Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Yesterday, I happened to be at a local scope store that had one brought in for a look by a Meade rep. All I can say is this is one impressive looking scope! The older ETX looks like a toy next to it. It's quite heavy. I'd say over 30 lbs for the mount and the OTA. If anything, it's overbuilt. If it turns out to be relatively bug free, this will be one great scope.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 3608
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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Waiting for afirst light report from someone??? anytime now.
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, SV 80/9D & M4 mount, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, 20x80 binoculars, SV-BV3s-- www.texasastro.org
"Great minds discuss ideas;Average minds discuss events;Small minds discuss people." Unknown
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 13439
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Hi Starlighter.
Was that a working unit?
Did the Meade Rep give a demo with it, or was the scope just for display and a look thru?? 
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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It's a working unit. I just missed the demo when I walked in. I was told by the store people that it worked perfectly. Just as advertised.
This is one serious looking piece of gear. Just lifting it gave my suffering back a workout! And it wasn't on its tripod. The tripod is beefier than the one that comes with the ETX125. But it doesn't come with a built-in wedge. If it did and someone tried to use it, the scope would easily tip over. The Meade rep told me they will make a proper accessory wedge available at some point in the near future for those who wish to do accurate astrophotography utilizing lengthy exposure times. So far, no factory hard case will be available. The store was looking at which case they sell would fit the scope. It turns out they had to use one of the largest! And even then, the diagonal had to be removed with the scope on its mount laid in at an angle.
This scope is way overbuilt. It all made in Mexico at Meade's facility. The OTA looks solid. The blue color is quite attractive. The focuser is buttery smooth.
The scope uses all metal gearing. In fact, I was told it's the same mechanism that's used in their larger LX200 series.
This looks like a winner for Meade! If I hadn't plunked down a small fortune on a brand new TV-85, I would seriously consider buying one.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
It's a working unit. I just missed the demo when I walked in. I was told by the store people that it worked perfectly. Just as advertised.
On the sky? Or did they jus' play around with it inside?
I like the basic idea of the scope...but I reckon I'd never be able to part with my trusty 125PE, Charity Hope Valentine. And I'd prob'ly miss those MCT optics if I did. 
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
Edited by rmollise (03/20/09 06:51 PM)
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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It's my understand they set it up during daytime so it slewed towards objects. But being bright daylight, they were impossible to see.
You have to see it in person to appreciate it. The older ETX might have excellent optics, but this one simply blows it out the door when it comes to the build quality. Sit it next to an older ETX and the older version comes off as a toy.
Now as far as the quality of this new scope's optics go, I have no idea how it will compare. It has more aperture than the 125ETXPE. It's a coma-free design. But it does require collimation, providing it's knocked out of alignment. That said, I can say from my own experience that collimating an SCT is quite easy. Adding Bob's Knobs made it a no-hassle quick procedure.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
I can say from my own experience that collimating an SCT is quite easy.
That's what I hear...
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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Arthur Dent
Galactic Hitch-Hiker
Reged: 10/23/08
Posts: 1182
Loc: South Yorkshire, UK
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Well, that all depends on how precise you want to carry out the collimation.
Rough & ready collimation is easy on an SCT, as is a more precise form - providing you have something like Bob's Knobs and a short scope tube like an SCT - because you can view the effect of turning one of the 3 collimation screws through the eyepiece.
The final part of collimation - getting the scope to REALLY perform, isn't easy - but then you have to turn the correct collimation screw about 1/15 to 1/12 of a turn for that final tweak!
We are talking a difference of about 1/6 to 1/10 lambda here.
An excellent site is: SCTScopes.net and many, many sites refer to: Thierry Legault's Site on SCT Collimation - this guy knows what he is talking about!
Art
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If I like it, the wife says that we can't afford it!
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Meade ETX105 (a nice "Grab & Go" scope) & Celestron NexStar 6SE with Bob's Knobs.
Various EP's from 6mm to 26mm, Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Zoom, a 2x Barlow, 2" diagonal and 7Ah PowerTank.
MRF and Antares 8x50 RACI finder scope - both for the 6SE's OTA, whilst the ETX gets a plain RDF.
Canon EOS 400D DSLR (un-modded) and SPC900 webcam. Finally climbing the AP Learning Curve!
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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I collimate until I see a perfect circle on an unfocused bright star.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Arthur Dent
Galactic Hitch-Hiker
Reged: 10/23/08
Posts: 1182
Loc: South Yorkshire, UK
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Hi Starlighter,
I tried to do that last night but the oof star was "flaring" - I obviously hadn't let the scope cool down enough and tube currents were playing havoc.
Beat a hasty retreat indoors when I started coughing as I am trying to shift a heavy cold that I've had now for 4 weeks 
Art
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If I like it, the wife says that we can't afford it!
=======================================================
Meade ETX105 (a nice "Grab & Go" scope) & Celestron NexStar 6SE with Bob's Knobs.
Various EP's from 6mm to 26mm, Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Zoom, a 2x Barlow, 2" diagonal and 7Ah PowerTank.
MRF and Antares 8x50 RACI finder scope - both for the 6SE's OTA, whilst the ETX gets a plain RDF.
Canon EOS 400D DSLR (un-modded) and SPC900 webcam. Finally climbing the AP Learning Curve!
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Watch it. Don't end up with pneumonia.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
Well, that all depends on how precise you want to carry out the collimation.
What I mean is that I've collimated one or two over the last 35 years. 
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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Mike Cook
member
Reged: 07/13/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Moncton NB (Cloud Central)
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I'm glad to read that the ETX-LS appears to be a solidly built telescope. Time will tell though once it is in the field and in use. Supposed to be available in my part of the world around April. Does the central obstruction look as large in real life as it appears in videos and photos?
Michael C
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Meade ETX125PE Maksutov
Meade series 5000 80mm triplet on AT Voyager alt-az
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Scott K
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 09/13/07
Posts: 1409
Loc: Dallas, TX & Eufaula, OK
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This seems like a really exciting product. Is it still small and light enough, in your opinion, to be "grab-n-go?"
If it is as fool-proof as advertised, and they can market it correctly, this sounds like an amazingly good starter scope.
I've thought about lending my brother-in-law my old 8" lx-200. It's not a difficult scope to setup, but you have to know the sky at least a little bit in order for the goto to really work well. I'd like to share with him, but the learning curve for starting this hobby makes it tough.
The $1300 price (which isn't bad at all in my opinion) might put some off though. $1300 seems like a lot of money to spend on a new hobby - although if the ETX-LS lives up to it's promise, it seems like it would last a person a long time.
Anyway, thanks for the report. This is sounding better and better to me! 
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teskridg
sage
Reged: 01/15/08
Posts: 279
Loc: PA
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Obviously the competition for this would be a Celestron 6SE at $999 list. Given the lightswitch technology, the ACF optics and the beefier looking mount, I believe Meade has priced the LS strategically well. Especially if the gears are metal and not as chintzy or noisy as those on the ETX models.
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Tim Eskridge
CPC 800
Scopebuggy
Burgess Binoviewer Model 24
8mm Radian
11mm Nagler
15mm GTO
20mm Burgess binolite and Stellar
26mm Meade SP Series 4000
30mm Vixen NPL
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Quote:
I'm glad to read that the ETX-LS appears to be a solidly built telescope. Time will tell though once it is in the field and in use. Supposed to be available in my part of the world around April. Does the central obstruction look as large in real life as it appears in videos and photos?
Michael C
That's the one thing that bothered me. Yes, the CO is large. Larger than the one on my 6SE. I guess it has to do with the design to remove coma. But I also suspect it will reduce contrast.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Quote:
This seems like a really exciting product. Is it still small and light enough, in your opinion, to be "grab-n-go?"
At over 30 lbs for the single-arm mount and the OTA, it's not exactly lightweight. You have to add another ten to fifteen pounds for the beefed up tripod. My entire 6SE weighs around 30 LBs.
Quote:
The $1300 price (which isn't bad at all in my opinion) might put some off though. $1300 seems like a lot of money to spend on a new hobby - although if the ETX-LS lives up to it's promise, it seems like it would last a person a long time.
I believe the suggested list price is quite fair. This is one well built scope.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6758
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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I suspect the larger CO is to make full advantage of the ACF optics; what good is a nice flat field of you clip it with vignetting by using an under-sized secondary? Most visual scopes are designed around a 70% fully illuminatd field (about 0.7 inches across at the focal plane). It would be interesting to compare the size of the CO of a pre-ACF SC8 with the new ACF SC8s.
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-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
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StarWars
Postmaster
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 13807
Loc: CyberSpace
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Quote:
Hi Starlighter.
