Return to the Cloudy Nights Telescope Reviews home page
   ˇ Get a Cloudy Nights T-Shirt ˇ Submit a Review / Article   

Click here if you are having trouble logging into the forums

Privacy Policy | Please read our Terms of Service | Signup and Troubleshooting FAQ | Problems? PM a Red or a Green Gu.... uh, User

Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
Prof M
member


Reged: 07/26/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Southwest Utah
Mediocre Scope--High-end EP?
      #3424531 - 11/01/09 09:21 PM

I am trying to decide what eyepieces to buy for my humble Astroview 120ST. I have been told two stories: One, don't buy high quality EPs for a low-end scope. Others tell me a good EP improves any telescope. Any ideas as to which view is correct?
Keith


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
russell23
sage


Reged: 05/31/09
Posts: 427
Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Prof M]
      #3424578 - 11/01/09 09:45 PM

Quote:

I am trying to decide what eyepieces to buy for my humble Astroview 120ST. I have been told two stories: One, don't buy high quality EPs for a low-end scope. Others tell me a good EP improves any telescope. Any ideas as to which view is correct?
Keith




I have a 120mm f/8.3 Celestron achro and I also a few months ago tried a 150mm f/5 celestron achro with several of my eyepieces.

I've used 10mm, 14mm, 20mm, 30mm, and 40mm XW's. I've also used a 17mm T4 Nagler, 24mm, 32mm and 48mm Brandon's, 27mm Panoptic, 9mm, 12.5mm, and 14.5mm Orion edge on planetary EP, 27mm and 19mm Orion Edge on, 15mm, 15.5mm, and 19mm Russell optics Konigs, 18mm Orion Epic ED2, 26mm Sirius plossl, 42mm GSO superview, 38mm and 32mm Orion Q70's, 32mm UO Konig, 24mm UO Konig, 28mm RKE, 13mm Siebert Ultra, 48mm plossl, ...

Based upon my experiences with all these eyepieces, eyepiece quality makes a significant difference. I disagree with the notion that your viewing experience is not different in a mediocre scope if you use premium EP.

Without question the best results in my 120mm f/8.3 have been with the Brandons, XW's, Panoptic, and Nagler. Among the low cost EP the Orion Edge On planetary and Russell optics 15mm and 19mm Konigs were by far the best. In fact, - with the exception of edge performance, there is very little difference between the XW's and the RO Konigs.

Now one caveat regarding the XW's. When I tried them in the 150mm f/5 the edge performance with the XW's was significantly worse. They are almost sharp to the edge in the f/8.3. However, the lower quality EP were even worse in performance in the f/5 scope.

So based upon testing of all the above EP over the last 6 months I would argue that you can make gains in observing results by using premium EP with a mediocre scope.

Short version: The second of your two stories is the better from my experience.

Dave


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
dpwoos
sage


Reged: 10/18/06
Posts: 218
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Prof M]
      #3424609 - 11/01/09 10:01 PM

No eyepiece, however expensive, will make a bad optic perform like a good optic. Expensive eyepieces do some things very well, but not this. I recommend that you observe with others and compare scope/eyepiece merits for yourself. Personally, I would rather observe with a great scope and a $25 plossl than a mediocre scope and a $600 eyepiece.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
David E
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 05/25/06
Posts: 3021
Loc: North Carolina
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Prof M]
      #3424629 - 11/01/09 10:08 PM

Quote:

I am trying to decide what eyepieces to buy for my humble Astroview 120ST. I have been told two stories: One, don't buy high quality EPs for a low-end scope. Others tell me a good EP improves any telescope. Any ideas as to which view is correct?
Keith




Both are correct. On one hand, it's easy to get quality eyepieces for around $50 these days, Plossls in the Sterling or Vixen brands' or University Optics Orthoscopics for example. So you don't have to break the bank to get nice views from quality eyepieces. On the other hand, my experience is that "premium" eyepieces (i.e. $200 on up by my definition) do indeed tend to correct better for your scope's inherent abberations. I've noticed this with both budget achromats and my budget priced mass-produced Zhummel Dobsonian.

