Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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I know what your saying but I need some fresh eyes to help me decide here , I think ive been hacking away at this data for to many hours and I cant see right anymore.
I tried to go as deep as I could and then saved it , when I looked at my histogram I still needed to reset my black point one final time.
The second one is with the final black set but I kind of like the stuff that shows so I need some opinions , dont be shy I can take some constructive critizism.
At some point this season I will get some Ha data for this and probably do a complete reprocess :P
I went as deep as I could with this until I go somewhere darker and maybe shoot some 15min subs , the second version is with black points reset.
I did some new processing tricks on this one and tried a Luminosity layer and used a LAB color layer.
50 4sec , 30 15sec , 30 1min , and 22 8min subs ISO 800 stacked in DSS then adjusted in PS CS2. Canon 400D(modded) , Orion Atlas mount and the scope is a Orion ED80 refractor and with the 8" SCT as a guide scope.
With black point set
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Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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jmX
super member
Reged: 04/23/09
Posts: 170
Loc: Orange County, CA
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First, the core looks way too de-contrasted. The center of Orion is BRIGHT, so why try to hide that fact in your shot? Let it "blow out" at least a little...thats how it should look. Right now bulk of the m42 complex looks very unnatural, kinda like bad HDR photos, and its mostly down to you trying to not blow out that core. If you took a photo of a nice beach sunset, you wouldnt expect to see sunspots on the sun would ya? No. 
Second, on the extra wispy bits, what I did was have a black level somewhere between the 2 settings you show above. I also increased the contrast (ie, curves) just a bit more on the wispy clouds and nothing else, and then due to the extra noise this induced I make sure that I desaturated the clouds (but not the stars).
Anyway, good to see people getting the wispy bits of M42 in their shot. Most M42 photos seem to miss out on the bulk of the nebula. Good job.
I've attached my tweaks on the tiny jpg you posted.
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Jon
C6N + CG5
Skywatcher Equinox 80 + CGEM
http://jmx.ls1howto.com
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bardo
member
Reged: 09/13/09
Posts: 54
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not that i hold anyway weight at all here but asthetically i agree. in being in an anti-clipping mindset taking away all brightness where its supposed to be makes it look less than optimal.
great shot though!
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Igor
super member
Reged: 04/20/06
Posts: 126
Loc: Croatia
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No comment here just ...  and 
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GSO 250/f5 dob
Skywatcher Explorer 130p @ EQ3
Baader modified 350D and bunch of old M42 lenses
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bebert
sage
Reged: 07/21/08
Posts: 247
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Nice image Erik. I really like the faint stuff in the outlying areas of this nebula complex. My opinion is that as long as the fundamentals are there (tracking, etc.) the rest comes down to aesthetic concerns. Have you tried stacking the final version in PS using layer masks? That method might allow you finer control in tweaking the brighter areas.
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Celestron C8
Orion 80 ED
Vixen 70s for guiding
CG5-ASGT
SSAG
PHD Guiding
Canon 300D(a)
Celestron 0.63 focal reducer
WO 0.8x FF/FR version II
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Jerry Lodriguss
Vendor
Reged: 07/19/08
Posts: 576
Loc: Voorhees, NJ
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Hi Erik,
You have a great picture there!
I think you might be able to improve it even more by utilizing the full dynamic range available.
Right now, the core of the brightest star is not white at 255,255,255.
You normally want to hold color in the fainter stars in the image, but the brightest star should have a white core. The colors in the brightest stars would be represented by the pixels around the periphery of the core.
If you set the core of the brightest star to white, it will give you more contrast in the image and you won't blow out the core of the Trapezium.
Jerry
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A Beginner's Guide to DSLR Astrophotography
http://www.astropix.com
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Thanks for the comments Jon , bardo , Igor , bebert , Jerry
Jon - I know what you mean , I watch the HDR groups over on Flickr and I see that a lot in peoples shots. I actually had it processed more blended to the core but it looked weird so I did blow it out more then I had it because I agree that it does need some bright in the middle or the edges show a light but it doesnt look right without it coming from somewhere. I really like what you did to the shot , Ill have to try what you said.
bebert - I used many layer masks to get what I have , I basically made 2 processed versions of each set of subs and then layer masked them together using some of Jerrys methods and some reveal masks using the nebula itself.