Was that a working unit?
Did the Meade Rep give a demo with it, or was the scope just for display and a look thru??
As it stands the ETX-LS is just a prototype model. It remains to be seen if Meade will produce this scope with the current preorders... 
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Sony Digital Media player..
MX 460 earbuds
Celestron 2x Barlow Lens
Orion Collimation Eyepiece
Rigel Quick Finder
Assorted Bino's 
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supercoolone
member
Reged: 07/25/07
Posts: 93
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OPT's salesforce has a review of the ETX-LS and they gave positive comments on actual test. It sounded good.
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Bob Griffiths
Postmaster
Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 6583
Loc: Frederick Maryland
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I'll stay on the sidelines for a few YEARS after the scopes hit the streets before I write a check for one. IF and only IF I see a major advantage of using one...
Bob G.
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CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
Gerbring Heated Motorcycle clothing in the winter
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W
The sky over my head....
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Quote:
Quote:
Hi Starlighter.
Was that a working unit?
Did the Meade Rep give a demo with it, or was the scope just for display and a look thru??
As it stands the ETX-LS is just a prototype model. It remains to be seen if Meade will produce this scope with the current preorders...
That's not what I was told. Meade is building them and they will hit dealers by late April.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Boom
member
Reged: 01/11/08
Posts: 66
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Hmmmm...
It appears as if there will be two versions of the LS. A SCT version for $1299 and the ACF version for $1499.
Doh...
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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I saw that. I wonder what's up. I also wonder if the SCT version has a smaller central obstruction. The one on the ACF version is larger than the one on my Nexstar 6SE SCT.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Bob Griffiths
Postmaster
Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 6583
Loc: Frederick Maryland
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That is kind of interesting....My initial guy feeling is that the Marketing department wanted to put a dollar value on the AFC scopes advantage over the Normal SCT design... Thus making any ACF worth at least 200 bucks more then their competitors regular designs...????
Time will tell... but my gut also tells me that the novice buyer will fork over the extra money for the AFC because the optics must be better...
Not a bad move by Meade...especially if they ship the majority of the LSs' out the door with AFC
Bob G.
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CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
Gerbring Heated Motorcycle clothing in the winter
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W
The sky over my head....
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StarWars
Postmaster
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 13807
Loc: CyberSpace
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ETX-LS SCT and ACF ...
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Sony Digital Media player..
MX 460 earbuds
Celestron 2x Barlow Lens
Orion Collimation Eyepiece
Rigel Quick Finder
Assorted Bino's
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mclewis1
Thread Killer
Reged: 02/25/06
Posts: 3948
Loc: New Brunswick, Canada
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I'm with Bob ... but producing two different OTAs has got to be an awfully expensive way of differentiating value between an SC and ACF versions. Yes, I guess it has value for the other product lines as they can try to put down their competition ...
"we know both designs" (speaks to credibility of message)
"ACF is worth more" (helps negate Celestron's aperture advantage)
"advanced users prefer ACF" (why we only have ACF on the larger scopes ... but this message can backfire on some folks who would take offense to the idea that buying an LS SC scope makes them less than an advanced user).
I guess I just don't "get" Meade's marketing ... they moved away from SCs in both the LX200 and LX90 families only to re introduce an SC with the LS series.  Maybe they are going to play that "advanced user" card.
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Mark
C11, C6, APM/TMB115, and AT80ED - Tandem mount CGE and CG-5A, WO EZ-Touch and AT Voyager
25x100s and 8x56s, T-Mount Light, Mark 1 eyeballs - Modded 350D, DSI-P, SPC900, Mallincam
Just because you can doesn't necessarily mean that you should
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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As an owner of an SCT, I have to wonder that even though the ACF system will remove coma, will the scope still suffer from mirror curvature distortion inherent in most lower priced scopes using catadioptric design? I see it with my Celestron 6SE. I've seen it in other SCTs. Stars at the center are sharp while at the periphery they're out of focus. If I focus on the stars at the outer edge, the center goes out. I've been told by several experts that unless one invests in an expensive, larger aperture catadioptric, this problem will occur. In my situation, I somewhat eliminated it by using a Celestron focal reducer. This also decreases magnification which for me is fine. Where I live, poor seeing conditions plus light pollution tend to make it hard to use a scope with a focal length greater than 1,000mm.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6758
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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Field curvature of the ACF design should be greatly reduced as the origins of the ACF design was to flatten the field for imaging. They way they went about it is interesting. Most flat-field Cat designs use precision hyperbolic primary and secondary elements which makes them difficult (and expensive) to figure. If I understand the ACF approach they moved the wave-front correction from the reflecting elements to the corrector which is already the expensive element so the change in the cost of this element is relatively small as compared to the mirrors. It's cleaver design that apparently works quite well and takes advantage of some of the options you have in the Cat optical path.
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-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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With the focal reducer installed, I can plug in my 13mm Ethos and see sharp stars almost to the field stop.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
As an owner of an SCT, I have to wonder that even though the ACF system will remove coma, will the scope still suffer from mirror curvature distortion inherent in most lower priced scopes using catadioptric design? I see it with my Celestron 6SE. I've seen it in other SCTs. Stars at the center are sharp while at the periphery they're out of focus. If I focus on the stars at the outer edge, the center goes out. I've been told by several experts that unless one invests in an expensive, larger aperture catadioptric, this problem will occur. In my situation, I somewhat eliminated it by using a Celestron focal reducer. This also decreases magnification which for me is fine. Where I live, poor seeing conditions plus light pollution tend to make it hard to use a scope with a focal length greater than 1,000mm.
Coma is reduced in this SCT design. The field is pretty flat too, but it is not perfect. That is why lots of ACF/RCX owners kept/keep asking Meade for a reducer corrector designed especially for their scopes (Aplantic SCTs, that is).
--------------------
Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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This is the one area I do not like about my 6SE. If I use my TV-85 or my Meade 80mm APO or my SV102ED, I see stars as sharp pinpoints right to the field stop. When the 13mm Ethos is used, it's really a spectacular sight. Before I bought the focal reducer, using the Ethos on the SCT just didn't work. Now with the focal reducer, I see stars pretty sharp almost to the field stop.
Using a focal reducer on a scope with a center obstruction is a bit tricky. It really exacerbates the CO making it appear, depending on how I position my eye, like a drop in luminance at the center. This is only a problem when viewing the moon. If I remove the focal reducer, the moon looks better. But I don't use the SCT that much to view the moon.
I worry that the CO on the new ETX-LS is larger than what's on my 6SE and therefor it will produce an even more loss of contrast.
I wonder why they just didn't make it available with a 7" Mak.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
This is the one area I do not like about my 6SE. If I use my TV-85 or my Meade 80mm APO or my SV102ED, I see stars as sharp pinpoints right to the field stop. When the 13mm Ethos is used, it's really a spectacular sight. Before I bought the focal reducer, using the Ethos on the SCT just didn't work. Now with the focal reducer, I see stars pretty sharp almost to the field stop.
Using a focal reducer on a scope with a center obstruction is a bit tricky. It really exacerbates the CO making it appear, depending on how I position my eye, like a drop in luminance at the center. This is only a problem when viewing the moon. If I remove the focal reducer, the moon looks better. But I don't use the SCT that much to view the moon.
For me, it's not a problem of any kind, even on the Moon. I rarely remove the 6.3 from my rear cell. Well, I'll admit I don't observe the Moon with long focal length eyepieces, and I don't use the scope during the day. The Celestron f/6.3 focal reducer/corrector works just fine, and goes a long way toward cleaning up the Celestron field edge.
--------------------
Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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supercoolone
member
Reged: 07/25/07
Posts: 93
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Quote:
ETX-LS SCT and ACF ...
Woahh...prices are getting out of hand, "everyone's telescope" is NOT!!! We're getting darn near the eight inch sct LX90/LXD75 prices here for a six inch.
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jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6758
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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I was thinking the same thing. At these prices the LS strikes me as a niche scope to compliment the ETX or LX lines or to even bridge these lines, not a replacement. As nice as it may be, it may end being a scope that's searching for an identity. Still, the first units have yet to ship so we'll have to wait and see. I'm glad I've got a nice set of ETX's with no real desire to 'upgrade' at the moment.
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-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
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violini
member
Reged: 10/03/08
Posts: 61
Loc: Winnipeg, Canada
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This is a really bad news. For those us who have placed pre-orders, they never mentioned SCT in the ad. Now they want us to shell out $200 more, I will forget Meade all together.