I might look at it this way. If you plan on upgrading your telescope some day I'd lean toward getting premium eyepieces, as you can always use them with any new telescope. But if you think this scope is it, I'd look for the lower cost eyepieces, in the $50-100 bracket.

--------------------
David E

If you keep a stack of old Orion catalogs in your bathroom, you might be an astro-redneck.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
russell23
sage


Reged: 05/31/09
Posts: 427
Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: dpwoos]
      #3424712 - 11/01/09 11:10 PM

Quote:

No eyepiece, however expensive, will make a bad optic perform like a good optic. Expensive eyepieces do some things very well, but not this.




But the 120mm f/5 ST is not a "bad optic", it is a mediocre optic. It is a fast achromat -- which is not particularly useful for planetary observations, but can do quite well with deep sky. A premium EP will get the maximum the 120mm ST can produce whereas a cheap EP is already less than the best you can get from an EP and then you combine it with a mediocre scope. Mediocre x garbage is not going to be as good as mediocre x a diamond.

Quote:

I recommend that you observe with others and compare scope/eyepiece merits for yourself.




I agree with this. The more you can see and test for yourself the better.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
russell23
sage


Reged: 05/31/09
Posts: 427
Loc: Upstate NY
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: David E]
      #3424722 - 11/01/09 11:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I am trying to decide what eyepieces to buy for my humble Astroview 120ST. I have been told two stories: One, don't buy high quality EPs for a low-end scope. Others tell me a good EP improves any telescope. Any ideas as to which view is correct?
Keith




Both are correct. On one hand, it's easy to get quality eyepieces for around $50 these days, Plossls in the Sterling or Vixen brands' or University Optics Orthoscopics for example. So you don't have to break the bank to get nice views from quality eyepieces. On the other hand, my experience is that "premium" eyepieces (i.e. $200 on up by my definition) do indeed tend to correct better for your scope's inherent abberations. I've noticed this with both budget achromats and my budget priced mass-produced Zhummel Dobsonian.

I might look at it this way. If you plan on upgrading your telescope some day I'd lean toward getting premium eyepieces, as you can always use them with any new telescope. But if you think this scope is it, I'd look for the lower cost eyepieces, in the $50-100 bracket.




I think it depends upon what he wants to do with the scope. If he is looking to get a 70 or 80 degree field EP, then why not go with a Nagler? It will provide much better edge correction than any of the cheap wide-fields -- and with an f/5 scope that is a significant gain.

The thing is about trying out some premium EP on a mediocre scope is that you get an idea of the best you are ever going to get from that scope. I personally don't think people should settle for mediocre EP with a mediocre scope. Find out the limits of the scope's capability with the premium EP and then that will help you decide whether or not you need to move to another scope.

Since he asked the question it is obvious the current mediocre scope with mediocre (or worse) EP is not working for him. His choices are to get better EP, get a better scope, or both.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kroum
professor emeritus


Reged: 08/28/08
Posts: 630
Loc: Santa Clara, CA
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: russell23]
      #3424774 - 11/01/09 11:46 PM

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, likewise your optical train is limited by the lowest quality component. Using good quality eyepieces will allow the full potential of the telescope to be realized.

The decision of whether it is worth it to spend several times more on eyepieces as the telescope costs is a different question however.

--------------------
10in Hardin Optical Dob
100mm f6 Orion Achromat
6in Orion Short Tube Reflector
15X70 Barska Binoculars

32mm Astrola (Boo!)
25mm, 12.5mm Sterling Plossls
20mm Orion Expanse
9mm Hardin (GSO) Plossl
7.5mm Orion Ultrascopic
Ultima 2X shorty barlow

Turn on, tune in, and look through the eyepiece.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ibase
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/20/08
Posts: 1567
Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Prof M]
      #3424812 - 11/02/09 12:21 AM

Quote:

I am trying to decide what eyepieces to buy for my humble Astroview 120ST. I have been told two stories: One, don't buy high quality EPs for a low-end scope. Others tell me a good EP improves any telescope. Any ideas as to which view is correct?
Keith




IMHO, a nice solution/compromise to this dilemma would be to get a mid-level EP like say the Hyperion 8-24mm zoom. If in the future you move up to a hi-end scope, you wouldn't need to upgrade the EP because it's not so far off in terms of performance compared to the uber expensive premium EP's. It works just as well in my WO Megrez 102ED refractor as it does with my humbler Orion ST-80.

