i finally gave up the ghost and bought the apogee's 25x100mm......the reviews are very acurate on this one, and for $300. you just cant gripe....i chose the apogee's strictly because of their better overall reviews.......put them against my stellarvue at1010, and subjected it to my ultra contrast test in daylight!!!!!....you see i've got this 400yard long field across from my house, at the extreme fenceline are solid woods.....in bright sunlight this forms a solid black wall of trees.......with or without a celestron viewer the stellarvue could not penetrate those woods.......i could see in aprox 40-50 yrds. with the binos !!!!!.....