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Own a poor man's Questar:ETX90 RA
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Something stinks. I just got the latest issue of Sky and Telescope and in the Meade advertisement (pg. 7) there is no mention of two versions. They just list the ACF version and the price is $1,299. Ads for dealers don't show two versions, and that includes Astronomics (pg. 39) which lists the scope as selling for $1,299 and mentions it comes with ACF.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Arthur Dent
Galactic Hitch-Hiker
Reged: 10/23/08
Posts: 1182
Loc: South Yorkshire, UK
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Well the Meade website DOES list two different versions - the SCT and the ACF.
Mind you, I don't know whether someone has slipped up on this side of the pond, but Telescope House are showing the ACF version for the same price that the ETX-LS was when it was announced: £1299 (see here).
No mention of the ETX-LS SCT!!
Art
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If I like it, the wife says that we can't afford it!
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Meade ETX105 (a nice "Grab & Go" scope) & Celestron NexStar 6SE with Bob's Knobs.
Various EP's from 6mm to 26mm, Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Zoom, a 2x Barlow, 2" diagonal and 7Ah PowerTank.
MRF and Antares 8x50 RACI finder scope - both for the 6SE's OTA, whilst the ETX gets a plain RDF.
Canon EOS 400D DSLR (un-modded) and SPC900 webcam. Finally climbing the AP Learning Curve!
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Over here in the colonies, the Meade dealers I checked all list it for $1,299, and that's for the ACF model. I think Meade has some explaining to do.
OPT
Scope City
Woodland Hill
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6758
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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Welllll, if you read the fine print it says they can change the specs without notice, I'm just surprised they did. Also, the last time I checked OPT's web site they're listing both versions at $1299. I am surprised Meade came out with a SCT version since it looks like the ACF's are going to be their main line. Until these start shipping we're still guessing what's actually going to sell for what. Like most pre-announced new products it's usually good entertainment watching the show until the dust settles. I have yet to see a case where it was actually a good idea to be the first kid on your block with a new toy (aka beta-tester of the first production run).
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-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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The link I provided to OPT only shows the one model at $1,299 and it states it uses ACF.
The Meade 6" ETX-LS ACF Telescope features patented LightSwitch™ Technology for complete, stress-free user alignment. Our Price: $1,299.00
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6758
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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If you click on the ETX-LS banner on OPT's home page it should bring up...
http://www.optcorp.com/productList.aspx?uid=1-600-603-571-1406
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-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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They're both listed as costing $1,299!
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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supercoolone
member
Reged: 07/25/07
Posts: 93
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It's hilarious - this is after Meade's news spot stating that they were dropping the SCT design after 27 years.
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS240197+12-Aug-2008+BW20080812
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Just to add to the confusion, when I saw the scope at a Meade dealer where a rep from was present, I asked him if an eight incher was on the horizon since the mount is so beefy it could easily handle a larger tube. He said for now there will be only one model available.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Check this out: First impressions
It states the central obstruction is 70mm. That's pretty big. The CO on my Nexstar 6SE is roughly 60mm.
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jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6758
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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The size of the secondary is dictated by the optical design and by itself it doesn't mean much. You have to look at the entire optical system and the spot diagrams to compare one system with another. For example; the Gregorian has a really small secondary, but poor off-axis performance. Despite that I built a 10" Greg many years ago and I really liked it, one of the best planetary scopes I've very used. I once used a 5" f/8 folded Newtonian with a 50% CO (the ATM who built it used it as a travel scope) and it worked surprisingly well.
Just for yucks you could tape a 70mm disk to the back of the secondary of your SE and see if you notice any difference. It's not a perfect test since your SE doesn't have the ACF optics set, but it still might be an interesting test.
Have fun!
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-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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I suspect there'd be a loss in contrast plus with my 6SE, I'm using a focal reducer which makes the CO show up on bright objects like the moon. Making it any bigger would really create a problem.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Chris Rowland
sage
Reged: 02/28/05
Posts: 269
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Quote:
Check this out: First impressions
There's still no evidence that it actually works.
Has anyone seen this under the stars doing an unattended align? Without that it's a 6" scope for the price of an 8".
Chris
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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What bothers me more is that Meade has suddenly announced two versions will be available. An SCT and an ACF. And the price of the ACF version is now $200 more. Something's not right. Meade announced it was abandoning the production of SCTs in favor of ACFs. They put out a press release. And when I saw the ETX-LS, and asked the rep if an 8" was on the horizon, he said "no" that this was the only LS model. And the one I saw was an ACF model.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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StarWars
Postmaster
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 13807
Loc: CyberSpace
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Quote:
The link I provided to OPT only shows the one model at $1,299 and it states it uses ACF.
The Meade 6" ETX-LS ACF Telescope features patented LightSwitch™ Technology for complete, stress-free user alignment. Our Price: $1,299.00
Bait and Switch... 
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Sony Digital Media player..
MX 460 earbuds
Celestron 2x Barlow Lens
Orion Collimation Eyepiece
Rigel Quick Finder
Assorted Bino's
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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No, bait and LightSwitch!
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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StarWars
Postmaster
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 13807
Loc: CyberSpace
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Quote:
No, bait and LightSwitch!
Starlighter,
Buy both and write two reviews...  
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Sony Digital Media player..
MX 460 earbuds
Celestron 2x Barlow Lens
Orion Collimation Eyepiece
Rigel Quick Finder
Assorted Bino's
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rsraney
member
Reged: 09/16/07
Posts: 73
Loc: Sunnyvale, CA
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Only if I can expense the both of them.
- Shane
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Domerman
What have I done?
Reged: 07/21/07
Posts: 951
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Has anyone yet had an ETX-LS delivered to them? I haven't heard anything about these scopes for awhile. I'm not very interested in buying, but I have a vested interest in Meade products, as I have had quite a bit of their scopes over the years.
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~Steve
My Astro-Photo Blog: http://absurduniverse.blogspot.com/
Mounts
BUSTED CGEM w/Dual ADM Vixen/Losmady Saddle and ADM SBS
Scopes
Astronomy Technologies 6" f/9 Ritchey-Chrétien
Orion 80ED w/MoonLite Focuser
Orion ST80 (Guide Scope)
Cameras
QHY8 w/IDAS LPS filter
DSI-C (Auto-Guider)
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
Has anyone yet had an ETX-LS delivered to them? I haven't heard anything about these scopes for awhile. I'm not very interested in buying, but I have a vested interest in Meade products, as I have had quite a bit of their scopes over the years.
Last this ol' boy heard, Meade was sayin' "fall"...
Now that doesn't necessarily say fall of which YEAR either.
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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Domerman
What have I done?
Reged: 07/21/07
Posts: 951
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Wow, really? I was under the impression that they would be made available around February of this year. I remember hearing about people saying that they might even be available December 2008. Things are not as they seem as usual.
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~Steve
My Astro-Photo Blog: http://absurduniverse.blogspot.com/
Mounts
BUSTED CGEM w/Dual ADM Vixen/Losmady Saddle and ADM SBS
Scopes
Astronomy Technologies 6" f/9 Ritchey-Chrétien
Orion 80ED w/MoonLite Focuser
Orion ST80 (Guide Scope)
Cameras
QHY8 w/IDAS LPS filter
DSI-C (Auto-Guider)
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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I was told just a couple of weeks ago that scopes would be at dealers in early June. Now you're saying late this year. Man! I smell problems. First Meade announces the scope will be an ACF. No SCT version. They list it for $1,299 and in every single publication it's shown in describes it at that price and as an ACF. Then they do a backflip and say, "No, the $1,299 buys you an SCT version. If you want the ACF, it'll cost you an extra $200." To add to the confusion, when I saw the scope in person and ask the Meade rep if there were any plans in the works to come out with other models on that same mount he said no, that this was it. The one he showed stated it was an ACF model. And the prototype I saw was built like a tank. In fact, I'd say it was way overbuilt. Now I wonder if the versions they eventually sell will be as robust.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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jgraham
Postmaster
Reged: 12/02/04
Posts: 6758
Loc: Dayton, Ohio
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Sounds like the normal pitfalls of pre-announcing a major new product. I don't know why companies do it, I have yet to see a major pre-announced product that didn't suffer major PR/marketing/growing pains. Oh well, I'm glad I've got my ETX-125PE. I had it out this evening watching the moon come up (just ahead of the clouds rolling in). What a relaxing way to end the evening.
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-John
================================================
Homebuilt scopes from 4.25-16.5"
Meade LXD75-N6/SN6/SC8, DSX-90, ETX-60BB, ETX-125PE, DS-2130
Orion StarBlast, BinoViewers, Coronado PST
Rebel XT/XTi, DSI Pro (I, II, & III), DSI, LPI, Electronic Eyepiece, Phillips SPC900NC
Tasco 60mm Refractors
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 13439
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Quote:
Sounds like the normal pitfalls of pre-announcing a major new product. I don't know why companies do it, I have yet to see a major pre-announced product that didn't suffer major PR/marketing/growing pains.
