nytecam
Postmaster
Reged: 08/20/05
Posts: 5755
Loc: London UK
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I'm testing a loaned Meade DSI and getting to grips with Envisage control software embedded within the Autostar-Suite planetarium program. Learning curve [after a decade of Starlight Xpress] is pretty daunting. Here's a quick montage of tonight's gibbous moon with strong Mare Crisium libration and nearby Saturn and a couple of sats through cloud gaps - getting down to ~mag12 in 15sec - images essentially unprocessed and haven't figured out how to use darks/flats as yet 
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Nytecam 51N 0.1W
Meade 30cm LX200+ETX-70+e-finder+C8+Ha+CaK PSTs SBIG SGS+homebuilt spectrographs
Starlight SXVF_M9+Lodestar CCDs/Canon 300D DSLR/Fuji E550
My observatory build-ETX-70 imaging-my videos
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novalad
member
Reged: 04/15/07
Posts: 67
Loc: Whitby,Ontario--Canada
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Nice shot!
I have the ETX125 PE on order from Khan Scopes in Toronto. I can hardly wait to test it out. I wanted a small Mak-Cas GoTo scope and this one seems to fit the bill. I thought it's long focal length and being f15 would be a nice compliment to my Skywatcher 120ED ,f7.5,900mm.
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Skywatcher 120ED PRO f7.5
Solarmax 40 BPF >.7A
ETX 125PE (astro tube) "on it's way"
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cnstarz
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/22/07
Posts: 549
Loc: Kentucky, USA
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Nice Montage, The color looks nice on the moon. BTW On either the 22nd or 23rd of may, Mars will be going through the Beehive cluster. I wonder if that DSI would be able to resolve an image of that?
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Matt
Apogee 50mm BB scope
ETX-60 BB
Meade 70-az
5" DIY Newt (wip)
C6-N on CG-4 GEM
Gallery
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mathteacher
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/13/07
Posts: 2059
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Hello, Nytecam! Why are you "slumming it" with the DSI when you have that nice starlight express scope? As always, I really enjoy your work.
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Regards, Mr. Wang . . . . . . . My gallery . . . . . . . I'm a refractor guy!
CR 150-HD - The Hammer, Vixen ED100sf - The Skipper, Orion ST80 - The Pug, Orion 7x50 Scenix
Meade DSI Color, Vixen Porta Mount, Vixen Super Polaris, 2" pipe mount
Please join the International Dark Sky Association
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MtnGoat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/18/07
Posts: 1213
Loc: Columbia Gorge, WA
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Cool. I'll be interested to see what you can get out of the DSI. I don't know about flats yet but darks are simple...give the entire system some time to reach temp equilibrium while plugged in, then simply set the interface to 'take darks', cap the scope and let it run for about 8.5 minutes. It puts them in it's own directory and automatically checks the 'dark subtract' box when it's all done. If you get a system hang, you can use the old darks simply by checking the box again after restarting.
Of course, the older the darks are the worse off you are. I get lousy results trying to use yesterdays, but unless the temp changes a lot the same set seem to work OK for a night.
On contrast...I set the autocontrast box for a given exposure length and let it pick a few times, then uncheck live image so I can play with the settings without a constant update. Then I fiddle with the contrast until it's how I like it, and leave it on that setting when I recheck 'live' image.
You are going to love the real time Drizzle action...it compensates for a *ton* of alignment issues. I set the pixel fraction size to 0.2, maximum resolution, and set the extended size to about 130%...this gives you a wider range if the field is slowly drifting, and yields a larger field than your native imager size if you intentionally let it drift. Of course if you are actually fully computer driven, you can let drizzle drive the scope and paint you a mosaic. Me, with simple drives I align manually and run, the drift method still works pretty nicely.
Oh yeah, I discovered running high contrast undarked images in drizzle creates 'breadcrumbs' in the image from the hot pixels that are a great alignment tool.
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"Ignorant people think it's the noise which fighting cats make that is so aggravating, but it ain't so; it's the sickening grammar they use." Mark Twain
Edited by MtnGoat (04/15/08 01:05 PM)
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justabob
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 1684
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I think once you find your way around envisage you will like it. However the dsi original color camera may be a bit disappointing.