Best,

--------------------
Hernando
Nexstar 8/CG-5 ASGT; WO Megrez 102ED SV; Antares 6" 1529; WO ZS66SD; Orion ST80
TV Naglers 5T6, 9T1, 12T2; Panoptic27; Hyperion 8-24mm Zoom,21mm; WO 7.5-22.5mm
BO/TMB 2.5/3.2/4/6mm;UO HD 5;BGO 6;Meade-RGO 7;UO-V 9/12.5;Brandon 16mm;Ultima18
TV 2x,3x barlow&8/11/15/20/32plossl; Aspheric31;Siebert36-OB;Paragon40;Meade56Smoothie
C-f/6.3FR;OIII,UHC,SkyGlow,U-block,8"S-flter;GLP/Telrad/MRF/9x50RACI; NexImge;Canon RebelXS


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike Hosea
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 3957
Loc: "Metrowest" Boston
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: kroum]
      #3424846 - 11/02/09 12:47 AM

Quote:

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, likewise your optical train is limited by the lowest quality component.




Yes, and I might add that there are many chains here, not just one, and off-axis it can easily be the eyepiece that is by far the weakest link, even with mediocre telescope optics. Possibly you might want to avoid paying $600 for a short focal length planetary eyepiece if spherical aberration, chromatic aberrations, or excessive scatter from the telescope optics are just going to dominate on-axis. Generally speaking, though, a good quality, well-corrected eyepiece is a joy in any telescope, regardless of how modest.

--------------------
Mike

Stuff that I use:
  • 7" f/6.7 home-built Newt and equatorial platform
  • 6 eyepieces and a Barlow
  • 120mm f/8.3 home-built grab-n-go Newt
  • Canon 15x50 IS and Eagle Optics 12x50 Ranger binoculars



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
j3ffr0
sage


Reged: 07/06/08
Posts: 425
Loc: Virginia
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Mike Hosea]
      #3424909 - 11/02/09 02:35 AM

Most of the time I use pretty high end eyepieces (Naglers and Pans) in my 120ST (the dielectric diagonal makes a difference too). However the times have use my Expanses in the 120ST, I've been pretty pleased. BTW - I mainly use the 120ST as a wide-field/DSO scope as well as grab and go.

All my scopes are mediocre (price wise), but I some get fantabulous views out of them. I like my high end eyepieces, but my Expanses are pretty decent too. Due to my own biases, I say there is nothing wrong with using a high end EP in a mediocre scope. However, I also think it's likely that you might be just as satisfied with mid-priced EPs like the Hyperions.

--------------------
10" Dob, 127mm Mak, 120mm f5 achro, PST
35, 24 Panoptic; 16, 13, 9, 3-6 Nagler
15, 10, 7.5, 5, 3.8 Ultrascopic
20, 15, 9, 6 Expanse


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RAKing
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 12/28/07
Posts: 2092
Loc: West of the D.C. Nebula
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: j3ffr0]
      #3425040 - 11/02/09 07:22 AM

I still have my Celestron C102 XLT and I would call it a "modest" scope (not mediocre). I still take it out a few times a year and use Ethos and Pentax XW eyepieces. All of the eyepieces work quite well and the stars are super sharp with great contrast. All in all, this modest little 4 inch refractor still looks pretty good to me. I agree with the group that says a premium eyepiece can make any telescope work to its fullest potential.

Buying a premium scope can be expensive and not all of us will ever be able to get one. But we can upgrade our occulars to make the most out of the scope we have - plus a premium eyepiece can be a lifetime investment.

My .02,

Ron

--------------------
Time spent looking at the stars is added to your life.

Tak FS-128, C925-CF, C6SE, other stray cats and refractors.
A-P Mach1 GTO
Zeiss orthos to Ethos - and some stuff in between.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
chuckscap
sage


Reged: 07/18/09
Posts: 229
Loc: Colorado Springs, CO USA
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: RAKing]
      #3425196 - 11/02/09 09:52 AM

I agree with David, you may trade up scopes eventually, I have been through 5 scopes and still have some of my original eyepieces. Giving up nothing in performance with the exception of field of view. I'd recommend the TeleVue 32mm plossl and for a higher magnification eyepiece one of the original volcano top University Optics Orthos in 12.5mm and a decent 2x barlow. That will give you focal lenghts of 32, 16, 12.5 and 6.25 mm for about $250.

