Daniel Mounsey
Vendor - Celestron
Reged: 06/12/02
Posts: 4899
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This is just a mini review. Yes, they are $4,500 but they are incredible. They don't weigh that much. Images edge to edge are pin point. I was surprised that even at 20x, there was not a trace of astigmatism and for the price there better not be. Some people get concerned about heavy weight, but don't forget that a heavier binocular will be more steady in your hands. The image stabilizer is completely mechanical and doesn't run on batteries. Over all, the images knocked my socks off. I could actually see Saturns rings, granted that isn't what these are for, but it was interesting. What really blew me away was M44. I was completely engulfed in it and felt like I was falling through it. Contrast at this magnification is superb. During the day, images snap right into focus with good contrast. Well, there you have it. 
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5618
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Hi Daniel,
Thanks very much for your review.
How much eye relief do they have?
The Zeiss website says this binocular has "enough" eye relief for
people wearing glasses but I don't like that "trust me" type of advertising.
What type of batteries does it use? How easy is it to change them?
Thanks,
Rich
Edited by Rich N (02/20/05 07:34 PM)
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Paul G
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/08/03
Posts: 4063
Loc: Freedonia
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No batteries. I played with them at Company 7 a couple of times and they are excellent binos. When you push down the image stabilization button there is a quiet "clunk" and the stabilization kicks in -- completely mechanical, very effective.
With the Canon IS binos I see a jitter in the image that drives me nuts, wouldn't own them for that reason. No such jitter with the Zeiss.
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Gus
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674
If it ain't broke, fix it 'til it is.
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5618
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Thank Gus!
No battery. That's interesting. Why have a button to "turn it on"? Why not have the stabilization feature on all the time?
I've seen the jitter with the older Canon IS. I've not seen it with my relatively new Canon 15x50IS.
Did you notice the eye relief?
Thanks,
Rich
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5618
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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You can tell it is a cloudy night, I'll try and answer my own question. Why not have the IS "on" all the time? Maybe the IS is too delicate to handle situations like shipping if it was always "on"?
Rich
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11steve
super member
Reged: 07/13/04
Posts: 109
Loc: Hamburg, Germany
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Hi Rich,
Zeiss told me that the reason why the stabilisation mechanism canīt be "on" all the time is to protect its special mechanics. Note: we have here a pure mechanical solution of a gimbal-mounted optical system. There are also some russian binoculars with mechanical IS solutions available and also one made by Fujinon for professional purposes that can combined with night vison devices which costs more than 10000,- Euro.
The angle of stabilisated movements is about 2 degrees (0,8° with the Canon 15 and 18x50 IS and with the Fujinon Techno-Stabi 14x40 5°) if my memory is right. I assume that the jitter with Canonīs IS comes from the vary-angle prism when itīs in work. That prism contains an optical liquid that enables changings of its shape to compensate the movements of the hands. I think itīs still impossible to calculate the optical properties of an optical liquid that is exactly as it should be with glasses but I also believe that this is a field where the development of optics can go for in the future.
I agree with Daniel that the 20x60 S is an outstanding instrument. If you compare it for example with a 18x50 Canon IS youīll notice that the Zeiss is much brighter and its optical resolution is better especially when the IS is "on". There is no rest of shaking and no jitter like with the big Canons and their is no delay in working of the IS mechanism like with the Fujinon Techno-Stabi. Otherwise the randsome sharpness of the Canon seems to be unbeatable due to flatfield lenses. Together with the ClassiC 7x50 B/GA T* the 20x60S is the last porro prism binocular of Zeiss available in their program in recent times. There is also a monocular available called the Zeiss Mono 20x60S. The optics of the 20x60S are very similar to that of the famous and unfortunately discontinued 15x60 B/GA T*. I would estimate its eye relief of about 15 mm. The eyecups are of the old fashioned foldable rubber shape.
Steve
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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor - Celestron
Reged: 06/12/02
Posts: 4899
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Yes,
eye relief is good enough for eye glass wearers. You just need to roll the eye cups down.
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Those binoculars must be quite nice. I hope they perform like $4500 binoculars! When you finally have a chance to write a review, I'll be very interested!
Quote:
Some people get concerned about heavy weight, but don't forget that a heavier binocular will be more steady in your hands.
Not to get off the topic, but this doesn't quite make sense to me. As your arms get tired from the weight, in combination with 20x magnification, these binoculars would be, by most standards I think, unacceptable for hand held use. How well, or how much, can IS technology compensate for shaking?
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Daniel Mounsey
Vendor - Celestron
Reged: 06/12/02
Posts: 4899
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Often, people are into the light weight thing, but there are always trade offs. Some people tend to have somewhat shakey hands or they tend to buzz a little bit. When the binocular is too light, it's more susceptible to to tranfering the vibration. The heavier it is, the more steady it is, but the less you can hold it up for longer periods of time. It's like planes. The smaller they are, the more they bump around because of turbulance. The bigger they are, the more steady they fly.
