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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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guyroch
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SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits?
      #5590308 - 12/26/12 09:10 PM

Not sure if this is the right place to post but I've been hanging around here for a while now so here it goes.

I'm have some problems installing the Orion 64 bits on Windows 8. I just won't recognize it. I'm using the same 64 bits drivers I had installed on Windows 7 several times before.

Anyone else not being able to install the SSAG drivers on W8?

Thank you,

Guylain


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shrevestan
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5590327 - 12/26/12 09:24 PM

No idea. I've got it working on mine. I did an upgrade on top of my Win7 though if that makes a difference.

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mmalik
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5590382 - 12/26/12 10:01 PM

Read this... thread if it helps. I ran into similar situation with 3MP SSAG. I got it to recognize (details in the other thread) but never got it working with PHD and ended up returning it. Long story short, I tried Lodestar, wasn't happy with it either. Finally settled on SBIG ST-i; works great with PHD.

Note: 1.3MP SSAG (the regular one everyone uses) should work fine on all platforms.

Lodestar thread here.... Thx

Edited by mmalik (12/26/12 10:13 PM)


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: mmalik]
      #5590619 - 12/27/12 12:56 AM

Thanks for the links. I have everything running except for the SSAG and SX Filter Wheel.

The Loadstar, Atik 460EXM, and SBIG 8300 works just fine.

Guylain


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waassaabee
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5591263 - 12/27/12 02:16 PM

Have you tried uninstalling the device, drivers and all registry references, then doing a fresh (admin) install?
I had probs with an older QGuide, and that was the only way I could fix it.


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: waassaabee]
      #5592365 - 12/28/12 09:56 AM

I tried uninstalling and re-installing the drivers to no avail.

I made a full disk image on my W7 before I wiped it out to install W8 a few weeks ago.

Last night I made an image of my W8, then recovered my W7 image, extracted all drivers using DoubleDriver. Then recovered my W8 image and did a restore for the SSAG drivers on W8. All drivers were successfully recovered but the SSAG still won't connect. Windows keeps giving a device did not install properly each time I plug it in

The SSAG and the SX Filter Wheel are the only 2 devices not working for me. I'm now contemplating using Hyper-V with W7 (or XP even) on my W8 laptop for my astro stuff

The other alternative for the FW is to purchase the ATIK unit (to pair with my 460EXM) and forgo the SX Filter Wheel. But this won't fix my SSAG issue

I only use the SSAG when I go offsite, grab and go. I can somewhat live without the SSAG given I mainly use the Lodestar at home but I can't use my 460EXM efficiently without a filter wheel.

Drivers, drivers...

Guylain


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waassaabee
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5592423 - 12/28/12 10:42 AM

Guylain, I feel your pain! Getting some of the astro gear connected can be a real headache, then getting it all playing together nicely can be troublesome too. You said you uninstalled and reinstalled the drivers, but did you insure the registry entries were removed? I found that running CCleaner after uninstalling revealed the registry entries were still there. After 'Fixing' those entries and doing a clean install is where I had my best luck.
Has SX been able to provide any input for getting the FW to work?


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: waassaabee]
      #5592472 - 12/28/12 11:08 AM

Quote:

Guylain, I feel your pain! Getting some of the astro gear connected can be a real headache, then getting it all playing together nicely can be troublesome too. You said you uninstalled and reinstalled the drivers, but did you insure the registry entries were removed? I found that running CCleaner after uninstalling revealed the registry entries were still there. After 'Fixing' those entries and doing a clean install is where I had my best luck.
Has SX been able to provide any input for getting the FW to work?




Thanks Gary,

I did not clean the registry. Will try that this weekend.

Regards,

Guylain


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SKYGZR
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5593096 - 12/28/12 06:34 PM

Why not just ditch W8? For all my asto related stuff I'm still using XP, little or no hassles.

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waassaabee
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: SKYGZR]
      #5593342 - 12/28/12 09:00 PM

Quote:

Why not just ditch W8? For all my asto related stuff I'm still using XP, little or no hassles.




I have stuck to this mantra for years until a few weeks ago when I came by a newer 17" Win7 laptop by default. I now believe that Win7 is the new XP. Win8... the vote is still out. But 7 is fine in my book.


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: waassaabee]
      #5593622 - 12/29/12 12:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Why not just ditch W8? For all my asto related stuff I'm still using XP, little or no hassles.




I have stuck to this mantra for years until a few weeks ago when I came by a newer 17" Win7 laptop by default. I now believe that Win7 is the new XP. Win8... the vote is still out. But 7 is fine in my book.




My astro laptop is an ASUS G75V quad core with 16GB ram... it can take W8 and a few VMs running W7 and/or XP. I'm not a big fan of running a VM but I may have no choice

I hope I'll have better luck over the weekend trying to make the SSAG and SX Filter Wheel working on W8.

