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Astrophotography and Sketching >> DSLR & Digital Camera Astro Imaging & Processing

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harry page 1
sage


Reged: 07/25/09

Re: Learning PixInsight [Re: jsines]
      #5743649 - 03/19/13 06:21 PM

Hi
Ok I will download the files and have a play

Give me a day or so and I will get back to you

Harry


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jsines
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Re: Learning PixInsight [Re: harry page 1]
      #5743857 - 03/19/13 07:49 PM

Thanks! I'm also redoing them after learning a few things in the past week. I also didn't have the DSLR_RAW settings changed in Format Explorer. I changed them, but I can't find on the forums if that would have affected the output.

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mmalik
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Re: Learning PixInsight [Re: harry page 1]
      #5743880 - 03/19/13 07:56 PM

Asking this for learning sake...

How does DBE Magic compare to GradientXTerminator; are these doing necessarily the same thing or one doing something different/additional than the other? If one had both, would running both be an over-kill/moot? If one had both and were to pick one, which one would be preferred? Thx


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Peter in Reno
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Re: Learning PixInsight [Re: mmalik]
      #5743886 - 03/19/13 08:00 PM

I feel that PI DBE works better than GradX. DBE appears to be easier and more powerful.

Peter


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bluedandelion
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Re: Learning PixInsight [Re: Peter in Reno]
      #5743937 - 03/19/13 08:26 PM

Just to be clear, light pollution gradients are not noise. These are removed by the DBE or ABE tools.

All the images I have posted in this form were acquired with a Canon 350D which is quite a bit noisier than the newer DSLRS most people are shooting with these days. I do an Atrous Wave subtraction as demonstrated by Harry and some times I do a *mild* GreyCStoration correction directly afterwards. This is done on unstretched data. After stretching I do ACDNR for a little more noise reduction.

With this strategy I could retrieve a decent image at the top of this post. To see how noisy the stacked image was before all these routines, scroll down to the bottom of the same post.

Imaging with a DSLR is going to be inherently noisy. Some of Harry's images, I believe were taken with a CCD with a Sony chip.

I think we should probably get back to the question that started this thread.

Ajay


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mmalik
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Re: Learning PixInsight [Re: bluedandelion]
      #5744527 - 03/20/13 05:39 AM

Some very basic questions/scenarios if someone can help:

Note: CR2 files I am working with at the moment are already in-camera noise reduced.


•Harry's first video 'Alignment and Stacking' starts off with ‘Star Alignment’ process using FIT files but doesn't mention how to convert CR2s into FIT. What manual (not batch) process is used to convert CR2s to FIT in PixInsight, especially the ones that are already noise reduced/calibrated?

•What's the easiest/quickest way to get to 'Star Alignment' stage with in-camera noise reduced CR2s? How optimal it is to directly use noise reduced CR2s [not FITs] in ‘Star Alignment' process in PixInsight?

•If I try ImagesPlus converted CR2->FITs in 'Star Alignment', I get error "multiple images cannot be used as registration references", although I am using one reference image.

•'Star Alignment' process RUNs if I directly feed noise reduced CR2s, but running 'Image Integration' afterwards [on FITs produced in 'Star Alignment'] produces somewhat garbled 'rejection high/low' and 'integration' outputs.


In short I am very familiar with this CR2 conversion/alignment/combine in ImagesPlus but am kind of stuck getting things going in PixInsight (i.e., CR2 conversion, star alignment, image integration); I have good data by the way since same files work fine in ImagesPlus and produce excellent results. Your help will be greatly appreciated. Thx


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Alfredo Beltran
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Reged: 08/01/10

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Re: Learning PixInsight [Re: mmalik]
      #5744642 - 03/20/13 08:18 AM

Here you will find the recommended workflow for DSLR images with PixInsight.

Best regards

Alfredo


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bluedandelion
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Re: Learning PixInsight [Re: Alfredo Beltran]
      #5744859 - 03/20/13 10:53 AM

Mike, I 've not used CR2 files in PI. In one of the menu items is a batch file conversion utility. I am pretty sure PI can read and display CR2 files. I'll chck into it later and report, but perhaps someone else has already tried it.

As I said in an earlier post I used Nebulosity to calibrate my images with Darks, Flats, Bias and Flat Darks because I saved my initial files as comtressed FITS. After calibration I have Neb outpur 32 bit Fits that can be easily read by PI. This is the most efficient path for me time, CPU and disk-space wise. You could also use the output of calibrated files from ImagesPlus and move on to the stacking routine (Image integration) in PI.

If you are doing in camera noise reduction you may still want to do Flat and Bias correction. So in the batch processing utility leave out Darks and ignore any warnings related to this.

As long as PI can read a file, I doubt whether the format is CR2 or Fits.

