though the optical quality will be lower than the Miyauchi's and so that's what I ordered. Helpful comments on this forum also led me to get a high-quality parallelogram mount and, most importantly, the SunTracker swivel chair which has finally made bino-viewing a real pleasure!

--------------------



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Craig Simmons
Carpal Tunnel


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: CESDewar]
      #363692 - 03/04/05 01:14 PM

Welcome to CN. I was curious about how well a swiveling chair would work with a P-mount. I would think that you could have more FOV than with a fixed chair since you could pivot around the binos without having to move around in the chair that much.

--------------------
Craig Simmons
Oberwerk 8x56, 20x90
Nikon Action IV 10x50
Barska 15x70
Galileo 20x60
Stellarvue 15x63, 20x85
Orion XT10 pre-Classic
Antares 10
Stellarvue AT1010


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Anonymous
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: CESDewar]
      #363717 - 03/04/05 01:37 PM

Quote:

the 25x100's will definitely reveal significantly more even though the optical quality will be lower than the Miyauchi's




It is interesting that you said that because I was recalling the conclusion of a previous dicussion on this forum a few months ago where it was plainly stated, as sort of a final statement by EdZ I think, that aperture area wins over optical quality for light gathering gain...ultimately.


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rouseyfire
sage


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: ]
      #364016 - 03/04/05 06:19 PM

Having the 20x80 Deluxe II's and enjoying them greatly, I'm looking at the 25x100 IF's and wondering if the same quality is found. Based on Ed's first notes, it seems that they may be as good as the 20x80's.

Both Ed and Sleepy are using tripods rated at 13.3 pounds and both believe them to be lacking for the 10 pound IF's. I have a 3021 which is rated for 15.4 pounds. I don't mind buying the 501 head to replace my 3130 which is rated at 8+ pounds for usage but would hate to add another tripod into the mix.

Any ideas if the current 3021 tripod with a new 501 head would work with the 25x100's?

--------------------
glenn



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EdZ
Professor EdZ


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: rouseyfire]
      #364043 - 03/04/05 07:02 PM

The 3021 carries the same load as the 3011/3211, 13.2#. The 501 head is overrated for that tripod, but I think that really is not an issue. I had a problem with the 25x100 on the 3130 head. The 3130 head is too small. I moved my 25x100 over to my 501 on 3246 legs. I think moving to the 501 head should work well.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: Craig Simmons]
      #364094 - 03/04/05 08:43 PM

Quote:

I was curious about how well a swiveling chair would work with a P-mount. I would think that you could have more FOV than with a fixed chair since you could pivot around the binos without having to move around in the chair that much.




Yes, they work very well. Of course my ideal setup is hand-holding my Canon IS binoculars - you don't get much more freedom than that! But most evenings, I choose a section of the sky to "work" on, and I can cover a pretty good area - every now and then I will get up and shift the chair, but you can cover a good quadrant of the sky pretty well. And I find you can even manage looking straight up without too much effort lying back in the chair (until then, I was seriously thinking I would have to get a pair of binos with 45 or 90 degree eyepieces, but I actually prefer the straight-through-look as I like following the naked-eye view without changing my visual orientation.

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EdZ
Professor EdZ


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: CESDewar]
      #364108 - 03/04/05 08:56 PM

Quote:

I was curious about how well a swiveling chair would work with a P-mount.




Depends on the type of Pmount.

A swivel chair is useless with a Paragon type pmount.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #364272 - 03/05/05 01:00 AM

Quote:

A swivel chair is useless with a Paragon type pmount.




Well degrees of freedom on the mount are very important. I have a Unimount Light Deluxe (6) and was pleasantly surprised to find out how well it works. And the SunTracker is a light chair that's pretty easy to "scoot" around a bit as needed. If you are going to constantly scan different sections of the sky, it's not going to work that well, but if you are going to find an object and then spend several minutes observing, it certainly works nicely for me as it provides a very comfortable viewing position (certainly better than standing up with my neck craned which is what I was doing before!).

--------------------



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cota_scope
sage


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #364476 - 03/05/05 08:54 AM

ed i notice on my nova 25x100 that the barrels were overlaping.rotating the left side were in alignment some times but found out that the the barrel threads on the left side were not machined perfectly straight and causing the field stop to move up and down. john

Edited by cota_scope (03/05/05 09:02 AM)


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btschumy
Vendor - Southern Stars


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: CESDewar]
      #364502 - 03/05/05 09:21 AM

Quote:

I was seriously thinking I would have to get a pair of binos with 45 or 90 degree eyepieces, but I actually prefer the straight-through-look as I like following the naked-eye view without changing my visual orientation.