Thanks for all the input.

Guylain


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mmalik
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5593810 - 12/29/12 05:14 AM

Quote:

I hope I'll have better luck over the weekend trying to make the SSAG and SX Filter Wheel working on W8.




For a POC (proof of concept) and establishing a baseline, I would suggest first trying on a “clean” install of Windows 7 (NOT a VM) unless you have tried it already. Once you have a working model on Windows 7, going onto Windows 8 and trying the same setup/drivers would be advisable.

One option would be if you can dedicate a Windows 7 PC as a sandbox that you could re-image at will (assuming you would have a clean image ready to go) for each new test; if all goes well then repeating the same setup in Windows 8.

If separate PC is not an option, dual booting into Windows 7 and 8 will be even better option. Even with dual/multi boot systems, Windows imaging comes in handy; Windows can image all partitions and/or dual/multi boot systems. I employ re-imaging approach for everything, not just drivers/devices. I can provide you more details if you like.

In short what imaging buys you is a way to revert back to your last-known-good setup without having to worry about cleaning registry and other areas on a failed attempt. You seem to be well versed in OS imaging, exploit imaging to test first in Windows 7, get it working in Windows 7, and then go on to Windows 8 on a dual boot system; on a failed attempt start all over again without worrying about the cleanup. Fall back image/s don’t have to be just the OSs, it/they can be a composite of all known-good/’successfully tested’ apps/devices. Thx


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: mmalik]
      #5596845 - 12/30/12 07:56 PM

Well… a weekend nightmare for me

The SSAG and SX Filter Wheel will simply not work on my ASUS G75V Laptop with W8. The funny thing is that it all works on my W8 desktop… but not my laptop which I use for imaging


1) I did a fresh install of W8, not an upgrade, a full fresh install.
2) Installed the SSAG 64 bit drivers and device shows as unknown device.
3) Plugged the SX FW and it comes up as HID unknown device too.
4) Did a full image of that fresh W8 disk just in case
5) Installed a fresh W7 Ultimate, not an upgrade, a full fresh install.
6) Installed the SSAG 64 bit drivers and device is immediately found and it works A+
7) Plugged the SX FW and it works just fine… but not always. It works 9/10 the first it is connected after a reboot. If I disconnect it and reconnect it will work 5/10 times. Do this a third time and the chances of it reconnection are 1/10. Once the SX FW does not connect at least one time I MUST REBOOT otherwise it will NEVER reconnect. Once I reboot the cycle starts over and I have a 9/10 chance it will connect the first time.
8) Did a full image of that fresh W7 disk.
9) Exported the working W7 drivers using Double Drivers.
10) Restored the W8 image from above.
11) Restored the working W7 drivers obtained with Double Drivers.
12) Connected the SSAG on W8 with the DD drivers exported from W7. Still does not work.
13) Connected the SX FW on W8 with the DD drivers exported from W7. Still does not work.
14) Did a fresh install of W8 32 bits to see if it would work in 32 bits versus 63 bits. Still no luck.
15) Restored the W8 image and installed Virtual Box with W7. W7 inside the VM did not work… felt a bit stupid here because the host OS was W8 and the VM OS was W7. Of course this would never work because the host OS needs to recognize the device in order to pass control to the VM OS.
16) Restored W7 and re-installed ALL of my applications… 14 hours later I almost have a full functional W7 laptop again with all MS update.


EXTREMLY BUMMED OUT that I was not able to keep W8 on my laptop. One of the main reason I wanted W8 is because my eyes are not what they used to be when I was 20. I really liked the ability to keep the maximum resolution in W8 and still individually increase the font size of menus, titles, etc. For me this flexibility is worth a lot, I feel my eyes are not as tired after a long day in front of the PC.

My future plans… the SX FW has got to go. In W8 it does not work and in W7 it is flaky at best; though it does connect 9/10 times on W7 after a reboot this is simply not acceptable to me. I will be placing an order for the ATIK EFW2 this week. As for the SSAG I only use it in the summer time as my grab and go guide cam. I will also be replacing the SSAG with either another Lodestar or the SBIG guide cam. W8 will only come back on my trusty ASUS G75V laptop once I have replaced these 2 devices. This means I have to use a lower resolution (text a bit fuzzier but bigger fonts) or use an on-screen magnifying glass

Thank you for all your help,

Guylain


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mmalik
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5596967 - 12/30/12 09:41 PM

First and foremost, I would be happy with Windows 7 if all works well. Windows 7 is a great platform for ‘production’ work. With that said, while you have a working platform in Win 7, keep working on Win 8 troubleshooting.