My two cents ...

Chuck


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike Hosea
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 3957
Loc: "Metrowest" Boston
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: j3ffr0]
      #3425330 - 11/02/09 11:28 AM

Quote:

However, I also think it's likely that you might be just as satisfied with mid-priced EPs like the Hyperions.




I agree with that. Nowadays, there are so many good options in the middle area when it comes to cost.

Just to add something to my previous response, while I wouldn't hesitate to use premium eyepieces on mediocre telescopes, hopefully acquiring finer eyepieces doesn't postpone upgrading the scope! That would be unfortunate.

--------------------
Mike

Stuff that I use:
  • 7" f/6.7 home-built Newt and equatorial platform
  • 6 eyepieces and a Barlow
  • 120mm f/8.3 home-built grab-n-go Newt
  • Canon 15x50 IS and Eagle Optics 12x50 Ranger binoculars



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sean Cunneen
Let Me Think
*****

Reged: 08/01/07
Posts: 1229
Loc: Blue Island Illinois
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Mike Hosea]
      #3425522 - 11/02/09 01:30 PM

I started on my own personal eyepiece journey asking the very same question. From my experience, I have had larger jumps in viewing quality changing eyepieces then scopes. High quality eyepieces show you more in a cheap scope than cheap eyepieces do in an expensive scope. Your scope is not "cheap" BTW, it simply has a narrower range of usefulness than some other designs. Your scope is well suited for wide-field and DSO-finding rather than planetary use, so your money would be well spent on wide-field well corrected eyepieces like a Panoptic or Nagler, 35mm-17mm, something around 100x-125x for Globular clusters and nebula. I would hold off on highpower eyepieces, maybe borrow someone else's first to determine of you like what you see. I highly recommend any of the eyepieces in my signature and my refractor is a longer version of your very scope.
Good luck!
Sean

--------------------
Sean Cunneen
Blue Island, IL
12.5" Ultralight Strut Dob
127mm f/9 refractor
35Pan, 10XW, 5XO
Member of the Calumet Astronomical Society


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cuzimthedad
Just Be Cuz
*****

Reged: 04/09/06
Posts: 3725
Loc: Sonoma, Northern California
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Sean Cunneen]
      #3425553 - 11/02/09 01:46 PM

My first scope was a 3" newt supplied with mediocre eyepieces. On a hunch, I purchased a good plossl and noticed a huge difference in light transmission and the quality of my views. A good eyepiece will always make a poor scope better.

--------------------
Dan

20" f/5 Obsession
Antares 1529
TV102
Various Naglers, Ethos, UO Orthos and TV Plossls

The Off Fisher Lane Irregulars



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Darenwh
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 05/11/06
Posts: 1224
Loc: Covington, GA
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Sean Cunneen]
      #3425588 - 11/02/09 02:10 PM

Basically, as some have said, it comes down to what you see yourself doing in the future. If you believe you are in this hobby to the end then get some decent quality eyepieces and avoid the lower quality eyepieces.

Think of it this way.

Lets assign a number for errors added to the image at each stage.

When the light that you are viewing is on it's way to the scope it is as perfect as possible for that time. Error equals 0.

Optical problems with the first optical element start to hurt the image. Lets say it is an average lens so give it a value of 4. There are dogs out there that could rate much worse but most currently made telescopes have at least OK optics for their design. In that reguard we live in a very good time. A great objective will have a vallue of 1 and an average lens a value of 4 with a poor lens maybe going as high as 8 or (god forbid) a 10.

Once the image has been damaged by that first element it will never be as good as it was. Currently the image is a 4.

Now, each element that follows will do additional damage to the image. Lets take a decent diagonal. Not great but not bad, so we give it a 4. There are not alot of truly bad diagonals on the market so it is likely yours is at least OK. When you decide to upgrade, if you have a 2" focuser, then get a 2" diagonal. It can be used with any eyepiece and is likely to have a larger nearly perfect region than a 1.25".