Interesting you should say this. I have only used 45 or 90 degree binoculars a couple of times, but each time I was not totally comfortable with them. I was also happy to go back to straight through binos.

--------------------
Bill Tschumy
Southern Stars


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rouseyfire
sage


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: btschumy]
      #364509 - 03/05/05 09:32 AM

ED: Thanks for the input on the 501 head and tripod usage for the bigger 25x100's. My 3021N is shown as being rated at 15.4 pounds. I think the newer 3021 Pro is rated at the same 13.2 pounds as the 3011. The lower rating for the 3021 pro, I assume, is due to the center column being able to be repositioned from verticle to horizontial and the top portion of the center column being able to be detached. More connections/joints/swivels making the rating less than the 3021N model---I think.

I now feel better when thinking of getting a pair of the 25x100's with only a head upgrade instead of both head and tripod needed.

Thanks again.

--------------------
glenn



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Joe Ogiba
Postmaster


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: rouseyfire]
      #364529 - 03/05/05 10:13 AM

I use the 25x100 Apogee's on a 475 (3236) with 501 head and it works great.
http://www.cloudynights.com/photopost/data/528/17Apogee_25x100_Bogen_475_501.jpg

--------------------
Pentax PF-80ED,Meade 102ED APO,Orion EON 72,120ST
Apex 127,C6 XLT,CR150,C9.25,XT10 ,Celestron Regal 100 F-ED, CT152
Zeiss 7x42 FL,Canon 10x42L IS WP,15x50 IS
12x36 IS II , Pentax 8x32 ED
Garrett Optical 28x110 HD-WP Signature Series
Oberwerk BT-80 45, Apogee RA-88-SA
Denk II Power x Switch binoviewer w/13mm Ethos, 20mm Pentax XW's, 20mm Widescan III's.
21mm Ethos,17mm Ethos, 22mm Nagler, 40mm Pentax XW, 14mm Pentax XL, 5.2mm Pentax XL, 8-24mm Pentax XL Zoom, 31mm Axiom LX
Member #17


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EdZ
Professor EdZ


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: CESDewar]
      #364661 - 03/05/05 12:32 PM

Iagree degrees of motion are important. that's why I mentioned the paragon mount, which is very limited.

Parallelogram mounts - degrees of motion

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


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rouseyfire
sage


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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #364820 - 03/05/05 04:28 PM

Ahhh. I may be wrong as to the weight capacity of the Bogen 3021. The Bogen website says 15.4 pounds for the 3021N. The box and directions for this tripod show 13.2 pounds---I should have listened to Ed

Not sure how I'm supposed to tell the weigh capacity when Bogen is apparently not sure.

--------------------
glenn



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Rich N
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: rouseyfire]
      #364832 - 03/05/05 04:45 PM

Straight through gives that more "direct connection" with the sky but it isn't easy on the neck for lengthy observing sessions. I've used both 45 deg angled and 90 deg angled eyepieces and I much prefer the 90 deg angled eyepieces for astronomy.

Rich


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EdZ
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: rouseyfire]
      #364868 - 03/05/05 05:41 PM

the 3021 and 3021N must be two different tripods

edz

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CESDewar
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: Rich N]
      #364955 - 03/05/05 07:33 PM

Quote:

Straight through gives that more "direct connection" with the sky but it isn't easy on the neck for lengthy observing sessions. I've used both 45 deg angled and 90 deg angled eyepieces and I much prefer the 90 deg angled eyepieces for astronomy.




Well if you are standing or sitting in a conventional chair, I couldn't agree more, but with the SunTracker chair where you can lean far backwards, this becomes much less of an issue (and having a mount with 6-degrees of freedom of course is pretty essential too). I find I can even look at the Zenith without it being that uncomfortable. What we really need is to view in zero gravity - now that would REALLY work out well!

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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: CESDewar]
      #365318 - 03/06/05 08:43 AM

If I had a p-mount...THEN the neck relief would be there with a straight through configuration. If I had the 45 degree version of the BT, I could be fine with the fork mount I think. BUT, the straight through version begs for a p-mount.

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CESDewar
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: ]
      #381126 - 03/21/05 02:30 AM

After feedback on this thread, I recently purchased the 25x100mm IF's and am very pleased with the optical quality. I was a bit concerned before purchasing that I might have been better off with the smaller Miyauchi's, but that disappeared quickly after the first viewing session. The binos clearly got banged around badly during shipment as the collimation was so far off as to make them unusable, but it only took ten minutes to recollimate them and restore the performance I was hoping for. Night before last I got a definite split on Trapezium A-B which has not (for me) been attainable on my 20x80LW's, but then again my eyesight is not that good. The gap between Saturn's rings and the planet were visible. Sharpness holds surprisingly well, quite far out from the center. The view of M42 does not show as much detail as I see in my 8" SCT ('natch), but in many ways it's a more satisfying view in the binos because of the much wider field of view and context. I have some Burgess Binoviewers on order for the SCT and will be interested to see how those compare from the "satisfaction" viewpoint.

