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jack45
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/07/03
Posts: 2474
Loc: Lacey WA
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Carol
Is there anyplace that sells the Masuyama's EPs? I never see them for sale anywhere, would like to try them out!
Clear Skies!
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16"f/4.5 Discovery Split Tube/TV Paracorr
12.5"f/5 Discovery PDHQ
Orion f/4.9 XT12"Intelliscope
BV's/Bugress Model 24/Stellarvue Model BV3A
TV Smooth Side Plossls,7.4mm,10.5mm,17mm,21mm,26mm
Nagler EPs 9mm T/2,13mm T/1,16mm T/2,20mm T/2,26mm T/5
Axiom EPs 23mm,31mm LX,22mm Panoptic
UO EPs 5MM,6MM,7MM,12.5MM
Baader Hyp 8mm-24mm Zoom
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Lawrence Sayre
Abbe Normal
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 4760
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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The species became extinct in about 1989.
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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jack45
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/07/03
Posts: 2474
Loc: Lacey WA
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Right, and you never see them for sale used!
Clear Skies!
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16"f/4.5 Discovery Split Tube/TV Paracorr
12.5"f/5 Discovery PDHQ
Orion f/4.9 XT12"Intelliscope
BV's/Bugress Model 24/Stellarvue Model BV3A
TV Smooth Side Plossls,7.4mm,10.5mm,17mm,21mm,26mm
Nagler EPs 9mm T/2,13mm T/1,16mm T/2,20mm T/2,26mm T/5
Axiom EPs 23mm,31mm LX,22mm Panoptic
UO EPs 5MM,6MM,7MM,12.5MM
Baader Hyp 8mm-24mm Zoom
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Lawrence Sayre
Abbe Normal
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 4760
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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They were never widely promoted or truly made readily available to consumers outside of Japan. Very few people actually own any of them.
And that they or their designer got no respect at all from a highly Eurocentric world (which praises all of the European eyepiece designers) apparently did not help. The same is happening with the Chinese eyepiece innovators of today. Sadly, they will not get any serious level of recognition or respect either. Oddly enough though, the Asian peoples seem to hide from this sort of thing, so in a real way they are acting to promote and sustain the very annonymity that the Eurocentrics are glad to oblige.
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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csa/montana
Den Mother
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40316
Loc: montana
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They are extremely rare to find. I'm very thrilled with mine, not to mention they are in mint condition.
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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jack45
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 07/07/03
Posts: 2474
Loc: Lacey WA
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I'll do some checking around, may get lucky!
Clear Skies!
--------------------
16"f/4.5 Discovery Split Tube/TV Paracorr
12.5"f/5 Discovery PDHQ
Orion f/4.9 XT12"Intelliscope
BV's/Bugress Model 24/Stellarvue Model BV3A
TV Smooth Side Plossls,7.4mm,10.5mm,17mm,21mm,26mm
Nagler EPs 9mm T/2,13mm T/1,16mm T/2,20mm T/2,26mm T/5
Axiom EPs 23mm,31mm LX,22mm Panoptic
UO EPs 5MM,6MM,7MM,12.5MM
Baader Hyp 8mm-24mm Zoom
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csa/montana
Den Mother
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40316
Loc: montana
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You never know!
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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AlexRM
member
Reged: 08/20/09
Posts: 24
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Aren't the Celestron Ultima and Orion Ultrascopic based on the Masuyama design?
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Used to be 'AlexM'
Harding DSH 10
Vixen ED80SF
Orion 100mm f/6
Orion 6" f/8
Celestron C6 SCT
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csa/montana
Den Mother
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40316
Loc: montana
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Here are some Masuyama's:
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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csa/montana
Den Mother
Reged: 05/14/05
Posts: 40316
Loc: montana
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.. The flash changed the color of the stripe (band) around them; it is a beautiful red, rather than the orange color shown with the flash.
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Carol
AstroTech 16" Dob (Thanks ASTRONOMICS!)
Vixen 80MF/AstroTech Voyager
Masuyama's 7.5, 15, 25W, 35mm,
Pentaxes; 5XW, 7XL, 10XW.
14mm Meade 4000 UWA
TV Panoptics; 22, 35
DreamCatcher Dobservatory, #2
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Lawrence Sayre
Abbe Normal
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 4760
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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The various pseudo's share the symmetrical 2:1:2 design of Masuyama in their longer FL's (a symmetry which even Masuyama violates in the shortest FL's of their own series), but they differ in that they are much shorter than Masuyama's in overall length (a difference which is readily noticable in the longer FL's), and therefore they can't possibly have the same exact lens groups, meaning at least that the crown and flint glass types encorporated are likely different, the focal lengths of the individual lens groups for a given FL are likely going to be different, the refractive incidcies of the lens elements and groups are likely different, the degree of convex or concave curvature of the lens surfaces are likely different, and many other things are also quite likely to be internally different. Another thing that very likely is different is the degree of lens figure and surface polish (scratch/dig), which is a critical characteristic of quality for which the real Masuyama's are most certainly a cut above the all of the pseudos sans for perhaps the Tak LE's (down to the 10 mm Tak LE, as at shorter than this FL the LE's are not pseudo-Masuyama designs).