One reason companies do it...
to discourage buyers from purchasing equipment from their competition.
It's a case of "Don't buy Brand X's model, because we have a much better one coming out soon!". Of course, soon can turn into "much later".
Some companies seem to use this tactic more than others.
But it's all good, as long as the customer pays their deposits and "the other guy" loses sales as a result.
That's the scope biz, sometimes.
--------------------
A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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sandflea
newbie
Reged: 11/19/08
Posts: 3
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When I first saw this scope I was definitely going to pull the trigger. Now, after 6 months, the ACF $200 business, the fact that the CCD doesn't even use the optics... I'll go with a larger aperture scope on a GEM. Thinking about the meade lxd75 sc-8...
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Elias_Jordan
member
Reged: 12/26/08
Posts: 74
Loc: Derby, Kansas
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Hello everyone,
Well every website I look at says:
Award-winning Meade ETX-LS Telescope will be available for sale in the beginning of 2009
So I see two things wrong with this, One its past the beginning of 2009 and they still don't have it out. Two how is it already award winning? I thought they did not have a working model.
Then to add on to what people are saying.. Telescopes.com are saying that the ETX LS will be available with choice of ACF Advanced Coma Free Optics or SC Schmidt-Cassegrain Optics and they are saying that they are coming out this month.
Has anyone talked to the Meade people and asked them for the exact release date?
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Elias_Jordan
member
Reged: 12/26/08
Posts: 74
Loc: Derby, Kansas
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Alright, I just called them up and here is exactly what they said:
There is no exact release date, but I believe they told me in the next two months or by the end of this month.
End quote
So what in the world does that mean? Any ideas?
Thanks and Clear Skies,
Elias Jordan
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dmdouglass
super member
Reged: 12/23/07
Posts: 144
Loc: Tempe, AZ
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You ask... "So what in the world does that mean? Any ideas?
Well, yeah. It means it is not ready for release yet! Trust me, they want to release it just as much as others want to see it..... But they sure don't want to release it if there are still some problems being worked out.
Patience. Hopefully soon.
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David M. Douglass
Tempe, Arizona
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Bob Griffiths
Postmaster
Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 6583
Loc: Frederick Maryland
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Quote:
You ask... "So what in the world does that mean? Any ideas?
Well, yeah. It means it is not ready for release yet! Trust me, they want to release it just as much as others want to see it..... But they sure don't want to release it if there are still some problems being worked out.
Patience. Hopefully soon.
Ah sounds like Meade is finally learning NOT to ship something out the door UNTIL all the bugs are worked out....
Seriously Meade absolutely needs this scope to work...If it does it just may save the company.
Bob G.
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CPC1100
Nexstar 8i + GPS & Rays Brackets
Denk S1 power switch
Orion 100 mm Refractor
Meade LXD 55 ...AR-5 127 mm Refractor
Exploradome Observatory S.I.E. (Smiling Irish Eyes)
Gerbring Heated Motorcycle clothing in the winter
39*21'03" N
77*28'12" W
The sky over my head....
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brianb11213
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/25/09
Posts: 2107
Loc: 55.215N 6.554W
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Quote:
Ah sounds like Meade is finally learning NOT to ship something out the door UNTIL all the bugs are worked out....
Good. But it would be better still if they didn't announce the product before starting to develop it. I don't know how many sales they've lost by promising to deliver in February (still no sign of any consumer units) but I'd be surprised if it's only a few.
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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So far, as I see it, they've made three major mistakes.
First was announcing it at the specific price of $1,299 for an ACF model. No mention until much later that it would end up costing $1,499 for the ACF and that $1,299 just gets you an SCT. That's bad business. Some dealers still list it at $1,299 for the ACF.
Second was even showing the darned thing when we all know it doesn't work as advertised. Had I been in charge of Meade I'd have had it working, kept it under raps and then announced it to the world showing it in action under the stars.
Thirdly, the notion that a camera is built in and can take photographs of celestial objects is terribly misleading. What they have is ostensibly a web cam attached to the bottom of the scope using some magnification. It's primary use is to align the scope. I'd have never stated one could use it photographically.
So now we learn the scope costs more, won't be out till much later and we don't even know if this means this year or next year. Not good.
--------------------
Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
Alright, I just called them up and here is exactly what they said:
There is no exact release date, but I believe they told me in the next two months or by the end of this month.
End quote
So what in the world does that mean? Any ideas?
Thanks and Clear Skies,
Elias Jordan
What does it mean? The same thing as when you ask the Magic 8 Ball a question and it responds "Ask Again Later."
My guess is by the end of the year, if ever.
--------------------
Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
So far, as I see it, they've made three major mistakes.
Second was even showing the darned thing when we all know it doesn't work as advertised. Had I been in charge of Meade I'd have had it working, kept it under raps and then announced it to the world showing it in action under the stars.
Thirdly, the notion that a camera is built in and can take photographs of celestial objects is terribly misleading. What they have is ostensibly a web cam attached to the bottom of the scope using some magnification. It's primary use is to align the scope. I'd have never stated one could use it photographically.
So now we learn the scope costs more, won't be out till much later and we don't even know if this means this year or next year. Not good.
To cut Meade some slack, nobody but they and their beta testers know whether the prototypes work right or don't or what problems they may have had putting the telescope into production.
As for the camera, yes, the ads have been confusing. It's pretty clear now that what it is is a web (or DSI or LPI) type camera that does not shoot through the main scope but through a short focal length lens. That being the case, yeah, I'd guess you could take some wide angle images as the ads say.
--------------------
Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Quote:
To cut Meade some slack, nobody but they and their beta testers know whether the prototypes work right or don't or what problems they may have had putting the telescope into production.
Well, that doesn't diminish the fact that they shouldn't have announced it until all the bugs were worked out. What if they never get them out? Take their My Sky. It was a disaster. I know since I bought one. The latest version still has problems which is why few Meade dealers carry them in stock. Returns are still high. The latest version no longer has the GPS activated. The circuit is still inside, but it's turned off and rightly so because it hardly ever works.
Quote:
As for the camera, yes, the ads have been confusing. It's pretty clear now that what it is is a web (or DSI or LPI) type camera that does not shoot through the main scope but through a short focal length lens. That being the case, yeah, I'd guess you could take some wide angle images as the ads say.
I could shove a cheapo color webcam into the diagonal of one of my RACI finders and get as good, if not a better image. If you read the early publicity literature on this scope, it led people to believe it could be used for astrophotography. This is not the case.
And the fact that until recently they never said $1,299 buys one an SCT version leads me to believe the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. The Meade rep that brought the scope to Woodland Hills where I saw it told me only one version was coming out.
--------------------
Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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CounterWeight
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/05/08
Posts: 1298
Loc: PDX chronoplast
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As originally announced last year I thought wow!, a gadget lovers dream scope (if it materialized as invisioned and promoted). I LOVED my etx125 as a G&G and even took it backpacking a few times. I was thinking that it would be a great scope for my kid, but at that price I got hooked when clock drives were considered awesome. But these days everything it seems for kids (adults too?) needs batteries and display and things to click. But 'if' it made kids/adults interested in the hobby that would be nice, as I've enjoyed it a lot over the years, and think it has a lot to offer. Sometimes more than others.
My thought - somebody found a snag somewhere that would be a show stopper and they are fixing it to best possible. Could be manufacturability, supplier, durability, too many things.
No secret they need it to work, need it to remain 'competitive', need to place it correctly in product line (dark humor - while they have one) and I hope they need NOT to put up Hubble shots of the 'Cone' or 'Saturn' or 'Antenna' when promoting it... (as overpromoting and disappointing intended market - whoever that is)
Although Meade has bet the bank on technology - it in a way can also bite them. Not that many years ago they didn't have to worry about forums such as this one where if they make a lemon - it will be known rapidly all over the place and put the kabosh on sales in a very meaningful way, show up on the Goog and etc... It's a fire that can either cook or burn the food. Here in particular I worry about the whole 'pre-order' soup sandwich. Are they just waiting to get enough to where they could take 'hit' if all is not so well?
Really... the giant Meade? in the past they just announced and put them on the shelf in numbers. Sometimes too many too quick, but they got out the door and to us users. It a bad time to be asking for the money up front.
--------------------
- 
CGE (Frankenmount mod.)