Ok, Now the image has a cumulated error of 8.

Now, eyepieces can be really bad or really good. So, lets give a range to the eyepiece, 1 to 10. 1 is great, 10 is horrible.

So what will the total error be? If we use a truly excellent eyepiece we only get an error of 1 giving a total of 9, but, if we use an eyepiece that give a poor image we end up with an 18.

In the end, you are not seeing an image that is as bad as the worst component in the optical path, but rather you are seeing an image that is the result of the cumulative damage done to it by all the optical elements. If you strive to get the best you can at each point then in the end you will get the best image you can.

If you get great quallity eyepieces to begin with then you will not only get the best quality image you can out of your current scope, but you will also get the best possible image from that same eyepiece in any scope you get in the future. Doing this, you will feel less need to upgrade eyepieces in the future.

Eyepieces can be expensive. They are more expensive when you buy them over and over again though than they are when you start with quality so you do not have to buy over and over again.

Ok, lets wrap this post up. In the end, you really only need a few eyepieces to have a good collection for viewing. At the wide angle, low power side, you should strive for something with an exit pupil of about 6-7mm's. This will give you a wide angle eyepiece that will make a great finder eyepiece and a great sweeping eyepiece for looking at large areas such as along the Milkyway star clouds. Next, you should try to get a decent mid power eyepiece. Something that will give you about 2mm exit pupil. Last, for high power and planets, I really think the Baader Hyperion Zoom is a great eyepiece. It offers excellent images with a large power range that can be very desirable at higher powers while not being so expensive as to break the bank for most people. With a collection of three eyepieces like this you could go through a truly large number of scopes without needing to upgrade much at all.

--------------------
Daren
Covington, GA


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike Hosea
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 3957
Loc: "Metrowest" Boston
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Sean Cunneen]
      #3425609 - 11/02/09 02:23 PM

I guess the devil's in the details. It depends on what you mean by "changing scopes". I've never seen any eyepiece comparison (of undamaged, mainstream astronomical eyepieces) that even comes close to the improvement I experienced when replacing a Celestar 8 with a 10" Teleport. For that matter, my 7" homebuilt scope replaced an excellent 6" MCT, and no eyepiece change I've ever seen compares with that, either. I'm talking raw axial performance here, not any kind of aesthetic measure.

--------------------
Mike

Stuff that I use:
  • 7" f/6.7 home-built Newt and equatorial platform
  • 6 eyepieces and a Barlow
  • 120mm f/8.3 home-built grab-n-go Newt
  • Canon 15x50 IS and Eagle Optics 12x50 Ranger binoculars



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hfjacinto
Almost got me
*****

Reged: 01/12/09
Posts: 2096
Loc: Union,NJ
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Mike Hosea]
      #3425648 - 11/02/09 02:43 PM

I agree with Mike, I don't think an Ethos on a Celestron first scope is the ideal solution. IMO a good eyepiece on a good scope is the best that most people will want.

I think getting a larger DOB, APO or CAT with a set of good to very good eyepieces will give one the best views at a reasonable cost.

I don't think you need the best to get the best view, most people with an 8" CAT and Hyperion eyepieces are very happy with the views they get. I am a firm believer in the 90% rule which is that the biggest differences come from the first 90% of any purchase, the last 10% are very costly and you will get very little benefit for the last 10%.

--------------------
C9.25 ASGT 9*50 MM Finder,FT Focuser & 2" Diagonal
Meade LXD 75 6 Inch SNT w 9*50 MM Finder
5,6,9,14.5 MM Zhummel Planetary EPs
13,17,21,24,31,36 MM Baader Hyperion
6.7,8.8 MM Meade UWA & 11 MM Nagler T6
Planetary, OIII and Narrowband Filters
Thousand Oaks Dew Control w Kendrick Heaters


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
starrancher
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/09/09
Posts: 620
Loc: Northern Arizona
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Mike Hosea]
      #3425676 - 11/02/09 02:59 PM

My suggestion to the OP is to not be in a hurry to run out & spend all kinds of cash on oculars thinking he will achieve nirvana .