Here are some suggestions regarding testing on Windows 8:
• Don’t use Double Drivers; instead see if you can locate where the drivers are located after the install or where they get expanded. Try updating the drives manually in Win 8 by right-clicking on the ‘unknown device’ and pointing to the folder where the drivers are located or where they get expanded.

• In case you can’t find the correct location of drivers in Win 8, try copying the installed/expanded drivers from Win 7 (that’s if you know where they are located or get expanded in Win 7) and then repeating the manual ‘unknown device’ discovery process in Win 8. I am quite sure drivers will work in Win 8 if you point the ‘unknown device’ to the correct location of the drivers.

• If you are using USB 3.0 hardware ports, try connecting the device/s to the USB 2.0 port if one is available on your laptop. I have seen some devices/apps will not work on USB 3.0 ports, e.g., PHD is one example in my case.

For setting up your test platform on Win 8, here are my thoughts:
• Clean install of Win 7. When doing clean install, don’t dedicate entire hard drive to Win 7; leave some space for other partitions to be used by Win 8 (described below).

• Install/configure all your apps/devices in pristine condition in Win 7, including all the MS updates.

• Install Win 8 'OS ONLY' on the next available partition.

• DO NOT install any drivers/apps in Win 8 yet; create a pristine image of dual boot of Win7 and Win 8 at this time; remember to include the partition that Win 8 resides on in the image.

• At this point you would have a fully functional/configured Win 7 and just base OS Win 8.

• Now you are all set to try testing new drivers/devices in Win 8. Any time you have an issue, just re-image and you’ll be back to a fully functional Win 7 and clean Win 8 base (OS) for another round of testing.

Hope this helps. Dual/multi boot setup of my system here.... Thx


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SKYGZR
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: mmalik]
      #5597294 - 12/31/12 01:51 AM

I still believe that XP32 is possibly the best OS for Astro use (Capture/Control/Mount Connect, etc...) I am using W7-64 Home, Quad Core, 7GB Ram on the main "in house" image processing 'puter, and it is a better platform for that environment. I have "all the guts" to build a 6 Core W7-64 Prof, yet have not yet.

My laptops for the field (w/exception of (1) older unit w/ W2K), and the dedicated Obsv 'puter all run XP32, and they're pretty much problem free.

I like W7, yet not for Asto related, and in no "hurry" to complicate things going to W8.


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: SKYGZR]
      #5600263 - 01/01/13 08:19 PM

I just came back indoors after a very frustrating night. First clear night in about 2 months and my SX filter wheel was not cooperating in W7.

The wheel would connect and went through it's initialization sequence by making a full cycle. It usually stops at the 1st filter position once it's done... but this time it would never stop turning. I just sent an email to Starlight hoping I'll get a response.

In the meantime however I have not wasted any time, I have just places an order for the Atik EFW2 from OptCorp.

I'm still hoping that Starlight eXpress will do something given it's only 7 months old and still under warranty.

Guylain


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5662621 - 02/04/13 10:25 PM

I finally got the SX Fitler Whell back from Terry in the UK. He has updated the PCB board firmware and now the FW works fine on both W7 and W8. WooHoo.

Now to the SSAG... it still won't connect. Windows 8 simply does not recognize the SSAG.

Anybody else with this issue?

Guylain


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zerro1
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5662763 - 02/05/13 12:36 AM

Maybe try viewing the VID/PID of the "unknown device" to see if Win 8 is getting the correct info?

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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: zerro1]
      #5662805 - 02/05/13 01:15 AM

VID and PID are not properly identified. The following is from the unknown device driver.

Device USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1 had a problem starting.


The one in the ssag.inf is VID_1856&PID_0011 & VID_1856&PID_0012


Thank you for your help,

Guylain


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bluedandelion
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5662829 - 02/05/13 01:50 AM

The QHY forum could be of help. The proprietor and chief designer of is very friendly and responsive guy. The SSAG is a partially disabled QHY5 as you might know.

Ajay


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: bluedandelion]
      #5662837 - 02/05/13 02:02 AM

Quote:

The QHY forum could be of help. The proprietor and chief designer of is very friendly and responsive guy. The SSAG is a partially disabled QHY5 as you might know.

Ajay




This is a great recommendation I did not think about. I'll check it out.

Guylain


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zerro1
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5662849 - 02/05/13 02:20 AM

I just edited my SSAG.inf file and inserted an additional instance in the driver file instruction with the VID/PID that was being reported by the camera. ( I know, it's cheating but it worked) the QHY stuff is helpful from an informational point but unless you plan on converting it to a QHY5, using their files can be problematic with an SSAG

To do it you have to go to Device manager, under properties for the "unknown device" and look at the actual ID number. The error report might include some characters that are not actually part of the number.

