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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's?
      #5112529 - 03/08/12 10:06 PM

Currently have several 27mm - 36mm's:


L-R: Panoptic 27mm, UWA-80 30mm, Proxima 31mm, Siebert 36mm Observatory Series (together with TMB Paragon 40, GSO 42mm)


Meade SWA 28 & 34mm Series 5000

Placed an ad at A-mart for an RKE 28mm and found one - it's on the way (eyepiece #71 in the stable); what can be expected of this eyepiece compared to those in above pics? So excited to receive and try out the new EP. Thanks.

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5112601 - 03/08/12 11:12 PM

Asked the seller to send me a pic and got this one (posted with permission):



Any idea if this is the new type or an older version? Thanks.

Best,


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Bob Clift
sage


Reged: 03/22/05

Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5112907 - 03/09/12 06:48 AM

The red grippy band is new, the older ones were plain metal. I assume the optical design is unchanged

Have a look here for a biiiiig thread about the joys of the RKE 28.


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dan_h
Carpal Tunnel


Reged: 12/10/07

Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Bob Clift]
      #5113057 - 03/09/12 09:14 AM

Quote:

The red grippy band is new, the older ones were plain metal. I assume the optical design is unchanged






I purchased my RKEs the early 80's so they are now about 30 years old. They all have a red grippy band. (8,15 & 28mm.)

dan


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Jaimo!
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Reged: 10/11/07

Loc: Exit 135 / 40° North
Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5113060 - 03/09/12 09:16 AM

Quote:

what can be expected of this eyepiece compared to those in above pics?




Hernando, you need to compare these to your stable unbiased, and then report your findings... If someone tells you what to expect you will have a bias and may subconsciously agree. But if you go in unbiased what you learn and the opinions you gain are MUCH more valuable. I'd love to hear your opinions after a few evening of comparisons.

By the way, nice looking eyepieces.

Jaimo!


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Bob Clift
sage


Reged: 03/22/05

Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: dan_h]
      #5113069 - 03/09/12 09:21 AM

Quote:

so they are now about 30 years old. They all have a red grippy band. (8,15 & 28mm.)

dan




That all? They're youngsters! If you're thinking of selling them, don't forget to put 'Factory fresh' in the ad

Didn't realise the red n black look went back that far, mine was bought 2nd hand so I've no idea how old it actually is apart from 'old'.


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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5113077 - 03/09/12 09:26 AM

Quote:

Currently have several 27mm - 36mm's:


L-R: Panoptic 27mm, UWA-80 30mm, Proxima 31mm, Seibert 36mm Observatory Series (together with TMB Paragon 40, GSO 42mm)


Meade SWA 28 & 34mm Series 5000

Placed an ad at A-mart for an RKE 28mm and found one - it's on the way (eyepiece #71 in the stable); what can be expected of this eyepiece compared to those in above pics? So excited to receive and try out the new EP. Thanks.

Best,




A unique experience compared to all of those. Smaller FOV, more critical eye placement, but definitely a unique view.

Quite a bit lighter weight than all of those as well.

Keep an open mind. The view will grow on you. Remember to back your eye off a ways if you get blackouts. Loooong eye relief.

I think the older with no grippy band is the 1 1/8 marking type.

I have the 28mm SWA which is a great eyepiece, but I often grab the RKE because it offers up quite a different view. In my opinion, it shows brighter images. Can't say that would be for everyone though. This is for either older or newer with grippy band. They are identical when taken apart, and I can't tell the difference.


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TMK
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5113089 - 03/09/12 09:32 AM

Your quite lucky Hernando. I've been keeping an eye out for the 28mm for quite some time on the used market and it's a tough one to land.

I have the red banded 15mm and I really love it. I'm surprised it doesn't get more fanfare. Good luck and again congrats on finding the 28mm.


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SATMAN
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Reged: 12/02/07

Loc: NJ 39.7 lat., -74.3 long
Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: TMK]
      #5114033 - 03/09/12 07:11 PM

You will really enjoy the RKE's they are a well kept secret vintage eyepieces , I originally bought mine in 1978 they as far as I know have always had the red grip band , they work extremely well in longer focal length Telescopes. See my post in the classic telescopes forum " suprise set of RKE eyepieces"

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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Bob Clift]
      #5114151 - 03/09/12 09:01 PM

Quote:

The red grippy band is new, the older ones were plain metal. I assume the optical design is unchanged

Have a look here for a biiiiig thread about the joys of the RKE 28.




Thanks for the link - such a long thread and have only gone through its latter pages, driving me over the edge into getting one.

Best,


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Bob Clift
sage


Reged: 03/22/05

Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: SATMAN]
      #5114155 - 03/09/12 09:01 PM

What's under the red band? Mine's just got a ring of grooves, it came as is with no band, perhaps it lost it?

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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: dan_h]
      #5114160 - 03/09/12 09:05 PM

Quote:

I purchased my RKEs the early 80's so they are now about 30 years old. They all have a red grippy band. (8,15 & 28mm.)




So there's no way to tell if a unit is from the 80's or if it's from the more recent batch? I guess it wouldn't matter so long as they're optically equivalent.

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Jaimo!]
      #5114167 - 03/09/12 09:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

what can be expected of this eyepiece compared to those in above pics?




Hernando, you need to compare these to your stable unbiased, and then report your findings... If someone tells you what to expect you will have a bias and may subconsciously agree. But if you go in unbiased what you learn and the opinions you gain are MUCH more valuable. I'd love to hear your opinions after a few evening of comparisons.

By the way, nice looking eyepieces.




Thanks Jaimo! If possible, will bat for an unbiased comparison and post opinions when I've gotten hold of the EP.

Best,


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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5114175 - 03/09/12 09:16 PM

Quote:

A unique experience compared to all of those. Smaller FOV, more critical eye placement, but definitely a unique view.

Quite a bit lighter weight than all of those as well.

Keep an open mind. The view will grow on you. Remember to back your eye off a ways if you get blackouts. Loooong eye relief.

I think the older with no grippy band is the 1 1/8 marking type.

I have the 28mm SWA which is a great eyepiece, but I often grab the RKE because it offers up quite a different view. In my opinion, it shows brighter images. Can't say that would be for everyone though. This is for either older or newer with grippy band. They are identical when taken apart, and I can't tell the difference.




Thanks, reading this certainly heightened the curiosity and anticipation for the RKE28. Glad to know the older & newer versions are internally identical.

Best,


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ibase
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: TMK]
      #5114178 - 03/09/12 09:17 PM

Quote:

Your quite lucky Hernando. I've been keeping an eye out for the 28mm for quite some time on the used market and it's a tough one to land.

I have the red banded 15mm and I really love it. I'm surprised it doesn't get more fanfare. Good luck and again congrats on finding the 28mm.




Thanks Tom; it was a shot in the dark and I too was pleasantly surprised that one came up in such a short time.

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: SATMAN]
      #5114181 - 03/09/12 09:19 PM

Quote:

You will really enjoy the RKE's they are a well kept secret vintage eyepieces , I originally bought mine in 1978 they as far as I know have always had the red grip band , they work extremely well in longer focal length Telescopes. See my post in the classic telescopes forum " suprise set of RKE eyepieces"




Thanks! I'll visit that thread/post at the classic telescope forum.

Thanks everybody for the responses, really appreciated 'em!

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Bob Clift]
      #5114248 - 03/09/12 10:16 PM

Quote:

What's under the red band? Mine's just got a ring of grooves, it came as is with no band, perhaps it lost it?




Couldn't tell as I haven't received the EP yet, but here's another pic from the seller (posted with permission):



Can't seem to find the ring of grooves in there. I hope nothing got lost or anything, thanks.

Best,


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
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Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5114348 - 03/09/12 11:33 PM

Quote:

I have the 28mm SWA which is a great eyepiece, but I often grab the RKE because it offers up quite a different view. In my opinion, it shows brighter images. Can't say that would be for everyone though. This is for either older or newer with grippy band. They are identical when taken apart, and I can't tell the difference.




This says SHOOT OUT all over it !!!

Cheers,


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Vondragonnoggin
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Loc: Southern CA, USA
Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5114794 - 03/10/12 09:36 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have the 28mm SWA which is a great eyepiece, but I often grab the RKE because it offers up quite a different view. In my opinion, it shows brighter images. Can't say that would be for everyone though. This is for either older or newer with grippy band. They are identical when taken apart, and I can't tell the difference.




This says SHOOT OUT all over it !!!

Cheers,






Two things -

I'm not worthy and my pair is shipping to Canada next week to assist in some testing of another instrument.

I will have to resort to using the most excellent Meade 28 SWA exclusively for a little bit.



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Bob Clift
sage


Reged: 03/22/05

Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5114912 - 03/10/12 10:42 AM

You're welcome Hernando

There's another thread worth trying to find in the eyepieces forum, "Favorite eyepieces" or something similar. Lots of mentions of the usual multi-$$$$$ high-end suspects, as you'd expect, but also a lot of mentions of the RKE 28, including from the high-end-owners.


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5115074 - 03/10/12 12:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I have the 28mm SWA which is a great eyepiece, but I often grab the RKE because it offers up quite a different view. In my opinion, it shows brighter images. Can't say that would be for everyone though. This is for either older or newer with grippy band. They are identical when taken apart, and I can't tell the difference.




This says SHOOT OUT all over it !!!




Looking forward to this!

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5115076 - 03/10/12 12:21 PM

Quote:

..the most excellent Meade 28 SWA..




+ 1

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Bob Clift]
      #5115081 - 03/10/12 12:26 PM

Quote:

You're welcome Hernando

There's another thread worth trying to find in the eyepieces forum, "Favorite eyepieces" or something similar. Lots of mentions of the usual multi-$$$$$ high-end suspects, as you'd expect, but also a lot of mentions of the RKE 28, including from the high-end-owners.




Thanks again Bob; wow, for something that I paid $42 for, it sure is a comforting thought that the RKE 28mm is among the pantheon of "Favorite eyepieces," walking tall with expensive hi-end EP's!

Best,


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Bob Clift
sage


Reged: 03/22/05

Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5115155 - 03/10/12 01:05 PM

Oh, you got a goodie and no doubt just don't expect a flat-field view, and you'll be fine, the RKE will distort at the edges, but you won't care

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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Bob Clift]
      #5115175 - 03/10/12 01:20 PM

Quote:

Oh, you got a goodie and no doubt just don't expect a flat-field view, and you'll be fine, the RKE will distort at the edges, but you won't care




Thanks, nicely put, I'm liking it already!

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5146096 - 03/28/12 08:36 PM

After some anguished wait for the internationally shipped package, finally received the RKE 28mm:


RKE 28mm with the accordion rubber boot

It's the "Scientific" version, posted more pics & initial impressions here.

Best,


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pftarch
professor emeritus


Reged: 09/21/07

Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5146223 - 03/28/12 10:16 PM

You absolutely, positively, definitely HAVE to try it without the boot to get the true "I've lost the eyepiece and all I see is the universe on my deck" feeling.

Feel free to use or not use the funky boot later on (I like mine for solar viewing during the day) but regardless of excessive eye relief and having to cup the bootless eyepiece to block out your neighbors lights, the view without the boot at night is the magic part. Less than great coatings, unblackened edges, no lens caps, less field of view than a cheap plossl, too much eye relief, IT DOESN"T MATTER. Point it at the Orion Nebula, you'll see..............

p.s. buy two and put 'em in a binoviewer....I did


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: pftarch]
      #5146502 - 03/29/12 03:58 AM

Thanks for the tips about the rubber boot! I do have a WO binoviewer, we'll see, if it works out right for me, I just might go double on these 28mm's, thanks!

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5154021 - 04/02/12 11:56 PM

Finally, skies partially cleared up last night to enable use of the RKE 28 briefly, posted some findings on a new blog post here.


Meade SWA 28mm 5K; RKE 28mm

Best,


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Jaimo!
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5154357 - 04/03/12 09:16 AM

Lovely review Hernando!

Jaimo!


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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Jaimo!]
      #5154362 - 04/03/12 09:22 AM

Yes, great review. I particularly liked the picture of the conga drum to explain the floating effect. That was right on the money! Shows you obviously experienced the full effect too. I too like it barlowed, but mostly barlowed in a Telecentric as the eye relief is already long enough.

Anyways - great write up.


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5155235 - 04/03/12 08:06 PM

Jaimo!, Vondragonnoggin, thank you very much!

Best,


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BKBrown
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5155319 - 04/03/12 09:02 PM

Great review Hernando, right on the money with your description. I experienced the same very entertaining "floating" effect...as well as the less-than-stellar off axis performance. One of my big take aways has been the need for very exact eye placement if you want to hold the image. A novel and interesting ocular, but the jury is still out for me on whether or not it will make the cut in the long run.

Clear Skies,
Brian


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BKBrown]
      #5155414 - 04/03/12 10:33 PM

Thanks Brian, very glad you like the review (I'm a big admirer of your exemplary lunar & planetary images). Yes, the RKE 28mm does require some getting used to with regards to exact eye placement because of its rather long ER; like all other EP's the RKE isn't perfect and has its limitations, but I understand now the reason why so many are enamored with and rave about it, although it's not for everyone too; I do intend to keep it though if only for the charm and novelty of the floating views it is able to regale its user.

Best,


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ErnieM
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Reged: 06/13/04

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5155454 - 04/03/12 10:59 PM

Thanks for the review Hernando.I am with you in that the 27 PAN is also my favorite but far more expensive.For the big difference in dollars the RKE is a great option for someone just starting out.

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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ErnieM]
      #5155505 - 04/03/12 11:36 PM

Thanks and right you are Ernie! For $62, it's one of the true "best buy" bargains in this age and millennial of high-priced oculars, unique not only for its prized jaw-dropping views, but at the same time, also a winner in its affordable price point.

Best,


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Simoes Pedro
sage
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Reged: 02/03/09

Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5155744 - 04/04/12 07:33 AM

Hi Hernando,

I can guarantee yours is not in the most recent housing. Yours reads Edmund Scientific. That brand ceased to exist in the 70's.

I have purchased a set of RKE's from Edmund optics. They came in three different barrel types. I have only kept the 28mm, which was the only one in a modern barrel. By the way, the 8mm arrived chipped.

15, 12 and 8mm models have too tight eye relief to have any use.

28.7mm model(28mm) feels special, due to the famous "eyepiece vanish effect".

I have read on you blog - nice blog by the way - it exhibited field curvature on your f5.9 scope. Do you have a higher focal ratio scope to try it on?

I have a f8 scope and the field curvature problem is not that prominent.

I will post pictures of mine as soon as I can.

I am tempted to machine to field stop to meet the barrel inner diameter. this will yield about 60º of AFOV.

ATTENTION: Do not unscrew the barrel with the field lens facing down. The optics will fall on the floor.

Congratulations on your purchase. It will be a future classic


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BillB9430
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Reged: 12/02/06

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5155843 - 04/04/12 09:15 AM

I bought an Edmund 1 1/8" "Kellner" new nearly 50 years ago (still have and use it) and now just received a new 28 mm RKE. Both are nice eyepieces, but I do like the defined field stop in the RKE instead than the rather reflective inner barrel visible in the old "Kellner". I will use the RKE without the rubber eye guard that was sent in the package, but offer this caution for those who try that guard. In applying the rubber eye guard to the eyepiece, I carelessly allowed the forward edge to brush the field lens. Big mistake! Apparently there is some material on the rubber that transfers to the glass, making a mark. It was NOT removable with my standard lens cleaner! Fortunately, a little acetone on a Q-tip removed the mark completely. If you don't have acetone handy, be very careful. -Bill

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Vondragonnoggin
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Reged: 02/21/10

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BillB9430]
      #5155867 - 04/04/12 09:31 AM

Hernando, keep using the RKE. It will grow on you the more you use it. The eye placement issue becomes a non-issue very fast. I thought it was a cool eyepiece when I first used mine, but after some time using it, I moved it to the "must keep" category and it has become one of my most used eyepieces. Sometimes I just go out and view with a 2x barlow, a 5x Powermate, and the 28mm RKE. Three magnifications all with that floaty effect and barlowing it gets rid of any edge artifacts.

I am waiting for Explore Scientiics barlows to come out. I think they are reintroducing the Meade 5000 series teleXtenders in 1.25". I have a 2", 2x TeleXtender, but really want the 1.25" 2x, and 3x teleXtender telecentrics. With a 2x, 3x, and 5x Telecentric design, I'll get the 28mm RKE in 4 magnifications and no added eye relief. Hmmmm, maybe a 2.5 Powermate is in order to make the 28 RKE an eyepiece case application.



I also saw you noticed the 45 degree AFOV appears wider in use. I think it does too.

Now that I'm thinking about this, all those telecentrics plus my 28 RKE and 35mm Parks Gold would be just about everything I'd need to be happy with my views and make the rest of my eyepieces collect dust.

I think I just created my list for purchases....

Edited by Vondragonnoggin (04/04/12 09:37 AM)


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BillB9430]
      #5155941 - 04/04/12 10:28 AM

Quote:

I bought an Edmund 1 1/8" "Kellner" new nearly 50 years ago (still have and use it) and now just received a new 28 mm RKE.




