SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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I posted this in the Planetary imaging forum but i thought i would put it here too.
For those who have a laptop and a Live view DSLR, Planetary imaging is very possible.
For this image i recorded the live view from my camera through a program called Eos_Movrec.
The scope used for this image was a 8" Lx200Acf @ f/20
(This is one of my colleges telescopes i was able to use)
In the future ill be able to image with my DSLR through a 16" Optical Guidance Systems Ritchey Chretien! 
hopefully those images will come soon  , but for now heres the Image i took of jupiter
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-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
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Rankinstudio
sage
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 411
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT, Lake Powel...
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Very impressive!
--------------------
David Rankin
http://www.rankinstudio.com
Astro Gallery
Orion 254mm F4.7 (imaging scope)
Baader MPCC
Quickcam pro 9000 (guider, imager)
Canon Rebel XSi (self modified)
Atlas EQ-G (EQ MOD)
Canon 50mm F1.8 II Lens
Canon 28-200 F3.2 Lens
DSLR peltier cooler
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nofxrx
Vendor (HyperCams & Mods)
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 2488
Loc: Palm Bay,Florida
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Agreed..
I have been toying with this idea for a while...
Now,you have given me hope to go ahead and do it!!!
Thanks!
Oh,VERY nice image!!!!!!!!
Great work Sal!
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Brent Oliver
WO-66SD*WO-Megrez102ED-Special Edition
CGE Pier-Mounted
Artemis285*OrionSSII-Mono
AstronomikLRGBHOS*AtikMFW
HyperCams&MODS
My Gallery
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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Thanks Brent and David,
Brent, the only tricky thing about DSLR planetary imaging is color balance. i find that the blue channel comes through weak, and the red from a modified camera comes out a little strong.
Im sure that the images come out nicer from a dedicated planetary camera. but im happy with the results.
Btw, How are the cooling mods coming for the canon Xs models?
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
Edited by SGT500 (10/23/09 08:19 PM)
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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Thanks Brent and David,
Brent, the only tricky thing about DSLR planetary imaging is color balance. i find that the blue channel comes through weak, and the red from a modified camera comes out a little strong.
Im sure that the images come out nicer from a dedicated planetary camera. but im happy with the results.
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
|
Rankinstudio
sage
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 411
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT, Lake Powel...
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I will give this a shot with my XSi when I am able to pick up a 5x televue powermate from optcorp to use with my 10" F4.7. Its a little fast right now, need to stretch that focal length a bit. Would the 5x be to much or should I go with the 2.5X or something else?
Thanks
--------------------
David Rankin
http://www.rankinstudio.com
Astro Gallery
Orion 254mm F4.7 (imaging scope)
Baader MPCC
Quickcam pro 9000 (guider, imager)
Canon Rebel XSi (self modified)
Atlas EQ-G (EQ MOD)
Canon 50mm F1.8 II Lens
Canon 28-200 F3.2 Lens
DSLR peltier cooler
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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Quote:
I will give this a shot with my XSi when I am able to pick up a 5x televue powermate from optcorp to use with my 10" F4.7. Its a little fast right now, need to stretch that focal length a bit. Would the 5x be to much or should I go with the 2.5X or something else?
Thanks
Hey David,
Im no expert but i hear that between 4,000 and 6,000 mm is a good focal length to do planetary imaging. 4000 on a more average night and 6000 on a great night. im sure in freakishly good seeing one could use more than 6000mm.
So based on this i would say a 4x barlow ~5000mm. i know televue makes a 4x barlow. or another solution to this would be to buy 2, 2x barlows. this way in good seeing you could stack the barlows to make a 4x barlow, and in poor seeing you could just use one 2 times barlow (~2500mm) focal length.
Just my opinion.
I hope this helps.
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
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Rankinstudio
sage
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 411
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT, Lake Powel...