Here is an example of what I did in the file. You can see the Base and IO lines I added under NTx86. You would need to include them(with your VID/PID) under the "AMD64bit" section

[ORION.NTx86]

"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0011
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0012
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\Vid_04b4&Pid_8613&Rev_:001
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\Vid_04b4&Pid_8613


[ORION.NTamd64]
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0011
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0012

______________________________________________

You have to do it for both the base and the IO

Edited by zerro1 (02/05/13 02:42 AM)


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bluedandelion
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: zerro1]
      #5664009 - 02/05/13 05:29 PM

Apparently QHY5 users have also had this problem. See the following thread:
http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5639480/page...


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: bluedandelion]
      #5664315 - 02/05/13 09:00 PM

This is what get from Windows when the SSAG is initially connected

Device USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1 was configured.


So I edited the ssag.inf with the the following and still no luck.

[ORION.NTx86]
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0011
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\VID_1856&PID_0012

[ORION.NTamd64]
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1


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zerro1
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5664421 - 02/05/13 10:16 PM

Did you get the PID/VID from device manager or from the error message? also; I didn't replace anything in the INF file, I just added to the list.

"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (Base)"=BASE_Install,USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1
"Orion StarShoot Autoguider Driver (IO)"=USB_Install,USB\VID_0000&PID_0002\5&87d8f66&0&1

I would try leaving the characters that I highlighted in red out of the file. I suspect that it "may" be something windows is throwing in there. If you notice in all other instances, the instruction ends with the PID number and there is no "\" beyond it.

mine had the &Rev_:001 on the base instruction but it was not \ and it was a little different situation.

worth a try?
If all else fails...
You could try contacting Orion to see if they have a Win8 driver update in the pipeline.

My SSAG pretty much is just a backup if one of my Meade DSI's fails on me. They are more sensitive and can be had for around $100 to $120 on the used market. Course they don't have a guide port. and they may not work on Win8 either.

Edited by zerro1 (02/05/13 10:29 PM)


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JGTillery
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: zerro1]
      #5769351 - 03/31/13 05:49 PM

Orion still doesn't know what the problem is, but they say they are "investigating". My SSAG runs perfectly on Vista and OSX but not under Windows 8, USB 3.0. The driver apparently goes in the wrong place and/or the USB device never gets recognized.

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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: JGTillery]
      #5769810 - 03/31/13 10:23 PM

Upgraded my netbook to an ultrabook recently, unfortunately they now come with Win8 installed.
I'm in the same boat as the users above, no joy from Orion customer support either.
They seem to be discontinuing their astro-cam line, hope they still will be able to support their existing customer base.


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: CA Stargazer]
      #5769825 - 03/31/13 10:33 PM

Quote:

Upgraded my netbook to an ultrabook recently, unfortunately they now come with Win8 installed.
I'm in the same boat as the users above, no joy from Orion customer support either.
They seem to be discontinuing their astro-cam line, hope they still will be able to support their existing customer base.




I gave up on the SSAG all together. I bought a QHY5L-II to replace it.

Guylain


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JGTillery
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: CA Stargazer]
      #5771962 - 04/01/13 11:32 PM

Brand new Acer Aspire M i5 touchscreen Ultrabook , USB 3 only, Win 8. Absolutely no joy with the SSAG. Vista laptop died today, too, so I have no guiding capability unless Orion fixes their drivers. It runs great on OSX and Vista. There are reports of identical symptoms and problems with the SSAG on XP and even Vista and Windows 7 since at least 2009. Apparently driver fixes worked for most people. Wish I had read about the issues six weeks ago and looked at other options.

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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: JGTillery]
      #5772001 - 04/02/13 12:06 AM

well, sorry I couldn't read it early. I have a Win8 on 64bit running my SSAG. Is true the driver wont install at first.

Theres only one procedure and work for all drivers that wont install easy.

goto settings---> change PC settings--->General---> Advance startup---> restart--->Troubleshoot---->Advance options---> Startup Settings--->Restart--->choose option (7) Disable driver signature enforcement, then install the driver It should be installed. If nothing change then I suggest changing to tripp-lite usb cable. 100% work


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: JoseBorrero]
      #5772025 - 04/02/13 12:26 AM

Quote:

well, sorry I couldn't read it early. I have a Win8 on 64bit running my SSAG. Is true the driver wont install at first.

Theres only one procedure and work for all drivers that wont install easy.

goto settings---> change PC settings--->General---> Advance startup---> restart--->Troubleshoot---->Advance options---> Startup Settings--->Restart--->choose option (7) Disable driver signature enforcement, then install the driver It should be installed. If nothing change then I suggest changing to tripp-lite usb cable. 100% work




Thanks Jose... been there done that several times. Still no luck.

My SSAG is a boat anchor now.