Onyx 80ED, Tak FS-128 #02058, TEC APO160ED #030
CCD: Orion SSPDSCIv2, SSI3, SSAG
diags, ep's, tubes, filters, Binocs
My CN Image Gallery
Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first, and gives the lesson later
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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The more a product relies on electronics, the shorter its lifespan will be. In the US, with the exception of automakers, all companies producing electronic products need only to supply parts for seven years. After that, you're out of luck. I own two 8mm video decks. One a camcorder. The other a full deck. Both are broken. When I tried to have them repaired I was told no parts exist.
I had a wonderful compact shortwave radio made by a major Japanese giant. It went south after 8 years of use. When I took it to have it repaired, turned out they could fix it because it was just a loose wire and not the board. Had it been a board, they couldn't have repaired it. But if I owned say and old tube TV or radio from the 1950s, I could still get it repaired.
The villain in all is is the integrated circuit. Ever since ICs allowed for compact circuitry with very specialized uses for each chip, manufacturers no longer keep making replacement parts available since with new designs coming out all the time, it would be virtually impossible.
I knew this when I bought my Nexstar 6SE. But at least when the circuitry goes south and no parts are available, I can mount the OTA on say an AZ and still use it to view. Not so with the new ETX-LS. It's got wires coming out of the OTA to the circuitry inside the arm. Oh, I guess one could cut them some day when the thing breaks and can't be fixed. But why not just purchase a high quality scope, mount it on something that will last and be done with it?
When I first got into astronomy over two years ago, my first purchase was the Nexstar. It still works fine (knock on wood!), but if I had it all over again I'd have gone with a separate OTA on either an AZ or an EQ mount. Probably a manual EQ or one with a simple RA motor as I have on my CG-4 that carries my 102mm C4-R refractor.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Chris Rowland
sage
Reged: 02/28/05
Posts: 269
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Meade don't sell scopes, they sell dreams.
I never saw anything that suggested that the built in camera could take images through the scope, but people wanted this so they were prepared to believe that it did.
Read the adverts carefully. If they don't specifically say that it does something then it doesn't.
The concept of a self aligning scope isn't at all difficult to implement. The devil is in the details - avoiding aligning on things such as street lights. Or choosing alignment stars that are hidden behind trees and houses. Or in light pollution.
Chris
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Quote:
I never saw anything that suggested that the built in camera could take images through the scope
Oh really?
Check this out:
BUILT-IN IMAGING EXCITEMENT The built-in ECLIPS CCD lets you capture images of your favorite celestial wonders and display them in real-time* or save them to an SD card, with no external computer needed. You can even connect and control another DSI CCD camera and view images on an external monitor or save the images to the SD card or an external computer. Either way, you can start astro-imaging on your first night out!
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Chris Rowland
sage
Reged: 02/28/05
Posts: 269
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No, nothing there saying that images are taken through the main scope.
It's easy to think it can though because that's what you want.
The main purpose of the "imager" is to align the scope and for that it will need a field of several degrees and it's difficult to see how that can be achieved with a 6" F/8 SCT and a webcam sized CCD.
Chris
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
Well, that doesn't diminish the fact that they shouldn't have announced it until all the bugs were worked out. What if they never get them out? Take their My Sky. It was a disaster. I know since I bought one. The latest version still has problems which is why few Meade dealers carry them in stock. Returns are still high. The latest version no longer has the GPS activated. The circuit is still inside, but it's turned off and rightly so because it hardly ever works.
I could shove a cheapo color webcam into the diagonal of one of my RACI finders and get as good, if not a better image. If you read the early publicity literature on this scope, it led people to believe it could be used for astrophotography. This is not the case.
And the fact that until recently they never said $1,299 buys one an SCT version leads me to believe the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. The Meade rep that brought the scope to Woodland Hills where I saw it told me only one version was coming out.
Except we don't know if there _are_ any bugs. It's just as likely they are holding off till the economy improves. Yes, the MySky _was_ something of a disaster, but this telescope looks to be in a whole 'nother class, judgin' by the shots of the gear/motor assembly at NEAF. Does that mean they have it working? No, but neither you nor I know that.
Again, depends on your definition of "astrophotography." The camera does not shoot through the scope, but through its own lens and may be capable of taking interesting wide-field shots. It's primary purpose is alignment, though. As for whether it's as good or better than a cheap webcam, again, we don't know since we don't know the chip or the electronics used. It could be an LPI. It could be a DSI. IOW, let us not condemn the accused before he's even appeared in the dock.
It's pretty clear they will be introducing both versions. That's been in their ads, and they are also reviving standard SCT versions of their other telescopes. Is it worth the extra money to get the ACF aplantic SCT optics? Depends on the user. They are sharper at the field edge due to coma reduction (there is still field curvature). Does it really cost that much extra to slap a parabola on the secondary? No, but it allows Meade to make a little more profit and, one would assume, allows the dealers to do the same. The tiny profit margin has really be a problem for both Meade and Celestron for years. As for the price of 1299? Given all the improvements, that seems fair to me. When all was said and done, that's about what I paid for my ETX125PE a few years back.
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
Really... the giant Meade? in the past they just announced and put them on the shelf in numbers. Sometimes too many too quick, but they got out the door and to us users. It a bad time to be asking for the money up front.
Hardly. Meade has never been anything but a small-medium sized business, though in our little world, I guess they've seemed "giant" by comparison.
Where are they asking for money "up front"? Announcing products way before they are available is nothing new for them. If you've been around for a while, think back to the 16-inch SCT. YEARS.
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
No, nothing there saying that images are taken through the main scope.
It's easy to think it can though because that's what you want.
The main purpose of the "imager" is to align the scope and for that it will need a field of several degrees and it's difficult to see how that can be achieved with a 6" F/8 SCT and a webcam sized CCD.
Chris
It can be achieved by the camera shooting through its own short f/l lens. And we don't know anything about the size of the chip, anyhow.
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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brianb11213
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/25/09
Posts: 2107
Loc: 55.215N 6.554W
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Quote:
It's just as likely they are holding off till the economy improves.
Now what on earth would be the point of that? By the time the economy "improves" the market may well be flooded with cheap Chinese / North Korean / Iranian clones.... If you've done the development work, get selling it ASAP, OK if the market is depressed than maybe sales will be a bit slow for a while - though TBH it doesn't look like the amateur astronomy market is down at all - is everyone spending their redundancy payoffs, or are we all bankers still trying desperately to spend our bonuses?
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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That's nonsense. No one in their right mind holds off an announced product due to the economy. If so, they shouldn't be in business.
The ads for the scope NEVER mentioned two versions until just recently. The Meade rep told me only one version was coming out.
And finally, the ad mentioning photography is misleading. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have so many people inquiring about it. Dealers have told me they were asked repeatedly if the camera could take photos using the scope's optics. Early on, many didn't know. I did because in order to do it, the scope would need an internal flip mirror and that obviously wasn't included.
One more time:
BUILT-IN IMAGING EXCITEMENT
Now most folks would take that to mean the images can be taken using the optics of the scope. Remember, this scope is targeted to the newcomer. Most seasoned amateur astronomers who are well informed would skip it.
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An educated person is one who has learned that information almost always turns out to be at best incomplete and very often false, misleading, fictitious, mendacious - just dead wrong.
Russell Baker
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StarWars
Postmaster
Reged: 11/26/03
Posts: 13807
Loc: CyberSpace
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Starlighter,
Did you order the Blue or Astro tube ETX-LS...
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Sony Digital Media player..
MX 460 earbuds
Celestron 2x Barlow Lens
Orion Collimation Eyepiece
Rigel Quick Finder
Assorted Bino's
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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I'd have a shorter wait going on the AstroPhysics waiting list!
I'm through with gimmicks on just about everything. From now on it's the simple life for me.
Just give me an electronics-free scope and I'll be happy. And one where the company will still be around a few years from now.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Quote:
No, nothing there saying that images are taken through the main scope.
It's easy to think it can though because that's what you want.
The main purpose of the "imager" is to align the scope and for that it will need a field of several degrees and it's difficult to see how that can be achieved with a 6" F/8 SCT and a webcam sized CCD.
Chris
Nonetheless, there must be a lot of confused people out there. This is from Skies Unlimited:
Built-in Imaging?
This appears to be one of those marketing claims that Meade could end up wishing they hadn't made. There are two parts to this story, so read on. Available Meade literature indicates that that you can use one of Meade's Deep Sky Imagers without the need for a supporting PC in the field. That would imply that the supporting software can be hosted by the telescope itself, but you would definitely need an external monitor of some type in order to focus the image. We are going to reserve judgment on these claims until further information or a working demo model arrives from Meade. Nevertheless, this could be viewed as a positive development by those wishing to avoid dragging a laptop computer out into the field in order to perform CCD imaging.