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Yea, that makes sense. I will go with a 4X
Thanks
--------------------
David Rankin
http://www.rankinstudio.com
Astro Gallery
Orion 254mm F4.7 (imaging scope)
Baader MPCC
Quickcam pro 9000 (guider, imager)
Canon Rebel XSi (self modified)
Atlas EQ-G (EQ MOD)
Canon 50mm F1.8 II Lens
Canon 28-200 F3.2 Lens
DSLR peltier cooler
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rg55
member
Reged: 08/02/08
Posts: 94
Loc: western US
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Wow! This is just what I'm looking for!
Well done!
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C8 on AS-CG5 mount
Orion 127 mak
C80ED
Canon XSi
Sony HD videocam
Celestron Neximage
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Dan478
super member
Reged: 10/30/08
Posts: 141
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Sal, I too just obtained Eos_Movrec, and will try my 40D on Jupiter.
Any advise for you or anyone regarding trying this with eyepiece projection, since I don't currently have a barlow?
Thanks Sal....Great image!!!
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Dan
Southern California
LX-200 10" Classic
Canon 40D (unmodified)
Astronomik CLS LP Filter
6.3 Focal reducer
Link to my observatory and imaging site:
http://dansastroimages.blogspot.com/
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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Thanks rg55 and Dan,
Dan i would assume that for planets Afocal imaging would be very similar to prime focus. the only 2 pieces of advice i can think of giving would be to make sure focus is spot on, and dont take a AVI longer than 90 seconds for jupiter. this is because jupiter rotates so fast that anything longer than 90 seconds will not work well when stacking.
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-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
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Alex Post
sage
Reged: 09/24/08
Posts: 454
Loc: Iowa, USA
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Very nice Jupiter with a LiveView! I was unable to get that kind of a detail with my XSi. I will post my DSLR video moon yet again I am sure some of you guys are getting tired of seeing it again http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2161/platov1public.jpg and here is the thread about it.
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Bino: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, WO Binoviewer
Scope: Celestron NexStar 8SE, Stellarvue 9x50 Finder
EP: Hyperion 8mm 13mm 2x21mm(bino), 14/28mm FTRs, StellarVue 23mm with Rigel Pulse Guide
Misc: William Optics 2" Dielectric, DewBuster, Celestron f/6.3 FLR, Canon 300D and XSi, JMI Motofocus, Hutech IDAS LPS 2"
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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Thanks Alex!
Thats another great shot using live view. more proof that DSLR's are capable planet cams as well as DSO imagers
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3395
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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This is really cool for a liveview hack program , I cant believe you got that kind of detail.
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Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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Samir Kharusi
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/14/05
Posts: 983
Loc: Oman
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Quote:
Yea, that makes sense. I will go with a 4X
Thanks
Focal length is not the number you should use for estimating what is optimal, i.e. Nyquist Critical Sampling. Use focal ratio. Basically your focal ratio needs to be slower than or equal to 4*(pixel width in microns). So for a 500D (4.7 microns) you need f19 or slower (e.g. f20 to f25), for a 40D (5.7microns) you need f23 or slower. Basically, if you use a faster focal ratio than that "minimum number" (or Nyquist) then you will be under-sampling (bad). If you use a much slower focal ratio then the image will be dimmer and unnecessarily more prone to noise when it comes to the sharpening stage. All explained here.
--------------------
Bored? Peruse my website:
http://www.samirkharusi.net/
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Dan478
super member
Reged: 10/30/08
Posts: 141
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That is really a great image Sal...I just did some lunar/Jupiter imaging using the same Eos_Movrec program with an unmodded 40D tonight. I'll post the shots and ping you tomorrow after I process them.
--------------------
Dan
Southern California
LX-200 10" Classic
Canon 40D (unmodified)
Astronomik CLS LP Filter
6.3 Focal reducer
Link to my observatory and imaging site:
http://dansastroimages.blogspot.com/
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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Quote:
Quote:
Yea, that makes sense. I will go with a 4X
Thanks
Focal length is not the number you should use for estimating what is optimal, i.e. Nyquist Critical Sampling. Use focal ratio. Basically your focal ratio needs to be slower than or equal to 4*(pixel width in microns). So for a 500D (4.7 microns) you need f19 or slower (e.g. f20 to f25), for a 40D (5.7microns) you need f23 or slower. Basically, if you use a faster focal ratio than that "minimum number" (or Nyquist) then you will be under-sampling (bad). If you use a much slower focal ratio then the image will be dimmer and unnecessarily more prone to noise when it comes to the sharpening stage. All explained here.
