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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
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Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4216
Loc: Bosham, UK
To Ethos, or not to Ethos...
      #2550458 - 07/30/08 01:50 PM

Hello folks. Yet another Ethos thread, but i'd appreciate your views.

I have enough $$$ to buy an Ethos ... or several other eyepieces. My current collection is very depleted at the moment, consisting of a 20mm T5 Nagler (which I love) and 5mm Pentax XW (ditto), plus an AP BARCON 1.7x barlow and a couple of TV Plossls. Telescopes are an AP 130EDT f/8 plus an 80ED for occasional portable use, and I have plans for a 10" - 16" Dob, most probably a 12", in the next 6-12 months. Interests are deep sky and lunar/planetary in equal measure.

Option one is to buy the 13mm Ethos and BARCON it. The end.

Option two is to spend the money on several used eyepieces. I quite like the 20mm + BARCON for an effective 13mm, so wonder if I should do something like add a couple of XWs to the collection or maybe a T6 or two. I'm thinking maybe a 3.5mm XW (for a high-power pair with the 5mm) and maybe a 9mm T6. Or ... or ...

At this point I hit paralysis by analysis, so your help please!

edit: probably worth adding that i'm quite fussy about eyepieces, so i'm really thinking TeleVue or Pentax level or very close. Things like the Hyperions, although great value, don't quite do it for me.

--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire/TeleVue 60is/Astro-Physics 1200GTO/SBIG ST-4000XCM
80ED/HEQ5Pro, lots of other stuff...


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Mike K
sage
*****

Reged: 04/01/07
Posts: 387
Loc: Central Texas
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Ben Ritchie]
      #2550530 - 07/30/08 02:34 PM

Hi Ben,
I love the 20mm T5 too. Fantastic EP!

As for the Ethos, if you have the $$$, go ahead and jump in. You won't be sorry. You might consider the 8mm though, as it would fall about half way between your 20mm and 5mm EPs in FOV. The 8mm is my favorite eyepiece in my TMB-92SS refractor.

--------------------
Clear skies,
Mike K.

30°31" N 97°44" W, LP: Red
Observe: Once or twice a week back yard, once a month under dark skies, usually alone
Favorites: Globulars, planets, face-on spirals
Equipment: CPC925/XT10i/TMB-92SS/PST


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FirstSight
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/26/05
Posts: 2359
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Ben Ritchie]
      #2550532 - 07/30/08 02:35 PM

Ben:

Go ahead, make the plunge for the 13 Ethos. You will get far more pleasure and use out of this one eyepiece than you could from any two, three, or even four others, including T6s (of which I have five in an inclusive progression from 13T6 through 5T6). I say this as someone who still gets great use and enjoyment (and has no plans to get rid of any of) my T6s now that I have an Ethos. They're great - but the Ethos is simply a quantum jump even better IMHO, and if I was indeed ever forced to choose between (any or all of) them or the 13E, it would be the 13E hands down without hesitation.

This is ESPECIALLY true since you describe yourself as "fussy" about eyepieces - the 13E is the no-compromise state of the art. About the only issue I can think of is that to some people's eyes, the eye relief in the Ethos seems a bit tight, although IMHO a significant proportion of people perceiving this issue may be struggling with adjusting to not being able to easily see the field stop (and hence can't get a good sense of where to place the eye to take in the entire FOV as they are used to in other eyepieces). To my tastes, however, with the eyecup rolled down so that I can snuggle close enough to make the field stop disappear from my view nearly altogether, produces an amazing unbounded "floating in space" sensation such as only the 31T5 among 82-degree eyepieces comes anywhere close to also giving.

--------------------
Chris M., aka "First Sight"
Orion XT12i Dob with Moonlite CR-2 focuser
WO Megrez 90 refractor on UniStar Light mount
Nikon 10x50 Binoculars


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Photoner
sage


Reged: 12/06/06
Posts: 327
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: FirstSight]
      #2550581 - 07/30/08 02:59 PM

I wasn't sure whether or not the ER would work well with my glasses but I ordered the 13E anyway as the best investment let alone a great eyepiece. Getting the magnification close to the 12.5T4 plus the field of the 17 in a one eyepiece experience is quite a development. I decided that the used market for the 13E would remain more robust over the used T4 17 & 12.5 should I want to sell out later.