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http://www.pbase.com/rkn/astro&page=all
Vixen Sphinx SXW
Meade sn6
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM Lens
Hutech 1000d
Self modded 350d
ST8300c on order
DSI PRO II
Bob
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nytecam
Postmaster
Reged: 08/20/05
Posts: 5755
Loc: London UK
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Quote:
Cool. I'll be interested to see what you can get out of the DSI
Thanks for the Envisage tips - I need 'em. Set DSI to take Rainbow grating on the ETX-70 this afternoon but now sky black in the west and a storm's a-brewing 
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Nytecam 51N 0.1W
Meade 30cm LX200+ETX-70+e-finder+C8+Ha+CaK PSTs SBIG SGS+homebuilt spectrographs
Starlight SXVF_M9+Lodestar CCDs/Canon 300D DSLR/Fuji E550
My observatory build-ETX-70 imaging-my videos
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MtnGoat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/18/07
Posts: 1213
Loc: Columbia Gorge, WA
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Glad to see you're giving it a go, we can bounce some ideas back and forth. Be *very* careful what you touch if you are in process and capturing in Drizzle..accidentally bumping the contrast sliders during capture can give you a system hang.
If you are not getting enough stacked images or it seems to be stuck, click back over to the 'live' image tab and make sure the alignment stars are still in their boxes...sometimes something will glitch and knock the alignment targets out of kilter, then your image quality calc will drop to 1% because it can't align, and it won't add any more images.
I am really impressed with the performance of the Drizzle code and it's capabilities. It makes imaging about as ludicrously simple as is possible.
My gripes about the interface..contrast sliders are way too small. They work, but are a pain to click on with cold fingers. Other gripes..the exposure timer running in the background is very annoying when going between exposure times, live image checkbox, and ending a drizzle capture.
You'll find that some actions are delayed while the exposure timer counts down. Sometimes it is counting down and not updating the countdown timer display. You wind up clicking something and nothing happens, then when the current exposure ends all your clicks happen at once. I think exposures should freeze until you tell them to resume.
I'm extremely happy with the performance of the DSI I color, for the 99 buck closeout price I don't see how it can be beat. I expect to wait until the same thing happens to the DSI II or III color units before I upgrade, in the meantime I'll continue to work on wringing as much as possible out of this system.
I need to work on getting the mount performing better so I can increase my exposures, the limited dynamic range for the shorter stackups means I get a lot of noise since I need a lot of histo 'stretch' to bring out faint details. The longer I can shoot, the wider the histograms are and the less stretch I need.
Not the best imager by far, but for the money I don't see how you can beat it, especially given the funky but worthwhile performance of Envisage.
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"Ignorant people think it's the noise which fighting cats make that is so aggravating, but it ain't so; it's the sickening grammar they use." Mark Twain
Edited by MtnGoat (04/15/08 03:23 PM)
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jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6763
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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A couple of quick notes...
It helps if you're using the latest version of the software (Update 4).
If you save all of your uncombined images as FITS3P you can play them back through Envisage later, the software doesn't care if the images are coming from the camera or your hard drive. This format also ignores the contrast settings so you can play with images while you're taking them and still have the untouched source data to play with later.
I leave my camera in 'Live' mode all the time. The 'Long Exposure' and 'Preview' modes are left-overs from older versions of the software ('Live' mode used to be limited to 15 seconds, but not after Update 4).
If you're used to a monochrome imager you might tinker with the monochrome mode of the DSI.
Have fun!
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-John
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Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
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MtnGoat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/18/07
Posts: 1213
Loc: Columbia Gorge, WA
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If I'm running FITS images do I get the live stackup as well as the realtime storage of all images?
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"Ignorant people think it's the noise which fighting cats make that is so aggravating, but it ain't so; it's the sickening grammar they use." Mark Twain
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justabob
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 1684
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Quote:
I'm extremely happy with the performance of the DSI I color, for the 99 buck closeout price I don't see how it can be beat.
Not the best imager by far, but for the money I don't see how you can beat it,
I agree 100% but comparing the resolution that Maurice is used to with his starlight express to the dsi he may be disappointed.
I got one of the etx60's that I sold back, turns out he never took it out of the box. So I mounted it on my vixen and did some imaging with my dsi pro. Will post after I get some sleep!
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http://www.pbase.com/rkn/astro&page=all
Vixen Sphinx SXW
Meade sn6
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM Lens
Hutech 1000d
Self modded 350d
ST8300c on order
DSI PRO II
Bob
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nytecam
Postmaster
Reged: 08/20/05
Posts: 5755
Loc: London UK
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Quote:
It helps if you're using the latest version of the software (Update 4)
I've now done this but Envisage still quotes v3.32 with msg "IPManual.pdf couldn't be opened" which may or may not be significant. I've IPManual.pdf v3.19 dated 7 Sept 04 within original AstroStar-Suite - is that ok 
Here's the experimental shots under tonight's bright gibbous moon with the ETX-70 plus DSI [with IR block removed for extended IR sensitivity] but with the Rainbow Optics grating immediately before the CCD imager on some brightish stars like hot Regulus and mostly cool orange/red stars which show broad banding. The fine lines are artefact of the resampling. The 'blue head' to Regulus raw image is caused by the simple Meade achromat's inability to bring far blue/violet to a common focus.
