CLOUDY NIGHTS FORUM ARCHIVES
"Live Forums" can be found here: Live Forums


Equipment Discussions >> Binoculars

Pages: 1
EdZ
Professor EdZ


Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Small Binoculars - Resolution
      #1864974 - 09/25/07 02:30 PM

Not yet prepared to list tables of data, but thought I would share some general summary of my results.
In no particular order within each group

Best resolution performance on axis at normal power
Fujinon BFL 8x42
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40
Nikon Action Extreme 8x40
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
William Optic 7x50 ED

Best resolution performance boosted to 6x normal power
Nikon 12x50 SE
Nikon Action Extreme 12x50
Fujinon 10x70
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50

Best resolution performance hand held
Fujinon BFL 8x40
Oberwerk Mariner 8x40
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
William Optic 7x50 ED
Of course here you should keep in mind even though a hand held 12x50 may not see as small a resolution value as an 8x40, it will still see a lot more because of power.

Best off axis resolution (field sharpness)
Nikon SE 12x50
Pentax PCF III 12x50
Pentax PCF WP 10x50
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40
Oberwerk Mariner 10x60
Oberwerk Mariner 8x40
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
William Optic 7x50 ED

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21

Edited by EdZ (09/26/07 12:52 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
BillC
on a new path


Reged: 06/04/04
Posts: 4391
Loc: Lake Stevens, WA, USA
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: EdZ]
      #1865027 - 09/25/07 02:52 PM

I'm sorry EdZ, you can call it prose and be technically correct. But don't try pushing it as a poem, Iambic Pentameter or otherwise!

Cheers,

Bill

--------------------
William J. Cook, Chief Opticalman, USNR-Ret.
Ophthalmic Tech, Naval Station, Everett, WA
Optical Mechanic, Puget Sound Naval Shipyard
Founder, Amateur Telescope Making Journal
21-year Mgr., Optics Dept., Captain's Nautical Supplies
Optics Mechanic, Ft. Lewis, WA.
Contributing Editor for Numerous Magazines

It's better to be a "has been" than a "never was." But only barely; the pay is about the same!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Moggi1964
Vendor - Astro Laugh


Reged: 11/07/05
Posts: 3636
Loc: Madison. NJ. USA
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: BillC]
      #1866180 - 09/25/07 11:11 PM

Yeah! What Bill said

--------------------
Morris
www.astrolaugh.com
Astrosystems Telekit 10" with F/6 JC Wilkinson mirror



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ronharper
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 2065
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: Moggi1964]
      #1866315 - 09/26/07 12:32 AM

Ed,
I hesitate to ask for more from you, you do so much. But, it would be nice if you'd list the pool from which you have selected "winners". There must be some great binos that you don't own (though I'm sure you're working on that!) which of course don't get into the winners category, which might make somebody think they were losers, if they didn't know they weren't contestants.
Ron


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EdZ
Professor EdZ


Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: ronharper]
      #1866574 - 09/26/07 05:56 AM

The revised list of all binoculars is shown here as of 11/17/07.

Nikon SE 12x50
Nikon Action Extreme 12x50
Fujinon FMT-SX 10x70
Oberwerk Mariner 10x60
Fujinon FMT-SX 10x50
Leupold W R Mesa 10x50
Nikon Action Extreme 10x50
Pentax PCF WP 10x50
Orion Ultraview 10x50
Oberwerk 10x50
Garrett Genesis 10x50
Nikon Monarch ATB10x42 Roof
Pentax DCFHRII 10x42 Roof
Bushnell Legend 8x42 Roof
Garrett DCF 8x42 ApoRoof
Oberwerk 8x42 Roof
Oberwerk 8x56
Garrett Classic 8x45
Fujinon BFL 8x42
Swift Ultralite 8x42
Oberwerk Mariner 8x40
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40
Nikon Action Extreme 8x40
Nikon Action VII 8x40
Nikon SE 8x32
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
Captain's Storm King 7x50
William Optic 7x50 ED
Captain's Helmsman 7x50

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21

Edited by EdZ (11/19/07 12:05 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
KennyJ
The British Flash


Reged: 04/27/03
Posts: 20139
Loc: Lancashire UK
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: EdZ]
      #1867229 - 09/26/07 12:41 PM