Result:

ER is fine for my prescription (just makes it) = great view
13E + TV Big Barlow = great view
13E + TV 4x Powermate = great view
Smile on face = huge!
Cost = Don't care anymore!
About selling it: No Way!

--------------------
40
50x2,70x2,100x2
60,80,90,120,125,200,317


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DeepSpaceTour
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 2942
Loc: In the dark and"WAY"out there!
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Ben Ritchie]
      #2550609 - 07/30/08 03:10 PM Attachment (25 downloads)

Ben;

I have been there, and done that, after owning XW's, T-4's,T-6's,Tak LE,and more.I have come to this perfect eyepiece barlow arrangement that works perfectly in both my 17.5" F/5 Discovery dob and my Antares 152 F/6.5 refractor,and leaves me wanting no more eyepiece F/L's or FOV ranges these four have it covered,and covered magnificently....

--------------------
-------------------------
Bill
-17.5"F/5 Discovery"Truss" Dob/Dob driver/ArgoNavis
Kendrick dew control/Obsession Alt bearings
-Orion 4.5" StarBlast "SOLD" waiting for the 6"
-Antares 152-F/6.5 refractor on HEQ-5 Pro
-15x70 Binocs
-Collimating tools "LOTS"
- TV ep's *8-Ethos*13-Ethos*26T-5*31T-5*
- 2" Barlows
- Pelican1600


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Jeff Morgan
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 1409
Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: DeepSpaceTour]
      #2550703 - 07/30/08 03:57 PM

Nice collection Bill. What caught my eye was you have both the 31 and 26 Naglers. I use the 31N primarily as a finder eyepiece, then jump right to a 17N. The thought had occurred to me that the 26N could be used in the same role albeit with a slightly smaller field. How do you use the pair?

--------------------
Jeff Morgan
Prescott, AZ
Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making


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Rick Woods
Post Laureate
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Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 3978
Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: DeepSpaceTour]
      #2550706 - 07/30/08 03:58 PM

Show-off!

--------------------
- Rick
14" LX200GPS
8" Meade 826C


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hoof
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 1380
Loc: San Rafael, CA
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #2550794 - 07/30/08 04:35 PM

Yeah, I'm curious about the 26/31 thing too. They're so close, do you have the 26mm for weight reasons? Why not simply jump to 31mm, what does the 26mm give you that justifies it's place in your lineup?

--------------------
Jonathan Hoof
15" F/4.14 Discovery Truss
8" F/5.9 Orion XT8i
4.5" F/4 Orion Starblast
80mm F/7.5 Orion 80ED
18x50 IS Canon binoculars


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Tom TrusockAdministrator

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Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 26367
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: hoof]
      #2550886 - 07/30/08 05:16 PM

Quote:

Yeah, I'm curious about the 26/31 thing too. They're so close, do you have the 26mm for weight reasons? Why not simply jump to 31mm, what does the 26mm give you that justifies it's place in your lineup?




I've got both here as well.

I see it as better optimized exit pupil for some scopes vs maximum tfov.

T


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Nick Lloyd
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/24/06
Posts: 1553
Loc: cincinnati
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Tom Trusock]
      #2550984 - 07/30/08 06:04 PM

Ben Ritchie- have you looked through an Ethos?

--------------------
"The best scope is the one you use." -rcg




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bcuddihee
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 11/04/06
Posts: 832
Loc: Cincinnati Ohio
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Nick Lloyd]
      #2551134 - 07/30/08 07:19 PM

Here is a very subjective and not at aqll scientific opinion. I got to view through an 13 ethos a few nights ago and have to say that it wasn't the FOV that impressed me so much, although it was nice to see objects framed better than a conventional SWA, it was the transmission that impressed me the most. Using it an a SCT I assumed edge correction was going to be good..even my Agena 26 barlowed gives me a nice image at the edge..but viewing M13 through this ep was impressive. I believe I saw a brighter imaqe with the ethos than I did with any of my other ep's. Quite remarkable. Later, comparing the views through my denks with TV15'S and the ethos on Jupiter..the ethos had a much brighter image but the combination of the denks and the TV'S provided more contrast. I was able to see more detail with the plossls perhaps because their warmer coatings were working in my favor on a bright object such as Jupiter. I also realize that the denks were putting up a view that was not as bright as mono viewing with the ethos perhaps also making detail a bit easier to see. All in all..if I wasn't a confirmed bino nut case, I'd be saving up for one...perhaps slightly used.
BC

--------------------
B Cuddihee
--------------------------
1968 Jason Empire 60X700mm refractor (my buddy from way back)
Celestron Nexstar 8SE with Feathertouch
Microfocuser (a remarkable 8" grab and go)
Stellarvue 50mm "Sparrowhawk" finder
Denk bino's with Power x switch
Pair of 28 RKE's
Pair of Smart Astronomy 19 EF's
Pair of 20 TV plossls
Pair of 15 TV plossls
Pair of 15 Garrett SWA's
7mm UO HD Orthoscopic
Agena 38 SWA
Agena 26 SWA
Garrett 2" 2x ED Barlow


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Doug Murphy
journeyman


Reged: 10/07/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Leesburg, VA
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: bcuddihee]
      #2551205 - 07/30/08 07:55 PM

Ben, the 13 Ethos is a beautiful eyepiece with very high brilliance and contrast. On my 18UC I use it for almost all of my DSO viewing. It's as bright as my 16mm Brandon with only 2 doublet elements. It's so nice, why use anything else? Doug Murphy

--------------------
Doug Murphy


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hoof
Pooh-Bah
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Reged: 04/07/05
Posts: 1380
Loc: San Rafael, CA
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Tom Trusock]
      #2551270 - 07/30/08 08:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah, I'm curious about the 26/31 thing too. They're so close, do you have the 26mm for weight reasons? Why not simply jump to 31mm, what does the 26mm give you that justifies it's place in your lineup?




I've got both here as well.

I see it as better optimized exit pupil for some scopes vs maximum tfov.

T




Have you actually observed a difference? Have you ever had an experience where the view was actually better in the 26mm vs 31mm? I'm curious, because when you're close to your eye's pupil size, eye placement is *crucial*, otherwise you'll wander off of the sweet spot (it only takes a millimeter or so of drift), and thus are no better than you would be with the larger exit pupil eyepiece unless you can keep the eye right on target.

I'd love to hear more about your observations of 26mm vs 31mm. Sure I know about the theoretical benefits, but was the 31mm actually dimmer? Did you see the secondary shadow easier in the 31mm? Did the stars look less pinpoint in the 31mm? I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm actually curious if there is a visible difference.

--------------------
Jonathan Hoof
15" F/4.14 Discovery Truss
8" F/5.9 Orion XT8i
4.5" F/4 Orion Starblast
80mm F/7.5 Orion 80ED
18x50 IS Canon binoculars


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John Huntley
super member


Reged: 07/16/06
Posts: 128
Loc: South West England
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: hoof]
      #2551376 - 07/30/08 09:19 PM

Hi Ben from another UK astronomer who is teetering on the brink of being able to afford an Ethos.

My advice would be to go for an Ethos. I've not used one personally but I can recall having the same reservations about my 1st Nagler and now I have 4 of them and a 24 Panoptic and I don't regret one penny of the investment.

The Ethos is clearly a significant development in eyepieces and I for one want to try one out 1st hand at the earliest opportunity.

Someone once said that you will never regret buying quality and from my personal experience, where eyepieces are concerned, I feel that they were right.

If you can afford it, go for it

John

--------------------
Vixen ED102SS F/6.5 Refractor
Skywatcher 203mm F/5.9 Dobsonian
Vixen Portamount
Panoptic: 24mm
Naglers: 31mm T5, 13mm T6, 9mm T6, 7mm T6, 4.8mm T1
William Optics UWAN 16mm
Powermate 2.5x
Celestron Ultima 2x Barlow
Revelation 2.0" Dielectric Diagonal


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CESDewar
GorillAstronomer
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Reged: 01/16/05
Posts: 1695
Loc: Morganton, GA, USA
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: John Huntley]
      #2551466 - 07/30/08 10:09 PM

Ethos - go for it.

Yes, it's horribly expensive. But of all the purchases I've made in the past two years, this alone has produced the largest WOW factor. It is indeed worth the price of admission.

The 8 & 13mm Ethos now account for 90% of my observing in all my scopes - it is that good. It's not just the wide field (which alone would make it worthwhile) - it is the superb contrast and central sharpness. For me one of the clinchers (as if I needed another one) was two nights ago under good (but not superb seeing), when my new TMB92SS scope showed a clear split of Epsilon Lyrae at just 64x. It takes truly superb optics to do that and while the TMB92SS scope is great, it was the addition of a truly fine EP that confirmed that split.

You may express pain from time to time at spending that much money, but I guarantee the grin that comes over your face when you first look through it will mitigate any guilt or pain.

One final caveat - not everyone can take in the full FOV - and if you are one of those people, then this whole issue needs to be rethought - the appearance of the Ethos may put several fine 82° 13mm Naglers on the market which would be an equally fine choice if you cannot take in the full 100° FOV.

--------------------


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helpwanted
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/04/07
Posts: 1605
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: CESDewar]
      #2551601 - 07/30/08 11:22 PM

why could you not take in the full 100deg? how close in to the eye cup do you need to be? is there risk of eyelash oil on the lens?
as far as wow factor... how does it compair to the 12T4?

--------------------
XT8 (8" f6)
EPs: Hyper, Pan, Axiom, SPL, TMBs






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Starman1
Postmaster
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Reged: 06/24/03
Posts: 10719
Loc: Los Angeles
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: helpwanted]
      #2551652 - 07/31/08 12:19 AM

My old set:
31/22/17/13/11/9/7/5 Naglers.
My new set:
31/22 Naglers, 13/8 Ethos, 5 Nagler.
From 8 eyepieces to 5.
And frankly, the 13 and 8 spend 95% of the time in the focuser. Those are incredible eyepieces.

--------------------
Don Pensack
12.5" Truss Dob, 5" Maksutov
Sustaining Lifetime IDA member, TeleVue junkie


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DeepSpaceTour
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 2942
Loc: In the dark and"WAY"out there!
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Tom Trusock]
      #2551741 - 07/31/08 01:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Yeah, I'm curious about the 26/31 thing too. They're so close, do you have the 26mm for weight reasons? Why not simply jump to 31mm, what does the 26mm give you that justifies it's place in your lineup?




I've got both here as well.

I see it as better optimized exit pupil for some scopes vs maximum tfov.

T





BINGO!! Tom!! That and the fact when viewing from my backyard and the LP it offers the 26T-5 works better....exit pupil, darker sky background, etc. And at a dark site they both get used on different large objects,it just depends on what and how I want to frame the view.

Clear skies.

--------------------
-------------------------
Bill
-17.5"F/5 Discovery"Truss" Dob/Dob driver/ArgoNavis
Kendrick dew control/Obsession Alt bearings
-Orion 4.5" StarBlast "SOLD" waiting for the 6"
-Antares 152-F/6.5 refractor on HEQ-5 Pro
-15x70 Binocs
-Collimating tools "LOTS"
- TV ep's *8-Ethos*13-Ethos*26T-5*31T-5*
- 2" Barlows
- Pelican1600

Edited by DeepSpaceTour (07/31/08 02:02 AM)


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Mike Harvey
professor emeritus


Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 559
Loc: Orlando, FL.
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: hoof]
      #2551766 - 07/31/08 02:31 AM

Quote:

Yeah, I'm curious about the 26/31 thing too. They're so close, do you have the 26mm for weight reasons? Why not simply jump to 31mm, what does the 26mm give you that justifies it's place in your lineup?




I had both the 31 and the 26 but found myself only using the Holy Hand Grenade when I really needed the widest possible TFOV...and that wasn't often enough to justify keeping it - especially when I needed cash to get PAIRS of the 13 and 8 Ethos'.
Now I, too, am finding that (in the single eyepiece category) the 26 Nagler 13 Ethos 8 Ethos and 3-6 Nagler Zoom cover every situation very well.
I also Barlow them occasionally withs the 2" 2X Powermate
(*Note: I'm told by a most reliable source that the Big Barlow is not optimized for the Ethos and the PowerMate is definitely the way to go).

Mike


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Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
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Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4216
Loc: Bosham, UK
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: DeepSpaceTour]
      #2551777 - 07/31/08 02:48 AM

Thank you guys, that's made up my mind nicely. The thing that really resonated was the comment that

Quote:

produces an amazing unbounded "floating in space" sensation such as only the 31T5 among 82-degree eyepieces comes anywhere close to also giving




my most memorable observing moment has to be looking at M81/M82 through the AP 130 + 31mm T5 under clear, dark sky - the sensation of the eyepiece 'vanishing' was remarkable. I've never quite got that with any other Nagler, although the 17T4 is probably closest - the 20T5 is a great eyepiece, but doesn't have the same effect. So if the Ethos does that too then i'm in.

One more thought. Given that i'm likely to buy both eventually, which should I buy now. The 13mm would be the most obvious choice, and with the BARCON i'd get 20mm, 13mm, '7.7mm' (E+BARCON), 5mm XW which is a good set for the AP130 under my sky, >200x is rare and i'm suffering at the moment with the current gap between the '11.8mm' (20T5+BARCON) and 5mm XW. On the other hand I also have a reasonable 2x 1.25" barlow, so the 8mm Ethos would give me 20mm, '11.8mm', 8mm, 5mm and '4mm', which would give me a useful higher power option. Plus the 8mm Ethos might be more useful with the 80ED I use for travelling.

Quote:

have you looked through an Ethos?




No. There isn't one locally to test drive, so i'm buying on reputation.

Over the last couple of years I've spent a lot of time (and remarkably little money, all things considered) testing pretty much everything TeleVue sells (plus all the short-FL XWs, Hyperions, assorted Meades etc.) via the tried and tested buy it used, try it, sell it route so I now have a good idea what I like in an eyepiece and what works for me. That means that I can have reasonable confidence in extrapolating from what I have used (Naglers) to what I haven't (Ethos), but ultimately my first experience of the Ethos will be when I buy one...

--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire/TeleVue 60is/Astro-Physics 1200GTO/SBIG ST-4000XCM
80ED/HEQ5Pro, lots of other stuff...


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DeepSpaceTour
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 10/25/05
Posts: 2942
Loc: In the dark and"WAY"out there!
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Ben Ritchie]
      #2551787 - 07/31/08 03:03 AM

Well Ben,I can only tell you what I did. I purchased the 13E first,thinking I wouldn't need the 8E,....huh!!...famous last words ....once I viewed through the 13E and observed not only the wide well corrected FOV,but as well,the superior light transmission and throughput,I just knew I had to have the 8E as well,and the 8E delivered the goods big time....so that's the way I did it!!

Clear skies.

--------------------
-------------------------
Bill
-17.5"F/5 Discovery"Truss" Dob/Dob driver/ArgoNavis
Kendrick dew control/Obsession Alt bearings
-Orion 4.5" StarBlast "SOLD" waiting for the 6"
-Antares 152-F/6.5 refractor on HEQ-5 Pro
-15x70 Binocs
-Collimating tools "LOTS"
- TV ep's *8-Ethos*13-Ethos*26T-5*31T-5*
- 2" Barlows
- Pelican1600


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Ben Ritchie
Lost in Space
*****

Reged: 01/31/05
Posts: 4216
Loc: Bosham, UK
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: DeepSpaceTour]
      #2551791 - 07/31/08 03:09 AM

Assuming the first one works for me then I pretty much know i'll end up with both ... it'll be like when I first used a Nagler (a 17T4), my Panoptics lasted about a week after that. No matter how good they were - and I loved the performance of the 24mm in particular - 68 degrees suddenly felt too small.

--------------------
Astro-Physics 130EDT StarFire/TeleVue 60is/Astro-Physics 1200GTO/SBIG ST-4000XCM
80ED/HEQ5Pro, lots of other stuff...


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Jeff Morgan
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 1409
Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Starman1]
      #2552817 - 07/31/08 03:46 PM

Quote:

My old set:
31/22/17/13/11/9/7/5 Naglers.
My new set:
31/22 Naglers, 13/8 Ethos, 5 Nagler.
From 8 eyepieces to 5.
And frankly, the 13 and 8 spend 95% of the time in the focuser. Those are incredible eyepieces.




What was your thinking on letting the 17N go (presumably for the 22N)? My first session with the 13E will be next Monday night, and I'll be going through the decision process of where the Ethos fits with my Nagler collection of 31, 17, and 12. Elimination of the 12 seems like a natural, and I use the 31 for my "finder" eyepiece since the 1.3 degree field frames all but about half a dozen objects. Pre-Ethos, if I could only own one eyepiece it would be the 17 Nagler.

--------------------
Jeff Morgan
Prescott, AZ
Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making


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helpwanted
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/04/07
Posts: 1605
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #2553529 - 07/31/08 10:11 PM

Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making

Acme Glass???

--------------------
XT8 (8" f6)
EPs: Hyper, Pan, Axiom, SPL, TMBs






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Jeff Morgan
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 09/28/03
Posts: 1409
Loc: Prescott, AZ
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: helpwanted]
      #2553975 - 08/01/08 07:10 AM

Quote:

Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making

Acme Glass???




Acme makes *everything*. The quality is pretty good too as long as I do not try to use the scope on roadrunners.

--------------------
Jeff Morgan
Prescott, AZ
Wile E. Coyote School of Telescope Making


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helpwanted
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 07/04/07
Posts: 1605
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Jeff Morgan]
      #2554148 - 08/01/08 09:10 AM

Quote:

Acme makes *everything*. The quality is pretty good too as long as I do not try to use the scope on roadrunners.





and we do have road runners here in AZ !

--------------------
XT8 (8" f6)
EPs: Hyper, Pan, Axiom, SPL, TMBs






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FirstSight
Carpal Tunnel
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Reged: 12/26/05
Posts: 2359
Loc: Raleigh, NC
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: helpwanted]
      #2554187 - 08/01/08 09:45 AM

I have both pairs:
31T5 & 26T5 Naglers
13 & 8 Ethos

If the 13Ethos proves impressively pleasing to you, the value of also adding the 8E at your earliest feasible opportunity will immediately become blindingly, almost painfully obvious.

The value of having both 31T5 and 26T5 is admittedly much less obvious - and while the exit pupil reasoning given by Tom T. is the rock-solid core of the technical explaination behind there being worthwhile reasons, nonetheless it's easier to appreciate in direct practical terms.

The 26T5 works better in a wider variety of situations (read: including light polluted suburban environments) because the higher magnification/smaller exit pupil produce a darker, more contrasty background. The sky can seem little darker than naked-eye in the 31T5 under typical suburban moderate light-polluted conditions, whereas the 26T5 will be significantly darker/more contrasty in such an environment, by comparison. The panoromic true field of view is one of the most impressively generous available, EXCEPT when compared back-to-back with the 31T5 in a more favorable viewing environment to the latter (read: darker skies).

BUT: In a darker-sky environment (even ones with some mild degree of light pollution), the comparative disadvantages caused by the larger exit pupil/lower mag 31T5 disappear - and what you then have is the most magnificent widefield panoromic eyepiece on the planet. A raw numerical TFOV comparison between the 31T5 and 26T5 (10% greater radius and 44%greater area in the 31T5) fails to convey just how much more visually immersive and broad the panorama in a 31T5 seems over a 26T5 - enough that whenever conditions are appropriate, I'll reach for the 31T5 first EVERY time.

However, most of us who have this particular pair (26 & 31) probably come to it either by having the 26 first and having a later opportunity to pick up the 31 without having to finance it by sale of the 26, OR else have the 31 first and come across a opportunity-you-can't-refuse sort of bargain on a 26. If you don't have either yet, the 31T5 and 22T4 might make a better-spaced pairing, while accomplishing much the same purpose as the 26/31 pairing. For many of us who already have the 26/31 pairing, however it works well enough to not be worth the trouble of selling the 26 and then finding a 22 used (or the risk we might turn out to not like the 22 as much as the 26 we already know).

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Chris M., aka "First Sight"
Orion XT12i Dob with Moonlite CR-2 focuser
WO Megrez 90 refractor on UniStar Light mount
Nikon 10x50 Binoculars


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sabir
sage


Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 404
Loc: Pune (India)
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: FirstSight]
      #2554324 - 08/01/08 11:00 AM

IMHO the 22T4 - 31T5 combo makes more sense when you have the 13E/13T6 in your lineup especially if you consider a 2X Barlow in the mix.

Sabir


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nkoiza
sage


Reged: 12/17/04
Posts: 206
Re: To Ethos, or not to Ethos... new [Re: Ben Ritchie]
      #2554382 - 08/01/08 11:37 AM

Ben,

From another UK-based observer...

I settled on the following wide-field line up for my 16" f/4.4 dob ( you said you were also considering a dob this size):

31T5
20T5
13T6
10XW
7XW
5XW

I think that's a perfect spread and an optimal set for me - the 13E might possibly better my 13T6 with the exception that I don't want to use a Paracorr at 13mm and shorter focal lengths which I think I would be obliged to do with a 13E at f/4.4.

Clear skies!
Nick

16-inch f/4.4 David Lukehurst Dobsonian on Brian Reed Tracking Platform


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