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MikeS
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 04/06/04
Posts: 1089
Loc: Quakertown Pennsylvania
GOTO for SkyView Pro new
      #176499 - 08/20/04 04:17 PM

Am I correct in saying that the Celestron CG-5, EQ-4 and Skyview Pro mounts are practically identical?

I have read somewhere that the LXD55 RA and DEC motors can be attached directly to these mounts giving them GOTO ability.

Is this correct?
Has anyone done this?
And if it were that easy, why in the world doesn't Orion come out with a SVP with goto?

Thanks
Mike S

--------------------
Mike Snisky
8" F5 Newtonian/Moonlite CR2
Orion Sirius EQ-G Mount
Astro-Tech AT6RC Ritchey-Chrétien astrograph
Orion 100mm F6
Orion 100mm ED on LXD55 Mount
Denkmeier Standards


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Greg K.Administrator



Reged: 12/11/03
Posts: 17634
Loc: Clifton Park, NY
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: MikeS]
      #176543 - 08/20/04 05:06 PM

If it were just a bolt-on modification to put the LXD55 motors onto the SVP head I'd probably do it, I like my SVP mount more than the LXD55. But the mount castings are different and I think it would take some modifying of the mount or the motor housings or both.

--------------------
Astro-Tech AT111EDT f/7 | AT72ED f/6 | Celestron CGEM
NexStar 11 GPS | Orion SkyView Pro 8EQ (w/ Autostar mod)
Canon EOS Rebel T2i (modded) | QHY5L-II mono

astrophoto gallery


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Rushwind
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 03/11/04
Posts: 2137
Loc: Newark, CA
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: Greg K.]
      #176575 - 08/20/04 05:54 PM

There are at least 2 or 3 CNers who have done this very modification. I saw WarpdHavoc's Vixen GP with the LXD55 motors on it. I think that BCB also did this mod.

Perhaps one or both of them will post with their results.

BTW, Celestron *has* released a CG-5 with GOTO; their AS-GT mount sells for $700. I don't know that Orion has *any* GOTO mounts in their stable (just the "push-to" DSCs with their Intelliscope Dob line).

Jimbo

--------------------
Order of the Unblinking Eye

NJP 300D SSAG 8"f/5 (Rig)
Guidescope? What guidescope?

I used to shoot Nikon DSLR.
Before that, I shot film.


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BCB
Undercover Saboteur


Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 6857
Loc: Look over your shoulder
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: Rushwind]
      #176594 - 08/20/04 06:35 PM

Yep, I've done the GOTO conversion with DS motors n a 497 Autostar.

The accuracy has been hit or miss (mostly miss) till I updated to the latest firmware. I tried using the LXD-55 setting, editing the ratios properly for the SVP mount, with results that were just plain horrid, even with a 3 star alignment. I then Used Dick Seymours patch on it, which removes the ds70, and adds the 4504 GEM model in the telescope selection. Then I reupped the patched firmware..I then redid the ratios, did a motor recal and retrain and recal again.

I've only managed to have the mount n scope out ONCE since I've made those last few firmware changes a few weeks ago. On the night the whole east coast got fantastic weather.

I dunno just what did it TBH.. Could be ANYTHING. From going the high power route (150x +) when I polar aligned it, to staying with that high a power when I did the 3 star alignment. It could be changing the scope setting to 4504 instead of lxd-55 (even though I have to set the ratios in either).. Heck, I dunno just what I did, but whatever it was worked..

Actually, worked isn't the word I'd use.. More like "perfection", in comparison to how it's been since I've done the conversion..

That one clear night I easily pulled off 20+ objects, that all either landed in a 26mm EP FOV, or came VERY close. (within 3-4 deg) Zenith objects were the ones that gave me some trouble, but objects on either side of the meridian came up great..

I will say this much:

If ANYONE plans on doing a conversion like this, it CAN be done.. But.. BE PREPARED to do some HEAVY troubleshooting. You WILL have to debug it, without a doubt.