Thank you for correcting me Samir. i will look into the Nyquist page you provided a link to.
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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Thank you Eric and Dan. It really is amazing the kind of detail that can be pulled out of a hacked live view video.
i cant wait to see your results dan
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
|
Rankinstudio
sage
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 411
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT, Lake Powel...
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Quote:
Quote:
Yea, that makes sense. I will go with a 4X
Thanks
Focal length is not the number you should use for estimating what is optimal, i.e. Nyquist Critical Sampling. Use focal ratio. Basically your focal ratio needs to be slower than or equal to 4*(pixel width in microns). So for a 500D (4.7 microns) you need f19 or slower (e.g. f20 to f25), for a 40D (5.7microns) you need f23 or slower. Basically, if you use a faster focal ratio than that "minimum number" (or Nyquist) then you will be under-sampling (bad). If you use a much slower focal ratio then the image will be dimmer and unnecessarily more prone to noise when it comes to the sharpening stage. All explained here.
Thanks for the info Samir I will now be able to decide If I want to get it for my mod'd QCpro9000 or my DSLR...
Cheers
--------------------
David Rankin
http://www.rankinstudio.com
Astro Gallery
Orion 254mm F4.7 (imaging scope)
Baader MPCC
Quickcam pro 9000 (guider, imager)
Canon Rebel XSi (self modified)
Atlas EQ-G (EQ MOD)
Canon 50mm F1.8 II Lens
Canon 28-200 F3.2 Lens
DSLR peltier cooler
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Alex Post
sage
Reged: 09/24/08
Posts: 454
Loc: Iowa, USA
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Wow that's mighty useful and will have an effect on my future work  Thanks Samir.
--------------------
Bino: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70, WO Binoviewer
Scope: Celestron NexStar 8SE, Stellarvue 9x50 Finder
EP: Hyperion 8mm 13mm 2x21mm(bino), 14/28mm FTRs, StellarVue 23mm with Rigel Pulse Guide
Misc: William Optics 2" Dielectric, DewBuster, Celestron f/6.3 FLR, Canon 300D and XSi, JMI Motofocus, Hutech IDAS LPS 2"
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nofxrx
Vendor (HyperCams & Mods)
Reged: 07/12/05
Posts: 2488
Loc: Palm Bay,Florida
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Quote:
Thanks Brent and David,
Btw, How are the cooling mods coming for the canon Xs models?
Hey Sal,
They are gettin there...I have been working pretty hard this week on them. I plan on having a working prototype by the end of Nov.. 
Thanks for asking!
CS!
--------------------
Brent Oliver
WO-66SD*WO-Megrez102ED-Special Edition
CGE Pier-Mounted
Artemis285*OrionSSII-Mono
AstronomikLRGBHOS*AtikMFW
HyperCams&MODS
My Gallery
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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Based on what Samir stated, with my setup the max focal ratio i shoudl use is f/22. so f/20 was a good match for my camera
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
|
Rankinstudio
sage
Reged: 04/05/08
Posts: 411
Loc: Salt Lake City, UT, Lake Powel...
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It must have been, the results were great
--------------------
David Rankin
http://www.rankinstudio.com
Astro Gallery
Orion 254mm F4.7 (imaging scope)
Baader MPCC
Quickcam pro 9000 (guider, imager)
Canon Rebel XSi (self modified)
Atlas EQ-G (EQ MOD)
Canon 50mm F1.8 II Lens
Canon 28-200 F3.2 Lens
DSLR peltier cooler
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kabes
member
Reged: 09/22/09
Posts: 16
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Has anyone tried doing this with a Nikon? There is a similar app for the D3/D300/D700 that captures liveview video that I just found: http://ogiroux.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/your-d700-shoots-video-too/
I'm going to give it a try with my d300 as soon as the weather clears (so maybe next year or something?)...
