Jan Owen
super member
Reged: 02/12/06
Posts: 154
Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
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The hype says these Barlows render sharper, flatter fields than other Barlows.
I have NO data on these things, so can't REFUTE the claim...
But just how many pieces of glass do we NEED in the optical train??? Every air to glass surface results in negatives, and the more there are, the more there ARE, so to speak...
Take a five element Barlow, and a 7 or 8 element eyepiece, and you're getting a LOT of glass, and a lot of air to glass surfaces between you and the object to be viewed...
Modern coatings are getting pretty good, but this has the feel of overkill to me...
Not that I won't suck it up and BUY one (or so) if they turn out to be a really GOOD thing...
Jan
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Keep on looking up...
Meade 60mm f/15 achro refractor from WAY back...
Vernonscope 94mm f/7 Brandon triplet APO
Orion EON ED 120mm f/7.5
Celestron 5.5" f/3.6 Comet Catcher Schmidt-Newt
8" f/6 Newtonian w/Spooner optics on Atlas G mount
Meade 10" f/10 SCT
12" f/5 Meade LightBridge Dob/Newt
13.1" f/4.5 Coulter Odyssey early Dob/Newt
Many eyepieces and accessories
Always lusting after large MCT, but never buy one
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Tom Trusock
Reged: 02/26/02
Posts: 26296
Loc: Alternate Reality (TM)
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Are they, perhaps, telecentric barlows like the powermates?
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Lawrence Sayre
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 3528
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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You can't tell from the specs or the ad.
They appear at first glance to be quite gimmicky to me, but to give credit where credit is due, at least they have totally done away with the ridiculous idea that "Barlow Clear Aperture" is important. The 1.25" 3X model has only a mere 16 mm of Clear Aperture, the 1.25" 5X has an amazingly narrow 12 mm of clear aperture, and the 2" 3X model has an amazingly narrow 22 mm of clear aperture. The chrome rings look quite humorous (err, hideous).
If any other credit is due, they are certainly not short.
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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Jan Owen
super member
Reged: 02/12/06
Posts: 154
Loc: Sun City West, Arizona
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Not enough data to tell in the first ad (I've seen)...
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Keep on looking up...
Meade 60mm f/15 achro refractor from WAY back...
Vernonscope 94mm f/7 Brandon triplet APO
Orion EON ED 120mm f/7.5
Celestron 5.5" f/3.6 Comet Catcher Schmidt-Newt
8" f/6 Newtonian w/Spooner optics on Atlas G mount
Meade 10" f/10 SCT
12" f/5 Meade LightBridge Dob/Newt
13.1" f/4.5 Coulter Odyssey early Dob/Newt
Many eyepieces and accessories
Always lusting after large MCT, but never buy one
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Lawrence Sayre
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 3528
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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The 3 element Barlow has pretty much crashed and burned. Telecentrics have shown that the future of Barlows is to have 4 elements. Just as 3 elements was (for the most part, the Klee being perhaps an exception) a failed attempt to trump 2 elements, I predict a similar event unfolding here. After all, 5 elements must be better than 4, no?
I wonder how many air spaces they have between the lenses? Who will first to disassemble one and take a look?
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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cuir
professor emeritus
Reged: 03/03/07
Posts: 733
Loc: 45° 1'12.78" N, 73°56'12.25" W...
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I beleive these to be the same that my local brick and mortar shop sells as "Red star" barlows. They are big, hideous things. I have yet to see one of these in the field, and the shop has been carrying them since the end of last winter, if my memory is correct.
3 of the suspects are at the bottom of this page., and another one on at the top of this page.
Esthetics aside, they do command quite a hefty price, IMO, for an unknown product. This just might be cause for interest; they might be excellent. I'm still hoping for Lawrence Sayre to get a hold of one of these and give us a shoot-out with the TV powermate, TV Barlow and Meade Telecentric barlow. I'm admitedly not a barlow fan, but Lawrence always makes it interesting to read about them. 
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Seb
Download EP spreedsheets version 6.4
My gear
Main scope: 150mm Skywatcher Maksutov
Favorite ep: 24 Panoptic
Pref'ed filters: Lumicon 0III and UHC
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Lawrence Sayre
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 3528
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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Sorry for mentioning this, but Red Star reminds me of yeast.
I wonder why Orion didn't choose to go after the 2" 5X model? Turns a 41 mm Panoptic into an 8.2 mm, and a 31 mm Nagler into a 6.2 mm. Highly desirable!!! 
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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Lawrence Sayre
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 3528
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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I've posted many a Barlow thread that didn't garner this many hits in days. 5 elements is already working!!!
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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Lawrence Sayre
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 3528
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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Quote:
Esthetics aside, they do command quite a hefty price, IMO, for an unknown product. This just might be cause for interest; they might be excellent. I'm still hoping for Lawrence Sayre to get a hold of one of these and give us a shoot-out with the TV powermate, TV Barlow and Meade Telecentric barlow. I'm admitedly not a barlow fan, but Lawrence always makes it interesting to read about them.