My conversion was rather costly also.. You can do it on the cheap, but it'll look REAL nasty.. I went n spent the money.. 185 with the shipping for the motor mounts, gears n belts.. The motors n 497 controller, I horsetraded a with very good friend here. Expect to fork out about 120 for 2 motors n 497 handpaddle.. See how yer at 300 now JUST for parts ?? Now add the cost of the mount in, and REALLY think about this.. It adds up to MORE than the cost of a new LXD-75 with the reg 6" newt tube/no GOTO.. Just add the 497 and you got a full GOTO mount that by all accounts SHOULD be better than the 55 version, if Meads accuracy claims are correct..

Hope this helped, and gives you all some things to consider.. This whole thing, for me wasn't the hardest thing to do.. For some, it'll be a long suffering road, for others, a cakewalk.. Decide just how much troubleshooting/building your comfortable with and make your mind..

--------------------
Mark

Lost in thought. Please send search party!!!

Astro-Tech 111EDT
Orion 8" F5 Newt w/Moonlight CR-2 focuser
CGEM EQ mount
Treeline Observatory



Edited by BCB (08/20/04 06:37 PM)


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ccs_hello
Postmaster


Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 5224
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: BCB]
      #176808 - 08/21/04 01:22 AM Attachment (182 downloads)

First, the SVP must be tuned such that the load on the gear-train (esp. Delrin type) is reduced. LXD55/75 motor's gears are all metal.

There are few options:
1. Get a LXD55 (2nd hand) or a LXD75 mount so it comes factory standard (then use the SVP mount w/o Goto.)
2. Get the LXD55 motor (2nd hand): the mounting bolt has to be trimmed shorter to fit. There is also a minor glitch: spur gear (used on '55) on the Worm shaft is a little bit too large to fit the RA housing, so tweaking/grinding may be needed.
3. Use the DS-motors and the "Goto4all" kit. Check the total budget sheet first! Do a google on that word, it'll show you vast amount of info, usually converge in a place starting with the letter "R" (R.S.)
4. Try my poorman's approach: this is DH motor based. I'll show the RA and DEC photos. This is a bigger subject/project though. (Hint: DH output shaft needs a needle bearing.)

ccs_hello

Attachment


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ccs_hello
Postmaster


Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 5224
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #176810 - 08/21/04 01:24 AM Attachment (186 downloads)

DEC picture.
ccs_hello

Attachment


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BCB
Undercover Saboteur


Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 6857
Loc: Look over your shoulder
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: BCB]
      #176995 - 08/21/04 10:29 AM

I didn't have a chance to take a pic of my conversion, and the pics I DID have I deleted a few days ago...

Here's what a Goto4All conversion looks like on the SVP mount.

edit - picture is in a later post by BCB - John

--------------------
Mark

Lost in thought. Please send search party!!!

Astro-Tech 111EDT
Orion 8" F5 Newt w/Moonlight CR-2 focuser
CGEM EQ mount
Treeline Observatory



Edited by jrcrilly (10/19/04 06:17 PM)


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Don W
demi-god


Reged: 05/19/03
Posts: 19226
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: BCB]
      #177054 - 08/21/04 12:36 PM

Dang that's a huge image. Can you bring it down to one screen size please?

I have the same setup on a Vixen Great Polaris and it works great.

--------------------
DON'T PANIC!-Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Don Wyman
Obsession 18" f/4.5 #1166
W/Argo Navis DSC and Torus Primary


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Charlie HeinAdministrator
Postmaster


Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 11211
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: MikeS]
      #177772 - 08/22/04 04:02 PM

Quote:

Am I correct in saying that the Celestron CG-5, EQ-4 and Skyview Pro mounts are practically identical?




Practically, but not actually. There are some considerations to take into account because of slight differences in design between different mounts. For example, be careful with the bolt used to attach the RA motor. It may turn out to be too long for your mount and if you tighten the motor assembly down you can puncture the small DC motor with the bolt, wrecking your motor altogether.

Quote:

I have read somewhere that the LXD55 RA and DEC motors can be attached directly to these mounts giving them GOTO ability.




Not quite, if you're talking about the SVP - the motor itself will bolt on ok with some modest modifications, but there's a clearance issue with the RA spur gear...