Variable R Leo was an amazing defocused fuzz-ball [due to IR emission] but I've refocused the near IR spectrum that's essentially colourless  There's another R Leo spectrum posted below.
Here's another showing the methane absorption band in Saturn's spectrum with nearby Regulus for comparison - pretty amazing for modest Meade equipment - note the fine vertical lines are artefacts of resampling
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Nytecam 51N 0.1W
Meade 30cm LX200+ETX-70+e-finder+C8+Ha+CaK PSTs SBIG SGS+homebuilt spectrographs
Starlight SXVF_M9+Lodestar CCDs/Canon 300D DSLR/Fuji E550
My observatory build-ETX-70 imaging-my videos
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nytecam
Postmaster
Reged: 08/20/05
Posts: 5755
Loc: London UK
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here's the lo-res field spectrum of cool variable R Leo and nearby hot 19 Leo from last night - almost the entire R Leo spectrum is in near infra-red recorded with the IR block filter removed from the Meade DSI cam and shows the sensitivity of the Sony/DSI CCD in doubled.
The gap between the real star images [left] was a whole frame width from their spectra but closed here in this montage and denoted by double line bottom left
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Nytecam 51N 0.1W
Meade 30cm LX200+ETX-70+e-finder+C8+Ha+CaK PSTs SBIG SGS+homebuilt spectrographs
Starlight SXVF_M9+Lodestar CCDs/Canon 300D DSLR/Fuji E550
My observatory build-ETX-70 imaging-my videos
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nytecam
Postmaster
Reged: 08/20/05
Posts: 5755
Loc: London UK
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here's a spectrum shot of the moon which shows why the Rainbow grating [in slitless mode] blurs any useful spectrum - it only works with stellar points sources - beyond pretties 
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Nytecam 51N 0.1W
Meade 30cm LX200+ETX-70+e-finder+C8+Ha+CaK PSTs SBIG SGS+homebuilt spectrographs
Starlight SXVF_M9+Lodestar CCDs/Canon 300D DSLR/Fuji E550
My observatory build-ETX-70 imaging-my videos
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jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6763
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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Cool! I did some simple spectroscopy using my DSI fitted with a film replica grating last year and I managed to get some low resolution spectra. I'm sure Nytcam know this, but for others that give this a try it helps to focus on the green region of the spectrum and not the star. Also, Autostar Image Processing Software (part of the Autostar Suite) has a really nice profile and stretch function for processing spectra.
I gotta get one of these Rainbow gratings or a similar small transmission grating. If you'd like to tinker with a simple grating Edmunds sells replica gratings in 35mm slide mounts that are very inexpensive.
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-John
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Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
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justabob
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 1684
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Quote:
If I'm running FITS images do I get the live stackup as well as the realtime storage of all images?
Yes, under the save project tab choose save all combined.
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http://www.pbase.com/rkn/astro&page=all
Vixen Sphinx SXW
Meade sn6
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM Lens
Hutech 1000d
Self modded 350d
ST8300c on order
DSI PRO II
Bob
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MtnGoat
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 02/18/07
Posts: 1213
Loc: Columbia Gorge, WA
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Cool. Will it save the ones that fail the quality criteria, or only the ones that pass? I messed with these settings last night and one of them ate hard drive space like crazy with a bunch of lousy images mixed with good ones.
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"Ignorant people think it's the noise which fighting cats make that is so aggravating, but it ain't so; it's the sickening grammar they use." Mark Twain
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justabob
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 1684
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Yes, I do not think the quality setting effects it. I always set quality to zero and evaluation to 5.
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http://www.pbase.com/rkn/astro&page=all
Vixen Sphinx SXW
Meade sn6
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM Lens
Hutech 1000d
Self modded 350d
ST8300c on order
DSI PRO II
Bob
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justabob
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 05/05/07
Posts: 1684
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We need John to chime in he is the envisage expert. I tried using tiff as a file format the other night as I do not use drizzle and am not using a meade mount. But I found that all the features are not available using the tiff format. So I stuck to fits and save all combined. Photo shop has a free "fits liberator plugin" to bring fits files directly into photo shop.
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http://www.pbase.com/rkn/astro&page=all
Vixen Sphinx SXW
Meade sn6
Canon EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM Lens
Hutech 1000d
Self modded 350d
ST8300c on order
DSI PRO II
Bob
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jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6763
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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If you save your images as FITS or FITS3P and select "Save All Uncombined Images" you'll get all of the source images regardless of what the match quality is set to. At he same time you can go ahead and cobine images in real-time in which case you'll get everything; all of the source images (all of them, not just the ones selected for stacking) and the combined image. It's a great way to get a decent image in real-time and the source images to re-process later.
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-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
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