Jerry - How would I do that exactly , is there a method listed on one of your web site pages or is it something simple I just didnt do.
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Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2924
Loc: Ny
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Pretty Nice Erik!
I think there might be a little more detail lurking in the image. if you wanna post a raw file im sure some of us would like to take a crack at it
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-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Thanks Sal
Ill happily post the data but its several stacks and I already pushed pretty hard without noise showing up.
I always like to see what people do different , especially if they share what they did.
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Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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Jerry Lodriguss
Vendor
Reged: 07/19/08
Posts: 576
Loc: Voorhees, NJ
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Hi Eric,
Just adjust the white points in Photoshop while monitoring the info palette.
Jerry
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A Beginner's Guide to DSLR Astrophotography
http://www.astropix.com
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Psyire
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 06/24/07
Posts: 980
Loc: 55* North
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Erik, that's a great capture of M42 ! You did a really good job of getting a great dynamic range, imo. Hope you don't mind but I took a stab a tweaking it just a bit.
I set the white point as Jerry suggested, with the white eye dropper in the levels adjustment. I also did a bit of an S-curve on just the red channel and increased the saturation some more in LAB mode.
Here's the before/after:
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Celestron CPC 1100 XLT, Sky-Watcher Equinox 80ED
TV 31T5-Nagler, 8&13mm-Ethos
EarthWin Binoviewers w/ 24mm Panoptics
Elusive Photons.com
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nickatnight
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/14/08
Posts: 1751
Loc: Santa Clarita, CA (LA Suburbs)
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Super image Erik. I like the tweaks Jon added...and hope to see some other versions. The data looks amazingly deep.
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nickatnight
Celestron CPC 9.25" GPS
Lumicon 2" LumiBrite Diagonal
Meade s5000 18mm UWA, Meade 6.7mm UWA,
Parks G.S-5 10mm, Celestrom 40mm Plossl
Parks 2x Barlow, Meade Tele-Extender
Celestron f6.3 Focal Reducer
Lumicon UHC Filter and Deep Sky Filter
Canon Rebel XTi (prime)
Canon Powershot G9 (afocal)
Canon EOS T-Ring and Parks T-Adapter
Lumicon Univ DigiCam Adapter
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Thanks Jerry , Psyire , Nick
Psyire - I dont mind at all and I like what you did there Psyire it really makes the dust stand out.
I am uploading the files to Mediafire now so you guys can go crazy with it.
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Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2924
Loc: Ny
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Quote:
Thanks Jerry , Psyire , Nick
Psyire - I dont mind at all and I like what you did there Psyire it really makes the dust stand out.
I am uploading the files to Mediafire now so you guys can go crazy with it.
Yay! I cant wait. haha its been a while since ive taken an image of my own. my only fun comes from processing other peoples images  
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-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
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waassaabee
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 11/26/07
Posts: 2710
Loc: Central California Coast
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It looks like you have a ton of data to deal with!! And excellent capture I might add. Have you experimented with HDR on these stacks? Jerry's tip looks to be an interesting path to travel as well, and I can only presume you layer masked your image...? Very complex target and a lot of potential.
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Gary
34N 120W
-My kingdom for blue squares!-
WO Megrez 90FD/TV 0.8x FR/FF
AT8RC
mini Borg 50/Q-Guide/PHD
CGEM
Canon 350D Hap Griffin Baader mod - o.o
My Friend Flickr
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Thanks Gary
I have had some success in the past with the merge to HDR feature in PS CS2 but for some reason it did not work on this shot , I did do a lot of layer masking.
I might throw the stacks into Photomatix just to see what comes out.
Here is the stacks for those that want to give it a run.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3fd88085f834d31fab1eab3e9fa335ca6d94a3970d5bfbb9
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Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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bebert
sage
Reged: 07/21/08
Posts: 247
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I tried my image of this area in Photomatix and was not pleased with the result. Perhaps you'll have better luck.