If you take the 1-1/8" apart, you will find it is not a Kellner but an asymetrical Plossl design, perhaps a Clave-style Plossl. So it is 4 elements in 2 groups.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5155990 - 04/04/12 10:59 AM Attachment (26 downloads)

I've got the 28mm RKE from 1981 and like it a lot. It came with a Edmund 8 f5 #4001 ota.
I usually use the eyecup.
Some 1980's Edmunds ads reads 60* but 45 degree is more like it unless some where 60*
Another RKE I've seen but never owned is the 8mm Wide angle.
Anyone have info of these and where there others.
Any ways, good purchase.
Clear Skies
Sam


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: planet earth]
      #5156031 - 04/04/12 11:28 AM

Quote:

Another RKE I've seen but never owned is the 8mm Wide angle.




Edmunds sells these with their Plossls. It however is not a Plossl but a positive-negative design (i.e., it has a Smyth group in the barrel). Stats on it are (my measures):

Eye Relief = 8.5mm (from housing), 9.5mm (from lens surface)
AFOV = 59.7 deg
Eye Lens Diameter = 13.6mm

Here's my first light report with the Plossl line - Thread.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BillP]
      #5156080 - 04/04/12 12:13 PM

Thanks Bill
Clear Skies
Sam


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: planet earth]
      #5156197 - 04/04/12 01:54 PM

>I have read on you blog - nice blog by the way - it exhibited >field curvature on your f5.9 scope. Do you have a higher >focal ratio scope to try it on?

Yup - on my rich field there is noticeable softness towards the edge but on my 100mm F13 Carton...

Sublime just about describes it.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5156228 - 04/04/12 02:19 PM

Are edmund plossl, asymmetrical design?

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Simoes Pedro]
      #5156641 - 04/04/12 07:33 PM

Thanks Simoes Pedro! And thanks too for all the info on the RKE's!

Yes, this RKE28 on hand is the "Edmund Scientific" version, which Vondragonnoggin (who owned both) had mentioned was optically same as the "Edmund Optics" version.

Will be trying out the RKE28 in my other scopes - F/12.9 Nexstar 4SE Mak, 4" refrac F/7 William Optics Megrez 102ED, F/10 SCT C8, 5" refractor F/7.5 Antares 1529 and an F/5 Orion ST80.

Looking forward to seeing the pic, and any machining developments.

Quote:

Hi Hernando,

I can guarantee yours is not in the most recent housing. Yours reads Edmund Scientific. That brand ceased to exist in the 70's.

I have purchased a set of RKE's from Edmund optics. They came in three different barrel types. I have only kept the 28mm, which was the only one in a modern barrel. By the way, the 8mm arrived chipped.

15, 12 and 8mm models have too tight eye relief to have any use.

28.7mm model(28mm) feels special, due to the famous "eyepiece vanish effect".

I have read on you blog - nice blog by the way - it exhibited field curvature on your f5.9 scope. Do you have a higher focal ratio scope to try it on?

I have a f8 scope and the field curvature problem is not that prominent.

I will post pictures of mine as soon as I can.

I am tempted to machine to field stop to meet the barrel inner diameter. this will yield about 60º of AFOV.

ATTENTION: Do not unscrew the barrel with the field lens facing down. The optics will fall on the floor.

Congratulations on your purchase. It will be a future classic




Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BillB9430]
      #5156669 - 04/04/12 07:52 PM

Quote:

I bought an Edmund 1 1/8" "Kellner" new nearly 50 years ago (still have and use it) and now just received a new 28 mm RKE. Both are nice eyepieces, but I do like the defined field stop in the RKE instead than the rather reflective inner barrel visible in the old "Kellner". I will use the RKE without the rubber eye guard that was sent in the package, but offer this caution for those who try that guard. In applying the rubber eye guard to the eyepiece, I carelessly allowed the forward edge to brush the field lens. Big mistake! Apparently there is some material on the rubber that transfers to the glass, making a mark. It was NOT removable with my standard lens cleaner! Fortunately, a little acetone on a Q-tip removed the mark completely. If you don't have acetone handy, be very careful. -Bill




Thanks Bill, yes putting the rubber boot on can be quite tricky the first time around, struggled with it too when I tried it out initially.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5156689 - 04/04/12 08:03 PM

Quote:

Hernando, keep using the RKE. It will grow on you the more you use it. The eye placement issue becomes a non-issue very fast. I thought it was a cool eyepiece when I first used mine, but after some time using it, I moved it to the "must keep" category and it has become one of my most used eyepieces. Sometimes I just go out and view with a 2x barlow, a 5x Powermate, and the 28mm RKE. Three magnifications all with that floaty effect and barlowing it gets rid of any edge artifacts.

I am waiting for Explore Scientiics barlows to come out. I think they are reintroducing the Meade 5000 series teleXtenders in 1.25". I have a 2", 2x TeleXtender, but really want the 1.25" 2x, and 3x teleXtender telecentrics. With a 2x, 3x, and 5x Telecentric design, I'll get the 28mm RKE in 4 magnifications and no added eye relief. Hmmmm, maybe a 2.5 Powermate is in order to make the 28 RKE an eyepiece case application.



I also saw you noticed the 45 degree AFOV appears wider in use. I think it does too.

Now that I'm thinking about this, all those telecentrics plus my 28 RKE and 35mm Parks Gold would be just about everything I'd need to be happy with my views and make the rest of my eyepieces collect dust.

I think I just created my list for purchases....




Thanks Eric, yes the possibility of the RKE28 growing on me is positive, and am sure it will be a better match, edge-wise, on one of my slower scopes. Will try it with my Powermate 2.5x barlow too, it's just that I'm no great fan of using barlows (also have the TV 2x, 3x, and 2" ones like the Antares 1.6x and GSO ED 2x), and find them a bit unwieldy to use, except the compact 2.25x; but will try these out with the RKE28 when the opportunity arises. And yes, the views looked wider than 45° to me too, which is a pleasant finding. That's a fine prospect using only 2 EP's w/barlows, very minimalist - if it works out well for you, great! Thanks again.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BillP]
      #5156698 - 04/04/12 08:09 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I bought an Edmund 1 1/8" "Kellner" new nearly 50 years ago (still have and use it) and now just received a new 28 mm RKE.




If you take the 1-1/8" apart, you will find it is not a Kellner but an asymetrical Plossl design, perhaps a Clave-style Plossl. So it is 4 elements in 2 groups.




Thanks for chiming in Bill. Been curious for sometime already about the Clave plossl, hmmm..

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: planet earth]
      #5156707 - 04/04/12 08:15 PM

Quote:

I've got the 28mm RKE from 1981 and like it a lot. It came with a Edmund 8 f5 #4001 ota.
I usually use the eyecup.
Some 1980's Edmunds ads reads 60* but 45 degree is more like it unless some where 60*
Another RKE I've seen but never owned is the 8mm Wide angle.
Anyone have info of these and where there others.
Any ways, good purchase.
Clear Skies
Sam





Thanks Sam, glad you like much the RKE28 and nice pic too, thanks for posting. Doesn't the rubber eyecup cancel the "floating" effect on you? That's good if it doesn't, as it does for me. The bigger than 45° view was my impression, will have to look more into that, thanks.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Andy Taylor]
      #5156765 - 04/04/12 09:18 PM

Quote:

>I have read on you blog - nice blog by the way - it exhibited >field curvature on your f5.9 scope. Do you have a higher >focal ratio scope to try it on?

Yup - on my rich field there is noticeable softness towards the edge but on my 100mm F13 Carton...
Sublime just about describes it.




Thanks Andy; I'll try the RKE28 with my F/12.9 4" Nexstar mak and see how it fares on the slower scope - I like the word you chose to describe it, "sublime."

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5157317 - 04/05/12 09:50 AM Attachment (29 downloads)

Here goes a picture of mine

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Simoes Pedro]
      #5157465 - 04/05/12 11:17 AM

Thanks, nice pics! They look like the one I have, except for the "Optics" part - so you mean this "Edmund Scientific" version of mine goes all the way back to before the 70's? (p.s. glad you like the blog, thanks)

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5157478 - 04/05/12 11:28 AM

I believe so. This is what I could find in wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Scientific_Corporation

The 70's information could be wrong.

When the company was split in the 1970's, edmund optics kept producing the eyepieces (as they still do to this day). It is fair to assume they were relabeled at that time.

Edmund Scientific was split into Edmund Optics and Edmund Scientifics (note the "s"). Scientifics also sell an eyepiece line, which are labeled "edmund scientific" (no "s")

http://www.scientificsonline.com/edmund-scientific-plossl-eyepieces-10012.html


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Simoes Pedro]
      #5157565 - 04/05/12 12:33 PM

Thanks for the links! Considering that this "Scientific" RKE28 could date back to the 70's, I think if given the choice, I'd prefer it to the current version, all things considered equal optically, there's something about old vintage optics that make 'em more appealing to some. Wish EP's were like wine - the better they become as they age.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BillP]
      #5167205 - 04/11/12 04:41 PM

Quote:

If you take the 1-1/8" apart, you will find it is not a Kellner but an asymetrical Plossl design, perhaps a Clave-style Plossl. So it is 4 elements in 2 groups.




Sorry, for the late response... I've been away.

1 1/8" Edmunds "Pre-RKE":


Jaimo!


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Jaimo!]
      #5167877 - 04/12/12 01:28 AM

Very nice dis-assembly photo Jaimo!, thanks for posting!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5167947 - 04/12/12 05:45 AM Attachment (20 downloads)

My 1-1/4" Edmund Scientific RKE28 looks different inside.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Warren914]
      #5168134 - 04/12/12 09:20 AM

Thanks for posting your exploded view! Yes, very obvious difference is that the lens edges are not blackened in your RKE28mm version. Not sure if the optical performance is identical.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5168181 - 04/12/12 09:57 AM

Quote:

Thanks for posting your exploded view! Yes, very obvious difference is that the lens edges are not blackened in your RKE28mm version. Not sure if the optical performance is identical.

Best,




The RKE is a 3 element 2 group eyepiece. It also has a field stop in the barrel.

The 1-1/8" is a 4 element 2 group eyepiece. It has no field stop and uses the barrel as the field stop whcich gives it about 10 degrees more AFOV than the RKE.

Performance-wise both give the "floating" effect they are famous for. I do notice a subtly better performance on-axis for planetary with the 1-1/8" over the RKE, giving a little more clarity and apparent contrast, which is why I prefer those over the RKE for bino with a 3.5x for planetary. It is subtle, but there to my eye.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BillP]
      #5168535 - 04/12/12 01:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks for posting your exploded view! Yes, very obvious difference is that the lens edges are not blackened in your RKE28mm version. Not sure if the optical performance is identical.

Best,




The RKE is a 3 element 2 group eyepiece. It also has a field stop in the barrel.

The 1-1/8" is a 4 element 2 group eyepiece. It has no field stop and uses the barrel as the field stop whcich gives it about 10 degrees more AFOV than the RKE.

Performance-wise both give the "floating" effect they are famous for. I do notice a subtly better performance on-axis for planetary with the 1-1/8" over the RKE, giving a little more clarity and apparent contrast, which is why I prefer those over the RKE for bino with a 3.5x for planetary. It is subtle, but there to my eye.




Thanks much for explaining the differences and for sharing your experience with the vintage and more recent RKE28's. Will be looking out for the 1-1/8" version to add to the stable, but doubt if there are owners willing to part with them at this time.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Bob Clift]
      #5173450 - 04/15/12 10:33 AM

For the handful of people on CN who do not have an Edmund 28mm RKE yet, Surplus Shed has them (unused) in their "New This Week" category now (April 15) for $35! If you put "Please apply my discount" in the Comments box, you'll get 15% off THAT for just $29.75! If you are a VIP member of Surplus Shed, there's another 10% off and free shipping, too (otherwise shipping is $5). Seems like a no-brainer if you don't have one of these eyepieces yet.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BillB9430]
      #5173871 - 04/15/12 02:56 PM

Quote:

For the handful of people on CN who do not have an Edmund 28mm RKE yet, Surplus Shed has them (unused) in their "New This Week" category now (April 15) for $35! If you put "Please apply my discount" in the Comments box, you'll get 15% off THAT for just $29.75!




Good tip, thanks. I have had a 15mm RKE for 30+ years and have always loved it. However, no soap on the "Please apply my discount" unless they are going to apply it manually later. Looks like they charged me $35 plus shipping.

Still, even at $35 it's a no-brainer. That's just a little over half price.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: rdandrea]
      #5173973 - 04/15/12 04:11 PM

rdandrea, Surplus Shed usually applies the discount when they charge your card just before shipping, so you may get that discount after all. The extra discount deal is good for orders through tomorrow only, however.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BillB9430]
      #5174000 - 04/15/12 04:32 PM

Quote:

rdandrea, Surplus Shed usually applies the discount when they charge your card just before shipping, so you may get that discount after all. The extra discount deal is good for orders through tomorrow only, however.




Thanks. Good deal. I ordered today. Hard not to at that price.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BillB9430]
      #5174137 - 04/15/12 06:16 PM

Quote:

For the handful of people on CN who do not have an Edmund 28mm RKE yet, Surplus Shed has them (unused) in their "New This Week" category now (April 15) for $35! If you put "Please apply my discount" in the Comments box, you'll get 15% off THAT for just $29.75! If you are a VIP member of Surplus Shed, there's another 10% off and free shipping, too (otherwise shipping is $5). Seems like a no-brainer if you don't have one of these eyepieces yet.




Thanks for the "heads up"!


I've had a single Edmund 28mm RKE for years. It's always been in my eyepiece case and is one of my favorite galaxy-hopping EPs.

Just bought another pair of these for future bino-viewing. I'll keep my fingers crossed that they are a matched set.


Cheers!
Blake


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Blake Andrews]
      #5174190 - 04/15/12 06:44 PM

What a fantastic deal!

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Paraclete]
      #5174358 - 04/15/12 08:41 PM

Yeah, great deal, thanks for the heads-up too BillB! I paid $42 for mine "used" (plus shipping) so yes, this tip sure is a fantastic deal! Come on people, join the RKE28 club now! (It's one of the hottest franchises there is in the forum just like the Pentaxes, Brandons, TVs or ahem.. Baader Hyp Zoom)

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5176214 - 04/16/12 11:21 PM

I bought 2...

Jaimo!


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Blake Andrews]
      #5176530 - 04/17/12 08:22 AM

Quote:


Just bought another pair of these for future bino-viewing. I'll keep my fingers crossed that they are a matched set.





Congrats on the in-coming RKE 28mm pair for the bino-v. In all likelihood they'd probably be a matched set, coming as they are from maybe the same batch. At one time I even took a leap of faith and blindly bought another UO 12.5mm hoping that it would work on my binoviewer together with the one I already had:



The two VT's shown above were obviously from different batches/versions (the one on the left has the infamous undercut) and yet they worked wonderfully when used as a pair!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5176546 - 04/17/12 08:33 AM

Nice Hernando!

Cheers,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5176732 - 04/17/12 10:52 AM

Thanks Mark!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Jaimo!]
      #5176743 - 04/17/12 10:59 AM

Quote:

I bought 2...




That's great Jaimo! If ever you have the time to compare your 1 1/8" Edmunds "Pre-RKE" (in the pic you posted earlier in the thread) and the new one's you just bought, I'd (maybe others too) be very interested to know your impressions on how they stack up against each other, thanks!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5176796 - 04/17/12 11:33 AM

Haha, very nice hint about surplus shed. I just ordered another pair. I'll pick the best two matches out of 4 and sell off the other two later, or loan em out. That was the same price I paid for one plus shipping at Edmunds.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5176818 - 04/17/12 11:44 AM

Hmmm, think I have different plan. My eyepiece tray holds three ep's. I have a 5x Powermate, and 2x Parks Gold Barlow. I need to buy a 3x Barlow, then keep the Barlow/28RKE combos in the tray and swap out with the single I keep in the diagonal. All 28RKE sessions at 4 different powers.

Love this eyepiece.

Think I'll get a 2x Powermate 1.25" to keep eye relief the same and try to get the 1.25" 3x TeleXtender from Meade.

I'm RKE crazy.



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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5176845 - 04/17/12 11:59 AM

Quote:


I'm RKE crazy.






Hahaha LOL
One can never have too many RKE28's!

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Simoes Pedro
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Jaimo!]
      #5177132 - 04/17/12 02:50 PM Attachment (8 downloads)

Quote:

Quote:

If you take the 1-1/8" apart, you will find it is not a Kellner but an asymetrical Plossl design, perhaps a Clave-style Plossl. So it is 4 elements in 2 groups.




Sorry, for the late response... I've been away.

1 1/8" Edmunds "Pre-RKE":


Jaimo!




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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Simoes Pedro]
      #5177582 - 04/17/12 08:08 PM

Why, are you trying to buy Jaimo's 1 1/8" Edmunds "Pre-RKE?" Hey, I was first in line!

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5177755 - 04/17/12 10:48 PM

I have to hold on to it for a while... I need to compare it to my new RKE when it arrives.

Jaimo!


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Re: RKE eyepieces - used them for years new [Re: Jaimo!]
      #5178031 - 04/18/12 07:10 AM

Hmph... Sorry I've been away from CN a while...

I had an original set of RKE's - full set - 8, 12, 15, 21 and 28mm when they first were made in the early 1980's and used them with a variety of scopes:

- 4" f/10 Meade SCT,
- 8" Celestron 8,
- 6" f/5 Newtonian,
- 12" f/3.7 Newtonian.

Originally Edmund designed and sold the RKE's for the little Astroscan telescope, a 4.25" f/4.2 Newtonian on a ball mount. There appeared to have been some attempt to optimise the RKE design to match the optical characteristics of this scope and it is quite noticeable that they perform very well for such a simple eyepiece when used in a Newtonian around f/4 to f/5.