Ajay


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jsines
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Re: Learning PixInsight [Re: mmalik]
      #5744950 - 03/20/13 11:42 AM

Quote:

Some very basic questions/scenarios if someone can help:

Note: CR2 files I am working with at the moment are already in-camera noise reduced.

•Harry's first video 'Alignment and Stacking' starts off with ‘Star Alignment’ process using FIT files but doesn't mention how to convert CR2s into FIT. What manual (not batch) process is used to convert CR2s to FIT in PixInsight, especially the ones that are already noise reduced/calibrated?
•What's the easiest/quickest way to get to 'Star Alignment' stage with in-camera noise reduced CR2s? How optimal it is to directly use noise reduced CR2s [not FITs] in ‘Star Alignment' process in PixInsight?
•If I try ImagesPlus converted CR2->FITs in 'Star Alignment', I get error "multiple images cannot be used as registration references", although I am using one reference image.
•'Star Alignment' process RUNs if I directly feed noise reduced CR2s, but running 'Image Integration' afterwards [on FITs produced in 'Star Alignment'] produces somewhat garbled 'rejection high/low' and 'integration' outputs.

In short I am very familiar with this CR2 conversion/alignment/combine in ImagesPlus but am kind of stuck getting things going in PixInsight (i.e., CR2 conversion, star alignment, image integration); I have good data by the way since same files work fine in ImagesPlus and produce excellent results. Your help will be greatly appreciated. Thx





I suggest watching Harry's video on the Batch PreProcessing script. You don't need to deal with Star Alignment or converting CR2 files to fit files. I'm using the Batch PreProcessing script with CR2 files. Think of it as a replacement for Deep Sky Stacker (with some added benefits!). I open the script, load my bias, flats, darks, and lights (as CR2 files), and it outputs fit files that have already been Star Aligned, along with master bias, master flat, and master dark if they are being created (as fit files). I can also add master frames to the script if I already have those.

After the Star Aligned fit files are created, I only need to run the Image Integration process a few times using "no rejection" as a basis to determine the best SNR increase. There is an excellent PowerPoint tutorial they created showing how to do this effectively to get the best SNR increase.

You can also use the Batch PreProcessing script with CR2 files that have in-camera noise reduction applied. Just add bias, flats, and lights, no darks, then run as usual. Harry mentions this in the video.

Edited by jsines (03/20/13 11:53 AM)


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jsines
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Re: Learning PixInsight [Re: Alfredo Beltran]
      #5744963 - 03/20/13 11:47 AM

Quote:

Here you will find the recommended workflow for DSLR images with PixInsight.

Best regards

Alfredo




Just to clarify, that thread is a step-by-step process to stack CR2 files. The entire process has been replaced by the Batch PreProcessing script, which can accept CR2 files and output fit files. It is a good thread to understand more how the script works or if you want to start doing it manually before using the script.


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Alfredo Beltran
sage


Reged: 08/01/10

Loc: Bogota, Colombia
Re: Learning PixInsight [Re: jsines]
      #5745048 - 03/20/13 12:28 PM

Quote:


Just to clarify, that thread is a step-by-step process to stack CR2 files. The entire process has been replaced by the Batch PreProcessing script, which can accept CR2 files and output fit files. It is a good thread to understand more how the script works or if you want to start doing it manually before using the script.




Yes, but as the dialog box warns, the Batch process doesn't produce as good results as doing the workflow. I did it both ways and can tell you there's a HUGE difference in the final stacked image. The workflow is not as hard as appears to be.

Having said that, results for every one might be different.

Best regards

Alfredo


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jsines
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Re: Learning PixInsight new [Re: Alfredo Beltran]
      #5745170 - 03/20/13 01:40 PM

Quote:


Yes, but as the dialog box warns, the Batch process doesn't produce as good results as doing the workflow. I did it both ways and can tell you there's a HUGE difference in the final stacked image. The workflow is not as hard as appears to be.
Having said that, results for every one might be different.
Best regards
Alfredo





This is very interesting, and I'm glad you mentioned this. I started using PI after the Batch process was put in place, and it seems like the default option now for most. I've only been using the Batch process but I was wondering if I could get better results (as I mentioned above). I was just thinking last night to try the manual process to see if the results were better.

What kind of difference did you find between the two methods to determine the manual process is better?

Also, since the note says that best results are obtained by fine tuning, did you make any (consistent) adjustments different to the thread instructions to get better results?

Thanks in advance,
Jeff


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Alfredo Beltran
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Reged: 08/01/10

Loc: Bogota, Colombia
Re: Learning PixInsight new [Re: jsines]
      #5745289 - 03/20/13 02:36 PM

Quote:


What kind of difference did you find between the two methods to determine the manual process is better?

Also, since the note says that best results are obtained by fine tuning, did you make any (consistent) adjustments different to the thread instructions to get better results?