< All these selections are from the list of 25 Small Binoculars that Iv've been posting on for several days.>

I counted 24 there , Ed - which one is missing ? :-)

Kenny

--------------------


Milton Wilcox R.I.P






Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EdZ
Professor EdZ


Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: KennyJ]
      #1867261 - 09/26/07 12:55 PM

oopps

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EdZ
Professor EdZ


Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: EdZ]
      #1883072 - 10/03/07 01:31 PM

poorest boosted 6x resolution on axis
Oberwerk 8x56
Garrett Classic 8x45
Nikon Action VII 8x40


poorest resolution (sharpness) in outer fov
Nikon Action VII 8x40
Nikon Action Extreme 8x40
Garrett Classic 8x45

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EdZ
Professor EdZ


Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: EdZ]
      #1903940 - 10/11/07 07:53 PM

Table of USAF Chart Resolution For Small Binoculars
Values listed are actual line pairs resolution measured in arcseconds and apparent resolution in arcseconds times magnification.

First is normal power actual and apparent.
Second is boosted 6x power actual and apparent.
Third id normal power hand held actual and apparent.
Last is percent drop mounted res to handheld res.

USAF * apr * USAF * apr ** USAF * apr ** hh lower
res ** res ** re6x * re6x ** rehh * rehh ** by
7.2 ** 87 ** 2.6 ** 184 ** 10.8 ** 130 ** 50% ** Nikon SE 12x50
7.2 ** 87 ** 2.7 ** 194 ** 10.8 ** 130 ** 49% ** Nikon Action Extreme 12x50
8.6 ** 86 ** 3.0 ** 180 ** 13.6 ** 136 ** 58% ** Fujinon FMT-SX 10x70
8.6 ** 86 ** 4.8 ** 288 ** 12.9 ** 129 ** 50% ** Oberwerk Mariner 10x60
8.1 ** 81 ** 3.8 ** 230 ** 12.9 ** 129 ** 58% ** Fujinon FMT-SX 10x50
9.7 ** 97 ** 5.1 ** 307 ** 12.9 ** 129 ** 33% ** Leupold W R Mesa 10x50
9.1 ** 91 ** 3.2 ** 194 ** 12.9 ** 129 ** 41% ** Nikon Action Extreme 10x50
9.1 ** 91 ** 4.8 ** 288 ** 15.4 ** 154 ** 68% ** Pentax PCF WP 10x50
9.1 ** 91 ** 4.1 ** 243 ** 12.9 ** 129 ** 41% ** Orion Ultraview 10x50
8.6 ** 86 ** 4.3 ** 258 ** 12.1 ** 121 ** 41% ** Oberwerk 10x50
8.6 ** 86 ** 3.8 ** 230 ** 12.9 ** 129 ** 50% ** Garrett Genesis 10x50
9.7 ** 97 ** 5.7 ** 344 ** 12.9 ** 129 ** 33% ** Nikon Monarch ATB10x42 Roof
9.1 ** 91 ** 6.1 ** 365 ** 14.5 ** 145 ** 59% ** Pentax DCFHRII 10x42 Roof
10.3 * 82 ** 6.1 ** 292 ** 14.5 ** 116 ** 41% ** Bushnell Legend 8x42 Roof
10.8 * 87 ** 5.4 ** 259 ** 15.3 ** 122 ** 41% ** Garrett DCF 8x42 ApoRoof
10.8 * 90 ** 6.5 ** 321 ** 17.2 ** 143 ** 59% ** Oberwerk 8x42 Roof
10.8 * 86 ** 6.8 ** 325 ** 15.3 ** 122 ** 41% ** Oberwerk 8x56
11.5 * 92 ** 6.8 ** 327 ** 15.3 ** 122 ** 33% ** Garrett Classic 8x45
10.3 * 82 ** 4.6 ** 219 ** 14.5 ** 116 ** 41% ** Fujinon BFL 8x42
10.8 * 86 ** 4.8 ** 230 ** 16.2 ** 130 ** 50% ** Swift Ultralite 8x42
10.8 * 87 ** 5.1 ** 245 ** 14.5 ** 116 ** 34% ** Oberwerk Mariner 8x40
10.3 * 82 ** 3.8 ** 182 ** 15.3 ** 122 ** 49% ** Pentax PCF WP II 8x40
10.3 * 82 ** 5.4 ** 259 ** 15.3 ** 122 ** 49% ** Nikon Action Extreme 8x40
10.8 * 87 ** 6.8 ** 326 ** 15.3 ** 122 ** 41% ** Nikon Action VII 8x40
10.8 * 87 ** 5.7 ** 276 ** 15.4 ** 123 ** 42% ** Nikon SE 8x32
11.5 * 83 ** 4.3 ** 186 ** 15.3 ** 110 ** 33% ** Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
12.1 * 85 ** 7.7 ** 321 ** 17.2 ** 120 ** 42% ** Captain's Storm King 7x50
10.8 * 76 ** 4.8 ** 202 ** 15.3 ** 107 ** 41% ** William Optic 7x50 ED
12.1 * 85 ** 5.7 ** 241 ** 16.3 ** 114 ** 35% ** Captain's Helmsman 7x50