Another claim in the Meade advertising is the built-in ECLIPS CCD lets you capture images of your favorite celestial wonders and display them in real-time on your own monitor. From what we can see this imager does not operate through the telescope optics; it needs a wide field of view in order to find the alignment stars. A recent article in the March issue of Sky & Telescope claims that the camera had a resolution of 640 x 480 pixels with an eight degree field of view. This means that the resulting image scale would have to be quite small. We are going to reserve judgment on these claims until further information or a working demo model arrives from Meade.
Or how about this?:
The Meade ETX-LS telescope includes the built-in ECLIPS™ CCD Camera, able to capture and display images right at the scope - or store for later use!
That's still on a dealer's website.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Quote:
Starlighter,
Did you order the Blue or Astro tube ETX-LS...
I heard for the girls, a special version will be coming out with the OTA painted in pink.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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CounterWeight
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 10/05/08
Posts: 1298
Loc: PDX chronoplast
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Rod,
Sorry if I mis-spoke, didn't know that about the 16"ers'... I've been in their minor league only by comprison. Largest have owned was a 12"er, and that for not a real long time.
I guess it's not just a bad time for Meade to ask folks to 'pre-order', I think esp in their case (non-newbies) folks may be a bit wary of what exactly ends up in the box. I would be, not at all in the same way as with one of Yuri's new TEC 110's..
I can only wish about the 12" and above nowadays... I'd need a new body to go along with gear so I could get it out for use and then back in for safety / storage. But I do dream about a nice fat SCT light bucket in my own observatory some day - at least until they begin to tax dreams that is...
I'll add that pink or not, if it does everything they say it will, I will be buying one for my daughter after they are out for a year or so... but then I'd also worry about metal things turning to plastic to increase margins.
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-
CGE (Frankenmount mod.)
Onyx 80ED, Tak FS-128 #02058, TEC APO160ED #030
CCD: Orion SSPDSCIv2, SSI3, SSAG
diags, ep's, tubes, filters, Binocs
My CN Image Gallery
Experience is a difficult teacher, it gives the test first, and gives the lesson later
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
That's nonsense. No one in their right mind holds off an announced product due to the economy. If so, they shouldn't be in business.
The ads for the scope NEVER mentioned two versions until just recently. The Meade rep told me only one version was coming out.
And finally, the ad mentioning photography is misleading.
Nonsense - Shmonsense. People do hold off on new product introductions because of the economy, and besides that, you don't know pea turkey about Meade's reasons--anymore than _I_ do.
Who says Meade isn't allowed to introduce/change options?
As I've stated in the past Meade's "imaging" hype is a bit misleading; you're not wrong about that. OTOH, nowhere in the product literature does it state the camera shoots through the scope, and recent ads make the limited capabilities of the camera clearer. If this little cam can make halfway decent piggyback-style color images, most newbies will be thrilled, frankly. Most old hands are going to be aware that you will not get an ST2000 built into a 1300 hundred dollar SCT. Alas.
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
Edited by rmollise (05/19/09 09:00 AM)
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
I heard for the girls, a special version will be coming out with the OTA painted in pink.
You might be interested to hear, then, that the ubiquitous Short Tube 80 clones on eBay (SILVER TUBE! WHITE TUBE!) are now available in pink as well. No foolin'.
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
I'll add that pink or not, if it does everything they say it will, I will be buying one for my daughter after they are out for a year or so... but then I'd also worry about metal things turning to plastic to increase margins.
Me? If I didn't love my ETX125 so much, I might jump on one; especially if the quality of the drives as shown at NEAF is for real in production. I don't think I can give up Charity Hope Valentine's MCT optics, though.
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Quote:
Quote:
That's nonsense. No one in their right mind holds off an announced product due to the economy. If so, they shouldn't be in business.
The ads for the scope NEVER mentioned two versions until just recently. The Meade rep told me only one version was coming out.
And finally, the ad mentioning photography is misleading.
Nonsense - Shmonsense. People do hold off on new product introductions because of the economy, and besides that, you don't know pea turkey about Meade's reasons--anymore than _I_ do.
Who says Meade isn't allowed to introduce/change options?
As I've stated in the past Meade's "imaging" hype is a bit misleading; you're not wrong about that. OTOH, nowhere in the product literature does it state the camera shoots through the scope, and recent ads make the limited capabilities of the camera clearer. If this little cam can make halfway decent piggyback-style color images, most newbies will be thrilled, frankly. Most old hands are going to be aware that you will not get an ST2000 built into a 1300 hundred dollar SCT. Alas.
You're right. No one except those inside Meade know what's causing the holdup in delivery. But If I was going to wager money on it, I'd say it's due to production problems, not a decision to hold up sales until the economy looks rosier.
Announcing a product, building up hype and then deciding due to a less than vigorous economy to hold back is bad business. Period. End of argument on that one.
As for Meade's claim on imaging - yes, they never said it images through the scope, but they did say "Built-in Imaging" which for most people would mean it does image thought the lens of the OTA. If not, why so much confusion out there? And believe me there has been quite a lot of it. If you go back and check, there have been questions by people right here on CN regarding that very issue. People who thought it imaged through the scope. At first, dealers thought it imaged through the scope. I was at one Meade dealer and was told by a salesman he thought it would image through the scope so I showed him how that wasn't the case.
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“Confusion now hath made his masterpiece!” - William Shakespeare
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Quote:
Who says Meade isn't allowed to introduce/change options?
We're not talking about not being allowed. Free enterprise is just that. What I'm saying is it's not exactly good business practice to announce a radical new product, listing a specific price for an ACF model and then later on deciding - no, that price buys one an SCT version. You want the ACF, cough up $200 more.
Very bad.
I was an exec with a major corporation for nearly twenty years. Had I ever pulled stuff like that, I'd have been out on my ear.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
[As for Meade's claim on imaging - yes, they never said it images through the scope, but they did say "Built-in Imaging" which for most people would mean it does image thought the lens of the OTA. If not, why so much confusion out there? And believe me there has been quite a lot of
I AGREED Meade's imaging hype was misleading. What more do you want me to say?
I for one will wait until the scope is available and THEN decide whether or not to dang Meade to heck!
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
Quote:
Who says Meade isn't allowed to introduce/change options?
We're not talking about not being allowed. Free enterprise is just that. What I'm saying is it's not exactly good business practice to announce a radical new product, listing a specific price for an ACF model and then later on deciding - no, that price buys one an SCT version. You want the ACF, cough up $200 more.
If it's not good business practice, Meade will pay for it. If it is good business practice, they will profit from it. Normally, giving customers more choices is considered a good thing.
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Not when a company has announced for many months that $1,299 buys one an ACF version, then changes their mind and says, "No. You want the ACF, it'll cost you additional dollars."
Imagine General Motors announcing a new hybrid that runs on water and for a specific price. Then after several months they say, "no, it doesn't run on water - at least not for that low price. If you want that model it will cost you an extra ten grand. The one at the lower price we've advertised as running on water, actually runs on gasoline. But it gets almost as good milage!"
But then GM has made many poor decisions which is why it's sinking fast.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Quote:
Quote:
[As for Meade's claim on imaging - yes, they never said it images through the scope, but they did say "Built-in Imaging" which for most people would mean it does image thought the lens of the OTA. If not, why so much confusion out there? And believe me there has been quite a lot of
I AGREED Meade's imaging hype was misleading. What more do you want me to say?
That's all I suggested. It was misleading and that's a bad business practice. True, they never said one can image through the OTA. But by the way they carefully worded it, the notion was planted to make people think it could be done in such a manner.
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Advertising is legalized lying. - H.G. Wells
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 13439
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Who says Meade isn't allowed to introduce/change options?
We're not talking about not being allowed. Free enterprise is just that. What I'm saying is it's not exactly good business practice to announce a radical new product, listing a specific price for an ACF model and then later on deciding - no, that price buys one an SCT version. You want the ACF, cough up $200 more.
If it's not good business practice, Meade will pay for it. If it is good business practice, they will profit from it. Normally, giving customers more choices is considered a good thing.
I guess Meade is relying on the fine print, which usually sez "prices and specifications are subject to change without notice."
If they offered the ETX-LS ACF for $1299 and the SCT version for $1099, mebbe that would make customers happier (but Meade's accountants less joyous).
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Now that would have been a sound business decision. No question about it. And I'm sure by doing that, Meade would sell more scopes.
I'm amazed at some of the business practices that go on today. It's as few in business one took basic courses in common sense.
The way to become successful at anything and more importantly, maintain that success is to treat customer with the upmost respect. Never, ever mislead them. And never announce a product at a specific price and then backtrack by saying the price advertised all along is wrong, that it doesn't buy one the same product as advertised.