As you can see, the spur gear will not fit correctly because the design of the SVP has some extra metal in the way. Directly underneath that metal is the RA worm wheel, so if you want to remove the offending metal to get the stock spur gear on (which would then allow you to use the stock LXD55 settings on the Autostar), you'll need to completely disassemble the mount to avoid getting all manner of metal shavings stuck on the RA wormwheel.

If your SVP has never been torn apart and regreased, this might not be a bad idea in fact. Getting rid of all that black glue that they call grease is highly recommended anyway. Also, bear in mind that the plastic motor housing is not an exact fit either, so if you're going to cut off enough metal for the spur gear to fit, you might as well grind off some of the side surface too so that the motor housing fits nicely.

If you don't feel like tearing your SVP apart and grinding on it, another alternative would be to find another pair of spur gears, one that's small enough to fit in the space provided on the SVP, and another large enough to mate up to this gear from where the motor sits. You'll then have to calculate the ratio and enter it into the Autostar so that your goto will work.

Charlie

--------------------
Weston CSC:


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ccs_hello
Postmaster


Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 5224
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #224229 - 10/17/04 11:20 PM Attachment (201 downloads)

Just a new shot (SVP w/ GOTO) from a better camera.

ccs_hello

Attachment


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litespeed
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 10/31/03
Posts: 984
Loc: Space Coast, FL
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #224237 - 10/17/04 11:30 PM

Hello,

Wow,,,,, That shot is wayyyy better!

How is that working out for you? I've been talking around and I am looking for constructive criticisim before I consider taking the plunge and giving it a go.

Are you using the 497 controller? Are your objects always in the field of view? If not how far off? Why did you opt. for the gears instead of the pulleys and belts?

Just a few of about a thousand questions I have.

Any info. is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

AJ


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ccs_hello
Postmaster


Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 5224
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro [Re: litespeed]
      #224271 - 10/18/04 12:05 AM

AJ,

I got my new Canon A75 camera (15" exposure max., Manual capable, 1/1.8" Sony CCD and far better camera algorithm) which is far better than my earlier QC Pro 4000 (Sharp CCD type).

The GOTO accuracy is OK for visual (19mm Konig Russell 67 FOV), haven't tried Astrophoto (A75 is a compromise since the dream Digital Rebel's price hasn't dropped enough yet)

I am using a 497 controller but no PEC since my mount is not permanently fixed.

At one point I was thinking of using the MXL timing belt and pulley system (sdp-si.com) but opted for the easier and cheaper spur gear system. Although more potential backlash and no (Stepper motor jitter) damping effect, but for the DH-motor (or DS-motor) DC-motor servo based seems to be OK and I spent only tiny little bit $ on the GOTO upgrade.


ccs_hello

Footnote: I later joined the "242 club" like many . IMHO, the LXD motor is easier to work with and very easy to adapt. But I've already several months into my SVP-8N and DH motor mod. project and didn't know the LXD75-6N bargain pricing then.


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litespeed
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 10/31/03
Posts: 984
Loc: Space Coast, FL
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: ccs_hello]
      #225051 - 10/18/04 10:35 PM

Hello,

Nice camera......... I have had the A80 for a little over a year.... Incredible camera for the money!! I have had several Sonys and Nikons (0f the same caliber). The Canon kills em.

The battery life will blow your mind too with the right batteries. I use Rayovac I-C3 2000NIMH's. I use my camera every day with my business. I can literally go 2 weeks without a re-charge. That is using the camera every day!! After a year I still cannot believe it. Tough camera too. I never got the mount and adapter for my scope.... but I have had fun piggybacking it. I'll probaly get the setup this year. The only bummer is there is no bulb setting....

Keep me posted when you take pic's..... I'm VERY interested. Especially in conjunction with your new mount mods.

Try those batteries....... You wont be dissapointed!

AJ

--------------------
AJ


5"MAK
TouCam
20D

Uh Oh!... Whats that noise?...


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ccs_hello
Postmaster


Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 5224
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: litespeed]
      #225097 - 10/18/04 11:23 PM

AJ,

I am on the cheap side. Got a big box (60 pcs) of 2200mAH NiMH batteries. End up paying approx .80/ea.