Other budget eyepieces of that era were primarily orthos, Kellners, Erfles or Konigs and the RKE stood out against that crop for being admirably sharp in a Newtonian, with the apparent field of view being fairly typical for that era (we can leave Naglers out of this as they cost 10X as much at that time).

Characteristics:

The good:

- Excellent transparency and little colour thanks to the relatively short glass path and low number of glass-air surfaces compared to modern ultra wide designs, and they're coated.

The 28mm and 21mm had nice eye relief and fine for modest wide field views. The 15mm was ok but I didn't have much use for it. While the 8 and 12mm were OK for planetary, they were painful to use (impossibly short eye relief) and had a LOT of pincushion distortion.

The bad:

- Pincushion distortion - lots of it, and bad enough to distort jupiter or saturn quite badly when off-axis in the 8mm.

- Very limited field of view by modern standards.

- You must take care not to scratch the eye lens of the 28mm, it is convex and protrudes beyond the barrel - it is a shame Edmund didn't extend the barrel a few mm to protect it.

A few years ago I donated the RKE set to a worthy cause, and replaced it with a set Vixen LV's which are a whole lot better thanks to the consistent eye relief and better glass, with no regrets.

Edited by iluxo (04/18/12 07:12 AM)


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Re: RKE eyepieces - used them for years new [Re: iluxo]
      #5178164 - 04/18/12 09:28 AM

Quote:

Hmph... Sorry I've been away from CN a while...

I had an original set of RKE's - full set - 8, 12, 15, 21 and 28mm when they first were made in the early 1980's and used them with a variety of scopes:

- 4" f/10 Meade SCT,
- 8" Celestron 8,
- 6" f/5 Newtonian,
- 12" f/3.7 Newtonian.

Originally Edmund designed and sold the RKE's for the little Astroscan telescope, a 4.25" f/4.2 Newtonian on a ball mount. There appeared to have been some attempt to optimise the RKE design to match the optical characteristics of this scope and it is quite noticeable that they perform very well for such a simple eyepiece when used in a Newtonian around f/4 to f/5.

Other budget eyepieces of that era were primarily orthos, Kellners, Erfles or Konigs and the RKE stood out against that crop for being admirably sharp in a Newtonian, with the apparent field of view being fairly typical for that era (we can leave Naglers out of this as they cost 10X as much at that time).

Characteristics:

The good:

- Excellent transparency and little colour thanks to the relatively short glass path and low number of glass-air surfaces compared to modern ultra wide designs, and they're coated.

The 28mm and 21mm had nice eye relief and fine for modest wide field views. The 15mm was ok but I didn't have much use for it. While the 8 and 12mm were OK for planetary, they were painful to use (impossibly short eye relief) and had a LOT of pincushion distortion.

The bad:

- Pincushion distortion - lots of it, and bad enough to distort jupiter or saturn quite badly when off-axis in the 8mm.

- Very limited field of view by modern standards.

- You must take care not to scratch the eye lens of the 28mm, it is convex and protrudes beyond the barrel - it is a shame Edmund didn't extend the barrel a few mm to protect it.

A few years ago I donated the RKE set to a worthy cause, and replaced it with a set Vixen LV's which are a whole lot better thanks to the consistent eye relief and better glass, with no regrets.




Thanks for that elucidating report on the RKE's! For $35 new at SS as originally pointed out by BillB (thanks!), it's really a no-brainer to get an RKE28mm if only to try it out for size.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Jaimo!]
      #5178172 - 04/18/12 09:33 AM

Quote:

I have to hold on to it for a while... I need to compare it to my new RKE when it arrives.




Looking forward to the shoot-out Jaimo!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: iluxo]
      #5179125 - 04/18/12 07:05 PM

Good comments! If I may respond:

Quote:

Iluxo wrote:

(snip)Originally Edmund designed and sold the RKE's for the little Astroscan telescope, a 4.25" f/4.2 Newtonian on a ball mount. There appeared to have been some attempt to optimise the RKE design to match the optical characteristics of this scope and it is quite noticeable that they perform very well for such a simple eyepiece when used in a Newtonian around f/4 to f/5.




The Astroscan came out in late 1976, and I believe was originally was equipped with the 1-1/8" focal length RKE precursor. The RKE line proper was introduced a bit later, around 1978 or so, coinciding with Edmund's introduction of their new 8" f/5 and 6" f/6 fork-mounted reflectors. I agree that the line performs very well indeed with relatively fast 'scopes such as the Astroscan and these two reflectors, and I'm sure that was the intention.


Quote:

(snip)While the 8 and 12mm were OK for planetary, they were painful to use (impossibly short eye relief) and had a LOT of pincushion distortion.




Indeed, the eye relief is almost intolerable on the 8mm and only slightly better with the 12mm - certainly not an eyepiece for eyeglasses wearers! Much of this is due to the machined housing that rises much too far above the eyelens. Back in the 1980's I threw an 8mm I had on the lathe and turned down the housing considerably, to just a few millimeters above the eyelens... the eye relief was still a bit tight, but nowhere near as bad as it had been.


Quote:

(snip)You must take care not to scratch the eye lens of the 28mm, it is convex and protrudes beyond the barrel - it is a shame Edmund didn't extend the barrel a few mm to protect it.




Perhaps this was a very early example? I've never owned an RKE with this issue... my early 1980's, early 1990's and 2012 versions of the 28mm RKE all have their eyelens recessed below the level of the surrounding barrel.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5179177 - 04/18/12 07:32 PM

Quote:

Perhaps this was a very early example? I've never owned an RKE with this issue... my early 1980's, early 1990's and 2012 versions of the 28mm RKE all have their eyelens recessed below the level of the surrounding barrel.




My RKE doesn't quite protrude but it's very close:



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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5179538 - 04/19/12 12:02 AM

Quote:

Good comments! If I may respond:

Quote:

Iluxo wrote:

(snip)Originally Edmund designed and sold the RKE's for the little Astroscan telescope, a 4.25" f/4.2 Newtonian on a ball mount. There appeared to have been some attempt to optimise the RKE design to match the optical characteristics of this scope and it is quite noticeable that they perform very well for such a simple eyepiece when used in a Newtonian around f/4 to f/5.




The Astroscan came out in late 1976, and I believe was originally was equipped with the 1-1/8" focal length RKE precursor. The RKE line proper was introduced a bit later, around 1978 or so, coinciding with Edmund's introduction of their new 8" f/5 and 6" f/6 fork-mounted reflectors. I agree that the line performs very well indeed with relatively fast 'scopes such as the Astroscan and these two reflectors, and I'm sure that was the intention.


Quote:

(snip)While the 8 and 12mm were OK for planetary, they were painful to use (impossibly short eye relief) and had a LOT of pincushion distortion.




Indeed, the eye relief is almost intolerable on the 8mm and only slightly better with the 12mm - certainly not an eyepiece for eyeglasses wearers! Much of this is due to the machined housing that rises much too far above the eyelens. Back in the 1980's I threw an 8mm I had on the lathe and turned down the housing considerably, to just a few millimeters above the eyelens... the eye relief was still a bit tight, but nowhere near as bad as it had been.


Quote:

(snip)You must take care not to scratch the eye lens of the 28mm, it is convex and protrudes beyond the barrel - it is a shame Edmund didn't extend the barrel a few mm to protect it.




Perhaps this was a very early example? I've never owned an RKE with this issue... my early 1980's, early 1990's and 2012 versions of the 28mm RKE all have their eyelens recessed below the level of the surrounding barrel.




Thanks for the additional info on the RKE's! I've been eying a red Astroscan can if one comes around at a good price.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: mmclure]
      #5179603 - 04/19/12 01:06 AM

Quote:

My RKE doesn't quite protrude but it's very close




Same thing with my RKE28 "Edmund Scientific" where the surface of the eye lens is recessed just a teeny bit below the EP's top rim as shown below:



P.S. The news about the availability of the RKE28mm at Surplus Shed for only $35 had spread to 2 other threads in the forum; they will surely be cleaned off the shelf in no time now.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5179791 - 04/19/12 07:13 AM

Well... despite all the hype over you guys (re)discovering the RKE 28mm, I should add there is an EVEN BETTER eyepiece - if you have the scope to match it.

It is the Vixen LV50mm, its a 2" massive piece of glass weighing a pound, and you MUST have at least an 8" f/10 to f/15 scope to do justice with this beastie - it is NOT suited to shorter/smaller scopes as they cannot fill the field of view - this baby is basically TWICE THE SIZE of the RKE28mm.

To give you some idea, the eye lens on this beastie is bigger than most finders !

Like the RKE28mm, the LV50 provides a stupendous amount of eye relief, maybe 30mm, and you will get the 'stars floating in front of my nose' effect, and they are tack sharp edge to edge like diamonds on velvet.

Those with faster/smaller scopes need not apply.

Edited by iluxo (04/19/12 07:33 AM)


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: iluxo]
      #5180051 - 04/19/12 11:12 AM

Iluxo, thanks, but we will need pictures to visualize the beastie you're describing, please post one; yeah, I have a scope that can match it, the F/10 C8 that you mentioned.

Waiting for your pic; in the meantime, is it bigger than any of these monsters in my stable?


L-R: Axiom LX 23mm; ES 100° 14mm; Meade SWA 40mm 5K (+AA battery for scale)

Thanks!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: iluxo]
      #5180085 - 04/19/12 11:27 AM

Quote:

Well... despite all the hype over you guys (re)discovering the RKE 28mm, I should add there is an EVEN BETTER eyepiece - if you have the scope to match it.

It is the Vixen LV50mm, its a 2" massive piece of glass weighing a pound, and you MUST have at least an 8" f/10 to f/15 scope to do justice with this beastie - it is NOT suited to shorter/smaller scopes as they cannot fill the field of view - this baby is basically TWICE THE SIZE of the RKE28mm.

To give you some idea, the eye lens on this beastie is bigger than most finders !

Like the RKE28mm, the LV50 provides a stupendous amount of eye relief, maybe 30mm, and you will get the 'stars floating in front of my nose' effect, and they are tack sharp edge to edge like diamonds on velvet.

Those with faster/smaller scopes need not apply.




I'm quite skeptical of the floating effect offered by this eyepiece compared to the 28RKE. I have never heard that one mentioned in any of the threads about the effect.

Some others for sure. Brandon 48, some orthos, silver top Plossl's, but none has as pronounced effect.

FWIW - my two versions of RKE, both Edmund Scientific and Edmund Optics, do not have the eyelens protruding beyond the top edge of the barrel.

Edited by Vondragonnoggin (04/19/12 11:30 AM)


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5181268 - 04/20/12 06:19 AM

There's a picture and review of the LV50 at CloudyNights.

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=264


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Warren914]
      #5181511 - 04/20/12 10:22 AM

Thanks for the link!

In the 50mm realm, my favorite is the classic Meade 56mm smoothie:



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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5181614 - 04/20/12 11:42 AM Attachment (17 downloads)

Since we have strayed to 50mm. eyepieces here is one rarely seen.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: greju]
      #5181664 - 04/20/12 12:18 PM

Looks rare indeed! How does it perform? Thanks for posting!

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5181746 - 04/20/12 01:07 PM

Question about the red rubber ring on "newer" RKEs - is it embedded in a slot on the eyepiece body or is it just covering the knurled part of body? I.e. if you look at the picture of my RKE above (post #5179177) is that what you'd see if you took the red ring off a modern RKE?

I still think my RKE is pretty darn old due to the fact that it does not have any filter threads...


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: mmclure]
      #5182379 - 04/20/12 08:47 PM

Manuel, the red ring is indeed recessed into a smoothly-machined cutout in the barrel, on models from both Edmund Scientific and Edmund Optics.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5182588 - 04/21/12 12:22 AM

Yes it is embedded, but on my Edmund Scientific, I am unable pry open the red rubber grip to see what's under as the rubber is securely attached thereon as shown below:



Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5183749 - 04/21/12 07:15 PM

My Edmund 28mm collection goes back to pre-1968. I started in this hobby seriously about '67 or '68, at about nine or ten years old. I spent my allowance and odd-job earnings on astro-gear mail-ordered through S&T and at the Hansen Planetarium gift shop, which carried eyepieces, finders, and such. Yes, I was the prototypical nerd. No regrets.

Here is a pic of the lineup, and shows the evolution of the eyepiece. Sorry for focus problem:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii24/JethroTull1958/ATM/RKE002.jpg

All show a similar view. The oldest, far right, is made from 2 dis-similar achromats. The others are Kellner variations, i.e., one achromat and a simple lens. RKE = Rank, Kellner, Edmund. David Rank was the RKE designer.

If anyone else has one of these that predates about 1968, please post a pic and your impressions.

Honestly, I love the oldest one the best. The black one has a cross-line reticle installed, since I use it as a finder eyepiece on my 6" f/8 Newt (the one from S&T March '99).

I just got a pair of them from SS for my bino-viewer. Many thanks to Fred for offering these at a great price!


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Chuck Hards]
      #5184048 - 04/22/12 12:00 AM

Wow Chuck, thanks, that oldest RKE (silver) is a beauty, I like it too, I want one!

P.S. I noticed your link has reference to "Jethro Tull" of the Aqualung fame, great band!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5184111 - 04/22/12 01:05 AM

Ok...

Image deleted - Reason: Duplicate.

Edited by Boot (04/22/12 06:11 PM)


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5184112 - 04/22/12 01:05 AM Attachment (10 downloads)

Note the size of the LV50 - its bigger than the Masayuma 45 and far heavier - it is a LOT of glass.

Edited by iluxo (04/22/12 01:08 AM)


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: iluxo]
      #5184150 - 04/22/12 01:38 AM

Quote:

Manuel, the red ring is indeed recessed into a smoothly-machined cutout in the barrel, on models from both Edmund Scientific and Edmund Optics.




Quote:

Yes it is embedded, but on my Edmund Scientific, I am unable pry open the red rubber grip to see what's under as the rubber is securely attached thereon as shown below:




Thanks for that info. It sure seems like mine is a pretty old one then - it's in the same style body as the "1 1/8". I wonder if the Astroscan it was included with is as old...


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: iluxo]
      #5184357 - 04/22/12 09:00 AM

Quote:

Note the size of the LV50 - its bigger than the Masayuma 45 and far heavier - it is a LOT of glass.




Yeah, its a big one alright, and what an impressive set of EP's! Nice set sir, I particularly like the LVW's, known for their stellar performance!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5185262 - 04/22/12 07:03 PM

Quote:

Wow Chuck, thanks, that oldest RKE (silver) is a beauty, I like it too, I want one!

P.S. I noticed your link has reference to "Jethro Tull" of the Aqualung fame, great band!

Best,




Hey ibase:

The old silver eyepiece used to be black anodized, but after nearly 45 years of constant use, the anodizing has worn-off, leaving only machining marks and a trace of anodizing in the "low" spots. Still works great.

There is no engraving at all on that eyepiece. Never has been. I think that back then, Norm Edmund had barrels machined for whatever lenses he had a large stock of. 28mm (or thereabouts) is a great focal length for scopes of 48" and longer focal length (6" f/8 Newts, by far the most popular scope in the '60's) so I think that just might have been a factor in Edmund's decision to go forward with a mass-produced 28mm eyepiece using OEM optics instead of strictly US government surplus. But who knows for sure?

I've been a fan of Jethro Tull since about 1969, and have been to many, many concerts. Still have an original "Thick As A Brick" T-shirt, and have my tickets for the Thick as a Brick Volume 2 concert, due to be in my neck of the woods this fall. Ian Anderson has written a sequel to the original TAAB and I can't wait.

Rock on!



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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: mmclure]
      #5185383 - 04/22/12 08:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Manuel, the red ring is indeed recessed into a smoothly-machined cutout in the barrel, on models from both Edmund Scientific and Edmund Optics.




Quote:

Yes it is embedded, but on my Edmund Scientific, I am unable pry open the red rubber grip to see what's under as the rubber is securely attached thereon as shown below:




Thanks for that info. It sure seems like mine is a pretty old one then - it's in the same style body as the "1 1/8". I wonder if the Astroscan it was included with is as old...




Manuel, I think you're on to something, I borrowed your RKE image (hope you don't mind) to show it side-by-side in my response to Chuck at the next post below, thanks.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Chuck Hards]
      #5185448 - 04/22/12 09:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Wow Chuck, thanks, that oldest RKE (silver) is a beauty, I like it too, I want one!

P.S. I noticed your link has reference to "Jethro Tull" of the Aqualung fame, great band!

Best,




Hey ibase:

The old silver eyepiece used to be black anodized, but after nearly 45 years of constant use, the anodizing has worn-off, leaving only machining marks and a trace of anodizing in the "low" spots. Still works great.

There is no engraving at all on that eyepiece. Never has been. I think that back then, Norm Edmund had barrels machined for whatever lenses he had a large stock of. 28mm (or thereabouts) is a great focal length for scopes of 48" and longer focal length (6" f/8 Newts, by far the most popular scope in the '60's) so I think that just might have been a factor in Edmund's decision to go forward with a mass-produced 28mm eyepiece using OEM optics instead of strictly US government surplus. But who knows for sure?

I've been a fan of Jethro Tull since about 1969, and have been to many, many concerts. Still have an original "Thick As A Brick" T-shirt, and have my tickets for the Thick as a Brick Volume 2 concert, due to be in my neck of the woods this fall. Ian Anderson has written a sequel to the original TAAB and I can't wait.

Rock on!