It makes me wonder just what's going on inside Meade.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
The way to become successful at anything and more importantly, maintain that success is to treat customer with the upmost respect. Never, ever mislead them. And never announce a product at a specific price and then backtrack by saying the price advertised all along is wrong, that it doesn't buy one the same product as advertised.
It makes me wonder just what's going on inside Meade.
I would say, then, "Don't buy a Meade LS." If enough people share your opinion of Meade, the scope and maybe the company will fail. If enough of us decide the Meade LS is an excellent value at the prices asked, it will succeed. It is as simple as that.
The truth of the matter is that because of the situation--two similar companies competing for a very small market--Meade and Celestron telescope prices have been way too LOW for a long time. That has affected not only quality, but the companies' ability to keep their production in the U.S., and the introduction of new gear.
--------------------
Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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What will sink Meade is not public attitude, but how well this last ditch effort performs. If it's the best invention since sliced bread it will resurrect the company. If it's filled with bugs and is anything like their My Sky turned out to be, they will go belly up. And that would be sad since it was Meade and Celestron that used to make products that were cutting edge as well as beautifully manufactured. Both companies were responsible for attracting many into this fascinating hobby. I hope the ETX-LS works as advertised. And I hope they think twice before announcing something new at a specific price only to change it later on in an effort to make more money. After all, it was Meade that announced publicly it would no longer manufacture conventional SCTs. The Meade dealer I spoke with told me everything in their catadioptric line would be ACFs. Obviously he wasn't in the loop as to what was the real plan happened to be.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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brianb11213
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 02/25/09
Posts: 2107
Loc: 55.215N 6.554W
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Quote:
The truth of the matter is that because of the situation--two similar companies competing for a very small market--Meade and Celestron telescope prices have been way too LOW for a long time. That has affected not only quality, but the companies' ability to keep their production in the U.S., and the introduction of new gear.
Fair point, but do you really think that if one of the companies went belly up, the other's quality would improve & that the production would relocate to the USA?
There are small companies who are selling really good quality products and doing serious innovation too - look at Orion Optics (UK) who seem to be thriving despite prices which are considerably higher than the Big Two. The real problem is that Joe Schlobb just doesn't realize that the cheapest is not necessarily the best, or even the best value. But - despite, or maybe even because of, the economic situation - there are still enough people around who are prepared to pay for quality.
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wfj
sage
Reged: 01/10/08
Posts: 259
Loc: California, Santa Cruz County
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You pre announce a product simply to get a read on how well the product might be received - how many/much will be sold, what kind of dealer interest occurs, whether a big box retailer might want an exclusive on it, etc.
Initial prices, options, and alternate configurations allow them to understand which segments of their market are intrigued. The choice of SCT or ACF is to decide whether the premium audience or the "value priced" audience dominates.
If I were to guess, the product concept started out as a scope that you pulled out of the box, stuffed with batteries, put outside, flipped the switch, and it would all by itself figure out the sky, beep, and then prompt you with Tonight's Best , where upon it would lead you on a tour of a dozen neat things - "no brainer".
That's a tough project to bring off - so I'm sure the product testing would "go long".
But for the product marketing group (I've done this for a living), also a challenge - who would desire this most? How many of them at what price point?
My guess is that the feedback/survey's/focus groups gave them back chaotic results - so they tried changing the product message a bit (imaging) to discover how much a market existed for nascent imagers stopped by basic scope mechanics - a potentially lucerative market (remember visual starters take a while before becoming adicted to expensive EPs and filters).
I think the product got a lot of excitement (probably useful to go back to finance types to buy more time before the company goes on the chopping/shopping block).
But what do you do with it? You're sure to be beat up with customer support, because for the price point you'll have to have many compromises, and that leads to breakage / frustration / misuse / confusion.
You know, I've been on both sides here, and I think its hard both ways. You can make things 98% bullet proof and then lose out to your rival who only does 70%, because yours proves 98% is possible, his proves the lower price is possible, and so nobody buys yours, everyone buys his, and then they all complain demanding the 98% from him ...
My expectation is that Meade will continue to probe the market with the ETX-LS but may not ever deliver it. They may take parts of the concept into lower/higher end products as they feel it revitalizes them. They may still offer the ETX-LS, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't modified from what we've seen.
If you presume an ETX-125 "big brother", the ACF approach positions it as a better than Mak optics (not that it is necessarily), so you'd be getting people priced out of the bigger SCT market but wanting the no brainer out of the box wow experience - going for price point not volume.
If the issue is bigger ETX alone, then standard SCT optics tries to reconfigure the ETX line as a entry level SCT, allowing you to reduce the number of lines you are supporting. In this case, the "no brainer" aspect is meant to bootstrap serious telescope interest alone, and you don't need the wow - going for volume not price point.
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Fact. Meade announced the scope as an ACF for $1,299. No mention that it only buys an SCT version. Not until much later.
Fact: Meade publicly announced that it was ending the manufacturing of basic SCTs to focus on ACF versions.
Fact: They mislead a lot of people by implying one could do serious imaging with it.
Fact: It was first promised by March. That led to April, then to May and now the end of the year. Maybe.
Meade has issues with the manufacturing or they'd have it at dealers. They don't gain a thing by holding it back.
Now, if I ran the company and someone came to me saying a great idea would be a scope that one only needs to flip a switch and it will self-align itself, I wouldn't announce it until the prototype worked and worked well enough that I knew once into production, there wouldn't be lots of returns.
I collect model trains and most manufacturers like Lionel and MTH announce a slew of new engines and rolling stock in their latest catalogues, only to never manufacture many of them. They wait to see what the response will be. That works with that sort of merchandise, but that manner of doing business doesn't lend itself to the scope business.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
What will sink Meade is not public attitude, but how well this last ditch effort performs. If it's the best invention since sliced bread it will resurrect the company. If it's filled with bugs and is anything like their My Sky turned out to be, they will go belly up. And that would be sad since it was Meade and Celestron that used to make products that were cutting edge as well as beautifully manufactured. Both companies were responsible for attracting many into this fascinating hobby. I hope the ETX-LS works as advertised. And I hope they think twice before announcing something new at a specific price only to change it later on in an effort to make more money. After all, it was Meade that announced publicly it would no longer manufacture conventional SCTs. The Meade dealer I spoke with told me everything in their catadioptric line would be ACFs. Obviously he wasn't in the loop as to what was the real plan happened to be.
The plan changed when the management of the company changed rececently. IMHO, ACF SCT/Standard SCT does give the buyer more choices and prices, and I think that is a good thing, not a bad one.
Meade and Celestron are still both cutting edge. How about SkyAlign? There's also the SkyScout. You didn't think the Meade RCX-400 was innovative? Meade took quite a leap and quite a chance with a truly innovative SCT that gave users a lot of what they'd been asking for for years. Unfortunately, the RCX conincided with the company's financial problems and the end of U.S. telescope production, and the scope was a victim of that turmoil. Still, I salute them for taking the chance at all.
Meade and Celestron still produce quality scopes, but their telescopes have NEVER been top tier as far as build quality. Not since the Blue and White Celestron days. How could they be given the miniscule prices they've been selling them for, especially over the last two decades?
I think I've drifted away from "ETX," though. My last words? If I were in the market for a small CAT, and the ETX LS appears to live up to its advance billing, I would jump on one in a heartbeat. It's for everybody to decide for themselves whether they think the LS--or any Meade scope--will live up to their expectations. Me? I _believe_ Meade's fortunes are now on the upswing.
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
Fair point, but do you really think that if one of the companies went belly up, the other's quality would improve & that the production would relocate to the USA?
There are small companies who are selling really good quality products and doing serious innovation too - look at Orion Optics (UK) who seem to be thriving despite prices which are considerably higher than the Big Two. The real problem is that Joe Schlobb just doesn't realize that the cheapest is not necessarily the best, or even the best value. But - despite, or maybe even because of, the economic situation - there are still enough people around who are prepared to pay for quality.
I don't know, since that has not happened and is not likely to happen now. Too much water under the bridge. As you may know, Celestron is no longer U.S. owned anyway, but a subsidiary of the Chinese firm (Taiwan) Synta. I think it unlikely they would move all their production back to the U.S. (some is still here). What would be the advantage for them?
OTOH, this might have been a possibility if the companies had been allowed to merge as they wanted to do either in the 80s or early 90s (the government said "no" both times).
Orion optics is OK, but they are a much simpler operation than either Meade or Celestron. They only produce OTAs, not mounts. Frankly, Orion UK tends to prove my point, as they have no competitor selling exactly what they are selling, you see.