You know Canon camera has the Remote Control API. Bundled Canon software "Remote Shooting" feature allows time interval shooting and directly send pics (no RAW ) to PC. So multiple 15" ISO 200/400, manual focus-infinity probably will compete well with uncooled CCD

BTW, Cam4You software can make this camera functions like webcam outputing AVI file. Nice!

But I know I want Canon 300D. Canon 300D, Canon 300D....


My longer term goal is to do autoguiding. E.g., Guidedog sends back LX200 serial commands to the 497 controller. I figure extracting the last juice from the mount takes more effort than just let PC do the work.

ccs_hello


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Charlie HeinAdministrator
Postmaster


Reged: 11/02/03
Posts: 11211
Loc: 26.06.08N, +80.23.08W
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: BCB]
      #225733 - 10/19/04 05:11 PM

Quote:

Here's what a Goto4All conversion looks like on the SVP mount.




What did you do with the control panel for the autostar?

Charlie

--------------------
Weston CSC:


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BCB
Undercover Saboteur


Reged: 11/24/03
Posts: 6857
Loc: Look over your shoulder
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro new [Re: Charlie Hein]
      #225787 - 10/19/04 06:12 PM Attachment (136 downloads)

LOL

Sorry peeps

Can a mod just delete my post with the large pic, or will that end up trashing the thread?? I can't edit the darn thing now.. LOL

By control panel, are you referring to the small panel that the motors n handpaddle plug into ? If that's what ya meant, take another look it's on the RA housing. Attached with one 8-32 cap head screw and washer. If you mean the handpaddle itself, I haven't done ANYTHING with it.. The darn velcro refuses to stay on wherever I put it.. The piece on the back of the paddles on real good though, but the other piece don't stick to save my life.. I usually just sit it on the tray most of the time..

I redid the pic to make it smaller..

Thanks JC The thread needed to be rid O that..

Attachment

Edited by BCB (10/19/04 06:19 PM)


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Greg K.Administrator



Reged: 12/11/03
Posts: 17634
Loc: Clifton Park, NY
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro [Re: BCB]
      #226072 - 10/19/04 11:37 PM

Thanks for reviving this thread - I'm interested in putting the motors from my LXD55 on my SVP mount, since it's got a much better RA section, with ball bearings etc.

Now, if only someone could come up with a way to make the LXD55 polar scope fit the SVP head..

--------------------
Astro-Tech AT111EDT f/7 | AT72ED f/6 | Celestron CGEM
NexStar 11 GPS | Orion SkyView Pro 8EQ (w/ Autostar mod)
Canon EOS Rebel T2i (modded) | QHY5L-II mono

astrophoto gallery


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ccs_hello
Postmaster


Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 5224
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro [Re: Greg K.]
      #226151 - 10/20/04 12:26 AM

Greg,

Please note the LXD motor mounting screw is 1/4" too long in the SVP application.

In general,
if working on SVP or CG5 mount, I suggest checking this thread out:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=lxd55&Number=176135&Forum=,f41

The worm shaft and its housing has too much play for these 2 types. The mod. was described there.

ccs_hello


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Greg K.Administrator



Reged: 12/11/03
Posts: 17634
Loc: Clifton Park, NY
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro [Re: ccs_hello]
      #226159 - 10/20/04 12:33 AM

Thanks - It's a shame all the hoops we have to go through to get these cheap mounts just to work well.

You don't happen to know of any links showing LXD55 motors adapted to the SVP do you?

I just checked and it seems that the LXD55 RA motor housing won't fit on without some significant modification. No such problem for DEC, I just added two washers between the motor and the DEC housing and it's spaced perfectly.

Sure wish I could afford a Vixen Sphynx

--------------------
Astro-Tech AT111EDT f/7 | AT72ED f/6 | Celestron CGEM
NexStar 11 GPS | Orion SkyView Pro 8EQ (w/ Autostar mod)
Canon EOS Rebel T2i (modded) | QHY5L-II mono

astrophoto gallery


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ccs_hello
Postmaster


Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 5224
Re: GOTO for SkyView Pro [Re: Greg K.]
      #226175 - 10/20/04 12:56 AM

RE: LXD motor on SVP

Please check with WarpdHavoc and this thread:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=lxd55&Number=151335


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