Looking at the moon exhibits considerable CA (not surprising), but it doesn't really interfere per se with viewing. I'm waiting for the next FM to really give these binos a good shakedown, but so far I've been been favorably impressed with the optical quality.

I use them on a p-mount - the Unimount Deluxe - yes it costs as much as the binoculars, but when I compare it with using a tripod (and I have a reasonable one) the convenience factor is enormous. The 10lb weight is at the top limit for the Unimount (this the Deluxe - not the Heavy-Duty Deluxe), but it *does* handle the 10lb weight without vibration being a big problem. Personally, I find that sitting in a swivel chair with a p-mount to be so vastly superior to standing and craning your neck at a tripod to make it worth the extra money. For a quick view, a tripod works fine, but if you want to spend 15 minutes looking at something 70deg. above the horizon on a pair of straight-through's, all the optics in the world won't outweigh the sore neck. I am finding this combination is a wonderful way to really learn where all the Messier objects are - there's nothing quite like viewing the sky with the naked eye and then swinging in a pair of large binos for a close-up view. At the last star-party I went to, everyone had their go-to scopes and were madly punching in the names of Messier objects. Personally, I rather enjoy the challenge of finding them .

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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: CESDewar]
      #381716 - 03/21/05 05:10 PM

I envy your UA P-mount. I hear that it is one of the best, most relaxed way to cruise the sky. If it wasn't for that high price thingy, I think we would all have one. I agree with your bins vs. go-to assessment. I can understand the huge appeal of go-to capability, but as a personal preference, high-tech gadgets can take away the (silent) pleasure of astronomy (and the education). Enjoy your big bins!

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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #396705 - 04/05/05 04:58 PM

Quote:

I mentioned I would do star counts on M44 and compare it to some others. On this night even with moonlight interfering, I counted 101* with the 25x100IF, 60* with the 15x63 MiniGiant, 58* with a Pentax 16x60 and only 44* with the 10x60 Oberwerk Mariner. Last month on a completely dark night of no moon, I counted 119* with the BT100 at a magnification of 31x. edz




Last night was a particularly good night. I observed a number of clusters and galaxies. In M36 I counted 22 stars with the 25x100IF. The double star at the center of M36 was seen clearly. I also spotted NGC1907 below M38 and NGC2158 below M35. M37 was well resolved, but the stars are so dense, it is very difficult to count them. I would say 40-50 were resolved.

I've observed M44 and M67 on several occasions now. Some nights produce better results than others, but those results generally are reflected across all the binoculars used. From 5 different sessions, this is how binocs compare on total number of stars observed in M44 (larger number) and also in M67 (much smaller number) in a specific field, (meaning I don't keep counting out to the edges of the field in the wider binocs, I observe the same field in ever binoc). In M44 the stars are all spread apart and it is a measure of light gathering, LM. In M67 the stars are dense, close and difficult to pull out of the glow of the background. While it still shows the light gathering, in some instances it may be more a measure of contrast.

M44 has 80 stars brighter than mag10 and 100 stars brighter than mag 10.9. Only the 100mm binoculars are seeing stars deeper than mag 11.0. The BT100 at 44x100 in mag 5.4 skies is probably seeing at least up to if not past mag12.

Binocular------M44*---M67*
Oberwerk 8x56 = 48*---1*
Oberwerk 10x60 = 54*---2*
Orion 15x63 = 66*---3*
Oberwerk 15x70 = 80*---3*
Fujinon 16x70 = 90*---6*
Burgess 20x80LW = 94*---4*
Oberwerk 25x100IF = 117*---20*
BT100 at 31x100 = 135*---22*
BT100 at 44x100 = 160*---26*

edz


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stendec
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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: EdZ]
      #400089 - 04/08/05 02:05 PM

Nice first review!
Have you compare it too Oberwerk 20x80 Standard?

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Re: Oberwerk 25x100 IF first notes new [Re: stendec]
      #400134 - 04/08/05 02:30 PM

You would need to read my review of the 20x80 standard and make comparisons between the two reviews. The 20x80 Standards are include in the minireviews links and in CN Reports "100mm Binoculars"

edz

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