Quote:

On a hunch, I purchased a good plossl and noticed a huge difference in light transmission and the quality of my views.



Plossls are reasonably priced & unless you're looking for a wider AFOV than 50 to 52 degrees , they are undoubtedly the best bang for your buck . (Baader Hyperion Zoom aside) only due to the fact that you get a wide range of focal lengths in one package . I know that the weakest link in the optical chain of my mass produced achromat was the cheap o diagonal that was supplied with it & that was the first thing kicked out of the way by the William Optics Dielectric unit that replaced it . More than replacing oculars at this point I would suggest starting with a good diagonal . (Also mentioned by others in previous replies) . Keep in mind you don't have to spend big bucks to achieve great views , although in the OPs' case where a relatively fast scope is involved , there is some discrepancy to that . I still use nothing but Plossls (Baader Hyperion Zoom aside) & love them . A 52 degree apparent field of view is fine with me & eye relief isn't bothersome either until I get down to the 6.4mm unit . I don't wear glasses so it isn't an issue . All that aside , I use Meade 4000 series Plossls in my f4 Schmidt Newt with excellent results until I get to the lowest end in power using the 32mm unit & the exit pupil is 8mm at that point & showing astigmatism at the edge of field .
It's hard to beat a good Plossl !


--------------------
LXD75 AR5
LXD75 SN8
Series 4000 Plossls
Misc. other stuff


Fort Rock , Az .


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Sean Cunneen
Let Me Think
*****

Reged: 08/01/07
Posts: 1229
Loc: Blue Island Illinois
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Mike Hosea]
      #3425688 - 11/02/09 03:08 PM

The OP is not changing scopes, just eyepieces, so what is better, cheap eyepieces in a cheap scope or expensive eyepieces in a cheap scope. At f5, you will appreciate a well corrected(expensive)eyepiece more, regardless of the scope's price. I guess my original point was that you are better off going with better eyepieces EVEN if you never change scopes.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Darenwh
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 05/11/06
Posts: 1224
Loc: Covington, GA
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: starrancher]
      #3425691 - 11/02/09 03:10 PM

I never said what eyepiece beyond recommending the hyperzoom for a medium to high power eyepiece. I just recommend that good quality eyepieces be purchased. There are many ways to get quality. First, if you don't mind narrow FOV then Ortho's would give excellent views. Plossl's also can be great. If you want to budget a little more then getting Hyperions for the mid and low power are also excellent choices. The most expensive eyepieces, though excellent, are not necessary at all. They sell for both the very well corrected views they provide and the wide or ultrawide angle AFOV they provide.

Getting Wide angle eyepieces that cost considerabley less but provide just as well or all most as well corrected a field is fine. But, when buying, you should concentrate on insuring the eyepieces you are getting are quality.

It is nearly as easy to spend alot of money on poor performers as it is to spend it on good performers and good performers can be had at budget prices if you choose wisely.

--------------------
Daren
Covington, GA


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
hfjacinto
Almost got me
*****

Reged: 01/12/09
Posts: 2096
Loc: Union,NJ
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Darenwh]
      #3425707 - 11/02/09 03:22 PM

I personally think you can see more with a $600 scope and a $49 eyepiece than a $49 scope and a $600 eyepiece.

--------------------
C9.25 ASGT 9*50 MM Finder,FT Focuser & 2" Diagonal
Meade LXD 75 6 Inch SNT w 9*50 MM Finder
5,6,9,14.5 MM Zhummel Planetary EPs
13,17,21,24,31,36 MM Baader Hyperion
6.7,8.8 MM Meade UWA & 11 MM Nagler T6
Planetary, OIII and Narrowband Filters
Thousand Oaks Dew Control w Kendrick Heaters


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SteveTheSwede
member


Reged: 09/28/09
Posts: 18
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Prof M]
      #3425710 - 11/02/09 03:24 PM

Quote:

I have been told two stories: One, don't buy high quality EPs for a low-end scope. Others tell me a good EP improves any telescope. Any ideas as to which view is correct?
Keith




Here's my 2 cents:

First, no eyepiece actually improve a scope. The views are limited by the weakest link in the chain. However, eyepieces that come with (cheap and some not so cheap) scopes tend to actually be the weakest link in the optical chain (i.e. the scope optics are better than the eyepieces). In that case yes, a better eyepiece will most certainly improve the view.

