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lighttrap
Reged: 02/06/04
Posts: 3833
Loc: cloudy, foggy, humid NC, US
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Did an optical expert spec your binos?
In Dornenburg & Page's excellent chef's primer "Culinary Artistry", they make the point that when it comes to defining the difference between mere cooking and true culinary artistry, less customer choice is often a good thing. At one end of the spectrum one has the fast food places that give the customer the illusion of "having it their way". A bit up on the spectrum are the cafeteria style restaurants that offer a bewildering smorgass board of combinations and choices. Most, consisting of stuff that's been out in a steam table for hours, and most of it offered more for it's homogenous acceptability than for it's actual taste or nutritional value. But, as one moves up into the category of really good restaurants, the amount of customer choice actually diminishes to the point that many of the highly sought after chef's offer only a very few choices of exquisitely select menu options. There's a reason for that. Often the customer isn't in the best position to know what's fresh, or what combinations work the best. There's an artform to combining what's available in the marketplace with what will result in the most pleasing product.
I see a direct corollary to the optics industry. Some of these import companies are simply relying on the Chinese factories to tell them what's available, and then they just pick and chose from an overly long list of combinations that they think people will buy from them. Often, this means that there is never an optical expert involved in making sure that all the specified components will actually perform at their best.
Some time ago, I had one such Chinese optics importer inquiring about what it would take to break into the birding market. He rattled off a dozen possible configurations before I could get a word in edgewise. I suggested that he only offer 3-4 size configurations, but really work to insure that each and every component in whatever he chose to offer was the best that was possible given the source. It's hard to tell whether that message was received or not, as that particular entity hasn't really done much by way of shaking up the birding optics world.
Often, I think offering the consumer too many choices really does little but to confuse the whole larger issue. People get into decision stalling hesistation mode when wondering if the 11x56 or the 12x60 is exactly right for them. Or they worry that 40mm won't quite be the equal of 43mm. Or they worry that the 4mm exit pupil might not suit them as well as the 5mm. When what they should be wondering about is whether the overall quality will live up to their expectations for the amount of money they're willing to spend. The best test of that, is simply to try several different lines to see which suits one's taste.
Make no mistake. I'm not at all against customer choices and customer input. But, too frequently, it seems that the choices offered are essentially meaningless distinctions that don't even address the more central issue of how suitable the individual components are to be used as a package. More and more, I'm coming to the conclusion that binoculars are too complex for the specifications to be left up to the consumer or the importer, or the factory assembly line worker. It takes a good bit of optical expertise to really come up with an award winning combination.
That's really a good bit of what one pays for when moving up the optical tier. Higher quality ingredients and more expertise usually result in a better product. At some level, the amount one pays has a great deal more to do with marketing, branding, snob appeal and advertising, same as with any product. But what's remarkable to me is how much better a product one generally gets if one moves up into the mid-range of expert involvement. That's as true of binoculars as it is of food. Often, the best meals can be found in small, local establishments with a good degree of longterm customer loyalty, and often at prices that aren't much more than fast food.
One doesn't have to pay through the nose for some haughty, critically aclaimed designer chef's approval to enjoy good food. Nor does one have to spend mega bucks on optics to find a satisfying binocular. But in both cases, it takes more than an assembly line worker or marketeer involvement to come up with a worthy product. I would suggest that the step up from the very bottom rungs on both the food and optics ladders are the most meaningful steps. Unlike with food, it's tough to make one's own binoculars, so it makes sense to make sure that there's some expert help involved in the process somewhere.
There's a reason that most of the highend and even many of the mid-range optics companies don't offer every concievable configuration and size. They're not all needed.
Mike Swaim
-------------------- 18" Starsplitter II f/4.5
8" Hardin Dob f/6
C5 workhorse mini SCT f/10 or f/6.3
70mm TV Ranger dual purpose birding/astro
77mm Leica Televid APO
16x70 Fujinons on UA Deluxe Mt.
12x50 Nikon SE
8x30 Nikon E2s
and many others
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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Hi Mike ,
I'd intended to reply a bit earlier , but got a bit sidetracked ! :-)
Interesting comparo , insightful reasoning and sensible summary .
Similar things could be said about many musical instrument manufacturers .
Going back to the the topic of food , though , only a few weeks ago , when in a local supermarket , I noticed that for what we in the UK call crisps and most Americans tend to call chips , there was more shelf space taken up with all the various varieties than the total shelf space occupied by all vegetables , fruits , herbs and spices put together !
Well written , Mike , and although I doubt very much if you will ever read this , I hope your " new lifesyle " is reaping the benefits it and yourself thoroughly deserve .
Kind regards Kenny
--------------------
Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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sparrow
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/10/06
Posts: 1002
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Quote:
Often, I think offering the consumer too many choices really does little but to confuse the whole larger issue. People get into decision stalling hesistation mode when wondering if the 11x56 or the 12x60 is exactly right for them. Or they worry that 40mm won't quite be the equal of 43mm. Or they worry that the 4mm exit pupil might not suit them as well as the 5mm. When what they should be wondering about is whether the overall quality will live up to their expectations for the amount of money they're willing to spend. The best test of that, is simply to try several different lines to see which suits one's taste.
I think to a great extent it starts with the consumer. I don't know how many times I have been asked what is a good "birding" bins or what bins do you use? Even on this forum I have seen endless threads on optical navel gazing about which bins are "better" than another.
More often than not what is not asked is "for what purpose?" Good better and best is treated as if it was a purely objective abstract technical question that needs no reference to the optics intended purpose. Even my Leicas and my Zeiss are, at the end of the day, just tools to accomplish some function and nothing more.