Guylain


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bilgebay
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5772214 - 04/02/13 06:42 AM

Hi Guylain,

A friend of mine have installed QHY5 drivers and he is reporting that camera work just fine with Windows 8 now.

QHY download page

Cheers


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JoseBorrero
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: bilgebay]
      #5773267 - 04/02/13 04:23 PM

I want to add that after the drivers were installed it was only working directly to the laptop USB port and not thru my usb multi-hub. just changing the usb cable for a tripp- lite resolved the second part.

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davebuechler
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: JoseBorrero]
      #5830806 - 04/29/13 05:55 PM

Hey guys. Has this issue been resolved? I just bought a new PC. 3.0 USB's only and Win 8. Am I screwed???

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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5830843 - 04/29/13 06:11 PM

Quote:

Hey guys. Has this issue been resolved? I just bought a new PC. 3.0 USB's only and Win 8. Am I screwed???




It ain't working for me still. I have completly given up using the SSAG on w8.

Guylain


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davebuechler
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5830853 - 04/29/13 06:16 PM

Thanks Guy

BYE runs fine by the way and I really like the trial version I am testing.

*BLEEP*. Is in Win 8 or the 3.0USB port?

The reason I ask is I just bought a new PC laptop and it is installed with Win 8 and has only 3.0 USB ports. If it is a 2.0 vs 3.0 USB port issue I can return for a machine that has a 2.0 port. If it is a Win 8 problem things might be more complicated


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RedLionNJ
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5830949 - 04/29/13 07:23 PM

I had to do something similar to Zerro1 for my SSAG. It was running just fine for months, then 'something' happened to cause my USB devices to enumerate differently. I had to track down the device IDs being detected by Windows and concoct an INF file for my SSAG such that the device IDs matched those Windows was reporting. Fixed the issue just like that....

Grant


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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: RedLionNJ]
      #5830990 - 04/29/13 07:58 PM

According to my last response from Orion, my problem was due to my new fancy pants Ultrabook having USB3.0.
Since the product still works on my older netbook with Windows 7/USB 2.0, it's not really a problem with the camera.
That was the last of it, I don't think they are working on a fix for Win8/USB3.0.


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fmhill
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: CA Stargazer]
      #5831021 - 04/29/13 08:14 PM

Quote:

According to my last response from Orion, my problem was due to my new fancy pants Ultrabook having USB3.0.
Since the product still works on my older netbook with Windows 7/USB 2.0, it's not really a problem with the camera.
That was the last of it, I don't think they are working on a fix for Win8/USB3.0.




Orion is feeding you Hogwash!!!

I have a Dell XPS8300 with USB3.0 ports and the SSAG works fine with PHD when plugged into USB3.0...

As I understand USB3.0, its downward compatible with USB2.0 and USB1.1 devices...

However my computers are all Windows 7 Pro 64 bit machines, not Windows 8... I do not think that makes any difference in the operation of USB protocols tho...


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davebuechler
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5831142 - 04/29/13 09:21 PM

Well then I would have to say it is a WIN 8 issue not the 3.0 vs 2.0 USB port issue. Hummm now what to do.

I guess get rid of the SSAG and buy another guide camera that runs on WIN 8 platform. Thanks Orion!!!


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JoseBorrero
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5831162 - 04/29/13 09:36 PM

I run my SSAG with windows 8 64bit. I posted a follow up procedure to install the driver.

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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: JoseBorrero]
      #5831189 - 04/29/13 09:57 PM

I'm using a work horse, the ASUS G75VW. It has 4 x 3.0 usb ports.

Guylain


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zjc26138
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5831192 - 04/29/13 09:59 PM

So is the problem fixed with using Windows 8 and the SSAG? Or if its not fixed, is it an easy fix to do?

Reason I ask is that I'm buying a new computer soon and I'm trying to decide between Windows 7 and Windows 8.


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fmhill
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5831239 - 04/29/13 10:24 PM

Quote:

Well then I would have to say it is a WIN 8 issue not the 3.0 vs 2.0 USB port issue. Hummm now what to do.

I guess get rid of the SSAG and buy another guide camera that runs on WIN 8 platform. Thanks Orion!!!




If you want my opinion, Orion is simply caught in the middle... They are not the manufacturer, only the "Middleman" selling products they buy from other manufacturing companies...

My guess is to get anywhere with this SSAG Windows 8 problem, someone needs to beat on QHY for a solution, however QHY probably contracts the software development out as all these companies are prone to do...

And I would not be too quick to blame Windows 8, the real problem right now is that there is a lot of developmental software upgrading going on and software developers are having to deal with changes in the libraries used to compile and make the executable files... Its a vicious circle and its not just Windows 8, I'm going through the same thing with Windows 7 Pro, a SBIG camera, and PHD guiding software...