Nearly 45 years of constant use of the RKE28 - that's amazing! I've been into this for only 4 years (started in 2008), and that means I have to wait around 4 more decades for my RKE to become the silver beauty like yours!

Below is a pic of your silver RKE (I hope you don't mind my borrowing it and doing some processing/re-scaling) vis-a-vis that of Mmclure's all-black RKE28 posted earlier:



They look very similar in shape, form & grip ring style, and since there were no engravings ever on the silver one as you said, then it must pre-date that of Mmclure's, and probably also that of Jaimo!'s (1-1/8"). That puts your silver RKE as the oldest one here to-date! (I wonder if there is anybody who has an even older RKE28 than this silver.) Very interesting background story too about the early days and origins of the RKE28, thanks!

P.S. How I wish I can attend the concert of Jethro Tull, but I'm at the opposite side half-way around the globe! Enjoy!

Best,


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Chuck Hards
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5185998 - 04/23/12 08:58 AM

I'll get a hig-res shot of my older Edmund 28mm eyepieces in a day or two, instead of that cell phone shot. It will make the comparison easier. I'll pull the silver one apart for an internal exam, as well.

The knurling is slightly more proud than on my black one, which, btw, doesn't have RKE engraved on it.


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Chuck Hards]
      #5187208 - 04/23/12 10:29 PM

Looking forward to seeing the new pics! A black RKE28 without the "RKE " engraving? Sounds intriguing, like an early prototype of some sort, just the kind of thing that RKE28 enthusiasts would chomp on with gusto!

Best,


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BillB9430
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5188939 - 04/24/12 10:34 PM

Well folks, looks like the big Surplus Shed Edmund 28 RKE sale is over. The eyepiece is no longer listed or pictured in the "Eyepiece" section of Surplus Shed's website. From the number of posts here and also in oldtimer's "Alert" thread, I suspect we have lots of new 28 RKE owners, though. - Bill

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rdandrea
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: BillB9430]
      #5188959 - 04/24/12 10:42 PM

Got mine yesterday. Received in good shape. No marks on the barrels, no scratches or sleeks on the lenses.

Thanks for a great sale, Surplus Shed.


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: BillB9430]
      #5189153 - 04/25/12 01:21 AM

Quote:

Well folks, looks like the big Surplus Shed Edmund 28 RKE sale is over. The eyepiece is no longer listed or pictured in the "Eyepiece" section of Surplus Shed's website. From the number of posts here and also in oldtimer's "Alert" thread, I suspect we have lots of new 28 RKE owners, though. - Bill




The legion of RKE 28mm owners had grown considerably I suppose, much thanks to you sir!

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: rdandrea]
      #5189166 - 04/25/12 01:34 AM

Quote:

Got mine yesterday. Received in good shape. No marks on the barrels, no scratches or sleeks on the lenses.

Thanks for a great sale, Surplus Shed.




That's great! What version did you receive - "Edmund Optics" or the older "Edmund Scientific?" Asking because on another thread, it was reported that someone received a pair of the older version. Thanks.

Best,


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nevy
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5189565 - 04/25/12 10:34 AM

Got an email today to say mine has been shipped, don't know when it will get here in the UK , probly next week sometime I expect.

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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: nevy]
      #5189582 - 04/25/12 10:42 AM

Good to know SS ships across the big pond.

Best,


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rdandrea
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5189814 - 04/25/12 12:53 PM

Quote:

That's great! What version did you receive - "Edmund Optics" or the older "Edmund Scientific?"




The older version, "Edmund Scientific." That's OK with me, it's a mate to my old Edmund Scientific 15mm RKE.

The name change is probably why they're surplus, no?


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: rdandrea]
      #5189935 - 04/25/12 02:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

That's great! What version did you receive - "Edmund Optics" or the older "Edmund Scientific?"




The older version, "Edmund Scientific." That's OK with me, it's a mate to my old Edmund Scientific 15mm RKE.

The name change is probably why they're surplus, no?




Mine's the old "Edmund Scientific" too. According to Vondragonnoggin who has both versions, they're optically identical, having taken both of them apart and having compared their performance too.

You're probably right, it's "surplus" because they're the old stock replaced by the latter version marked "Edmund Optics." I just wonder how Surplus Shed was able to find and get hold of the treasure trove of RKE 28 Scientifics - it sure made a lot of forum members happy!

Best,


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greju
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5189963 - 04/25/12 02:23 PM

"Mine's the old "Edmund Scientific" too. According to Vondragonnoggin who has both versions, they're optically identical, having taken both of them apart and having compared their performance too."

Is that what he said? I will say it one more time. The originals and the current ones are not the same.


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: greju]
      #5189977 - 04/25/12 02:28 PM

Quote:

I will say it one more time. The originals and the current ones are not the same.




Thanks; so how different is the older "Edmund Scientific" from the new "Edmund Optics" version? Lenses? Performance? Very interested to know the difference from your end.

Best,


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greju
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5190055 - 04/25/12 03:06 PM Attachment (15 downloads)

Quote:

Quote:

I will say it one more time. The originals and the current ones are not the same.




Thanks; so how different is the older "Edmund Scientific" from the new "Edmund Optics" version? Lenses? Performance? Very interested to know the difference from your end.

Best,




I have done my research both in the field and behind the monitor. I will help you out with this one premise though that seems to have been documented not only in this forum (you may have to go back to the archives which seem unknown to some of the newer members here ) as well as others. The newer RKE's and the originals are not made in the same place or by the same people. How could they be the same? IMHO many have jumped on the RKE "bandwagon" but unless they have one of the originals they are only fooling themselves. I do not think we have yet seen a direct comparison pictorilly or otherwise, between an original RKE 28mm.(one that actually says RKE on it to keep it apples to apples) and one of the ones recently sold by Edmund's or the Shed. I really would like to be proven wrong on this so as to make a lot of people feel completely confident about their recent purchases.


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: greju]
      #5190069 - 04/25/12 03:16 PM

Thanks, and nice pic! Well, they may not have been made at the same place or by the same people, but they can have identical design or specs, much like outsourced EP's made in China for cost considerations, but following the same design when they used to be made in the US, or something along those lines. It would be interesting if someone who does have the 2 versions ("Edmund Scientific" & "Edmund Optics") is able to show the innards of these fine oculars side-by-side, which had taken the forum by storm owing to the "floating" view and the relatively dirt-cheap price especially on the surplus specials. Thanks again!

Best,


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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: greju]
      #5190075 - 04/25/12 03:18 PM

Quote:

"Mine's the old "Edmund Scientific" too. According to Vondragonnoggin who has both versions, they're optically identical, having taken both of them apart and having compared their performance too."

Is that what he said? I will say it one more time. The originals and the current ones are not the same.




The orange band Edmund Scientific and the Orange band Edmund Optics are identical when taken apart. The only different version is the Edmund 1 1/8 version. Look it up yourself.




You can interchange elements between versions. I suppose you have taken part both and inspected?

Edited by Vondragonnoggin (04/25/12 03:21 PM)


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nevy
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5190123 - 04/25/12 03:42 PM

Weather they're the same or different do you still get the floaty fealling with the shed ones?

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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: nevy]
      #5190128 - 04/25/12 03:47 PM

I just received mine today from the shed. Haven't tried them out yet. I'm sure they do though. It is in the design and the design has not changed from the older orange band to newer.

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BillP
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5190149 - 04/25/12 04:00 PM

Quote:

I just received mine today from the shed. Haven't tried them out yet. I'm sure they do though. It is in the design and the design has not changed from the older orange band to newer.




FYI, the optical design of the 1-1/8" marked Edmunds is 4 elements in 2 groups with each group being different. So not a symmetrical design Plossl-like eyepiece but more along the original Plossl design. The Edmunds 28mm RKE marked eyepiece is a reverse Kellner design which is 3 elements in 2 groups. So a completely different design from the 1-1/8".

Regardless, both behave exactly the same and have the floating experience to them as they have same form factor and same eye relief. The 1-1/8" though used the barrel for its field stop so its AFOV is about 10 degrees larger than the 28 RKE and its field stop is not very sharp or distinct. So it has those differences.

All the one marked 28 RKE, regardless of band color and such, are of the same optical design as you stated...at least all the ones I took apart. All the 3 element in 2 groups design.

Edited by BillP (04/25/12 04:01 PM)


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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: BillP]
      #5190190 - 04/25/12 04:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I just received mine today from the shed. Haven't tried them out yet. I'm sure they do though. It is in the design and the design has not changed from the older orange band to newer.




FYI, the optical design of the 1-1/8" marked Edmunds is 4 elements in 2 groups with each group being different. So not a symmetrical design Plossl-like eyepiece but more along the original Plossl design. The Edmunds 28mm RKE marked eyepiece is a reverse Kellner design which is 3 elements in 2 groups. So a completely different design from the 1-1/8".

Regardless, both behave exactly the same and have the floating experience to them as they have same form factor and same eye relief. The 1-1/8" though used the barrel for its field stop so its AFOV is about 10 degrees larger than the 28 RKE and its field stop is not very sharp or distinct. So it has those differences.

All the one marked 28 RKE, regardless of band color and such, are of the same optical design as you stated...at least all the ones I took apart. All the 3 element in 2 groups design.




Thanks for clarifying that Bill. It was easy to see the difference in Jaimo's exploded view compared to mine.



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mgwhittle
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5190200 - 04/25/12 04:30 PM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item1c260a5789&item=120897296265&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=thEDgHp0sten0vjSiBKAohQf5WM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_1503wt_1139

This 28mm RKE just sold for $152.00 on Ebay. Can someone tell me why it went for so much?


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BillP
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #5190258 - 04/25/12 04:59 PM

because some people are crazy

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amicus sidera
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: BillP]
      #5190401 - 04/25/12 06:25 PM

I think the vintage box and label may have had something to do with the price paid.

Incidentally, the graphic on that label is worth a closer look ... an old Wincharger wind generator on the bottom, a reflector on GE mount above that, solar panels above the reflector, and what appear to be mirrors or lenses scattered about to the right of the panels.


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greju
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5190716 - 04/25/12 09:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

"Mine's the old "Edmund Scientific" too. According to Vondragonnoggin who has both versions, they're optically identical, having taken both of them apart and having compared their performance too."

Is that what he said? I will say it one more time. The originals and the current ones are not the same.




The orange band Edmund Scientific and the Orange band Edmund Optics are identical when taken apart. The only different version is the Edmund 1 1/8 version. Look it up yourself.




You can interchange elements between versions. I suppose you have taken part both and inspected?





If you could supply a link to confirm both of your statements that would certainly help as to clarifying this one way or the other. As I said in my last post I do not recall any picture views between an old and new RKE 28mm. Not that that alone would confirm that they are "identical" but it would help the discussion for sure.

No I have not taken apart a newer version hence my request. I have though looked thru them both and definately noticed a difference. Someone, wasn't that you(?), said something to the effect that their eyes could not see a difference but then went on to say their eyes were not to discerning or something like that. I do not recall any other direct comparisons.

As to it is in the design, I can agree to that to a point if in fact the designs are the same. Glass has nothing to do with it? Oops! I gave away another point of contention!


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BillB9430
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: BillP]
      #5190720 - 04/25/12 09:31 PM

BillP - FYI, there is yet another similar looking "Edmund" 28 mm eyepiece. "Edmund Scientifics" currently markets an eyepiece labeled "Edmund Scientific Plossl 28mm" for $49.95. It is made in China, but unlike the RKE has a threaded retaining ring inside, above the lower barrel. It has a red rubber grip ring like the RKE and features two identical 29.9 mm diameter achromats in the "symmetrical design Plossl-like eyepiece" format. Although the effect is somewhat subjective, I find the "floating experience" somewhat less in this eyepiece, despite its dimensions and eye relief being similar to the RKE and earlier 2-2 Edmund 1 1/8" FL. This Plossl does have a larger diameter eye lens than the RKE and is 6.5 mm longer. - Bill

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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: greju]
      #5190751 - 04/25/12 10:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

"Mine's the old "Edmund Scientific" too. According to Vondragonnoggin who has both versions, they're optically identical, having taken both of them apart and having compared their performance too."

Is that what he said? I will say it one more time. The originals and the current ones are not the same.




The orange band Edmund Scientific and the Orange band Edmund Optics are identical when taken apart. The only different version is the Edmund 1 1/8 version. Look it up yourself.




You can interchange elements between versions. I suppose you have taken part both and inspected?





If you could supply a link to confirm both of your statements that would certainly help as to clarifying this one way or the other. As I said in my last post I do not recall any picture views between an old and new RKE 28mm. Not that that alone would confirm that they are "identical" but it would help the discussion for sure.

No I have not taken apart a newer version hence my request. I have though looked thru them both and definately noticed a difference. Someone, wasn't that you(?), said something to the effect that their eyes could not see a difference but then went on to say their eyes were not to discerning or something like that. I do not recall any other direct comparisons.

As to it is in the design, I can agree to that to a point if in fact the designs are the same. Glass has nothing to do with it? Oops! I gave away another point of contention!




No, I dont believe that was me that said my eyes weren't too discerning (I could be wrong, but tend to think I have a keen eye on a few things) but you can feel free to use search engines and forum searches and the like to find your own answers as I don't like to put in much effort doing the work for people that just make silly doubting comments when the pictures are in threads you can find by using search features.

Fact is I have both newer and older orange band and binoview them and don't notice a difference. If you want to get your own newer one to binoview and argue whether or not they are the same design or not, then go ahead.

If Bill P's statements about taking several apart and my own statements of taking both apart are not convincing you, then a few pictures I'll probably get accused of doctoring are not coming your way.

Do the footwork and you'll find your own satisfactory answer. I did my own footwork taking mine apart already.

Clear skies



Fact is I can't take any new pictures of the newer and older versions right now even if I felt inclined too. My pair of older and newer are currently on loan and in Canada with Mr. Glenn LeDrew. Won't have em back anytime real soon, so I just have the surplus shed pair of Edmund Scientific's right now.

Have to find someone else I'm afraid....

Edited by Vondragonnoggin (04/25/12 11:04 PM)


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greju
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5190950 - 04/26/12 12:39 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

"Mine's the old "Edmund Scientific" too. According to Vondragonnoggin who has both versions, they're optically identical, having taken both of them apart and having compared their performance too."

Is that what he said? I will say it one more time. The originals and the current ones are not the same.




The orange band Edmund Scientific and the Orange band Edmund Optics are identical when taken apart. The only different version is the Edmund 1 1/8 version. Look it up yourself.




You can interchange elements between versions. I suppose you have taken part both and inspected?





If you could supply a link to confirm both of your statements that would certainly help as to clarifying this one way or the other. As I said in my last post I do not recall any picture views between an old and new RKE 28mm. Not that that alone would confirm that they are "identical" but it would help the discussion for sure.

No I have not taken apart a newer version hence my request. I have though looked thru them both and definately noticed a difference. Someone, wasn't that you(?), said something to the effect that their eyes could not see a difference but then went on to say their eyes were not to discerning or something like that. I do not recall any other direct comparisons.

As to it is in the design, I can agree to that to a point if in fact the designs are the same. Glass has nothing to do with it? Oops! I gave away another point of contention!




No, I dont believe that was me that said my eyes weren't too discerning (I could be wrong, but tend to think I have a keen eye on a few things) but you can feel free to use search engines and forum searches and the like to find your own answers as I don't like to put in much effort doing the work for people that just make silly doubting comments when the pictures are in threads you can find by using search features.

Fact is I have both newer and older orange band and binoview them and don't notice a difference. If you want to get your own newer one to binoview and argue whether or not they are the same design or not, then go ahead.

If Bill P's statements about taking several apart and my own statements of taking both apart are not convincing you, then a few pictures I'll probably get accused of doctoring are not coming your way.

Do the footwork and you'll find your own satisfactory answer. I did my own footwork taking mine apart already.

Clear skies



Fact is I can't take any new pictures of the newer and older versions right now even if I felt inclined too. My pair of older and newer are currently on loan and in Canada with Mr. Glenn LeDrew. Won't have em back anytime real soon, so I just have the surplus shed pair of Edmund Scientific's right now.

Have to find someone else I'm afraid....




Hmmm. "Silly doubting comments"? "Do the footwork" Ha!Having read thousands upon thousands of threads all the way thru the archives in CN alone believe me I have done my footwork. I also do not have a problem providing links when I am asked for backup to my claims. I will even admit to not being correct all the time and when wrong I man up. Have done that many times in this forum. So much info I have once or twice mixed info from different posts. I include your post I referred to and apologise as it was not you who said anything about discerning eyes."The Edmund Scientific and Edmund Optics eyepieces remain unchanged. Maybe the Edmund 1 1/8 is different slightly, but my eyes can't tell the difference between old and new 28mm stamped eyepieces."
I have looked and not found a post photographicly compareing the old and new RKE's. As I said before I have looked thru both old and new versions simultaniously and the difference was easy to see. I am not alone as the included links seem to confirm. I do not need to bino them to tell me that. Just wondering, why would anybody accuse you of doctoring photo's? You seem to imply that the pictures are not coming my way and that the pictures are already here? It would seem to me to be one or the other. If what you said in this post is your way of proving me wrong, which I practically begged someone to do, it seems to be lacking something. Like links for starters. I will again supply some links. Maybe you missed them the first time around. I have no problem with the footwork. I am not and have never said anything about the quality of the new versus old other than they are not the same. Might want to keep that in mind instead of getting in a huff.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Edmund Scientific and Edmund Optics eyepieces remain unchanged. Maybe the Edmund 1 1/8 is different slightly, but my eyes can't tell the difference between old and new 28mm stamped eyepieces.