Edited by EdZ (11/23/07 10:24 AM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EdZ
Professor EdZ


Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: EdZ]
      #1995498 - 11/19/07 12:01 PM

New Binoculars added and all tests reviewed
Completed 11-18-07

Best resolution performance on axis at normal power.
These range from 76 to 83 arcseconds apparent resolution.
Fujinon FMT-SX 10x50
Bushnell Legend Roof 8x42
Fujinon BFL 8x42
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40
Nikon Action Extreme 8x40
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
William Optic 7x50 ED

Worst resolution performance on axis at normal power
These range from 97 to 90 arcseconds apparent resolution.
Leupold W R Mesa 10x50
Nikon Action Extreme 10x50
Pentax PCF WP 10x50
Orion Ultraview 10x50
Nikon Monarch ATB10x42 Roof
Pentax DCFHRII 10x42 Roof
Oberwerk 8x42 Roof
Garrett Classic 8x45


Best resolution performance boosted to 6x normal power
These range from 180 to 219 arcseconds apparent res
Nikon 12x50 SE
Nikon Action Extreme 12x50
Fujinon FMT-SX 10x70
Nikon Action Extreme 10x50
Fujinon BFL 8x42
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
William Optic 7x50 ED

Notable performances:
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50 reaches res of 4.3 arcsec at 42x
Pentax PCF WP II 8x40 reaches res of 3.8 arcsec at 48x
Fujinon FMT-SX 10x70 reaches 3.0 arcsec at 60x
Nikon 12x50 SE reaches 2.6 arcsec at 72x


Worst resolution performance boosted to 6x normal power
These range from 365 to 321 arcseconds apparent res
Nikon Monarch ATB 10x42 Roof
Pentax DCF HR II 10x42 Roof
Oberwerk 8x42 Roof
Oberwerk 8x56
Garrett Classic 8x45
Nikon Action VII 8x40
Captain's Storm King 7x50


Best resolution performance hand held
Bushnell Legend Roof 8x42
Fujinon BFL 8x40
Oberwerk Mariner 8x40
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
William Optic 7x50 ED
Captain's Helmsman 7x50

Of course here you should keep in mind even though a hand held 12x50 may not see as small an apparent resolution value as an 8x40, it will still see a lot smaller because of power. Therefore, I have compiled this set of data that gives an indication of the best hand held resolution for each magnification.

Oberwerk Mariner 7x50 and
William Optic 7x50 ED
could see down to 15.3 arcseconds resolution hand held.
The range of hand held resolution for 7x binoculars was 15.3 to 17.2 arcsec.

Bushnell Legend Roof 8x42
Fujinon BFL 8x40 and
Oberwerk Mariner 8x40
could see down to 14.5 arcseconds resolution hand held.
The range of hand held resolution for 8x binoculars was 14.5 to 17.2 arcsec.
Most 8x binoculars could see 15.3 arcseconds.

Oberwerk 10x50
could see down to 12.1 arcseconds resolution hand held.
The range of hand held resolution for 10x binoculars was 12.1 to 15.4 arcsec.
Most 10x binoculars could see 12.9 arcseconds.

Nikon SE 12x50
Nikon Action Extreme 12x50
could see down to 10.8 arcseconds resolution hand held.
These are the only two 12x binoculars tested for res.