Fortunately the software developer involved, I suspect a 3rd party contractor, is working on the problem and will find the fix I am confident... As the same problem exists in Windows 8 for this same camera and software as in Windows 7, once the fix is found,it will probably make fixing the camera connect issue in Windows 8 much easier to find...

Its very hard to pin the blame on one company or software, its a wide spread problem and will be worked out, it just a matter of time.

As to selling your SSAG and buying another camera, you may be simply be swapping one bucket of worms for a bucket of worms of a different breed/brand... If you are bent on doing this, investigate very carefully that what you are buying will work with the software/Mount system with the operating system on the computer that you use for imaging and mount control before spending your money...

Personally, I'd beat on who ever sold you the computer to get it downgraded to Windows 7 64 bit as Win 7 64 bit has a solid reputation with astroimaging applications...

I think downgrading Windows is the most economical and practical fix at this time. I'm convinced Windows 8 is too new on the market and having teething problems typical of Microsoft's history of releasing versions before they are fully debugged... That's why we live with Microsoft service packs.

What other company do you know of that is so dependent on service packs?...

I wish there was a simple fix and I doubt Orion has any control of it based on my own experiences dealing with Orion.

I wish you luck and clear skies...


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davebuechler
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: JoseBorrero]
      #5831255 - 04/29/13 10:34 PM

Sorry Jose. Followed your directions and still doesn't work

Thanks though and glad yours is working


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davebuechler
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5831280 - 04/29/13 10:47 PM

Thanks Mitch but I dont think Best Buy will downgrade my Windows version. All they sell now is Win 8 on their machines

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davebuechler
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5831294 - 04/29/13 10:56 PM

I wish BYE would run on OSX, then I would return this P.O.U (u know what) Win 8 machine and get another Mac.

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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: zjc26138]
      #5831297 - 04/29/13 10:57 PM

Quote:

So is the problem fixed with using Windows 8 and the SSAG? Or if its not fixed, is it an easy fix to do?

Reason I ask is that I'm buying a new computer soon and I'm trying to decide between Windows 7 and Windows 8.




It is not fixed. My SSAG is a boat anchor now.

Guylain.


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zjc26138
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5831336 - 04/29/13 11:23 PM

Thanks for the info Guylain. Looks like I'll be buying a used windows 7 pc.

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fmhill
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5831425 - 04/30/13 12:39 AM

Dave,
Find a independent computer shop and see if the fellow might have a Windows 7 64 bit software kit or a Used Windows 7 HD out of a computer he has upgraded and can put in your computer... Since computers reached the level of Windows 7, I have not tried this trick myself but many computers can have two different operating systems. The mother board bios has a software selection that when you start the computer, it will ask you to select which system to use... I used this feature for many years on a number of computers to switch between a Unix operating system and a Windows operating system... If you can find a good computer technician, I'm sure he can help you solve the computer problem with what you have...

Edited by fmhill (04/30/13 12:43 AM)


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SKYGZR
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: fmhill]
      #5831467 - 04/30/13 01:20 AM

WIN XP SP3 is still the best for Astro (capture) work!!

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davebuechler
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: SKYGZR]
      #5831864 - 04/30/13 09:47 AM

Well this morning I decided to try it again and low and behold.... The camera is connecting!!!!! YAY!!! Perhaps the fix that Jose suggested worked and I just needed to shut down after making the changes for them to go in effect!

So YES my SSAG IS working with Win 8 on 3.0 hubs


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terry59
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5831885 - 04/30/13 09:54 AM

Quote:

Well this morning I decided to try it again and low and behold.... The camera is connecting!!!!! YAY!!! Perhaps the fix that Jose suggested worked and I just needed to shut down after making the changes for them to go in effect!

So YES my SSAG IS working with Win 8 on 3.0 hubs




Excellent. If it is a repeatable fix it should be on the Orion website


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davebuechler
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: terry59]
      #5831895 - 04/30/13 10:04 AM

I hope it is repeatable for everyone else's sake!!!

Thanks again Jose!!


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guyroch
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5831921 - 04/30/13 10:17 AM

You're lucky, restart did nothing at my end

Again, I tried every trick in the book to no avail.

Guylain


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davebuechler
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #5831954 - 04/30/13 10:40 AM

Heck. I will take lucky any day! I do feel fortunate for sure but disappointed that it might not be a real fix.

Initially I had a hard time to find the settings screen that Jose was referring not being familiar with the Win8 platform. Once I located the proper settings screen I followed the details just as Jose mentioned. I think because I shut down last night and restarted everything worked today.

I know there have been others with the same problem and am curious now how many this will work for and for those it doesn't,, why?

The real test will be tonight and I will do a test of the whole system, but am fairly confident all should work in harmony now the camera is connecting to PHD.


