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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: bgavin]
      #4825889 - 09/24/11 08:27 PM

How much you wanna spend and do you want/need decent eye relief?

Here's my "Ortho" collection, by the way:



My faves are the Pentax SMCs.

- Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (09/24/11 08:32 PM)


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bgavin
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/25/11

Loc: 38°41' x 121°13'
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4825915 - 09/24/11 08:50 PM

You were quite specific about the UO orthos being already soft at f/7, so I'm curious out your herd, which are Exc performers at f/4.7?

The Pentax SMC is a pretty rare bird, and flies in the same rarified atmosphere as the ZAO, ZAO-II.
I'm thinking of something a bit more close to the ground..


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: bgavin]
      #4826125 - 09/24/11 11:48 PM

Honestly no Orthos other, perhaps, than the ZAO-IIs are going to do reasonably well at f/4.7.

How about an 6.7mm ($99), 8.8mm or 11mm ES 82 ($119)?

For about the same price (~$130) you might be able to pick up an 8mm Vixen LVW (my favorite in that series).

At f/4.7, I'd stick with well-corrected designs.

- Jim


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bgavin
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/25/11

Loc: 38°41' x 121°13'
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4826180 - 09/25/11 12:36 AM

I have the ES 4.7mm 6.7mm, 11mm and also 18mm.

I'm surprised at the expected ZAO performance, considering the design is much older than f/4.7 scopes.
I really value your expertise, but this is drifting off topic from the OP's question about UO orthos.

In adhoc daylight terrestrial testing, I don't see any appreciable sharpness/contrast differences between my ES6.7, the BGO 7, the Nagler 9T6, and my Radian 14.
The noticeable difference is with my low-end LERs.
I expected this, as the LER are intended for use in an f/6.2 environment.

If I am fortunate enough to find an AT111EDT, I can try out my orthos at f/7 and see if there is a noticeable improvement.


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buddyjesus
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 07/07/10

Loc: Davison, Michigan
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: bgavin]
      #4826214 - 09/25/11 01:16 AM

That is my dream collection Jim. Please put me in your will!

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astro_baby
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/17/08

Loc: United Kingdom
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: buddyjesus]
      #4826369 - 09/25/11 07:01 AM

Maybe I should have tempered my post a bit then - my Orthos are principally for use in an F9/F10 Refractor and an F15 Mak. I also own an F5 Newt which the Orthos will be used on but they are not the Newts principle eyepieces.

The OP might like this review
http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1935


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tomchris
professor emeritus


Reged: 12/22/10

Loc: Connecticut, U.S.A.
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4826591 - 09/25/11 10:40 AM

Quote:


Here's my "Ortho" collection, by the way:



My faves are the Pentax SMCs.

- Jim




Good grief, Jim -- what does your WHOLE ep collection look like? Just kidding-- but I guess you'd be the person to ask re: orthos!


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bgavin
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/25/11

Loc: 38°41' x 121°13'
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: tomchris]
      #4826642 - 09/25/11 11:22 AM

It looks like the entire UO volcano series is present in that photo..

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astro_baby
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/17/08

Loc: United Kingdom
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: bgavin]
      #4826679 - 09/25/11 11:45 AM

Heck - I'd never get any observing done with that much choice. I'd be constantly swapping to get a better view and dithering over which was going to work best. How do you ever choose what you going to use with that lot ?

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skypilgrim
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/25/06

Loc: PNW, US
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: FeynmanFan]
      #4826707 - 09/25/11 12:07 PM

I have owned and still own both styles, (volcano top and HD), for years and consider the eye relief advantage of the volcano top to be a myth.

On both styles the eye lens is right at the top of the black housing and unless you have a very small eye socket you eye can get just as close with either one without bumping into the housing.

Psychologically it does seem like the volcano tops should be more comfortable but in practice there is no difference. Just my humble opinion.

Not challenging anyone here, just stating my own experience.

Cheers - Sam


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kepheus
sage
*****

Reged: 10/11/09

Loc: Germany
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: skypilgrim]
      #4826978 - 09/25/11 02:42 PM

Hi Melanie!

Quote:

Heck - I'd never get any observing done with that much choice. I'd be constantly swapping to get a better view and dithering over which was going to work best. How do you ever choose what you going to use with that lot ?




I guess that Jim does not use any of these eyepieces at all. Probably, even his World Cup winning 7mm Meade RGO might stay in his eyepiece case all the time. Why do I think so? Because Jim is neither a sinner, nor is he a heathen.
You can read the whole story here: please not yet another....

Regards, Brend.


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great_bear
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/05/09

Loc: Walthamstow, London, UK
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: skypilgrim]
      #4828100 - 09/26/11 06:55 AM

Quote:

I [...] consider the eye relief advantage of the volcano top to be a myth. On both styles the eye lens is right at the top of the black housing and unless you have a very small eye socket you eye can get just as close with either one without bumping into the housing.