On another note - never seen an "Edmond" eyepiece before now."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There are all sorts of old threads concerning RKE's. As far as the validity of the info, as always, YMMV.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarchive/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2068942/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1

and,

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarchive/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Eyepieces&Number=1570263&Forum=,,,,

one more,

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarchive/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1221678/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1

ok, last one. Read what the "Master" has to say.

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbarchive/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1028097/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 *DELETED* new [Re: greju]
      #5190980 - 04/26/12 01:08 AM

Post deleted by Vondragonnoggin

Edited by Vondragonnoggin (04/26/12 01:29 AM)


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5191002 - 04/26/12 01:31 AM

Top post page 12 of "A really F-U-N eyepiece, my new 28mm RKE"


Should be enough evidence for anyone, but I'm outta this thread before it gets locked. I have provided my pic.

Anyone can download all three pics (two in this thread are the older banded orange RKE, the 1 1/8 RKE) and my pic of the newer in the thread I mentioned and compare them.

It was fairly easy to find all three types in exploded pics and compare. No need for searching and searching.



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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: BillP]
      #5191104 - 04/26/12 06:28 AM

Quote:

because some people are crazy






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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: mgwhittle]
      #5191117 - 04/26/12 06:48 AM

Quote:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&hash=item1c260a5789&item=120897296265&nma=true&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&rt=nc&si=thEDgHp0sten0vjSiBKAohQf5WM%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_1503wt_1139

This 28mm RKE just sold for $152.00 on Ebay. Can someone tell me why it went for so much?




Quote:

I think the vintage box and label may have had something to do with the price paid.

Incidentally, the graphic on that label is worth a closer look ... an old Wincharger wind generator on the bottom, a reflector on GE mount above that, solar panels above the reflector, and what appear to be mirrors or lenses scattered about to the right of the panels.




Agree. That's the first thing that caught my attention on the ebay link, the box! It may not matter to some but others consider the eyepiece box indispensable, so much so that the used price of an EP can become higher or lower depending on whether the box is included or not in the offer. I wish my Edmund Scientific RKE 28mm (just like the one that sold on ebay) had a pretty vintage box too to house it, but what came with it was a plane white box, not even sure if it was original, shown below:



Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: greju]
      #5191191 - 04/26/12 08:11 AM

Quote:

As I said before I have looked thru both old and new versions simultaniously and the difference was easy to see. .. .. I am not and have never said anything about the quality of the new versus old other than they are not the same.




Thanks for the links, but you're killing us here - if you've made direct comparisons between the old "Edmund Scientific" and the current "Edmund Optics" versions, why can't or why won't you tell us in what way they're not the same or which one is better to your eyes, other than that they're different? Everyone's observations in the forum are valid, there's no right or wrong nor can anybody validly contest it because that's what our eyes tell us and we're just sharing it here, so I don't really know why you won't tell us what difference you see between the 2 RKE28mm versions. Still hoping you can tell us all though, thanks.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5191334 - 04/26/12 09:46 AM

Quote:

Top post page 12 of "A really F-U-N eyepiece, my new 28mm RKE"


Should be enough evidence for anyone, but I'm outta this thread before it gets locked. I have provided my pic.

Anyone can download all three pics (two in this thread are the older banded orange RKE, the 1 1/8 RKE) and my pic of the newer in the thread I mentioned and compare them.

It was fairly easy to find all three types in exploded pics and compare. No need for searching and searching.






For the benefit of anyone who's interested, here they are - stitched together for easy comparison a composite image of the three versions that you mentioned, two of them posted earlier here (1-1/8" by Jaimo! & Edmund Scientific by Warren914, hope you're alright with having them put together here guys), and your own Edmund Optics version:


RKE 28mm's From top to bottom: Jaimo!'s 1-1/8", Vondragonnoggin's Edmund Optics & Warren914's Edmund Scientific

Will let the viewers decide if the latter 2 are the same.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5191353 - 04/26/12 09:57 AM

Thanks Hernando! Sorry if I was hijacking your thread earlier. I did not want to get your thread locked, so I'm staying on the sidelines. I know what my own eyes tell me, and I'll stick to that. The pic is great. Very clearly demonstrates design between the three. As far as optical quality of the glass, it appears to have the same light coatings on the two banded versions to me, but I guess others can judge for themselves. I just know that when I take one out to use for a session, I don't bother to look if it is the older or newer.

I now have four of them to compare when my first pair come back from Canada.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5191375 - 04/26/12 10:10 AM

I also mapped the lens design on the older 1-1/8" - link.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: BillP]
      #5191480 - 04/26/12 11:16 AM

I see somebody sent a super-wide post and ruined this thread for those without super-wide monitors.



Mike


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5191580 - 04/26/12 12:14 PM

Great diagram ibase.
Are both lenses fully coated or not?
They should be blue with single coat.
There is a report that the 28mm is not, but the other RKE's are.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: saemark30]
      #5191638 - 04/26/12 12:49 PM

Hey folks, Fred must have found more, or got a new shipment! The Edmund RKE 28 mm eyepieces are relisted as available on the Surplus Shed website. They are under category "Eyepieces/sets" on the pull-down menu and on the last page of that category. Another chance for anyone who missed out or still wants another one. Still $35! -Bill

Edited by BillB9430 (04/26/12 02:24 PM)


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: BillB9430]
      #5192158 - 04/26/12 05:53 PM

Looks like to top lens is uncoated, neutral reflections not purple or bluish.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: saemark30]
      #5192411 - 04/26/12 08:00 PM

Quote:

Looks like to top lens is uncoated, neutral reflections not purple or bluish.




Thanks; yeah it looks uncoated initially, but both purplish/bluish tinge are present on my Edmund Scientific although it's very slight. Tried to capture it on camera:


Edmund Scientific RKE28mm with hints of purple & blue hues

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5192474 - 04/26/12 08:43 PM

Quote:

Thanks Hernando! Sorry if I was hijacking your thread earlier. I did not want to get your thread locked, so I'm staying on the sidelines. I know what my own eyes tell me, and I'll stick to that. The pic is great. Very clearly demonstrates design between the three. As far as optical quality of the glass, it appears to have the same light coatings on the two banded versions to me, but I guess others can judge for themselves. I just know that when I take one out to use for a session, I don't bother to look if it is the older or newer.

I now have four of them to compare when my first pair come back from Canada.




Thanks and no worries, no problem at all, anyone's welcome to hijack the thread ; besides, the spirited discussion was very much in-line with the topic, and very interesting too. Four RKE28mm's, isn't that saying something about this fine ocular? You bet!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: BillP]
      #5192501 - 04/26/12 09:02 PM

Quote:

I also mapped the lens design on the older 1-1/8" - link.




Very nice RKE 28 1-1/8" map! If you don't mind, am posting the diagram here for easy reference:


BillP's RKE 28 1-1/8" lens trace/map

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5192562 - 04/26/12 10:18 PM

Quote:

I see somebody sent a super-wide post and ruined this thread for those without super-wide monitors.






Oh, so that's why this thread's format looked kinda off (have to scroll sideways beyond the screen to read lines) in my smartphone's browser! But it's just alright really.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: BillB9430]
      #5192577 - 04/26/12 10:26 PM

Quote:

Hey folks, Fred must have found more, or got a new shipment! The Edmund RKE 28 mm eyepieces are relisted as available on the Surplus Shed website. They are under category "Eyepieces/sets" on the pull-down menu and on the last page of that category. Another chance for anyone who missed out or still wants another one. Still $35! -Bill




That's great news Bill, thanks! (Last call! Or is it? )

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: BillB9430]
      #5192585 - 04/26/12 10:29 PM

Quote:

Hey folks, Fred must have found more, or got a new shipment! The Edmund RKE 28 mm eyepieces are relisted as available on the Surplus Shed website. They are under category "Eyepieces/sets" on the pull-down menu and on the last page of that category. Another chance for anyone who missed out or still wants another one. Still $35! -Bill




Yeah, I finally caved and bought a pair. Thanks for the heads up!


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Doug Culbertson]
      #5192659 - 04/26/12 11:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hey folks, Fred must have found more, or got a new shipment! The Edmund RKE 28 mm eyepieces are relisted as available on the Surplus Shed website. They are under category "Eyepieces/sets" on the pull-down menu and on the last page of that category. Another chance for anyone who missed out or still wants another one. Still $35! -Bill




Yeah, I finally caved and bought a pair. Thanks for the heads up!




Congrats and welcome to the club!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5192751 - 04/27/12 12:43 AM

Hello ,


I have a 28mm RKE and like it very much in my slower scopes .
I would like to barlow it on my 7inch F10 reflector but need some relevant information before the purchase of the barlow lens .
Some posters in this thread have said positive things about barlowing the RKE 28mm , could you give an estimate of its performance when barlowed compaired to an eyepiece of equal FL ., is the image just as bright , less bright ?? Any unusual problems with barlowing it ???

Last is for me the critical point of my asking , my 7 inch scope only has about 1 inch of focuser travel , so with the barlow if I need to rack in the focuser more that 3/4 of an inch from where the 28mm by its self comes to focus it will not work for my 7 inch scope .

I don't use barlows so have no experience with them and don't know what to expect .

I thank you for any and all of your insight .

Leonard


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: leonard]
      #5192873 - 04/27/12 03:21 AM

Quote:

Hello ,


I have a 28mm RKE and like it very much in my slower scopies .
I would like to barlow it on my 7inch F10 reflector but need some relevant information before the purchase of the barlow lens .
Some posters in this thread have said positive things about barlowing the RKE 28mm , could you give an estimate of its performance when barlowed compaired to an eyepiece of equal FL ., is the image just as bright , less bright ?? Any unusual problems with barlowing it ???

Last is for me the critical point of my asking , my 7 inch scope only has about 1 inch of focuser travel , so with the barlow if I need to rack in the focuser more that 3/4 of an inch from where the 28mm by its self comes to focus it will not work for my 7 inch scope .

I don't use barlows so have no experience with them and don't know what to expect .

I thank you for any and all of your insight .




Hi Leonard,

Just like what had been reported by others, the RKE28mm does barlow well. I will try to do a comparison tonight with the barlowed RKE28mm vs shorter focal lengths EP's, weather-permitting. What barlow do you intend to use, what power? I myself am not a barlow guy, although I have some of them - Powermate 2.5x, TV 2x, TV 3x, Antares 2" 1.6x, some other garden-variety barlows, and my favorite, the screw-on Baader 2.25x HZ barlow. Will also take note of the racking requirements.

Incidentally, Vondragonnoggin is the barlowed-RKE28 authority here, I'm sure he will be chiming in on us in a short while..

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5192876 - 04/27/12 03:27 AM

In the past, while barlowing the RKE 28, I found that it seemed to increase the eye relief beyond it's already high value of 24.5mm and made eye placement very tricky. To be honest, I don't even know if this is even possible (ER increasing by barlowing), but it at least *seemed* that way to me.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Starman81]
      #5192903 - 04/27/12 05:53 AM

Starman,

You are correct, a barlow increases eye relief. A powermate will keep the ER the same.

Hermie


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Simoes Pedro]
      #5192940 - 04/27/12 06:50 AM

Quote:

Hi Hernando,

I can guarantee yours is not in the most recent housing. Yours reads Edmund Scientific. That brand ceased to exist in the 70's.





Sorry, that would be incorrect.

The photo of his eyepiece shows EDMUND SCIENTIFIC CO. followed by a series of dots, then RKE28 followed by two dots.

I bought a complete set of these in 2000-2001, from Edmund Scientific, and that is the exact same as it appears on mine.

FWIW, I sold all of them but the 21.5mm since that one appeared to give the best image quality, and I really couldn't stand the 28.7mm with it's frequent kidney-beaning.

So it seems there may be three versions of the orange banded RKE eyepiece.

EDMUND OPTICS
EDMUND SCIENTIFIC
EDMUND SCEINTIFIC CO.


edz


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: leonard]
      #5192941 - 04/27/12 06:52 AM

Quote:

Hello ,


I have a 28mm RKE and like it very much in my slower scopes .
I would like to barlow it on my 7inch F10 reflector but need some relevant information before the purchase of the barlow lens .
Some posters in this thread have said positive things about barlowing the RKE 28mm , could you give an estimate of its performance when barlowed compaired to an eyepiece of equal FL ., is the image just as bright , less bright ?? Any unusual problems with barlowing it ???

Last is for me the critical point of my asking , my 7 inch scope only has about 1 inch of focuser travel , so with the barlow if I need to rack in the focuser more that 3/4 of an inch from where the 28mm by its self comes to focus it will not work for my 7 inch scope .

I don't use barlows so have no experience with them and don't know what to expect .

I thank you for any and all of your insight .

Leonard




Leonard, the next clear night I get to try out my new surplus shed RKE's, I'll check focuser travel in a Telecentric power amplifier (Powermate, Meade TeleXtender). Hermie is correct that the Telecentric designs don't increase eye relief. A regular Barlow will increase it, although personally I don't mind the extra ER, but to some, it is hard to get used to keeping your eye that far away on the sweet spot.

Nothing but clouds lately. I'll check it on my 6" F/12 mak, which is about the closest I have to your scope.

A good 2x or 2.5x Powermate is a great investment if you can use them. That is some short focuser travel you have though. Kind of an expensive gamble, although if you bought a less expensive used one, you could experiment and sell it off again if it didn't work.

Anyway - ill post results when I get a chance.

On second thought, I'll have to try it in my refractor - cant get a good read on focuser travel with my moving mirror scope, but the frac has regular draw tube with some markings.

As far as image being just as bright, I can't help there. I don't own. 14mm eyepiece. I just Barlow the RKE or my Meade SWA 28mm to get equivalent. I think it has good transmission though. If you consider the number of elements in the RKE coupled with number of elements in a Barlow, it still equals out to some of the more expensive designed eyepieces using 5 or 6 elements or more.

Edited by Vondragonnoggin (04/27/12 07:01 AM)


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5193215 - 04/27/12 11:22 AM

Hernando,

Quote:

Quote:

I see somebody sent a super-wide post and ruined this thread for those without super-wide monitors.






Oh, so that's why this thread's format looked kinda off (have to scroll sideways beyond the screen to read lines) in my smartphone's browser! But it's just alright really.




Yeah, I hate it when that happens!

One way to get around it - besides buying a super-wide monitor or resetting your page layout - is to not click on "show all" but just click on the number of the page you want to see. Then only the page with the offendingly-wide post will be a problem.

Mike


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5193231 - 04/27/12 11:32 AM

Starman81, you're right about ER generally getting increased by the barlow as Hermie and Vondragonnoggin confirmed too, although it might not be noticeable in some instances, like tonight, I used the Televue 2x barlow on the RKE28mm (to answer Leonards questions about barlow use; pls see pic on my next post addressed to him). And the ER increase with the barlow is not all that significant - I was able to view the Moon without blackouts/beaning on the RKE28mm even with the increased ER on the barlow. Maybe the point here is that those getting into barlows shouldn't worry too much about the increased ER, well at least to my eyes, it's not a deal-breaker.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5193238 - 04/27/12 11:36 AM

Quote:

Hernando,

Quote:

Quote:

I see somebody sent a super-wide post and ruined this thread for those without super-wide monitors.






Oh, so that's why this thread's format looked kinda off (have to scroll sideways beyond the screen to read lines) in my smartphone's browser! But it's just alright really.




Yeah, I hate it when that happens!

One way to get around it - besides buying a super-wide monitor or resetting your page layout - is to not click on "show all" but just click on the number of the page you want to see. Then only the page with the offendingly-wide post will be a problem.




Thanks for the tip Mike! I'll do that.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: EdZ]
      #5193243 - 04/27/12 11:40 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hi Hernando,

I can guarantee yours is not in the most recent housing. Yours reads Edmund Scientific. That brand ceased to exist in the 70's.





Sorry, that would be incorrect.

The photo of his eyepiece shows EDMUND SCIENTIFIC CO. followed by a series of dots, then RKE28 followed by two dots.

I bought a complete set of these in 2000-2001, from Edmund Scientific, and that is the exact same as it appears on mine.

FWIW, I sold all of them but the 21.5mm since that one appeared to give the best image quality, and I really couldn't stand the 28.7mm with it's frequent kidney-beaning.

So it seems there may be three versions of the orange banded RKE eyepiece.

EDMUND OPTICS
EDMUND SCIENTIFIC
EDMUND SCEINTIFIC CO.





Edz thanks for your input! 3 RKE versions, all the more better, more selections!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: EdZ]
      #5193264 - 04/27/12 11:56 AM

Quote:

So it seems there may be three versions of the orange banded RKE eyepiece.

EDMUND OPTICS
EDMUND SCIENTIFIC
EDMUND SCEINTIFIC CO.





There is a 4th also, at least for the 8mm: Edmund Industrial Optics - pic

Edited by BillP (04/27/12 11:59 AM)


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5193313 - 04/27/12 12:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Hi Hernando,

I can guarantee yours is not in the most recent housing. Yours reads Edmund Scientific. That brand ceased to exist in the 70's.





Sorry, that would be incorrect.

The photo of his eyepiece shows EDMUND SCIENTIFIC CO. followed by a series of dots, then RKE28 followed by two dots.

I bought a complete set of these in 2000-2001, from Edmund Scientific, and that is the exact same as it appears on mine.