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
camvan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 2142
Loc: British Columbia
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: EdZ]
      #1995855 - 11/19/07 03:23 PM

EdZ, can you tell me what you mean by 6x normal power? I don't quite understand that...

--------------------
Cameron

"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis

Intes MN66
Meade SN8
handfull of cheap ep's


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EdZ
Professor EdZ


Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: camvan]
      #1995871 - 11/19/07 03:32 PM

An auxilary scope of 6x is placed behind the eyepiece of the binocular. the resulting power instead of 8x is 48x, instead of 10x is 60x, etc....

This method is used also for testing magnification.

edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ronharper
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 2065
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: EdZ]
      #1996166 - 11/19/07 05:25 PM

Ed,
That is an awesome bunch of work, thanks so much. All these small bino results are just overwhelming. I value on-axis sharpness most of all bino qualities, so this recent resolution data is of special interest to me. In going over your results above, I noticed a couple of surprising things:

1)the top three unboosted binos don't even appear in the list of the eight best boosted, and

2)the Nikon Action Extreme 10x50 appears in both the lists of the worst unboosted and the best boosted.

It seems boosted and unboosted performance are not so closely related as I would have guessed. Do you understand this? I'd guess that whatever is going on, the consumer should probably use the unboosted performance as the real-life parameter, would you agree?
Thanks, Ron


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
camvan
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 05/02/05
Posts: 2142
Loc: British Columbia
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: EdZ]
      #1996302 - 11/19/07 06:18 PM

Quote:

An auxilary scope of 6x is placed behind the eyepiece of the binocular. the resulting power instead of 8x is 48x, instead of 10x is 60x, etc....

This method is used also for testing magnification.

edz



okay. that's something along the lines of what I was thinking. what 6x auxillary scope do you happen to use?

--------------------
Cameron

"Aperture can only be replaced by even more aperture. Dark transparent skies cannot be replaced by anything else." - Stathis Kafalis

Intes MN66
Meade SN8
handfull of cheap ep's


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EdZ
Professor EdZ


Reged: 02/15/02
Posts: 18806
Loc: Cumberland, R I , USA42N71.4W
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: ronharper]
      #1996610 - 11/19/07 08:18 PM

I've found there is some relation between noramal on-axis resolution and boosted resolution. However this correlation is not consistent. The results in my tests show it clearly. A few binoculars are in both groups, but some binoculars actually fall in the highest in one category and the lowest in the other. 4 out of seven that rank highest in normal power also rank highest in boosted power. It is those same 4 of 8 that rank highest in boosted resolution also rank highest in normal resolution.

There's another one or two in the highest normal res group that have boosted res near the lowest. And there are three others in the highest boosted res group that have normal res that did not come near the top.

There are far more inconsistencies between normal and boosted resoltion than there are similarities.

These were some of the consistencies.

Only three binoculars rated in the highest score for resolution in all three grougs, normal res, boosted res and handheld res.
Fujinon BFL 8x42
Oberwerk Mariner 7x50
William Optic 7x50 ED

Two binoculars rated in the lowest score for resolution in all three grougs, normal res, boosted res and handheld res.
Pentax DCF HR II 10x42 Roof
Oberwerk 8x42 Roof

However not far behind with two out of three scores in the lowest category, and a third low score at or below the median, three more binoculars come close to making it into this dubiuos group
Pentax PCF WP 10x50
Nikon Monarch ATB10x42 Roof
Garrett Classic 8x45







edz

--------------------
Teach a kid something today. The feeling you'll get is one of life's greatest rewards.
member#21


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
o1d_dude
o1der than dirt


Reged: 10/03/07
Posts: 2534
Loc: The Wolfpack
Re: Small Binoculars - Resolution new [Re: EdZ]
      #1997016 - 11/19/07 10:56 PM

The comparison I'm able to make is with my small Nikon 10x25 against the ancient Penncrest 7x50 I received for Christmas many years ago.

The Nikon win hands down.

--------------------
Kit

'Donít worry about what telescope you own, or its quality. Just get out under the night sky, and enjoy Godís wondrous universe.' - Thomas M Back

Edited by o1d_dude (11/19/07 10:56 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1


Extra information
0 registered and 366 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  EdZ 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 4351

Jump to

CN Forums Home



Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics