BlueMoon
super member
Reged: 06/14/07
Posts: 120
Loc: Idaho, USA
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Well, sometimes it just feels like "fiscal reality" has it in for me. I was on the cusp of ordering a selection of Baader Hyperions when, wham! Real Life intruded and I end up buying another vehicle, this time for the daughter (family comes first)...
Anyway, whining aside, I've been researching some "family budget friendly" EPs. After reading a number of reviews concerning the Orion Epic ED-2 and Expanse EPs, I'd like to solicit opinions from any of you good folks who may be using them.
Two of my criteria are: generous eye relief (I wear glasses) and being parfocal (at least the ED-2s are supposed to be).
They would be used with the Antares listed in sig.
Comments, opinions and suggestions would be well-received. Thanks!
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Jeff
Antares 1529 152mm f/6.5 Achromat Refractor
EQ5/ST-2 mount
1984 Tasco 19ER 20X-60X50 Refractor
Oberwerks 15x70 Binoculars
Herrett Observatory, Twin Falls, Idaho.
Edited by BlueMoon (07/31/08 05:03 PM)
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veebs2
super member
Reged: 03/13/07
Posts: 183
Loc: DeKalb, IL
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I have the 15mm Orion Expanse that I used for a little while in my fast dob. It was not well corrected on the last 30% of the FOV, but I have heard they are better in slower f ratios. I have also been told the 9mm and 6mm are good eyepieces for the money. The eye relief was pretty good. I also have glasses and did not have a problem viewing with this eyepiece.
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Paul
Zhumell 10" (My Mistress - name given by my wife)
Hyperions - 5mm, 13mm and 24mm
Stratus - 8mm and 17mm
Lumicon OIII Filter
Telrad
DeKalb, IL
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JasonNB
member
Reged: 11/21/06
Posts: 93
Loc: Spring Hill, TN
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Alas I understand all to well. I was working on the CFO for enough budget for a couple Hyperions. Got a call yesterday she ha a flat and destroyed a tire. The one she had is no longer made, so I have an appt to get 4 new ones today. There goes any chance of Hyperions
You may want to look at the Expanse "clones" sold by Owl Services and Agena Astro. They are listed as "EWA" I'm probably going to pick up the 6, 9, and 15 for my 8" F5.9.
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Zhumell 8" Dob
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Trondur
member
Reged: 03/09/07
Posts: 42
Loc: Cumberland County, Maine USA
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I'll second the Owl EWA's. I have the 9mm and use it in an f6 and an f11. Works well in both, with little, if any degradation. I have heard good things about the 6mm as well.
I'm also a champion of the 15mm and 20mm Garrett SWA's. Lots of eye relief and well made. I haven't used my "Series 500" 20mm Plossl since the day they arrived.
I like the term "family budget-friendly" eyepieces. That says it all. 
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Terry
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60mm f11 Sears 2419 Refractor on Homemade Alt-Az Mount
80mm f11 Surplus Shed Refractor on Homemade Alt-Az Mount (Usable, but still Under Construction)
100mm f6 Orion Refractor on modified Majestic mount and tripod
114mm f9 Tasco Reflector on EQ-1 mount (Apparently, a rare Tasco, because it seems OK)
7x50 Swift Swiftfocus Binoculars
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stevecoe
"The Astronomical Tourist"
Reged: 04/24/04
Posts: 1998
Loc: Arizona, USA
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I would advise you to stay away from the ED eyepieces. I bought several and returned them within a month...thanks Orion. They have a curved field of view and mediocre contrast. The Expanse and its clones are good, I like the Ultrascopics better, I give up some field of view for a sharp field with good contrast. I am also a big fan of the Vixen LV Lanthanum series. At Woodland Hills Camera there are several focal lengths of those that are 88 dollars.
Clear skies;
Steve Coe
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150mm 6" f/8 Celestron Refractor on Sirius Mount
80mmED 3" f/7.5 Orion Refractor
Author "Deep Sky Observing" Springer-Verlag
Author "Nebulae and How to Observe Them" Springer
New Canon Xt astrocamera with Hutech modification
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RalphK
newbie
Reged: 02/07/08
Posts: 3
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Et tu? Had 3 hyperions picked out when the turbo in my car blew - $1800 later the hyperions will have to wait. Instead I picked up the whole set (20,15,9,6)of OWL Expanse clones for about $130 and they perform admirably in my 120/8.3. Should be fine in your 152/6.5.
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Omni XLT 120
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JasonNB
member
Reged: 11/21/06
Posts: 93
Loc: Spring Hill, TN
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Trondur, how to the Garrets do in the F6?
The only real knock I've read about the expanse clones is that the 15 and 20 may do well at in faster scopes. Anyone have experience with them at F6-6.5?
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Zhumell 8" Dob
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Trondur
member
Reged: 03/09/07
Posts: 42
Loc: Cumberland County, Maine USA
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I've used the 15 more than the 20 on the f6. There is a slight degradation about 10% from the edge. I don't find it a problem. The FOV is nice (it'll never be a Nagler, but it's not trying to be) and the the eye relief is comfortable. I have found the 15 to be good on Messier objects, which is why it's been getting more usage in the f6.
I bought them because so many people thought that the equivalent Owls were not as much of a bargain. I haven't seen any coma, reflections, fuzziness, or any of the other things that others mentioned with the Owls. I should point out that some people loved the lower-powered Owls and Expanses. I just didn't want to chance it.
I would tell you more about what observing has been like with them, but we're having rotten observing weather this year. You'd think that this was Washington state, not Maine.
Hope that this helps.
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Terry
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60mm f11 Sears 2419 Refractor on Homemade Alt-Az Mount
80mm f11 Surplus Shed Refractor on Homemade Alt-Az Mount (Usable, but still Under Construction)
100mm f6 Orion Refractor on modified Majestic mount and tripod
114mm f9 Tasco Reflector on EQ-1 mount (Apparently, a rare Tasco, because it seems OK)
7x50 Swift Swiftfocus Binoculars
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Alleline
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/07/06
Posts: 517
Loc: Farmington, Maine
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My suggestion on budget wide field eyepieces (if you must):
30mm 1rpd or clone (this is a 2" EP)
20mm GSO Superview
9mm Expanse or clone
3x barlow (Superview barlows well - have never tried the 9mm in a barlow)
Set can be had new for roughly $250. The Superview is $45 and is my personal favorite. With a 2x and 3x barlow you would have roughly 50x, 100x and 150xin your Antares for about $150 total.
All these eyepieces are best in class for inexpensive wide fields. If you have the refractor on a mount with tracking, you might enjoy the better contrast of a 32mm or 20mm Televue plossl, which you can probably pick up for $75 used.
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Tom
Meade DS-16 (F4.5), C-8, Synta 120mm F8.3 refractor.
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pdfermat
member
Reged: 11/12/07
Posts: 82
Loc: Wisconsin
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I had the 15mm Expanse and just sold it - not because of performance, but because that magnification ranges it provided with my setup weren't as useful as I thought they would be. As far as the eyepiece itself - I thought it performed well. I wouldn't hesitate to get another one if I needed to fill a gap somewhere.
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Orion XT8i
25mm, 20mm, 10mm Plossls
9mm Planetary
Orion Shorty-Plus Barlow
DGM NPB Filter
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scott m
member
Reged: 12/06/07
Posts: 26
Loc: Hatfield Pa
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I have the Owl 6,9,15 and 20 EWA's; and just the other night got to compare an Orion Expane 15 and the Owl EWA 15 in my f6 DOB and there didn't seem to be any difference. Then he put his 12mm Nagler in and well all I can say is WOW!! Now to figure out how to sneak one through the budget. 
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Meade 600x70 AZ
Meade 1000x90 DS-90 goto
Busnell 900x114 Skytour
Zhumell 8 inch dob
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BlueMoon
super member
Reged: 06/14/07
Posts: 120
Loc: Idaho, USA
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Thx for the info guys... I think I'll "pony up" for the 4 pc. set of OWL EWAs and a OWL 11mm Ultra Wide as well...
That should leave just about enough "mad money" for a good dielectric diagonal and a Baader "Fringe Killer" or "Semi-Apo" filter...
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Jeff
Antares 1529 152mm f/6.5 Achromat Refractor
EQ5/ST-2 mount
1984 Tasco 19ER 20X-60X50 Refractor
Oberwerks 15x70 Binoculars
Herrett Observatory, Twin Falls, Idaho.
Edited by BlueMoon (08/07/08 11:47 AM)
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jcjr
professor emeritus
Reged: 01/06/08
Posts: 529
Loc: TN, USA
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I'm not at all expert, but the Expanse/EWA seem comfortable and well-behaved. A fabulous bargain. Fun to use.
IMO, the inexpensive UWA 11 is neither comfortable or well-behaved. Spent a long time trying to find something to like about it, but finally put it away in a drawer. Maybe later will find something it is good for, or give it away to somebody.
Others' mileage will vary of course.
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CPC 1100, C102SLT, SV F80, Meade 70 & 60 AZT
Q70 38mm, Pan24, Meade 5K 18mm UW, Axiom LX 15mm, Nagler 13T6, Axiom LX 10mm, Expanse 20mm, 9mm, 6mm, BO/TMB 5mm, 2.5mm
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BlueMoon
super member
Reged: 06/14/07
Posts: 120
Loc: Idaho, USA
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Quote:
IMO, the inexpensive UWA 11 is neither comfortable or well-behaved.
What kind of issues did you experience?