FWIW, I sold all of them but the 21.5mm since that one appeared to give the best image quality, and I really couldn't stand the 28.7mm with it's frequent kidney-beaning.

So it seems there may be three versions of the orange banded RKE eyepiece.

EDMUND OPTICS
EDMUND SCIENTIFIC
EDMUND SCEINTIFIC CO.





Edz thanks for your input! 3 RKE versions, all the more better, more selections!

Best,




All "identical" too! More selections-yes, all the more better-? One eyepiece comes to mind immediately and I am sure there are others. Meade 4000 Super Plossel. At least three seperate versions made in at least that many country's. All have the same name but if givin a choice there is one version I would cross off the list right off. In this case at least more is not better.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: leonard]
      #5193334 - 04/27/12 12:37 PM

Quote:

I have a 28mm RKE and like it very much in my slower scopes .
I would like to barlow it on my 7inch F10 reflector but need some relevant information before the purchase of the barlow lens .
Some posters in this thread have said positive things about barlowing the RKE 28mm , could you give an estimate of its performance when barlowed compaired to an eyepiece of equal FL ., is the image just as bright , less bright ?? Any unusual problems with barlowing it ???

Last is for me the critical point of my asking , my 7 inch scope only has about 1 inch of focuser travel , so with the barlow if I need to rack in the focuser more that 3/4 of an inch from where the 28mm by its self comes to focus it will not work for my 7 inch scope .

I don't use barlows so have no experience with them and don't know what to expect .

I thank you for any and all of your insight .




Hi again Leonard; although it was cloudy here tonight, there were instances when the clouds cleared up and I was able to do some brief tests on the barlowed RKE 28mm to answer some of your questions. I decided to use the Televue 2x barlow, the 2x being the most popular among barlow users:


RKE 28mm (Edmund Scientific) & TV 2x barlow on WO66 Zenithstar F/5.9 SD refractor

Used the WO66 (note, it has a customized aluminum upper lip with a lower/shorter profile than the original OPT 2" dielectric lip) because it had a scale on its focuser for measuring differences in focus points, useful for our purpose. Target - the waxing crescent Moon:


Moon 4/27/2012; afocal shot with Kodak digicam through the RKE28mm/TV 2x barlow (~27x magnification)

For comparison, I used a Televue 15mm plossl as a rough equivalent of the 2x barlowed 28.7mm RKE:



These are the focus points based on the scale on the focuser:

RKE28 (no barlow): 1.8 cm
TV 15mm: 2.1 cm
RKE28 with TV 2x barlow: 2.45 cm

So, with the RKE28mm on the TV 2x barlow, there is an out-focus racking difference of 6.5mm or around 1/4 of an inch compared to the RKE by itself.

With regards to whether the barlowed RKE28mm becomes dimmer than the TV15mm plossl, to my eye there is a slight decrease in brightness but not that noticeable. Same thing for sharpness, the barlowed RKE is very sharp, although it seems the TV15 presents an ever so lightly crispier image. Also, unexpectedly, there is a hint of the TV15 being slightly more neutral in tone (many have talked about the so called "coffee tint" on the TV plossls) compared to the barlowed RKE28. Difference in actual magnification may account for the perceived variances; the barlowed RKE seemed to magnify Luna more than what a 1mm focal length difference (28mm barlowed 2x = 14mm vs TV15mm) will do. Also, there is some vignetting on the RKE/TV barlow combo, maybe the outer 5% from the field stop which was blurred. Powermates are better in controlling if not eliminating vignetting. Since the RKE28mm is such a small EP (relatively), it is not too cumbersome or troublesome to barlow, not like the big behemoths which are so common nowadays. These are my findings, which may differ from what others see, and I hope they are useful to you, thanks.

P.S. For more info about barlows, I have a blog post all about it, click below:

Barlow Use & Tricks - Televue, Antares, Omni, GSO

Best,


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saemark30
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 02/21/12

Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5193359 - 04/27/12 12:49 PM

We'll need to take it apart to see which lenses are coated. Perhaps the 3 versions have differences there.

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Starman81
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: saemark30]
      #5193461 - 04/27/12 01:56 PM Attachment (18 downloads)

Nice results there Hernando, with a great turnaround time to boot! I was thinking of the following inputs to the test bench (see below), since the Orion Lanthanum has the same 45 degree AFOV and coincidentally the one I have falls into the desired 14mm slot for comparison.

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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: BillP]
      #5193993 - 04/27/12 08:22 PM

Hmmm.. wondering why that "Edmund Industrial" only came in 8mm? I guess the "fourth kind" was a special one.

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: greju]
      #5194004 - 04/27/12 08:30 PM

Quote:


All "identical" too! More selections-yes, all the more better-? One eyepiece comes to mind immediately and I am sure there are others. Meade 4000 Super Plossel. At least three seperate versions made in at least that many country's. All have the same name but if givin a choice there is one version I would cross off the list right off. In this case at least more is not better.




Hoping that that "one eyepiece" Meade 4000 super plossl you mentioned is not the one I have :



Or is it? It seems your're the expert around here when it comes to bad eggs in the basket.

Best,


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greju
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5194017 - 04/27/12 08:47 PM

"Or is it? It seems your're the expert around here when it comes to bad eggs in the basket."

I never claimed to be an expert in anything let alone "bad eggs in the basket". Whatever that means.
I will graciously answer your question though. If it does not say "Japan" on it then it is. Always glad to help out people that need it.


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zombie1210
sage


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5194019 - 04/27/12 08:48 PM

I just got mine today. Waiting for clear skies. But I tried it on some birds and trees. WOW......what's it got, something like 2 inches of eye relief? I had to put the rubber boot thing on it. Looks ugly with that thing on, but it sure helps the blackouts. But its a very "crisp" eyepiece, for lack of a better word.

Should be a nice addition, once I can point it UP.


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: saemark30]
      #5194041 - 04/27/12 09:10 PM

Quote:

We'll need to take it apart to see which lenses are coated. Perhaps the 3 versions have differences there.




Alright, please do and tell us what you find out, thanks.

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Starman81]
      #5194083 - 04/27/12 10:26 PM

Quote:

Nice results there Hernando, with a great turnaround time to boot! I was thinking of the following inputs to the test bench (see below), since the Orion Lanthanum has the same 45 degree AFOV and coincidentally the one I have falls into the desired 14mm slot for comparison.




Thanks!
Your team there looks like the a perfect test bench for the barlowed RKE28mm!

I also have some 14mm's, the ES 100° & 82°:


Explore Scientific 14mm - 100° & 82°

But I went for the Televue 15mm plossl because its AFOV of 50° was nearer to the RKE's 45° and the number of glass too was closer in count (4 on the plossl) as compared to the more complex & compound 100/82 optical designs. On second thoughts, maybe I should have gone the 14mm way! Oh well, another time maybe.

Best


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: greju]
      #5194200 - 04/27/12 11:38 PM

Quote:

I will graciously answer your question though. If it does not say "Japan" on it then it is.




Thanks! You mean I should be seeing this mark:



But no, the above is on my Meade 40mm 3000 series; the M26 had "China" marked on its black body! Now you've done it, you've hurt the feelings of my M26, it's sulking at the corner now (What's wrong with it anyway? I have to give it another chance, another spin to ascertain if it is indeed a loser.)

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: zombie1210]
      #5194238 - 04/27/12 11:59 PM

Quote:

I just got mine today. Waiting for clear skies. But I tried it on some birds and trees. WOW......what's it got, something like 2 inches of eye relief? I had to put the rubber boot thing on it. Looks ugly with that thing on, but it sure helps the blackouts. But its a very "crisp" eyepiece, for lack of a better word.

Should be a nice addition, once I can point it UP.




Congrats! The ER surely is long, around 24.5mm. But the blackouts/beaning were just temporary and ephemeral, present only during the initial stages of using it, a rite of passage if you may. Once I got used to the right eye position, I couldn't even induce blackouts anymore. Try it while sitting down comfy on an astro chair, that should help get a steady view, the more time you spend with the RKE28, the better it gets. (Yeah, the funky rubber boot helps in this regard, but to my eye, it cancels the wondrous "floating" view which for me is the essence and reason for being of this magical EP. )

Best,


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nevy
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5194464 - 04/28/12 07:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I will graciously answer your question though. If it does not say "Japan" on it then it is.




Thanks! You mean I should be seeing this mark:



But no, the above is on my Meade 40mm 3000 series; the M26 had "China" marked on its black body! Now you've done it, you've hurt the feelings of my M26, it's sulking at the corner now (What's wrong with it anyway? I have to give it another chance, another spin to ascertain if it is indeed a loser.)

Best,



I picked this one up on eBay , I like it alot
[image]http://[/image]
[image]http://[/image]


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Sarkikos
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: nevy]
      #5194557 - 04/28/12 09:12 AM

IME & IMO, the eye relief on the RKE 28mm is really too long for comfortable observing if your site has a lot of glare from neighborhood lights. I'm not talking about light pollution in the sky; I'm talking about glare from surrounding lights. Inserting the 28 in a Barlow or in a binoviewer with OCA only increases the eye relief and makes the problem worse.

These eyepieces are best used at a dark site or at any rate, a site that does not have much ambient glare. Otherwise, be sure to invest in long eyecups for the RKE 28mm and a light shroud to throw over your head.

Mike


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leonard
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5194904 - 04/28/12 12:56 PM

Hello Hernando ,

>>>>>> What barlow do you intend to use, what power? <<<<<

I was thinking a 2X barlow .

Leonard


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Vondragonnoggin
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: leonard]
      #5194920 - 04/28/12 01:03 PM

Quote:

Hello Hernando ,

>>>>>> What barlow do you intend to use, what power? <<<<<

I was thinking a 2X barlow .

Leonard




Leonard, I still haven't had a chance to try the new ones from surplus shed out with the barlow, but I can tell you that I use them on my BT70 binocular telescope which has helical focusers with very short adjustment play and the adjustment from unbarlowed to barlowed (parks silver series 2x barlow) has been very minor. Will still try to give a try this weekend weather permitting.


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leonard
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5194927 - 04/28/12 01:07 PM

Hello Vondragonnoggin ,


>>>>>> That is some short focuser travel you have though. Kind of an expensive gamble, although if you bought a less expensive used one, you could experiment and sell it off again if it didn't work. <<<<<<<

Yes it is short , the scope is a 7 inch F10 off-axis reflector . The secondary mirror sits right under the focuser . It came with a helical focuser that I soon learned to dislike . After seeking a focuser that would only travel about 1 inch , I called Moonlight and they made up a short travel focuser for me . It works great , I love it . I have tried about 9 different eyepieces in it and all come to focus except a 14mm Meade UWA and it just misses by about 2mm. Scope gives good images .

Leonard


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leonard
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5194967 - 04/28/12 01:29 PM

Hello Hernando


>>>
So, with the RKE28mm on the TV 2x barlow, there is an out-focus racking difference of 6.5mm or around 1/4 of an inch compared to the RKE by itself.

With regards to whether the barlowed RKE28mm becomes dimmer than the TV15mm plossl, to my eye there is a slight decrease in brightness but not that noticeable. Same thing for sharpness, the barlowed RKE is very sharp, although it seems the TV15 presents an ever so lightly crispier image. Also, unexpectedly, there is a hint of the TV15 being slightly more neutral in tone (many have talked about the so called "coffee tint" on the TV plossls) compared to the barlowed RKE28. Difference in actual magnification may account for the perceived variances; the barlowed RKE seemed to magnify Luna more than what a 1mm focal length difference (28mm barlowed 2x = 14mm vs TV15mm) will do. Also, there is some vignetting on the RKE/TV barlow combo, maybe the outer 5% from the field stop which was blurred. Powermates are better in controlling if not eliminating vignetting. Since the RKE28mm is such a small EP (relatively), it is not too cumbersome or troublesome to barlow, not like the big behemoths which are so common nowadays. These are my findings, which may differ from what others see, and I hope they are useful to you, thanks. <<<<<<


Thanks for posting the pic's , and the information seems to be just what I need . The small amount of vignetting should not be a problem for me .
A 1/4 inch of outward focuser travel sounds like it may work for me . I will check the position of my RKE 28 to see where it is in the focuser . If it looks like I'll have enough room , I'll get a barlow .

Thank You very much , Leonard


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Starman81]
      #5194973 - 04/28/12 01:34 PM

Hello starman 81 ,

If you compare the eyepieces and barlow please let us know what you find .

Leonard


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leonard
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5194977 - 04/28/12 01:38 PM

Hi Mike

light shroud to throw over your head.


I don't do it much but a shroud to me would seem to be the way to go .


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leonard
scholastic sledgehammer
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Vondragonnoggin]
      #5194985 - 04/28/12 01:41 PM

Hello Vondragonnoggin ,


>>>>>>>> Leonard, I still haven't had a chance to try the new ones from surplus shed out with the barlow, but I can tell you that I use them on my BT70 binocular telescope which has helical focusers with very short adjustment play and the adjustment from unbarlowed to barlowed (parks silver series 2x barlow) has been very minor. Will still try to give a try this weekend weather permitting.

I thank you and look forward to your results .

Leonard


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: nevy]
      #5195592 - 04/28/12 09:20 PM

Quote:


I picked this one up on eBay , I like it alot
[image]http://[/image]
[image]http://[/image]




Thanks, very nice pseudo-Masuyama 26mm smoothie! Will prowl eBay/AM to hunt for one like yours to go with its sibling on my stable:


5-element "Japan" Smooth-side 56mm Meade Super Plossl

On first use, it wowed me, and was reminded of the Naglers - expansive, bright & sharp; loved the views!

Best,


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DonAstro
journeyman


Reged: 04/25/12

Loc: Michigan
Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5195604 - 04/28/12 09:43 PM Attachment (23 downloads)

Since everyone is posting pics of their RKE's, I couldn't stand it any longer I have been trying to join these forums for three years and could never get an account Turns out my username is similar to a vendor's username and somehow I always got rejected with no explanation. This time I finally got a hold of one of the admins and they helped me out. WooHoo!! WooHoo!!

Anyhow, << Don take's a deep breath >> back to RKE eyepieces.... I have a 1979 RKE28 that I got with an Edmund 3 inch f/10 reflector for Christmas as a boy. Later in life, about 1999 to be exact, I got another when I bought a new Astroscan. Both of these look identical, other than slight wear due to the age difference. About 6 years ago I came upon an old telescope sitting on the curb on "big trash day". Since it looked similar to my 3 inch and had 2 old and odd looking eyepieces, I took it home. I have never even looked through those 2 eyepieces (see pics below) until I started reading this thread a week ago. I think I have what others above are calling one of the old 1 1/8 RKE's, only mine, like one posted above, has absolutely no markings on it at all. It also seems to have a smaller or narrower bevel than others pictured here. Two nights ago I gave it its first light with me and it was not very impressive. I think it might be due to my two groups being reversed with the curved edges pointing away from each other. Did anyone else make anything that looked this similar to Edmund stuff from way back when?

Anyway, I am posting pics and would like to hear what others think of this.

Thanks,
Don


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DonAstro
journeyman


Reged: 04/25/12

Loc: Michigan
Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: DonAstro]
      #5195605 - 04/28/12 09:47 PM Attachment (25 downloads)

Another pic....

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DonAstro
journeyman


Reged: 04/25/12

Loc: Michigan
Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: DonAstro]
      #5195608 - 04/28/12 09:48 PM Attachment (27 downloads)

And one of the lenses....

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BillP
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: DonAstro]
      #5195802 - 04/28/12 11:53 PM

Yup...someone took apart and assembled backwards. Place them so the curved surfaces are pointing inward and you should see vast improvement.

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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: leonard]
      #5195828 - 04/29/12 12:28 AM

Quote:

Hello Hernando


>>>
So, with the RKE28mm on the TV 2x barlow, there is an out-focus racking difference of 6.5mm or around 1/4 of an inch compared to the RKE by itself.

With regards to whether the barlowed RKE28mm becomes dimmer than the TV15mm plossl, to my eye there is a slight decrease in brightness but not that noticeable. Same thing for sharpness, the barlowed RKE is very sharp, although it seems the TV15 presents an ever so lightly crispier image. Also, unexpectedly, there is a hint of the TV15 being slightly more neutral in tone (many have talked about the so called "coffee tint" on the TV plossls) compared to the barlowed RKE28. Difference in actual magnification may account for the perceived variances; the barlowed RKE seemed to magnify Luna more than what a 1mm focal length difference (28mm barlowed 2x = 14mm vs TV15mm) will do. Also, there is some vignetting on the RKE/TV barlow combo, maybe the outer 5% from the field stop which was blurred. Powermates are better in controlling if not eliminating vignetting. Since the RKE28mm is such a small EP (relatively), it is not too cumbersome or troublesome to barlow, not like the big behemoths which are so common nowadays. These are my findings, which may differ from what others see, and I hope they are useful to you, thanks. <<<<<<


Thanks for posting the pic's , and the information seems to be just what I need . The small amount of vignetting should not be a problem for me .
A 1/4 inch of outward focuser travel sounds like it may work for me . I will check the position of my RKE 28 to see where it is in the focuser . If it looks like I'll have enough room , I'll get a barlow .

Thank You very much , Leonard




Pleasure's mine Leonard, thanks.
Here's something new about the focus racking difference between the barlowed & un-barlowed RKE 28mm, tried it out with my C8:


RKE28 on C8 SCT w/2x TV barlow

Surprised that with the RKE28 barlowed with the TV2x on the C8 SCT, the focuser needed just a bit of in-travel (not out) of less than a quarter of a turn of the tuning knob as compared to the RKE28 without the barlow. It's consistent with Vondragonnoggin's observation that a very short adjustment is required to reach focus.

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: DonAstro]
      #5195866 - 04/29/12 01:18 AM

Quote:

Since everyone is posting pics of their RKE's, I couldn't stand it any longer I have been trying to join these forums for three years and could never get an account Turns out my username is similar to a vendor's username and somehow I always got rejected with no explanation. This time I finally got a hold of one of the admins and they helped me out. WooHoo!! WooHoo!!

Anyhow, << Don take's a deep breath >> back to RKE eyepieces.... I have a 1979 RKE28 that I got with an Edmund 3 inch f/10 reflector for Christmas as a boy. Later in life, about 1999 to be exact, I got another when I bought a new Astroscan. Both of these look identical, other than slight wear due to the age difference. About 6 years ago I came upon an old telescope sitting on the curb on "big trash day". Since it looked similar to my 3 inch and had 2 old and odd looking eyepieces, I took it home. I have never even looked through those 2 eyepieces (see pics below) until I started reading this thread a week ago. I think I have what others above are calling one of the old 1 1/8 RKE's, only mine, like one posted above, has absolutely no markings on it at all. It also seems to have a smaller or narrower bevel than others pictured here. Two nights ago I gave it its first light with me and it was not very impressive. I think it might be due to my two groups being reversed with the curved edges pointing away from each other. Did anyone else make anything that looked this similar to Edmund stuff from way back when?

Anyway, I am posting pics and would like to hear what others think of this.

Thanks,
Don




Don, welcome to the forum (I know, 3 years delayed welcome too ), you've got one of those old 1-1/8" pre-RKE28's which to BillP's assessment is a bit better than the current Edmund Optics/Scientific version, so take good care of it! (If not, I can take it off yours hands if you're willing )

Great advice from BillP on how to fix your unit, am posting your image with Jaimo!'s exploded view (hope you don't mind Jaimo) superimposed on it (at the bottom) for reference:



Let us know how it works out when you've reversed the lenses, thanks.

BTW, great story and read about how you came about with the EP's, thanks for posting.

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: DonAstro]
      #5195934 - 04/29/12 02:42 AM

Quote:

I think I have what others above are calling one of the old 1 1/8 RKE's, only mine, like one posted above, has absolutely no markings on it at all.




Don, this all-black 1-1/8" RKE with no markings is similar to that of Chuck Hards' (see page 5 of this thread) who posted a reference to his 3 RKE28mm's shown below, the silver one (originally black), of which he later (p.6) said: "The knurling is slightly more proud than on my black one, which, btw, doesn't have RKE engraved on it." (Chuck, am borrowing your image for reference here, hope you don't mind, thanks; we're also waiting for the new pics that you mentioned earlier, thanks.) Chuck's silver one is the oldest RKE28mm posted here, around 45 years old, and yours, having a "smaller bevel" than his silver & black might predate the 2 and even be older!


Chuck Hard's 3 RKE28mm's

Now I believe in the saying "one man's trash may be another man's treasure!"

Best,


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Boot
wildly diverse musical tastes
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: DonAstro]
      #5196097 - 04/29/12 08:16 AM

Don -

It's good to hear that you got the help you needed to become a member of Cloudy Nights. Your persistence paid off.

Like others, I enjoyed your "Trash to Treasure" story.

Glad to have you here (finally).

Welcome to Cloudy Nights,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: DonAstro]
      #5196340 - 04/29/12 10:50 AM

Thanks for sharing the photos of that eyepiece, Don, and the story behind it... also, welcome to Cloudynights!

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: DonAstro]
      #5196515 - 04/29/12 12:49 PM

Question Don - from the photo that you posted it seems the eye lens might protrude over the upper rim of the EP. Is it really the case? I remember Iluxo mentioned earlier in the thread about the lens of the RKE28 going over the rim thus making it susceptible to scratching. Thanks.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5196534 - 04/29/12 12:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I think I have what others above are calling one of the old 1 1/8 RKE's, only mine, like one posted above, has absolutely no markings on it at all.




Don, this all-black 1-1/8" RKE with no markings is similar to that of Chuck Hards' (see page 5 of this thread) who posted a reference to his 3 RKE28mm's shown below, the silver one (originally black), of which he later (p.6) said: "The knurling is slightly more proud than on my black one, which, btw, doesn't have RKE engraved on it." (Chuck, am borrowing your image for reference here, hope you don't mind, thanks; we're also waiting for the new pics that you mentioned earlier, thanks.) Chuck's silver one is the oldest RKE28mm posted here, around 45 years old, and yours, having a "smaller bevel" than his silver & black might predate the 2 and even be older!


Chuck Hard's 3 RKE28mm's

Now I believe in the saying "one man's trash may be another man's treasure!"

Best,




Just a question. If it does not say RKE on it is it really an RKE? I think I would only consider one of the three eyepieces pictured an RKE. But that's just me.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: greju]
      #5196977 - 04/29/12 05:36 PM

Quote:

Just a question. If it does not say RKE on it is it really an RKE? I think I would only consider one of the three eyepieces pictured an RKE. But that's just me.




If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, squawks like a duck, then it must be a duck!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5197008 - 04/29/12 06:02 PM

I had only a few minutes of clear sky to try mine. It is definitely unique in my EP collection. It's sort of like a little "porthole" to the sky. I took the rubber bootie off and just got used to keeping my eye back a bit. Quite nice once I got used to it.

I like variety. A nice EP, and relatively inexpensive.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: greju]
      #5197194 - 04/29/12 08:11 PM

Greg...what if the box it came in had RKE on it or the manual for the scope it came with originally called it a RKE?

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: RA-DEC]
      #5197445 - 04/29/12 11:13 PM

Quote:

Greg...what if the box it came in had RKE on it or the manual for the scope it came with originally called it a RKE?




Then nobody could question what it is, not even me. But I know that the one in the middle was never called that and the one on the right has not been shown with a box to my knowledge. So are they all RKE's?


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: greju]
      #5197532 - 04/30/12 12:26 AM

Greg, you're actually right, technically they're not RKE's in the strict sense, that's why Jaimo! called his 1-1/8" unit a "pre-RKE," but we can't deny the fact that they're prototypes of some sort of the RKE's and calling them as such is just a loose monicker or short-cut, all for the sake of expediency in lieu of the more politically correct term such as "pre-RKE" or "RKE-ancestor."

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5197570 - 04/30/12 01:06 AM

Which brings us to the question: What does "RKE" really stand for? Is there a definitive source that will tell us once and for all? Does it stand for:

Reverse Keller Edmund
Rank Kellner Edmund? (after David Rank, creator of the RKE?)
Rank Keller Eyepiece?
or Really Kool Eyepiece?

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5197594 - 04/30/12 01:30 AM

Quote:

IME & IMO, the eye relief on the RKE 28mm is really too long for comfortable observing if your site has a lot of glare from neighborhood lights. I'm not talking about light pollution in the sky; I'm talking about glare from surrounding lights. Inserting the 28 in a Barlow or in a binoviewer with OCA only increases the eye relief and makes the problem worse.

These eyepieces are best used at a dark site or at any rate, a site that does not have much ambient glare. Otherwise, be sure to invest in long eyecups for the RKE 28mm and a light shroud to throw over your head.

Mike




Thanks for the input Mike; I have the rubber boot/eyecup but rarely use it because the floating effect for my eye gets cancelled out. As you've suggested, the shroud over the head is a good solution as Leonard mentioned too.


RKE eyecup

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5197617 - 04/30/12 02:01 AM

I took a black sheet and draped it over my tripod legs and down onto the ground and used it with both eyes open...the effect was awesome!

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: RA-DEC]
      #5197748 - 04/30/12 06:53 AM

Thanks for the tip, will have to try that one out!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5197810 - 04/30/12 07:59 AM

Quote:

Which brings us to the question: What does "RKE" really stand for? Is there a definitive source that will tell us once and for all? Does it stand for:

Reverse Keller Edmund
Rank Kellner Edmund? (after David Rank, creator of the RKE?)
Rank Keller Eyepiece?
or Really Kool Eyepiece?

Best,




I once believed that "Rank Kellner Eyepiece" was the correct interpretation; however, according to a long-time Edmund Scientific/Edmund Optics executive who I recently spoke with, the acronym RKE stands for:

Rank Kellner Edmund

Case closed. Definitively.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5197865 - 04/30/12 08:51 AM

Quote:

The ER surely is long, around 24.5mm. But the blackouts/beaning were just temporary and ephemeral, present only during the initial stages of using it, a rite of passage if you may. Once I got used to the right eye position, I couldn't even induce blackouts anymore. Try it while sitting down comfy on an astro chair, that should help get a steady view, the more time you spend with the RKE28, the better it gets.




I spent 3 years with it. Never got better for me. That's why I finally sold it. I will say one thing, it was unique. But from my point of view, it was one of the most annoying eyepieces I've ever used.

BTW, regarding some posts above.

the 28RKE focal length is 28.7mm The field stop diameter is 23.26mm, so the fov is effectively 46.5°
the 15mm Tv pl is 15mm with a field stop of 12.52mm, so fov is effectively 47.8.

You will never know exactly what power you are getting with any eyepiece in a barlow unless you actually test for magnificcation. The resultant power of any eyepiece in a barlow, among other things, is dependant on the distance from the barlow lens to the eyepiece field stop. As that varies, power varies. The shorter the barlow, the more it varies. For instance, I've tested my Celestron Ultima barlow with many eyepieces and got powers all the way from 2.05x to 2.4x. Powermates don't act quite the same way and the power factor is more reliable across a range of eyepieces.

edz


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5197873 - 04/30/12 08:58 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Which brings us to the question: What does "RKE" really stand for? Is there a definitive source that will tell us once and for all? Does it stand for:

Reverse Keller Edmund
Rank Kellner Edmund? (after David Rank, creator of the RKE?)
Rank Keller Eyepiece?
or Really Kool Eyepiece?

Best,




I once believed that "Rank Kellner Eyepiece" was the correct interpretation; however, according to a long-time Edmund Scientific/Edmund Optics executive who I recently spoke with, the acronym RKE stands for:

Rank Kellner Edmund

Case closed. Definitively.




That settles it with a ring finality to it, thanks!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: EdZ]
      #5197877 - 04/30/12 09:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The ER surely is long, around 24.5mm. But the blackouts/beaning were just temporary and ephemeral, present only during the initial stages of using it, a rite of passage if you may. Once I got used to the right eye position, I couldn't even induce blackouts anymore. Try it while sitting down comfy on an astro chair, that should help get a steady view, the more time you spend with the RKE28, the better it gets.




I spent 3 years with it. Never got better for me. That's why I finally sold it.

edz




Edz, thanks, I should consider myself lucky then in the sense of being able to acclimate well with the rather long ER and tricky eye positioning of the RKE28mm in a relatively short period of time. Am curious and like to ask whether you did get that sense of the "floating" view that so many have said they experienced with the RKE28 (while you still owned one)? Thanks.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: EdZ]
      #5197878 - 04/30/12 09:03 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The ER surely is long, around 24.5mm. But the blackouts/beaning were just temporary and ephemeral, present only during the initial stages of using it, a rite of passage if you may. Once I got used to the right eye position, I couldn't even induce blackouts anymore. Try it while sitting down comfy on an astro chair, that should help get a steady view, the more time you spend with the RKE28, the better it gets.




I spent 3 years with it. Never got better for me. That's why I finally sold it.

edz




I think it took a couple weeks for me of using it here and there a few times. It was a learning curve using two at the same time, but more like an hour of practicing to get that one. Seated observing helps. So does not trying to get the closest view to where you see the field stop.

I had commented last year in a thread about the apparent field of view 45 degree spec seeming like it was actually larger and that I don't even see a field stop really. I think that was due to eye placement actually being slightly fiurther away than eye relief.

Helps keep blackouts from happening.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: ibase]
      #5197951 - 04/30/12 10:01 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

The ER surely is long, around 24.5mm. But the blackouts/beaning were just temporary and ephemeral, present only during the initial stages of using it, a rite of passage if you may. Once I got used to the right eye position, I couldn't even induce blackouts anymore. Try it while sitting down comfy on an astro chair, that should help get a steady view, the more time you spend with the RKE28, the better it gets.




I spent 3 years with it. Never got better for me. That's why I finally sold it.

edz




Edz, thanks, I should consider myself lucky then in the sense of being able to acclimate well with the rather long ER and tricky eye positioning of the RKE28mm in a relatively short period of time. Am curious and like to ask whether you did get that sense of the "floating" view that so many have said they experienced with the RKE28? Thanks.

Best,




I wrote my reviews of the RKEs 7 or 8 years ago. There's a vast amount of information on the RKEs in the archives.

Yes I could notice the floating effect. I just didn't want to spend my time trying to hold my eye in the right postion to see it. You should not have to work to get the benefits of an eyepiece. Instead I use a pair of 26mm smooth-side TV plossls. The view is instant, with no work at all. And the full field performance of the 26TVpl surpasses that of the 28RKE. So, it was a no-brainer for me.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36mm's? new [Re: EdZ]
      #5198045 - 04/30/12 11:06 AM

Thanks Edz! I guess the RKE28 is not for everyone, which can be said for just about any other eyepiece around. The "vast amount of information on the RKEs in the archives" is a testament though to its popularity, and I suppose new threads about it like this one pop up regularly in the forum as new owners, re-discoverers and admirers get caught up in the phalanx of its ever-expanding dragnet.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5198285 - 04/30/12 01:23 PM

Quote:

I once believed that "Rank Kellner Eyepiece" was the correct interpretation; however, according to a long-time Edmund Scientific/Edmund Optics executive who I recently spoke with, the acronym RKE stands for:

Rank Kellner Edmund

Case closed. Definitively.




Here's a clip from Wikipedia about "Eyepiece" in the section regarding the RKE design (click here):

.. There is some ambiguity about what RKE stands for. According to Edmund Scientific Corporation, RKE stands for Rank Kellner Eyepiece[15][citation needed]. Others[who?] speculate it stands for Rank Kellner Edmund or Reversed Kellner Eyepiece; the latter because it is in effect a reversed version of the Kellner design on which it is based. ..

I wonder whether the above quote saying "According to Edmund Scientific Corporation" had been verified considering there's a note - "citation needed." Maybe the entry needs to be modified/corrected by Edmund Scientific Corp. staff themselves so that any ambiguities will finally be resolved? Might you be able to inform the long-time Edmund executive about this situation to make representations with Wikipedia for a correction? Thanks.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5199033 - 04/30/12 08:39 PM

I think anyone can edit a Wiki entry if they're registered (I'm not), but the only cite I could offer would be personal email correspondence.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5199109 - 04/30/12 09:15 PM

Amicus, I remember your characterization (Rank-Kellner-Edmund) from old Edmund catalogs and S&T ads.

Seems like verifying this would be a good use of S&T on DVD, which I do not currently own.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: rdandrea]
      #5199386 - 05/01/12 12:06 AM

Quote:

I think anyone can edit a Wiki entry if they're registered (I'm not), but the only cite I could offer would be personal email correspondence.




You're right, any registered Wikipedia member can do modifications therein; well, at least it's out that an attribution had been made to their company, it's up to Edmund corp. to rectify the Wiki entry if they so wish to do so. In the meantime, will stick to what you've earlier posted, RKE = Rank Kellner Edmund, thanks.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5199423 - 05/01/12 12:32 AM

RKE= Reverse Kellner Eyepiece.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5199643 - 05/01/12 08:18 AM

Thanks for bringing the Wikipedia entry to the thread's attention, Hernando... yes, the RKE definition as Rank Kellner Edmund I received is straight from Edmund.

Rdandrea, I agree, a S&T search might turn up a better cite, or if anyone has an Edmund catalog from the early 80's, a perusal thereof might prove fruitful.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ngc2289]
      #5199735 - 05/01/12 09:20 AM

Quote:

RKE= Reverse Kellner Eyepiece.




Source please? Thanks.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5200020 - 05/01/12 12:15 PM

Astronomical Optics:Part 4, Common Telescope Eyepiece Designs by Chuck Hawk, www.quadibloc.com/science/opt 04.htm "Eyepieces", Evolution of the Astronomical Eyepiece.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ngc2289]
      #5200059 - 05/01/12 12:31 PM

Well, isn't that sort of like saying any post that's ever appeared on Cloudy Nights that states RKE stands for Rank-Kellner-Edmund could be a citation?

edz


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: EdZ]
      #5200520 - 05/01/12 05:06 PM

This afternoon, I undertook to examine every Edmund Scientific advertisement in S&T from 1977 through 1980, and although there were many full-page ads specifically for the RKE line (which at that time consisted solely of 28mm, 15mm and 8mm focal lengths), none mentioned the derivation of the acronym. Until my recent correspondence, I was positive that "Rank Kellner Eyepiece" was the correct term.


A search of Edmund catalogs from the period would seem to be in order, as Rdandrea has suggested... if anyone could undertake this, perhaps it would settle the matter. It may well be that the "E" in RKE has been referred to as both "Eyepiece" and "Edmund" by the company itself - perhaps the engineering department used one name, and sales the other.

A tempest in a teapot, to be sure, but intriguing nonetheless.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5200701 - 05/01/12 07:16 PM

Quote:

Question Don - from the photo that you posted it seems the eye lens might protrude over the upper rim of the EP. Is it really the case? I remember Iluxo mentioned earlier in the thread about the lens of the RKE28 going over the rim thus making it susceptible to scratching. Thanks.