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
My expectation is that Meade will continue to probe the market with the ETX-LS but may not ever deliver it. They may take parts of the concept into lower/higher end products as they feel it revitalizes them. They may still offer the ETX-LS, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't modified from what we've seen.
I think this is a possibility, though I HOPE we really do get the LS to play with. I be surer of the LS if Meade discontinued the ETX 125, at least, but from what I can tell it is still in production...
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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Once they do start selling them, I seriously doubt the production ETX-LS will look like the prototype I saw at Woodland Hills camera. That one was overbuilt. Like a tank! I was amazed at how heavy just the arm and the OTA were. Over 30 lbs. Add the tripod and I suspect we're closer to 40 lbs. Also, there were things that I could see that could be problematic. A speaker appears to be mounted at the bottom facing up. What happens when dew gets into it? Although it's designed to show a visual image of what's being viewed along with an audio commentary, one will need to by a small LCD color monitor and attach it somehow to the mount.
But the biggest change will be the cheapening of the mount. I seriously doubt that even selling at $1,499, Meade can make a decent profit if they build them just like the prototype. But I could be wrong. If it does come out and it works as advertised and it appears to have the same high level of build quality, I'll be tempted to get one.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Mike Cook
member
Reged: 07/13/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Moncton NB (Cloud Central)
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From what I saw in some online NEAF 2009 photos, the fork seems to be built of cast aluminum. I imagine any retooling would be costly, so perhaps that part of the system will remain the same. It is quite a complex melding of components and electronics; I really am hoping everything will work once it becomes available and people begin to use them in the real world. I do imagine, if they have the foresight, they will install a polyethylene speaker cone in there like the typical outdoor all weather patio speakers. Eventually the world will really know I guess!
Michael C
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Meade ETX125PE Maksutov
Meade series 5000 80mm triplet on AT Voyager alt-az
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sandflea
newbie
Reged: 11/19/08
Posts: 3
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Whether Meade has run into technical production issues, or they've decided to re-brand this technology - both are bad business in my opinion. I don't think Meade would have had all of their sellers taking pre-orders last year if they really thought it would take this long to bring to market.
Unfortunately, as you can probably tell from all of the debate on this forum - many are already confused, irritated, annoyed and dissapointed. This BEFORE any of us has even used the scope! In a nutshell: A Marketing Disaster. It would have to steam shirmp and knit sweaters for some to accept it now...
2 cents.
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 13439
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Just to put some historical perspective on this...
I worked at a Meade dealership from 1980 until 1990.
Since then, have kept a pretty close eye on new products-- when they first get announced and when they actually arrive.
Re. just about every new Meade scope, they never make their predicted launch date. Not one.
So, what's happening with the ETX-LS is by far the most typical scenario. It was supposed to ship earlier this year.
Six months delay (or more) is entirely normal.... for Meade.
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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No wonder their stock is now at $.19 per share.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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Joe Lalumia
Post Laureate
Reged: 01/24/07
Posts: 3608
Loc: Rockwall, Texas, USA
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This week I had the opportunity to call Meade's customer service-- both reps were very knowledgeable -- I will create a new post in a minute about what I was told on the phone about the LX200 Classic- ! and repairs-- ! Post is located in the LX forum-
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LX90 8" LNT, SV Nighthawk & TelePOD, SV 80/9D & M4 mount, ETX 90, Orion XT10i, 20x80 binoculars, SV-BV3s-- www.texasastro.org
"Great minds discuss ideas;Average minds discuss events;Small minds discuss people." Unknown
Edited by Joe Lalumia (05/20/09 06:13 PM)
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Chris Rowland
sage
Reged: 02/28/05
Posts: 269
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If anyone who's interested in getting the LS is going to RTMC then ask Meade if they can show it working. By working I mean doing the automatic alignment.
It should be just about perfect conditions - dark sky, no moon, no planets.
It will also be interesting to see images produced by the built in imager.
Chris
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AlexDJ30
sage
Reged: 09/02/08
Posts: 276
Loc: Monterrey, Mexico
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I guess the ETX-LS is a good idea, on the wrong times and bad implemented. Meade is strugling right now, this great peace of gear looks OK..but for my taste its too much technology and a high cost.
I still have my ETx-125..but have lots of problems now..is not fuctional (about 4 years old)...and its hard to find somebody to repair it in mexico for a hundreds of dollars... amost buying a new one would be better i think.
Hope meade does fine.but i know that they hype their products and they deliver small things...
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Equipment:
- ETX 125 AT
- C6 ASGT
- WO 66mm SD
- 2.5X ED Barlow, 8-24mm Zoom Eyepice
- Canon EOS Rebel XSi
- Celestron Nextimagen
- Orion Starshoot CCD cam
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Arthur Dent
Galactic Hitch-Hiker
Reged: 10/23/08
Posts: 1182
Loc: South Yorkshire, UK
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Maybe this is symptomatic of Meade's problems, but the RA drive on my ETX-105 keeps burning out (or at least a driver chip does).
I got my ETX back today for the FOURTH time since January  It has spent more time in Telescope Hospital than it has at home waiting for the clouds to clear.
So, either there is a basic fault with my scope (which keeps stressing the RA drive) OR Meade's QC is pants (and they keep supplying duff parts).
I wonder how long it will work for THIS time. So far I've tested it out this afternoon and it worked faultlessly for 3 mins!
Will it work the next time I turn it on? Who knows!
Art
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If I like it, the wife says that we can't afford it!
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Meade ETX105 (a nice "Grab & Go" scope) & Celestron NexStar 6SE with Bob's Knobs.
Various EP's from 6mm to 26mm, Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Zoom, a 2x Barlow, 2" diagonal and 7Ah PowerTank.
MRF and Antares 8x50 RACI finder scope - both for the 6SE's OTA, whilst the ETX gets a plain RDF.
Canon EOS 400D DSLR (un-modded) and SPC900 webcam. Finally climbing the AP Learning Curve!
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nikolas
newbie
Reged: 11/26/08
Posts: 1
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in meade homepage it states that ETX-LX "is now shipping"
WOW
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Arthur Dent
Galactic Hitch-Hiker
Reged: 10/23/08
Posts: 1182
Loc: South Yorkshire, UK
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Hi Nikolas,
Thanks for the post. Welcome to Cloudy Nights and the ETX forum in particular.
Are you sure that it isn't a typo "New ETX-LS NOW SLIPPING"
Still lists the ACF and SCT versions (at $1499 and $1299 resprctively) though.
Art
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If I like it, the wife says that we can't afford it!
=======================================================
Meade ETX105 (a nice "Grab & Go" scope) & Celestron NexStar 6SE with Bob's Knobs.
Various EP's from 6mm to 26mm, Baader Hyperion 8-24mm Zoom, a 2x Barlow, 2" diagonal and 7Ah PowerTank.
MRF and Antares 8x50 RACI finder scope - both for the 6SE's OTA, whilst the ETX gets a plain RDF.
Canon EOS 400D DSLR (un-modded) and SPC900 webcam. Finally climbing the AP Learning Curve!
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rmollise
Post Laureate
Reged: 07/06/07
Posts: 4575
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Quote:
in meade homepage it states that ETX-LX "is now shipping"
WOW
I can't say more other than, YES, that does appear to be the case.
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Uncle Rod
Rod's New Book:
Choosing and Using a New CAT
Available now!
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 13439
Loc: Oort Cloud
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I've heard from a dealer that the ETX-LS is on it's way from Meade. Should be arriving at his shop by June 1st.
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife, two curious cats and one sadly departed.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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AlexDJ30
sage
Reged: 09/02/08
Posts: 276
Loc: Monterrey, Mexico
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and I hear martians are coming too..one day LOL
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Equipment:
- ETX 125 AT
- C6 ASGT
- WO 66mm SD
- 2.5X ED Barlow, 8-24mm Zoom Eyepice
- Canon EOS Rebel XSi
- Celestron Nextimagen
- Orion Starshoot CCD cam
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Starlighter
Post Laureate
Reged: 08/03/07
Posts: 4494
Loc: Sunny California
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The Martians already came. Figuring we humans weren't up to their standards, they moved on, but I hear they left a few goodies, one of them being the ETX-LS. Only I wonder if it's a sort of Trojan Horse. You never know.
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Celestron C4-R 102mm achromat
Celeston Nexstar 6SE SCT
Meade 80mm APO Triplet
Televue NP-101
Televue TV-85
Vixen A70Lf
Vixen A80Mf
William Optics 66mm Zenithstar Patriot
Celestron CG4 EQ mount
Orion Skyview Pro AZ mount
Vixen Portamount
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