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Celestron C8
Orion 80 ED
Vixen 70s for guiding
CG5-ASGT
SSAG
PHD Guiding
Canon 300D(a)
Celestron 0.63 focal reducer
WO 0.8x FF/FR version II
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2924
Loc: Ny
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heres what i was able to get
how did it come out 
Jpg compression hurt it a little and the corners are clipped. i have to go back and fix that.
Erik,
I saved a full size version as well if you want to take a look full size.
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-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
Edited by SGT500 (11/03/09 01:06 PM)
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2924
Loc: Ny
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Post deleted by SGT500
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-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Well that deffinatly has a lot more color and the colored part extends farther into the dust , you got the core to stay a little more tamed then I did too.
Some of the outer dust detail kinda got lost but I think the trade off is worth it.
Any chance I could get a workflow
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Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2924
Loc: Ny
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Sure Erik,
Im not the greatest at telling my processing workflow but ill do my best
First i opened up the 8 minute stack.
I duplicated the first layer and started stretching the second. i didnt worry about blowing out the core too much because i had 2 8 minute stack layers. so after levels, curves and one shadows and highlights pass, i layered the original and the stretched layers together.
Then i did the same for the 1 minute stack. a series of levels and curves then i did layer masks on the 1 minute stack to get the full dynamic range of that stacked image. I then pasted this layer on top of the 8 minute later, to be processed after i finished with the 15 second stack.
I did the same process for the 15 second stack as the 1 minute stack.
After i got the 3 images stacked on top of eachother i tried to layer them all together. It took about 10 layer masks to get it right. if the image looked too dark after i applied a layer mask i would curve the image to brighten it up.
Then after i got done with the layer masks i gave it some extra contrast and applied a high pass filter to try and bring some extra dust out.
I finished it off with a bit of noise reduction. and thats really all i did. I hope i didn't make that extremely confusing to read. haha i ramble a little when i talk about processing.
Here is my version blended with your version. it brought some more contrast to the dust.
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-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Thanks for the workflow , I always find it helpful.
That version blended with your nebula with my background looks great.
I did have to do dual processing for each stack too and lots of layers masks too.
How did you blend the layer masks , I had to use a combination of Jerry Lodriguss techniques and a mask of the nebula itself but lightened and darkened to the extreme.
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Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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Star surfer8
super member
Reged: 05/15/06
Posts: 494
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Erik,
Had an hour to kill at work so I gave it a quick run through. I was trying for the natural look but it might of turned out a little plain. Hope it helps in some way. Also, you have some good data there and thanks for posting it.
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Tom
Edited by Star surfer8 (11/03/09 06:30 PM)
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Looks pretty good Tom , I had a hard time keeping the red out of the background when I processed too but it does seem to show the most detail in that area between M42 and the Running Man.
Thanks for the comment and for messing with my data.
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Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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ido
sage
Reged: 06/29/06
Posts: 368
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Well done!
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http://bareket-astro.com/en.htm
Bareket observatory, Israel.
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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Thanks ido for the encouragment
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Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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Nils_Lars
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 3457
Loc: Santa Cruz Mountains , CA
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So I have taken everyones advice and made a few adjustments , I boosted the color in LAB and increased the contrast a bit and reset the white point and the black point again.
I still couldnt bring myself to go red in the clouds even though it shows more detail I like the smokey look.
Did I go to far with it?
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Erik
Orion Atlas Self Hypertuned (EQMOD)
Orion ED 80
Williams Optics VII reducer
Celestron 8" SCT
Orion Starshoot Autoguider
PHD guide
Canon 400D Hap Griffin Mod w/Baader filter
Astronomik clip-in LP filter and 12nm Ha
Stilleto CVF and Bahtinov mask
Tamron 75-300mm&28-80mm lenses
NexImage webcam
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31986095@N05/
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SGT500
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 10/03/06
Posts: 2924
Loc: Ny
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Nope i dont think you went too far,
looks nice. Great job on this one
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-Sal
AstroTech Ritchey Chretien 8"
Williams Optics Zenithstar 80
Orion Atlas Eq-G
Hap Griffin Modified Canon Eos Xs (1000D)
My Astrophotography Gallery
My Sketch Gallery
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