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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5842041 - 05/05/13 05:07 PM Attachment (17 downloads)

Update:
Problem with SSAG not being recognized with Win8/USB3 is resolved.
It involves disabling USB3.0 mode via BIOS setting [F2 key at startup].
This Ultrabook has only 2 USB ports, and both of them are 3.0.
So, for those with an Apire S7 ultrabook,
here is the Bios screen if it may help others.

I am one happy stargazer.

Frank...


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Falcon-
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: CA Stargazer]
      #5842241 - 05/05/13 06:53 PM

Frank: Interesting - that might actually also explain why some USB3 systems work and others do not. Your screenshot would indicate that your USB3 controller is an add-on (not part of the standard compliment of interfaces built into the processor/chipset). I would hazard a guess that those for who it is working have USB3 built in to the chipset rather then an external controller.

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guyroch
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SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? SOLVED SOLVED!!! new [Re: CA Stargazer]
      #5842320 - 05/05/13 07:47 PM

I'll be damn... just when I had 110% lost faith in the SSAG to run on my W8 Asus G75V workhorse laptop, after I bought another guide camera, disabling xHCI did it. The SSAG is now working.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!






Guylain


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Sean13
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5842371 - 05/05/13 08:16 PM

I've been running my SSAG with PHD, backyard EOS, and NexRemote for over 6 months on W8 x64 without a single hickup. All work perfectly fine.

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akulapanam
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: Sean13]
      #5907617 - 06/07/13 09:52 AM

I'm running into a similar issue as described above. I have tried to install it on both an Asus G75 and a Surface Pro both running Windows 8 and both with USB 3.0 support with zero luck.

I have tried:
Jose's fix
disabling xHCI
manually installing the drivers using update driver
moving the files from program files x86 to program files

The interesting thing is the on the Surface Pro the red light comes on. On the G75 it doesn't but at least on the G75 it shows that the SSAG Base as the driver. Whereas on the Surface it shows null. On both devices it is listed as unknown.


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akulapanam
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: akulapanam]
      #5909019 - 06/07/13 11:45 PM

Finally got it working. The key is that once it is installed once the uninstall doesn't removes the files but not the registration from the driver store. The solution is to run pnputil. Also for future people trying to get this to work use these steps in order to get the Starshoot Autoguider to work with Windows 8.

Throw out CD that comes with product
Install PHD from Star Labs site
Disable xHCI
restart computer in disable signed driver enforcement mode
install drivers from Orion website.
Restart computer
Plug Starshoot into one USB port, remember which port you plugged it in

Also really this is an example of a device which has very sloppy programing. It should enforce strict USB standards and it should be properly signed.

Edited by akulapanam (06/07/13 11:47 PM)


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poofer
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: davebuechler]
      #5940471 - 06/25/13 08:58 PM

Where is the fix? Thanks
Pat forster


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akulapanam
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: poofer]
      #5940577 - 06/25/13 10:21 PM

You need follow the steps in my post above. I have it working on two different Windows 8 64 computers.

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linuxkidd
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: akulapanam]
      #5962054 - 07/09/13 11:52 AM

I just chatted with Orion about this issue. I'd rather not have to disable USB3 on my system as I use an external USB3 HDD for storing my captured images / videos.

Cliffs notes version: They're working on a fix... no eta.

Chat transcript below:
You are now chatting with Damian
Damian: Thank you for contacting Orion Telescopes & Binoculars, how may I help you today?
Michael: Hello Damian, I'm curious if there is any planned update to the Orion SSAG drivers to allow them to function on a Windows 8 computer with USB 3?
Damian: i am not positive but let me get you to a technician to confirm this
You are being transferred to Tech Support department...
Michael: Thanks
You are now chatting with Richard
Richard: Hi Michael
Michael: Hello Richard
Michael: I was wondering if there are any updates planned for the Orion SSAG drivers to allow it to function on a USB 3.0 Windows 8 system?
Richard: They are working on the issue but I've not heard a date when the issue will be resolved.
Michael: Is there a beta test list that I may be placed on to help test the new driver?
Richard: I will send your offer to our engineering group.
Michael: ok, please pass along my email xxxxx@xxxxx.com
Michael: Thanks
Richard: Will do. And, thank you for your offer.
Michael: Thanks.. have a great day.
Richard: Thank you. You too.