Best,



Sorry for the delay, Yes, when the elements were reversed as shown in my pic of the disassembled ep, the lens did protrude above the rim. I tried it out, as is, again in the daylight and it was definitely not right. Only about half the image in the center was in focus and the other half time-warped away to the edges like you were looking out the window of the Millennium Falcon when Hans took her to light speed

I reversed the elements as suggested and voila! A nice wide field focused nicely to the edge. I will have to take it out under the stars and do a comparo with the newer 3 element true RKE.

Also, I swear that somehow I knew long before the internet was available that RKE stood for Rank Kellner Eypiece. No source at the moment, but I thought I had read that either in a catalog or one of those awesome hand drawn Edmund books that came with stuff back in the day. I'll have to go dig out my boxes of old stuff and see what I can find.

Edited by DonAstro (05/01/12 07:27 PM)


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: DonAstro]
      #5200821 - 05/01/12 08:29 PM

On page 70 of The Backyard Astronomer's Guide (Dicksinson & Dyer) it says "Now discontinued, Edmund Scientific's RKE design (for David Rank modified Kellner for Edmund) reversed the lens elements from the standard arrangement, giving it a wider field (45 degrees)".

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Starman81]
      #5200897 - 05/01/12 09:14 PM

LOL, I saw that just before your post! So it is written so it shall be!

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: RA-DEC]
      #5200903 - 05/01/12 09:16 PM

Quote:

LOL, I saw that just before your post! So it is written so it shall be!




You don't believe everything you read, do you?


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: amicus sidera]
      #5201134 - 05/02/12 12:24 AM

Quote:

This afternoon, I undertook to examine every Edmund Scientific advertisement in S&T from 1977 through 1980, and although there were many full-page ads specifically for the RKE line (which at that time consisted solely of 28mm, 15mm and 8mm focal lengths), none mentioned the derivation of the acronym. Until my recent correspondence, I was positive that "Rank Kellner Eyepiece" was the correct term.


A search of Edmund catalogs from the period would seem to be in order, as Rdandrea has suggested... if anyone could undertake this, perhaps it would settle the matter. It may well be that the "E" in RKE has been referred to as both "Eyepiece" and "Edmund" by the company itself - perhaps the engineering department used one name, and sales the other.

A tempest in a teapot, to be sure, but intriguing nonetheless.




Thanks, I think we're getting nearer to settling this tempest in a teapot.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: DonAstro]
      #5201138 - 05/02/12 12:32 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Question Don - from the photo that you posted it seems the eye lens might protrude over the upper rim of the EP. Is it really the case? I remember Iluxo mentioned earlier in the thread about the lens of the RKE28 going over the rim thus making it susceptible to scratching. Thanks.

Best,



Sorry for the delay, Yes, when the elements were reversed as shown in my pic of the disassembled ep, the lens did protrude above the rim. I tried it out, as is, again in the daylight and it was definitely not right. Only about half the image in the center was in focus and the other half time-warped away to the edges like you were looking out the window of the Millennium Falcon when Hans took her to light speed

I reversed the elements as suggested and voila! A nice wide field focused nicely to the edge. I will have to take it out under the stars and do a comparo with the newer 3 element true RKE.

Also, I swear that somehow I knew long before the internet was available that RKE stood for Rank Kellner Eypiece. No source at the moment, but I thought I had read that either in a catalog or one of those awesome hand drawn Edmund books that came with stuff back in the day. I'll have to go dig out my boxes of old stuff and see what I can find.




Thanks Don, glad to hear that reversing the lens orientation seem to have worked! Now that it's done and you've got it straightened out, does the eyelens still protrude over the rim in your unit? Thanks.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Starman81]
      #5201143 - 05/02/12 12:38 AM

Quote:

On page 70 of The Backyard Astronomer's Guide (Dicksinson & Dyer) it says "Now discontinued, Edmund Scientific's RKE design (for David Rank modified Kellner for Edmund) reversed the lens elements from the standard arrangement, giving it a wider field (45 degrees)".




Nice citation Starman81, thanks! Dickinson & Dyer are much-respected astro stalwarts and I think they did their homework & research well before printing that bit about what RKE stands for. Couple that with Amicus Sidera's confirmation from an Edmund executive that indeed RKE stands for RANK KELLNER EDMUND, then the issue is probably settled, for now at least.

Best,


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RA-DEC
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: greju]
      #5201146 - 05/02/12 12:46 AM

Quote:

Quote:

LOL, I saw that just before your post! So it is written so it shall be!




You don't believe everything you read, do you?




Only if I find it using the Google machine Greg...


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Starman81
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5201176 - 05/02/12 01:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

On page 70 of The Backyard Astronomer's Guide (Dicksinson & Dyer) it says "Now discontinued, Edmund Scientific's RKE design (for David Rank modified Kellner for Edmund) reversed the lens elements from the standard arrangement, giving it a wider field (45 degrees)".




Nice citation Starman81, thanks! Dickinson & Dyer are much-respected astro stalwarts and I think they did their homework & research well before printing that bit about what RKE stands for. Couple that with Amicus Sidera's confirmation from an Edmund executive that indeed RKE stands for RANK KELLNER EDMUND, then the issue is probably settled, for now at least.

Best,




Sure thing, Hernando! The RKE 28 is a novel eyepiece that everyone should try out... What have you got to lose??


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ngc2289]
      #5201178 - 05/02/12 01:36 AM



Quote:


RKE= Reverse Kellner Eyepiece.

Astronomical Optics:Part 4, Common Telescope Eyepiece Designs by Chuck Hawk, www.quadibloc.com/science/opt 04.htm "Eyepieces", Evolution of the Astronomical Eyepiece.




Thanks. Here's the passage from the above site:

"The Reversed Kellner eyepiece also illustrates the principle of placing additional elements in the field lens instead of the eye lens to correct aberrations. The illustration here attempts to approximate the RKE eyepiece sold by Edmund Scientific."

It would seem that the author did not categorically say that the "RKE" stands for "Reversed Kellner eyepiece" (didn't even capitalize the "e" in eyepiece if that were the intent) and was merely categorizing the RKE's as belonging to the Reversed Kellner genre/design. So, I don't really know..

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Starman81]
      #5201188 - 05/02/12 01:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

On page 70 of The Backyard Astronomer's Guide (Dicksinson & Dyer) it says "Now discontinued, Edmund Scientific's RKE design (for David Rank modified Kellner for Edmund) reversed the lens elements from the standard arrangement, giving it a wider field (45 degrees)".




Nice citation Starman81, thanks! Dickinson & Dyer are much-respected astro stalwarts and I think they did their homework & research well before printing that bit about what RKE stands for. Couple that with Amicus Sidera's confirmation from an Edmund executive that indeed RKE stands for RANK KELLNER EDMUND, then the issue is probably settled, for now at least.

Best,




Sure thing, Hernando! The RKE 28 is a novel eyepiece that everyone should try out... What have you got to lose??




Hear hear! $35/$62 is bearable even if it was the worst EP purchase mistake one had ever made! (Besides, many would be willing take if off one's hand in the event that it didn't work out well.)

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: ibase]
      #5201887 - 05/02/12 01:24 PM

Quote:



Quote:


RKE= Reverse Kellner Eyepiece.

Astronomical Optics:Part 4, Common Telescope Eyepiece Designs by Chuck Hawk, www.quadibloc.com/science/opt 04.htm "Eyepieces", Evolution of the Astronomical Eyepiece.




Thanks. Here's the passage from the above site:

"The Reversed Kellner eyepiece also illustrates the principle of placing additional elements in the field lens instead of the eye lens to correct aberrations. The illustration here attempts to approximate the RKE eyepiece sold by Edmund Scientific."

It would seem that the author did not categorically say that the "RKE" stands for "Reversed Kellner eyepiece" (didn't even capitalize the "e" in eyepiece if that were the intent) and was merely categorizing the RKE's as belonging to the Reversed Kellner genre/design. So, I don't really know..

Best,




From discussions on other websites

Who is Chuck Hawks? Is his word gospel? If so, what makes him an authority?
He is a gun writer (sorta)...and like any other human being he has an opinion.
His website is full of useful facts and some BS...
Nothing makes him an authority...the same could be said of any other gun writer. All they can offer is opinion based on their experience.


Have been reading a number of articles on gun calibers by the renowned Chuck Hawks. Was wondering what other people have to say or think about his writings, etc. He does seem to write from experience.....
Chuck hawks does have a staff working for him though, they probably do a lot of the work
Some of his stuff I have found to be taken from someone else's work. In one instance I believe it was word for word.

So---May not be a first hand source for optics information. Wouldn't even bother chasing this lead.

edz


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: EdZ]
      #5201923 - 05/02/12 01:42 PM

I read one source that claims it was marketed by Edmund in the late 60s thru the 70s.

I read another source that claims it was invented in 1975.

I could find no source that was any better than second hand information, and not a single source documented the origination of the information they posted.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: EdZ]
      #5201933 - 05/02/12 01:48 PM

I will settle this once and for all:

RKE is the abbreviation for the latin:

"Relitsticus Krazinum Extremeus"

which roughly translated =

"capable of generating many posts"


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: pftarch]
      #5201956 - 05/02/12 01:55 PM

Doesn't Brandonis ad nauseum mean the same thing?

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Doug Culbertson]
      #5201973 - 05/02/12 02:05 PM

"Prolix Maximus Brandonus." They should be PMBs.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: EdZ]
      #5201996 - 05/02/12 02:17 PM

Quote:

I read one source that claims it was marketed by Edmund in the late 60s thru the 70s.

I read another source that claims it was invented in 1975.

I could find no source that was any better than second hand information, and not a single source documented the origination of the information they posted.




Looking at two printings of the Astroscan instruction manual, one from 1977 and the other from 1981. '77 calls the included eyepiece a 28mm. compound achromatic whereas the '81 calls it a RKE. Somewhere inbetween those years?


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5202005 - 05/02/12 02:21 PM

Quote:

"Prolix Maximus Brandonus." They should be PMBs.




Ah yes, you are correct. I need to brush up on my Latin!

"Romanes eunt domus"


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RKE = Rank, Kaspereit, Erfle new [Re: EdZ]
      #5202071 - 05/02/12 02:56 PM

Quote:

I read one source that claims it was marketed by Edmund in the late 60s thru the 70s.

I read another source that claims it was invented in 1975.

I could find no source that was any better than second hand information, and not a single source documented the origination of the information they posted.




The US Patent & Trademark Office shows that the trademark of "RKE" was first used in commerce by Edmunds on October 14, 1977 and that they filed for the RKE trademark on June 9, 1978 and on July 17, 1979 it was finally registered.

Webpage Link

See my new thread on what RKE actually stands for - Thread.


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: greju]
      #5202089 - 05/02/12 03:01 PM

Quote:

Looking at two printings of the Astroscan instruction manual, one from 1977 and the other from 1981. '77 calls the included eyepiece a 28mm. compound achromatic whereas the '81 calls it a RKE. Somewhere inbetween those years?




Good guess. I did a trademark search at uspto.gov.

The RKE trademark was applied for on June 9, 1978 and granted on July 17, 1979.

I'm not finding the patent, though. If it was patented before 1975, I'd pretty well have to know the patent number or issue date. Older patents aren't as searchable as post-1975 patents.

By the way, this has been hashed out here before:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3341862/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: rdandrea]
      #5202183 - 05/02/12 03:55 PM

My Surplus Shed 28mm RKE arrived today. What to expect? All I have to say is "Wow"!!!

Edited by oo_void (05/02/12 03:58 PM)


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: rdandrea]
      #5202195 - 05/02/12 04:00 PM

Quote:

By the way, this has been hashed out here before:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3341862/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1




Interesting that at least half a dozen times (if not more) in that previous thread it was declared as FACT what RKE stood for, and yet every single one of them was wrong, even the quote from the Edmund engineer.

edz


Quote:

The Backyard Astronomer's Guide (Dicksinson & Dyer) it says "Now discontinued, Edmund Scientific's RKE design (for David Rank modified Kellner for Edmund) reversed the lens elements from the standard arrangement, giving it a wider field (45 degrees)"




If you read Mike Hosea's research, you would see that it is very likely references to reversed lenses from a Kellner arrangement are most likely incorrect. That would mean not only did D & D (among a host of others) get the description wrong, but they got the naming reference wrong. Poor reflection on the research of that item (in an otherwise very good book). Rather poor reflection on the editors to boot.

edz


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: EdZ]
      #5202253 - 05/02/12 04:30 PM

To me the RKEs are eyepieces which just simply work. They are not spectacular in my opinion on planetary. I prefer Televue plossls and HD/BGO Orthos. But given the RKEs are vintage and sometimes can be had for bargain prices on the used market (well before this thread anyway) they are venerable performers.

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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: astrodon]
      #5202280 - 05/02/12 04:49 PM

astrodon,

Quote:

To me the RKEs are eyepieces which just simply work. They are not spectacular in my opinion on planetary. I prefer Televue plossls and HD/BGO Orthos. But given the RKEs are vintage and sometimes can be had for bargain prices on the used market (well before this thread anyway) they are venerable performers.




I agree on all counts. I keep mine in my deep sky box for trips to a dark site.

I'd like to use them here in the suburbs, but the neighborhood glare kills an eyepiece with such long eye relief. Here I would need to find a little niche with plenty of trees and such to block the all-night lights of the scotophobes.

I've heard a few observers attest that they are great for planets, but I never saw that myself. I'll reach for the BGOs or TV Plossls or Paradigms or UO VTs or Brandons instead.

Mike


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: EdZ]
      #5202923 - 05/02/12 11:19 PM

Quote:

Quote:



Quote:


RKE= Reverse Kellner Eyepiece.

Astronomical Optics:Part 4, Common Telescope Eyepiece Designs by Chuck Hawk, www.quadibloc.com/science/opt 04.htm "Eyepieces", Evolution of the Astronomical Eyepiece.




Thanks. Here's the passage from the above site:

"The Reversed Kellner eyepiece also illustrates the principle of placing additional elements in the field lens instead of the eye lens to correct aberrations. The illustration here attempts to approximate the RKE eyepiece sold by Edmund Scientific."

It would seem that the author did not categorically say that the "RKE" stands for "Reversed Kellner eyepiece" (didn't even capitalize the "e" in eyepiece if that were the intent) and was merely categorizing the RKE's as belonging to the Reversed Kellner genre/design. So, I don't really know..

Best,




From discussions on other websites

Who is Chuck Hawks? Is his word gospel? If so, what makes him an authority?
He is a gun writer (sorta)...and like any other human being he has an opinion.
His website is full of useful facts and some BS...
Nothing makes him an authority...the same could be said of any other gun writer. All they can offer is opinion based on their experience.


Have been reading a number of articles on gun calibers by the renowned Chuck Hawks. Was wondering what other people have to say or think about his writings, etc. He does seem to write from experience.....
Chuck hawks does have a staff working for him though, they probably do a lot of the work
Some of his stuff I have found to be taken from someone else's work. In one instance I believe it was word for word.

So---May not be a first hand source for optics information. Wouldn't even bother chasing this lead.

edz




Thanks Edz for letting us know!

Best,


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ibase
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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: pftarch]
      #5202937 - 05/02/12 11:27 PM

Quote:

I will settle this once and for all:

RKE is the abbreviation for the latin:

"Relitsticus Krazinum Extremeus"

which roughly translated =

"capable of generating many posts"




Quote:

Doesn't Brandonis ad nauseum mean the same thing?



Quote:

"Prolix Maximus Brandonus." They should be PMBs.



Quote:

Ah yes, you are correct. I need to brush up on my Latin!

"Romanes eunt domus"




You guys are hilarious!

Best,


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Re: RKE = Rank, Kaspereit, Erfle new [Re: BillP]
      #5202942 - 05/02/12 11:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I read one source that claims it was marketed by Edmund in the late 60s thru the 70s.

I read another source that claims it was invented in 1975.

I could find no source that was any better than second hand information, and not a single source documented the origination of the information they posted.




The US Patent & Trademark Office shows that the trademark of "RKE" was first used in commerce by Edmunds on October 14, 1977 and that they filed for the RKE trademark on June 9, 1978 and on July 17, 1979 it was finally registered.

Webpage Link

See my new thread on what RKE actually stands for - Thread.




Thanks Bill, YOU'RE THE MAN!

Finally, RKE = Rank, Kaspereit, Erfle, incontestable and fully documented from an unimpeachable source, PERIOD!

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: rdandrea]
      #5203044 - 05/03/12 01:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Looking at two printings of the Astroscan instruction manual, one from 1977 and the other from 1981. '77 calls the included eyepiece a 28mm. compound achromatic whereas the '81 calls it a RKE. Somewhere inbetween those years?




Good guess. I did a trademark search at uspto.gov.

The RKE trademark was applied for on June 9, 1978 and granted on July 17, 1979.

I'm not finding the patent, though. If it was patented before 1975, I'd pretty well have to know the patent number or issue date. Older patents aren't as searchable as post-1975 patents.

By the way, this has been hashed out here before:

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3341862/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1/vc/1




The thread referred to above must have had a lot to do with why people believed or thought that RKE stood for "Rank Kellner Eyepiece" which has now been debunked with finality by BillP's findings.

Best,


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Re: RKE 28mm on the way! What to expect vs. 27-36 new [Re: oo_void]