--------------------
Meade ETX-LS 6" ACF
Celestron Skymaster 15x70
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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Quote:
It must have been, the results were great
thank you again
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
|
SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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Quote:
Has anyone tried doing this with a Nikon? There is a similar app for the D3/D300/D700 that captures liveview video that I just found: http://ogiroux.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/your-d700-shoots-video-too/
I'm going to give it a try with my d300 as soon as the weather clears (so maybe next year or something?)...
I dont know of any but i would think that the process would be the same as recording video with a canon. Im sure it would work. 
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
|
ccs_hello
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 3298
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Samir,
Just like to mention that in those quick modes (faster frame rate), i.e., in Liveview, camera video out, and even in movie mode, these is the subsampling* in DSLR body. Basically, there is insufficient time to read all pixels in the sensor.
So in the pixel size calculation, treat mid-point virtual boundary line in other unused/unread pixels as part of the "jumbo pixel". Naturally, such jumbo pixel is super inefficient, only the central region is used .
For now, ignore the following, non-fixed-sized font kills the character art illustration.
(Cut-n-paste into NOTEPAD program to see it.)
-------------------------
rgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
RGrg|rgRGrg|rgRGrg|rgRGrg
GBgb|gbGBgb|gbGBgb|gbGBgb
rgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
-------------------------
rgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
RGrg|rgRGrg|rgRGrg|rgRGrg
GBgb|gbGBgb|gbGBgb|gbGBgb
rgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
-------------------------
rgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
RGrg|rgRGrg|rgRGrg|rgRGrg
GBgb|gbGBgb|gbGBgb|gbGBgb
rgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
RG
GB are active pixels
rg
gb are unused pixels
(try again)
---------------------------
rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
---------------------------
rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
---------------------------
rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg|rgrgrg
gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb|gbgbgb
The above example shows for every 36 pixel (jumbo pixel) region, only 4 pixels in the center are active.
P.S. I only show simple case, some designs have limited one axis like-color off-sensor pixels summing.
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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ccs_hello
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 3298
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Sal,
Glad to see data compression did not hurt image quality too much.
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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ccs_hello
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 3298
|
|
Quote:
Has anyone tried doing this with a Nikon? There is a similar app for the D3/D300/D700 that captures liveview video that I just found: http://ogiroux.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/your-d700-shoots-video-too/
I'm going to give it a try with my d300 as soon as the weather clears (so maybe next year or something?)...
That's an interesting suggestion.
Don't know if "star eater" algorithm would be kicked in during Liveview situation or not...
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
|
Samir Kharusi
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/14/05
Posts: 983
Loc: Oman
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Perhaps you could put that in simpler English? My mother tongue is Swahili  What are you trying to say? Use a larger effective pixel size? How large? That very likely applies when you shoot in one of the HD Video modes in which many suspect is a simple non-Read of in-between pixels, so that the line count ends up at 1080 (or 720). But in LiveView mode it does look like each pixel does get read, especially at the 5x magnification that ImagesPlus uses to record. The frames per second does seem a lot slower than 30fps though. Perhaps that's how the camera copes? Or do your comments apply to LiveView without the 5x (or 10x) magnification?
--------------------
Bored? Peruse my website:
http://www.samirkharusi.net/
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ccs_hello
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 3298
|
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Samir,
Liveview during 5x and 10x magnification is ROI (Region of interest) selected readout. So in a properly designed DSLR Liveview, there is little or no subsampling taken place.
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2921
Loc: Ny
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Quote:
Samir,
Liveview during 5x and 10x magnification is ROI (Region of interest) selected readout. So in a properly designed DSLR Liveview, there is little or no subsampling taken place.
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
Good to know. thank you
--------------------
-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
|
ccs_hello
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 3298
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|
Just a note/info from the SourceForge EOS Movrec
resolution:
450D - 848x560,
40D, 50D - 1024x680,
1000D - 768x512
compression algorithm: M-JPEG encapsulated in AVI
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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