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Rich N
Post Laureate
Reged: 09/22/04
Posts: 5618
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area, Calif...
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Thanks very much Steve and Daniel! The Zeiss 20x60S sounds absolutely outstanding.
Rich
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BarrySimon615
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 2126
Loc: New Orleans, LA
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Quote:
It's like planes. The smaller they are, the more they bump around because of turbulance. The bigger they are, the more steady they fly.
And the faster they fall! 
Note - I tend to like binoculars on the heavy side too!
Barry Simon
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craig_oz_land
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 344
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Hi Daniel,
I would be interested to know how the Zeiss compare to the Takahashi Astronomers for on axis sharpness and chromatic abberation.
I would have to say though that the IS would be a blessing for a 20x binocular. Though I have found I get a bit of motion sickness when looking through them sometimes. Does anyone else notice this and is it something that one adapts to?
Regards, Craig
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Takahashi FS-102
Fujinon FMT-SX2 7x50
Takahashi Astronomer 22x60
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Erik D
Post Laureate
Reged: 04/28/03
Posts: 4066
Loc: Central New Jersey, USA
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Quote:
I would have to say though that the IS would be a blessing for a 20x binocular. Though I have found I get a bit of motion sickness when looking through them sometimes. Does anyone else notice this and is it something that one adapts to?
Regards, Craig
Check the "Canon IS Jitter" thread started by btschumy on 2/25/05. It's near the top of page 2 in this forum right now.
Erik D
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craig_oz_land
sage
Reged: 01/21/04
Posts: 344
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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Thanks Erik
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orbitaljump
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/29/06
Posts: 508
Loc: Charleston, SC
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I just ran across these Zeiss IS 20x60s in...
Optics for the Hunter
by John Barsness
fascinating.
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My God, it's full of stars!
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ronharper
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/14/06
Posts: 2065
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Here is Soyuz 5 commander Sergei Zolyotin, checking out some distant shore birds with the big Zeiss. weightless 20x60.
Ron
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doctordub
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/11/06
Posts: 1402
Loc: New Rochelle, New York
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Nice review!
Now what did I do with that $4,500.00 I had in my back pocket?
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TeleVue TV102, Intes Alter M703
AstroTelescopes AR152/Chromacor N, Mod. Zhumell Z12/Paracorr II
Meade 10" & 8" SCTs, Jason 60mm
Mod Orion 120ST, 127mm MCT
Vixen SXW & Porta, LXD55, iOptron GPS, Stellarvue MG2
Canon 10x42L IS, 15x50 IS, Bushnell 10x42 UL, Celestron Regal 8X42LX Nikon 7X35AE
Coronado PST, Lunt Wedge, CaK
Olympus E-510, Meade DSI, LPI,
TeleVue Binovue/SiebertPMW, Everbright, Ethos, Naglers, Pans, Plos, Pentax, barlows & filters,
Celestron SkyScout, Astrofix
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pcad
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/17/05
Posts: 2447
Loc: Connecticut
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Hi Daniel,
I have a Newcon 16x50 SIB and wrote a mini-review a while back in the cloudy days forum. It has a similar all mechanical/magnetic stabilization design. One of the big issues with the 16x50 was the much smaller than expected exit pupil. A 20x60 regular binocular should have a 3 mm exit pupil. Could you check what the exit pupil is?
I don't suppose you'll be bringing it to NEAF, but if you do, I'd love to see one in person. 
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Peter
Telescopes 25 - 318 mm
Binoculars 12 - 100 mm
Microscope 50x - 1000x
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brocknroller
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/16/03
Posts: 1983
Loc: Bedford Falls, Pa.
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Quote:
Often, people are into the light weight thing, but there are always trade offs. Some people tend to have somewhat shakey hands or they tend to buzz a little bit. When the binocular is too light, it's more susceptible to to tranfering the vibration. The heavier it is, the more steady it is, but the less you can hold it up for longer periods of time. It's like planes. The smaller they are, the more they bump around because of turbulance. The bigger they are, the more steady they fly.
Dan,
I said basically the same thing you did above on another thread and found that at least one person disagreed with me and even provided detailed test data to prove his point!
But I agree with you, because that's also been my experience (with bins and planes!).
However, the Zeiss price gives me "sticker shock". I will have to be content with a Pentax 20x60 (which also resolves the rings of Saturn) and a cup of Camomile tea to calm my shakes.
Thanks for that mini-review
Brock
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ngc6475
Fearless Spectator
Reged: 03/02/02
Posts: 5024
Loc: 38°21'N 120°55'W
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Quote:
Nice review!
Now what did I do with that $4,500.00 I had in my back pocket?
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Walter
"There are nights when the wolves are silent and only the moon howls."
-George Carlin
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