Second, the main question is if you figure you are gonna stay in the hobby. If the answer is yes then it makes sense to buy eyepieces that you can live with a while or forever. Scopes come and go, good eyepieces stick around. Another argument for getting good eyepieces.

Third, having said that, do not go and buy a bunch of ethos. If you wanna spend that sort of money you will get MUCH better views by spending them on a better (bigger) scope. Two ethos will buy you a 12" dob for example. It will give you way better views (with whatever ep's it comes with) than any ethos ever will in your achro.

Fourth, what I would consider the only big mistake is to get a lot of *BLEEP* eyepieces. You'll be much happier with two (or even one) good ones than a whole set of junk in assorted fl's.

So my recommendation would be to start with eyepieces in the high midrange, which is to say Baader Hyperion or equivalent. They are perfectly fine ep's, they will certainly improve your views (assuming you now have some plössls that came with the scope or similar) and they won't cost a fortune.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike Hosea
Post Laureate
*****

Reged: 09/24/03
Posts: 3957
Loc: "Metrowest" Boston
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Sean Cunneen]
      #3425808 - 11/02/09 04:20 PM

Quote:

I guess my original point was that you are better off going with better eyepieces EVEN if you never change scopes.




Yeah, and I agree, but I also said that I wouldn't want the purchase of expensive eyepieces to postpone a meaningful scope upgrade. I'm just taking the OP's assessment of "mediocre scope" at face value.

Obviously people can get to the point where, for whatever reasons, they're not in the market for another scope. In that case, my point about not postponing an upgrade is moot. I'm one to talk, actually. I built my own scope(s), sold my others (even though they were better in some ways), and just plug happily along.

--------------------
Mike

Stuff that I use:
  • 7" f/6.7 home-built Newt and equatorial platform
  • 6 eyepieces and a Barlow
  • 120mm f/8.3 home-built grab-n-go Newt
  • Canon 15x50 IS and Eagle Optics 12x50 Ranger binoculars



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Prof M
member


Reged: 07/26/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Southwest Utah
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Sean Cunneen]
      #3426063 - 11/02/09 06:58 PM

Boy, you all have given me a lot of valuable suggestions for eyepieces. It looks like the weight of opinion is with the view that a good EP will improve the performance of my 120ST. I also like the suggestion that she is a "modest", not a "mediocre" scope.

Keith


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rick Woods
Postmaster
*****

Reged: 01/27/05
Posts: 5684
Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Prof M]
      #3427882 - 11/03/09 05:10 PM

Quote:

It looks like the weight of opinion is with the view that a good EP will improve the performance of my 120ST.



Not improve; only minimize another potential area of performance degradation. The scope will perform the same, you're just trying to keep the eyepiece from degrading what the lens sends it. A good eyepiece will let the scope give you the best it's got.

--------------------
- Rick
14" LX200GPS
Dyslexics Untie!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SteveC
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 06/15/06
Posts: 1775
Loc: The Garden State
Re: Mediocre Scope--High-end EP? new [Re: Rick Woods]
      #3427890 - 11/03/09 05:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It looks like the weight of opinion is with the view that a good EP will improve the performance of my 120ST.



Not improve; only minimize another potential area of performance degradation. The scope will perform the same, you're just trying to keep the eyepiece from degrading what the lens sends it. A good eyepiece will let the scope give you the best it's got.




That's what I call improved performance.

--------------------
SteveC


TEC 140
Intes Micro 715 deluxe
TEC 110 (on order)
SolarMax 40

Losmandy G-11 w/Gemini, DM-6 w/Sky Commander on SV wood tripod, Vixen Skypod

TEC EP Turret, TMB Supermonos, ZAO II, Naglers, 32mm Konig, 24mm Panoptics, 14mm Meade UWA


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)


Extra information
26 registered and 11 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Greg K., Jason B, csa/montana 

Print Thread

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled


Thread views: 534

Jump to

CN Forums Home



Cloudy Nights Sponsor: Astronomics