The reason why people find the volcano-tops more comfortable is that - whilst what you say is true - on the VTs one's eyelashes don't brush the eyepiece housing quite so much.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: bgavin]
      #4828368 - 09/26/11 10:57 AM

Note that I specified ZAO-IIs. They are better corrected for fast scopes than the ZAO-Is. But in any case, the ZAO-Is debuted after the Dob revolution was well underway; in 1997 if memory serves. Don't confuse the ZAO-Is and ZAO-IIs with Carl Zeiss Jena Orthos (the little 0.965" T-topped units), which are much older and fare much worse in very fast instruments.

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: astro_baby]
      #4828379 - 09/26/11 11:03 AM

"How do you ever choose what you going to use with that lot ?"



I never field more than a handful of eyepieces at a time. I make the gear selection decision a day or two before the session, and stick to my plan when I pack up to hit the field.

Now the gear selection phase can be agonizing, but I usually pick gear after I pull my target list together. In turn, I build my list based on site, season and expected length of the session. With targets in mind and a particular scope selected, it makes eyepiece selection a bit easier.

That said, I have more eyepieces than I need, and seem to have developed a mildly alarming hoarding habit.

- Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: great_bear]
      #4828389 - 09/26/11 11:07 AM

I certainly find the volcano top design to be more comfortable for the reason you state; there's nothing for eyelashes to contact (especially in the shorter focal lengths where eye relief is scarcest).

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #4828402 - 09/26/11 11:13 AM

Okay, here's a fun little quiz. In the Ortho picture, how many non-Abbe-Orthoscopics (i.e., having other than 4-elements in two groups, with a 1-3 configuration) can you spot?

Regards,

Jim


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
*****

Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: bgavin]
      #4828422 - 09/26/11 11:22 AM

"It looks like the entire UO volcano series is present in that photo."

Yep, all of the UO Abbes are there, as are the entire Meade Research Grade Ortho series, the entire Pentax SMC Ortho series and the entire Apogee Super Abbe Ortho series, and an almost complete set of Takahashi MC Orthos (missing 9mm and 5mm only), with two of the CZJ Orthos to round out the photo. Missing are the Pentax XOs and XP, which are quasi Orthos, but likely should have been pictured for completeness.

- Jim


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skypilgrim
Pooh-Bah
*****

Reged: 12/25/06

Loc: PNW, US
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: great_bear]
      #4828555 - 09/26/11 12:29 PM

Quote:



The reason why people find the volcano-tops more comfortable is that... on the VTs one's eyelashes don't brush the eyepiece housing quite so much.




If I'm that close I have that problem with any eyepiece...
I've found one more advantage to the HD style over the VT's.
In any light polluted environment light can reflect off the beveled top while the filled in tops of the HDs actually block the unwanted incoming light.

Guess that's why we get to share all of our different opinions...
Sam


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astro_baby
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 06/17/08

Loc: United Kingdom
Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: skypilgrim]
      #4828859 - 09/26/11 03:12 PM

Jim,

Working your eyepieces out before a session would just stall me further back in the chain. I'd probably spend so long umming and ahhing over what to take the clouds would have moved in.

Its bad enough with three scopes to choose from. I could take the TAL (yeah but the views wont be as good, on the other hand it will be light to carry, but on the other hand its too beautiful to risk - it might rain).
So ok then I'll take the Mak (yes but the Moons not up so you'd get better DSO views with the newt, the maks heavy, you need dew control but on the other hand its compact and the easiest to transport, but on the other hand think of the cool down).
OK its the newt then (you sure Mel - its very heavy and bulky, a real pain to lug about and the collimation wont be perfect either but on the plus side its got good views for DSOs but then again you might get there and find you'd rather look at a planet in which case you should take the mak)

On and on it goes and what usually gets taken is what I can be bothered to pack, whats not in bits on another OCD inspired 'improvement' program and modification etc etc and what I 'feel' like using.

With an eyepiece collection that size I just know (much as I'd like the eyepieces) they would become a curse as choice often is. I sometimes wish I had just stuck with a 4.5" reflector and a collection of cheesy Kelners and Ramsdens - life was soooooo much simpler


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mike bacanin
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 03/19/07

Re: University Abbe Orthoscopics new [Re: astro_baby]
      #4829828 - 09/27/11 03:09 AM

Hi Mel,

Yes,its often a compromise. I'm sure you will enjoy the orthos you have,especially in the mak,their planetary performance for such a reasonable cost is hard to beat. The current KK offerings to me seem to have nice coatings, maybe a little better than the old versions, i may be wrong though. Btw, as Jim well knows, the Meade Research Grade orthos are great performers, and can be had sometimes for about 45-55 here in the UK.

Regards
Mike


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