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Jeff
Antares 1529 152mm f/6.5 Achromat Refractor
EQ5/ST-2 mount
1984 Tasco 19ER 20X-60X50 Refractor
Oberwerks 15x70 Binoculars
Herrett Observatory, Twin Falls, Idaho.
Edited by BlueMoon (08/07/08 11:56 AM)
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 6382
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
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Hello Jeff
The only thing I'll say about the ED eyepieces is that Steve Coe already said it for me. I have had a fair amount of experience with the Synta 9mm widefield,a.k.a Orion Expanse in a number of different telescopes of different designs. My guess is your asking about your refractor at F/6.5? In my F/6 refractor,an AT66 ED,I thought the eyepiece was an absolute bargain. Well corrected to near about 80% off axis. Field curvature minimal,light scatter quite tolerable,fine light transmission and decent planetary performance. Not enough eye relief for this eyeglass user but maybe enough for some. For the non-glass wearer the likes a lot of wiggle room,near eye relief paradise. These eyepieces can be had for $38.00 new at Agena Astro. This particular eyepiece acts larger that it appears in terms of the AFOV of 66º.
Did I say bargain.
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Kenny
"Everything which the enemy least expects will succeed the best."
Frederick the Great
Edited by KWB (08/07/08 04:42 PM)
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greenough1
super member
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 112
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Kenny,
Is the this EP AGENA WA essentially a clone of the Expanse? I'm asking as I'm looking for a good enough (good value) 8mm, wide-ish field for clusters, nebula and planetary work. jeff
Edited by greenough1 (08/07/08 06:24 PM)
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 6382
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
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Hello Jeff Number 2
If your asking about my reference to the Agena eyepiece,the answer is yes. You'll never mistake one of these eyepieces with a Nagler or a Panoptic,but for what they are-a compromise eyepiece,and for what they cost,IME the 9mm version of this design does a good job. I believe one of the better eyepiece values in this hobby for those users on a real restricted budget.
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Kenny
"Everything which the enemy least expects will succeed the best."
Frederick the Great
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 6382
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
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You pulled a sneaky on me,Jeff. You edited your post after asking me a question. I'll get you a link to what I'm talking about. 9mm Agena Enhanced Widefield
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Kenny
"Everything which the enemy least expects will succeed the best."
Frederick the Great
Edited by KWB (08/07/08 06:35 PM)
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greenough1
super member
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 112
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Thank you Kenny. Sorry to edit my post on you. the html link pasted in wierdly and needed editting. the one I linked has been out of stock forever and Manish doesn't know when any will be in. Thanks again, jeff
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Orion XT6i (f/8) w/ COL
Philips SPC900
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KWB
Postmaster
Reged: 09/30/06
Posts: 6382
Loc: Westminster,Co Elev.1646Meters
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My pleasure,Sir. My aim is to please and be of any help if I can. Enjoy your eyepiece if you should decide to go in that direction. Or any choice that you make!
Clear skies to you. 
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Kenny
"Everything which the enemy least expects will succeed the best."
Frederick the Great
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greenough1
super member
Reged: 01/04/08
Posts: 112
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I've got all of the Agena SWA's and I'm very happy with those. My seeing doesn't support much more than 8mm EP (6mm rarely), that's why I was looking for something in an 8mm and that's why I was looking at the 8mm WA, but as I said, it's never in stock.Best, jeff
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Orion XT6i (f/8) w/ COL
Philips SPC900
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j3ffr0
member
Reged: 07/06/08
Posts: 61
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I bought a used Expanse 20mm. I was happy enough with it to buy others that. They are plenty good for the money. I plan to use these when I don't want to risk pulling out the fine crystal.
You can find them used from time to time for a little over half price.
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10" Dob
127mm Mak
10x50 Binocs
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Paul_R
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/05/05
Posts: 1604
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Just a cautionary note, which I know doesn't apply to the OP's longer f ratio scope, but the 20mm Expanse (and clones) do not do well at fast f ratios such as f/4. Pretty good at f/5.4, but not for the fast lane. I mention that in case anyone stumbles across this thread.
By contrast, the 22mm Orion Epics and 18mm Celestron X-cel were quite good, even at f/4. People who don't wear eyeglasses often have trouble with blackouts (optical kind  ) And some people dislike the short focal length versions of them, but some of us like most of them (save, for me, the 14mm Epic which is the odd man out in the series and didn't work as well).
As this is coming from someone who has been Pentaxified.
The 9mm Expanse (and the 6mm for that matter, too) are much better than the 20mm at fast f ratios (they have the Smyth lens or some such built in... so they are more like barlowed eyepieces). Eye relief is almost passable for glasses, too, on those! But put some rubber on the top or your glasses will get scratched!
I really like this thread because of its focus on budget friendly, family friendly eyepiece buying... all too often we drift rapidly into advising the people spend the green on the green! (Or at least extolling the virtues of being Naglerized, Ethosnized, etc.)
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