The 7 element 5 mm and 3.8 mm pseudos are actually 10 mm and 7.5 mm eyepieces with an added (removable) 2X Barlowing group, and the short FL real Masuyama's do not take this approach. Instead, the shortest FL real Masuyama's remain 2:1:2, but they do break the symmetry which is found in the longer FL Masuyama's.
Also, the various pseudo's are all parafocal with each other even across their respective brand names, but none of them are even close to being parafocal with the real Masuyama's. This in itself indicates a degree of internal difference.
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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skypilgrim
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/25/06
Posts: 558
Loc: Under a cloud
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Very interesting summary Lawrence! All along I've been thinking my pseudo's (Ultimas, Ultrascopics and even a vintage Meade Super Plossl) were the same design in a different body. Given how much I enjoy my pseudo's I wonder what I'd think if I ever got a chance to look through a real Masuyama? 
Sam
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AL Messier certificate #2078
AL Double Star certificate #354
Area of interest: Cultural Astronomy
My Blog: http://fathersky.wordpress.com/
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Lawrence Sayre
Abbe Normal
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 4760
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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I still think that there is a very good possibility (albeit speculative) that the same optical house that once manufactured the real Masuyama's is manufacturing the various pseudos. This is the very same optical house that I believe also mfg's the Baader Genuine Orthos (more speculation here, but at least [thanks to Amalia's great sleuthing] we know without having to speculate that Dr. Masuyama is the designer of the BGO's).
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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BillP
Post Laureate
Reged: 11/26/06
Posts: 3954
Loc: Vienna, VA
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Quote:
Given how much I enjoy my pseudo's I wonder what I'd think if I ever got a chance to look through a real Masuyama?
Sam
I think you would be impressed...particularly with the focal lengths of 15mm and longer. Pitch black backgrounds and stars dimensionally *pop* in the fov when I got the chance to view thru some.
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Bill Paolini
XT10i Dob---TSA-102 S-APO---APM80/480 S-APO--- P.S.T.
TMB Supermonos---Meade UWAs---TV Panoptic---AT Titan II ED
To your own eyes be true...
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Lawrence Sayre
Abbe Normal
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 4760
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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Here is the Italian website link with proof that Dr. Masuyama designed the Baader Genuine Ortho's (with all thanks to Amalia for discovering this). It is translated into (a bit broken) English thanks to the 'Babel Fish' translator.
Link to proof that Masuyama designed the BGO's
If one looks at the Baader Eudiascopic's (their version of the pseudo-Masuyama's) and compares their outward look and construction to the BGO's, it seems clear (to me at least, this being yet more of my patented speculation) that they are both mfg'd at the same location.
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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wprince
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/26/06
Posts: 563
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Lawrence, the BGO's look like my UO HD's. I know at least the coatings differ between the two, but do you think that the HD's may be manufactured at the same location as well?
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Wade
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skypilgrim
professor emeritus
Reged: 12/25/06
Posts: 558
Loc: Under a cloud
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Once again, fascinating stuff Lawrence (and Amalia)! 
Now I wonder if my entire eyepiece case has the Masuyama stamp on it despite none actually bearing the name. Besides the pseudo's I already mentioned, I have two UO HD ortho's which probably come out of the same place as the BGO's. And I have one of the older Celestron Axiom's that were made in Japan and were promoted with the known pseudo Ultima's. Did Masuyama play a role in the Axiom design? I wonder.
Oh well, it's fun to ponder.
Sam
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AL Messier certificate #2078
AL Double Star certificate #354
Area of interest: Cultural Astronomy
My Blog: http://fathersky.wordpress.com/
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Lawrence Sayre
Abbe Normal
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 4760
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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Quote:
Lawrence, the BGO's look like my UO HD's. I know at least the coatings differ between the two, but do you think that the HD's may be manufactured at the same location as well?
It would appear so! 'Speculation mode' is on though.
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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Lawrence Sayre
Abbe Normal
Reged: 10/16/04
Posts: 4760
Loc: N.E. Ohio
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Quote:
Here are some Masuyama's:
Beautiful! Love that unique Oriental Pagoda look.
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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a moral being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
Ayn Rand (in the appendix to 'Atlas Shrugged')
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5u4
member
Reged: 04/27/06
Posts: 92
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I bought a 10mm Masuyama when they first hit the market from a very well know dealer. The owner of the store told me it was an Ortho with an air-spaced triplet, hmm well that's different. I compared it to a TV 10.5 Plossl & it seemed the TV was better in just about every regard. So, I sent the Masuyama to a very well known optician to find out what was going on & was told it was a 2-1-2 design similar to a Celestron Ultima, which we all now know of course & the scratch & dig was very poor. I returned the eyepiece to the dealer & never looked back. Guess I'm the only one, or at least one of the few with a less than stellar review of the illustrious Masuyama?
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