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Sungrazer1965
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: linuxkidd]
      #6079558 - 09/13/13 10:47 PM

Help please anyone

I have a dell alienware machine. I followed the instructions from akulapanam and got it working - once only - I cannot replicate it and it cannot be recognized at all.
I have enabled USB debug (the dell turn off USB 3 in bios)

So what i have now tried is to:
uninstall ssag 2.0
use pnputil to force delete the OEM158.inf package
reinstall - with the driver signature enforcement disabled
no luck


then i have
uninstall ssag 2.0
use pnputil to force delete the OEM158.inf package
delete everything that starts with ssag on the c drive
reinstall with the driver signature enforcement disabled - again not recognised.

there must still be some redundant information somewhere about the driver that exists outside the removal protocols i have just used

if it helps i have to force delete the package because it says it wont delete because one or more devices presently installed using the specified inf (after uninstalling SSAG) and i have no idea what other devices coudl possibly be using this??

anyone have any suggestions at all

thanks

Edited by Sungrazer1965 (09/13/13 11:04 PM)


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Sungrazer1965
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: Sungrazer1965]
      #6091193 - 09/20/13 07:42 AM

Hi All,

Finally I have reset the computer to factory state, followed the instructions from akulapanam and NO luck. I can however get it to work on my work notebook which is a Dell Inspiron which is also windows 8 and USB3.

My correspondence with Orion roughly follows the same logic as that in the above post. No date for a fix and no idea about how to resolve the problem. They say it is inconsistent and can't be replicated by them.

I guess we will wait and see. A signed driver would be helpful since windows 8 insists on it.


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PatHolland
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: Sungrazer1965]
      #6095054 - 09/22/13 01:18 PM

I too, have had this issue but never tried it on my SSAG. My SX cameras and lodestar will not function in USB3. My ultimate solution was to use a USB2 ports with a USB2 hub on a USB3 port. Oddly enough, all my other cameras (Atik, QHY, DSLR, Orion Starshoot V2) worked just fine in the USB3 ports - just not the SX cameras.

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acropolite
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? possibly a solution new [Re: PatHolland]
      #6104911 - 09/27/13 08:47 PM

For anyone still experiencing problems with the SSAG and win 8, I did some exhaustive testing after a failed setup on a new Lenovo laptop (E531)and found the following.

1. The SSAG would not install correctly on a USB 3 port despite the latest drivers installing correctly, the SSAG came up with a device not recognised and displayed the same misreporting of VID/PID as described previously. None of the previously posted solutions would work for me.

2. Using the one USB2 port available on the Lenovo (E531) did not alter the outcome, the device still showed as not recognised.

2. Removal of all drivers, uninstallation of the unrecognised device and cleaning of the registry and files with CCleaner did not alter the outcome, the SSAG remained unrecognised on the USB2 port.

3. Restoration of the OS from the recovery partition and installation of the drivers, followed by connection of the SSAG in the USB2 port resulted in immediate success. There must be remnants of the failed install left in the either the registry or elsewhere which stop the device from being correctly recognised after the first failed attempt. It's probably possible to track down the offending entries and or files but in my case it was quicker to reload the OS from scratch.

My conclusion from this is that the SSAG, having installed incorrectly, likely won't install properly no matter how you tinker, installing on a clean OS (i.e. no previous failed attempts to install the SSAG) to a USB2 port looks, to me at least, as the only way to guarantee successful installation.

I've passed this info on to Orion, their response
Quote:

Thank you for contacting Orion Telescopes & Binoculars and for providing us with such thorough feedback. I have forwarded your email on to our Product Development team for their review. We appreciate your taking the time and having the patience to work through this.




Some more details in this thread on Iceinspace. http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=112400

Hope this helps.

Edited by acropolite (09/27/13 08:53 PM)


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davebuechler
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? possibly a solution new [Re: acropolite]
      #6217520 - 11/26/13 04:02 PM

So after using my SSAG on my Dell Inspiron with Win 8. Sometimes it is recognized and most of the time it is not. If I try, try again usually it will work after many times of connecting and disconnecting.....finally it gets recognized.

It has become pretty frustrating that is takes sometimes 10 tries before it is working.

Has there been any news since these last posts?

I tried to follow the fix by disabling XHCI but I can not find this option via BIOS setting (F2 at startup)


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DDWMANAGER
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Re: SSAG on Windows 8 64 bits? new [Re: guyroch]
      #6270778 - 12/24/13 02:30 PM

Ok guys I maybe very off base on this but I believe the issue is not Windows 8. I was having a similar issue with Stellarium and a few other astroprograms and I traced it to the video card / drivers used by ASUS. In my case it was a ASUS G73 using ATI drivers. I switched laptops to a Dell using a Intel video card and drivers and the problem went away. While on the ASUS G73 reformatting win7, win8, 32 or 64 bit or anything else I tried worked. ATI has a history of driver issues. They are very fast but their drivers always seem to be an odd duck. I do not know if you have access to another PC, aka non ASUS based. I also do not know if its a MB chipset issue as well. In any case try using a non-ATI based PC and see if the problems go away.

Steve W


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