If the customer had a clear idea as to the ultimate use he intended to put his bins the answer to the questions you ask in the above quote would be much clearer.
Simply put: to a great extent the consumer optics market is confused because the consumer is confused - he simply does not want to sit down and ask the hard question "how is this tool going to be used.?"
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KennyJ
The British Flash
Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
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< I think to a great extent it starts with the consumer.>
That is a thought provoking point , Sparrow !
A related problem is that there are so many DIFFERENT TYPES of consumer .
The following stats are purely speculative , but hopefully come plausibly close to reflecting the situation as is :
95% of the world's population either literally cannot afford to , or will have no interest whatsoever in , ever buying ANY binoculars .
Let's try to split the remaining 5% into likely " consumer groups " !
So we will start again with a 100% figure , representing the 5% of the population that WANT to buy binoculars , for whatever reasons .
Again -- purely speculative figures to follow :
Of this group , let's guestimate :
45% want binoculars for birdwatching 15% want binoculars for watching sporting events 10% want binoculars for hunting 10% want binoculars for military / marine use 10% want binoculars for NON - SPECIFIC use 5% want binoculars for astronomy use 5% want binoculars to collect or re - sell
Of the 45% who want binoculars for birdwatching , 20% ( of the 45% -- i.e 9% of the binocular - buying public , are prepared to pay at least the equivalent of two weeks' wages for them ( the market target for the BIG FOUR's latest top of the line roof prism models )
Another 45% of birders are prepared to pay the equivalent of one week's wages for some VERY GOOD binoculars ( which may cost only half as much as the BIG FOURS' big guns , but nonetheless are 95% as good , optically )
10% of keen birders would love to own some BETTER quality binoculars , but can either only afford , or are only prepared , to pay the equivalent to ONE DAY'S wages for their binoculars .
So , although over - simplified , you can see that we have THREE distinctly DIFFERENT types of consumer , just within the BIRDERS who buy binoculars .
There are SEVEN different categories of potential purchasers list above , and that is probably a vastly over -simplification -- but let's stick to seven .
EACH of those seven groups of types of binocular users could also be sub - divided into the three different categories of purchasers , just like the birders were .
So , regardless of how accurate or inaccurate my speculative " percentage types " figures are , this alone gives us 21 " different types " of consumer who may well wish to buy binoculars .
Many of these potential purchasers may not even have a CLUE about what constitutes a good , bad or indifferent binocular , and more of THEM than most of US may think , probably only want something that will fit into a pocket or handbag , REGARDLESS of how good , bad or indifferent it may or may not be .
So -- what does the MANUFACTURER actually MANUFACTURE ?
Do they have " spies " continually monitoring forums such as this , and react accordingly ? --
-- well -- maybe not THIS forum !! :-)
It must not be forgotten that for at least half a century , binocular manufactures made binoculars designed as if NONE of their potential buyers ever needed to wear glasses whilst observing !
WHY ? -- was there no such thing as ASTIGMATISM before the 1980s or 1990s ?
There have been signs , I truly believe , that with the expanding numbers of internet users interested in binoculars , ALL of the BIG FOUR binocular manufacturers , and I dare say quite a few more , ARE " listening " to the voices of the real world enthusiasts .
This could never really have happened in pre - internet times , and in the long run , I believe can only be a good thing , if not THE only good thing visible on the horizon of the binocular manufacturing industry of the future .
Here endeth tonight's midnight rant ! :-)
Kenny
--------------------
Milton Wilcox R.I.P
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Jimbo100
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/26/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: Oxford, UK.
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Quote:
Hi Mike ,
I'd intended to reply a bit earlier , but got a bit sidetracked ! :-)
Classic Kenny, classic!!
Incidentally, when I saw this thread listed earlier today, I ACTUALLY thought that Mike (Light Trap) had come back from the dead!! (Metaphorically speaking, of course.)
Out of interest, why did he leave? You mentioned something about a "new lifestyle" ?
PS. Please DON'T leave it 4 years 3 months and 7 days before replying to THIS post!!
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ronharper
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 2065
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The age of the thread merely demonstrates its timeless validity.
There's another issue I'd like to raise, also related to the placing of one's faith in the hands of a manufacturer or distributor, not an easy thing, especially if you are trying to go cheap.
We all like to think we know something about binos and can judge a good one by some of the simple "objective" tests that are often discussed on these forums. Looking at the reflectivity of coatings, looking down into the barrel for reflective parts, trying to find the results of laboratory tests of light transmission percentages, etc. It all seem to make perfect sense, and fit with the American Ideal of Pioneering Self Sufficiency. (Sorry, Brits) But I have found that in the real world, there is more to it than that.
I recently bought my first high end roof bino, a used Leica Trinovid. This bino frankly does not look good according to some of these tests. The coatings are all rather reflective. There is a large region of unblackened (although matte-finished) aluminum in each barrel, along which the focusing lens slides. The light transmission averaged over the visible is only about 83%.
But I have found this bino to be optically excellent, and I mean to say in comparison to a Fujinon FMT-SX, born with the graces of Porro prismed simplicity, 95%+ transmission, beautiful coatings, and excellent baffling and blackening inside the barrels. The Leica is very sharp, good in low light, well protected against intrusion of bright light coming in off axis, and the exit pupil floats in a pool of perfect blackness such as I have not seen in any other bino.
You know what I think? And, anybody is more than welcome to disagree with me on this. I think the engineers at Leica may know more about binoculars than me. I think I trust them now, not myself.
Ron
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