Thanks in advance,
Jeff




Hi Jeff

What I found is that the "manual" workflow gives smoother and cleaner results. In fact, for me, it has produced the best result when stacking images.

I didn't do any fine tuning. I just used the recommended settings in the workflow and used bias, dark and flat frames.

Best regards,

Alfredo


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mmalik
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Re: Learning PixInsight new [Re: bluedandelion]
      #5745310 - 03/20/13 02:49 PM

Quote:

...I used Nebulosity to calibrate my images with Darks, Flats, Bias and Flat Darks because I saved my initial files as compressed FITS. After calibration I have Neb output 32 bit Fits that can be easily read by PI. This is the most efficient path for me time, CPU and disk-space wise.





First and foremost, I do understand there are various other programs that will do CR2 conversion/align/combine but I want to learn to do it in PixInsight, that's the whole idea.


Quote:

You could also use the output of calibrated files from ImagesPlus and move on to the stacking routine (Image integration) in PI.




I did try a permutation of this but it didn't work if you read my notes. Will try again with a different approach and report back.


I'll try what others have suggested to try in PI and report back. In short, let's please focus on doing things in PixInsight ONLY at this time before going off and stat mixing and matching. Please keep your good feedback coming. Regards


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harry page 1
sage


Reged: 07/25/09

Re: Learning PixInsight new [Re: mmalik]
      #5745474 - 03/20/13 03:49 PM

Hi

The script will calibrate and register your images perfectley and you do not need to do the manual stuff,

It is only the intergration you might need to run seperatley , only a check of the rejection maps will tell you this . i.e you can use the newley created registered and calibrated frames and run intergration on its own

Harry


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Ugmul
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Reged: 05/17/11

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Re: Learning PixInsight new [Re: harry page 1]
      #5745548 - 03/20/13 04:24 PM

I second Harrys post. Use preprocces script to get the registered images, from that point you use the image integration tool to get your image. The preprocessor script can integrate for you, but it has limited options and is not recommended.

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mmalik
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Re: Learning PixInsight new [Re: harry page 1]
      #5745861 - 03/20/13 06:19 PM Attachment (16 downloads)

Quote:

The script will calibrate and register your images perfectley and you do not need to do the manual stuff,

It is only the intergration you might need to run seperatley , only a check of the rejection maps will tell you this . i.e you can use the newley created registered and calibrated frames and run intergration on its own




As I have mentioned above, I have ONLY CR2 lights that are IN-camera noise reduced (I am NOT using any darks, flats or bias frames); here is batch process I have tried and error I get in the end. Thx

Note: I am taking all the defaults for batch processing!

PixInsight Version: 1.8 RC4

Continues into the next post...


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mmalik
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Re: Learning PixInsight new [Re: mmalik]
      #5745862 - 03/20/13 06:19 PM Attachment (13 downloads)

...continues from the previous post. Any ideas?

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Falcon-
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Re: Learning PixInsight new [Re: mmalik]
      #5745908 - 03/20/13 06:38 PM

The batch pre-process script can it seems be a bit picky about not working if you do not have things the way it expects. It could be that it just does not work without ANY calibration files.

So, ignore the script for this particular data set. Here are the steps I would follow:

1) go to Script -> Batch Processing -> BatchDebayer (convert all .CR2 files into colour FITS)
2) run the "StarAlignment" process to register/align the images
2a) Select all your debayered images using he Add Files button
2b) at the top of the process dialog change the Reference Image type from View to File then click the little down-arrow / blue triangle next to it and select one of your debayered images (I usually select one from the middle hoping my drift has been fairly constant)
2c) (optional) select an output directory for the new aligned files and/or change the postfix to prefix to make it easier to select your aligned images later
2d) hit the blue circle at the bottom of the process dialog
3) run the ImageIntergration process on the aligned images. Try various methods to get the best SNR in the end result (the tool-tips on the rejection algorithm type selector is useful here)

4) (and 5 and 6 and....... 73 ) make the pretty picture!


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pfile
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Reged: 06/14/09

Re: Learning PixInsight new [Re: mmalik]
      #5745912 - 03/20/13 06:39 PM

well, here's the thing about BPP. it's hiding the calibration workflow from you. the purpose of BPP *is* to calibrate images, meaning apply bias, dark, flat. etc.

you have not specified any calibration frames, so the script fails.

if you want to convert CR2 to fits (with no calibration), you can use the BatchFormatConversion script. however, be aware that the BFC script does not accept format hints. this means that however the DSLR_RAW file handler is configured, that is the way BFC will process the CR2.

DSLR_RAW can open the file as raw, or debayer it in any number of ways. since you're not calibrating, you might as well set up DSLR_RAW to just debayer the CR2.

to get to the DSLR_RAW configuration, click on the format explorer on the left edge, then double-click DSLR_RAW in the menu that appears.


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