I'm taking Barlow donations to "fund" this shootout. No refunds is my price, but you will get the report if I get all of the Barlows. I already have the 2.5X Powermate. 
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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ccs_hello
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/03/04
Posts: 2686
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Hmmmm...
7-element coming up  .
Clear Skies!
ccs_hello
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GlennLeDrew
sage
Reged: 06/18/08
Posts: 286
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Reminds me of the ever-increasing blade count in Gillette razors. Currently up to 5 there, too! Where will it end?!? 
But regarding light loss. With good coatings, it'll be negligible. After all, look at, say, a Fuji bino. It's got something like 12-14 air-to-glass surfaces, *and* a 4-inch thick prism train to boot, and they claim what, 96% light throughput?
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Home-made 11X50 right angle bino, 8.1 deg. FOV
Modified 26X100 bino, 3.5 deg. FOV
Mediocre minds discuss people. Good minds discuss events. Great minds discuss ideas.
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Brooklyn
professor emeritus
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 611
Loc: Central New Jersey
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when will it end? when the image is perfectly corrected of course.
After all is this not the aim of all optics? to deliver an unobstructed image.
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Meade 8.25"(209.55mm) LX-90 EMC (SCT)
Albert Einstein =>
“Intellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.”
“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.”
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naglertized
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 01/10/07
Posts: 1513
Loc: Jacksonville Florida
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Those Orion barlows are hideous looking. What were they thinking!
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Clinton
TV Pronto
TV 3-6 Nagler Zoom
TV 7mm. Nagler Type 1
TV 15mm. Wide field
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sabir
sage
Reged: 06/23/07
Posts: 402
Loc: Pune (India)
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They claim "Requires no added in or out focus travel" ...could that be true?
Sabir
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David E
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/25/06
Posts: 1445
Loc: North Carolina
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Quote:
when will it end? when the image is perfectly corrected of course.
After all is this not the aim of all optics? to deliver an unobstructed image.
It would be interesting to see if it provides better imaging characteristics than the Powermate, particularly for people with DSLR users that like to take "one shot wonders."
David E
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So when at times the mob is swayed
To carry praise or blame too far,
We may choose something like a star
To stay our minds on and be staid.
-Robert Frost
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David E
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 05/25/06
Posts: 1445
Loc: North Carolina
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Quote:
They claim "Requires no added in or out focus travel" ...could that be true?
Sabir
Yes, but probably what they should say is that it is "parfocal" with your eyepieces. That is, it will require very little to no refocusing when you put in the eypiece.
David E
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So when at times the mob is swayed
To carry praise or blame too far,
We may choose something like a star
To stay our minds on and be staid.
-Robert Frost
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Clive Gibbons
Mostly Harmless
Reged: 05/26/05
Posts: 9288
Loc: Oort Cloud
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Thanks for pointing those out, Jan.
I had to wander over for a look...
Not exactly easy on the eyes from the outside.... 
But, if they perform well, then great.
I'd want to check 'em out very carefully, incl. the interior blackening/baffling. The TV Powermate is truly excellent in that regard. No stray reflections inside.
If these new Orion offerings can match the Powermate's performance, I'd seriously consider them..... despite their "aesthetics". 
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A few telescopes of dubious value.
Understanding wife and three curious cats.
"Semper ubi sub ubi"
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NGC6144
member
Reged: 07/24/08
Posts: 47
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA
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I dont use barlows, But I think this is a good looking barlow!!
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Orion Skyquest XT10i w/telrad
21mm Hyperion
8mm hyperion
Messier objects observed this year:65
caldwell objects observed this year:10
Herschel 400 objects this year: 9
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Deep13
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 01/25/05
Posts: 1417
Loc: NE Ohio
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My guess is this is to compete with the TV Powermates. I think Meade has something like this too.
For my own self, I prefer a conventional achromatic Barlow.
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Preserve the night sky. Join the Internat. Dark Sky Assn. for less than a cheap eyepiece.
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Bob Myler
member
Reged: 05/18/06
Posts: 49
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Despite the best of coatings, when I combine a 7-element teleconverter with a 17-element ED zoom lens (48 lens surfaces!), daytime contrast is degraded significantly...how much more so would the effect be noticeable at night?
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Lawrence Sayre
Post Laureate
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 3528
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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I simply can not believe that there seem to be people who are actually drawn to desire these Barlows, sight unseen. My guess is that much of the same crowd that was drawn to the 3 element designs is included. Also those who formerly preached short, short, short may be included here. Even people who routinely hate Barlows perhaps. Are we witnessing the power of pure advertising induced delusion?
As for me, I say: "Let the Rabbits run!"
There may be value here, so "perhaps" the value will be revealed by the rabbits. However, there is also the strong tendency to become enamored by new toys to the point of not seeing the deficiencies until much later than the first few months of ownership. I myself have suffered from this many times.
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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