Dave Ittner
sage
Reged: 05/29/12
Loc: SF Bay Area, California
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ES82 Argon Purged?
#5453665 - 10/03/12 02:44 PM
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I thought all of the 82deg series of Explore Scientific eyepieces where Nitrogen purged?
Just received my 4.7mm eyepiece (super cool looking box by the way, I will have to post a picture) and ...
It says
4.7 and just below that it says
"82d SERIES FULLY MULTI-COATED"
and down below that it says
"ARGON-PURGED WATERPROOF"
with the little Ar sticker
Hmmm, what's up with this?
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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
Reged: 06/24/03
Loc: Los Angeles
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Dave Ittner]
#5453680 - 10/03/12 02:56 PM
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Since rubber seals seem to last longer with Argon inside, I believe they are in the process of converting all N2 purged eyepieces to Argon.
At least, that's what I heard.
That makes a lot of sense from the standpoint of manufacturing costs.
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csrlice12
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/22/12
Loc: Denver, CO
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Starman1]
#5453794 - 10/03/12 04:08 PM
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I know my 68* are Argon purged. Probably like Don says, they're probably converting and you got the latest model (maybe all of us with backorders will). I did get a call from one vendor--my ES82 14mm is in the mail.
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Dave Ittner
sage
Reged: 05/29/12
Loc: SF Bay Area, California
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Starman1]
#5453804 - 10/03/12 04:18 PM
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Don, I put a call into Manish and he stated the same.
I like the idea of the Argon version.
By the way here are 2 pictures of the new box:
http://imageshack.us/g/1/9792788/
They were 2meg each and so couldn't upload them here.
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Dave Ittner
sage
Reged: 05/29/12
Loc: SF Bay Area, California
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Dave Ittner]
#5453805 - 10/03/12 04:20 PM
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I forgot to mention Manish did mention that the 4.7, 6.7, and 8.8 FLs were the only ones to arrive in the new boxes.
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Chucky
sage
Reged: 04/16/10
Loc: Dublin, Ohio
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Dave Ittner]
#5453847 - 10/03/12 04:49 PM
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Those new boxes do, in fact, look very nice I must say.
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Dave Ittner
sage
Reged: 05/29/12
Loc: SF Bay Area, California
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Chucky]
#5453851 - 10/03/12 04:51 PM
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The cover folds over and snaps shut as there is a set of magnets on each corner.
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mfromb
super member
Reged: 12/13/12
Loc: Boston, MA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Dave Ittner]
#5593725 - 12/29/12 02:11 AM
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Stumbled onto this thread after receiving a new ES82 11mm EP today.
The box clearly says N2, but the EP says Argon, with the symbol Ar on it.
I triple checked the EP, wondering if it was a 68 degree series, the wrong size, etc. I am going to make sure the serial number matches the box and check with ES to be sure this is legit, but my inclination is to think they are switching processes in manufacturing, moving to Argon for their 82 series... At least I hope that is the case.
In the meantime, I took it out for what I thought would be a quick spin this evening. 2 hours later.... 
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John Kuraoka
sage
Reged: 12/12/12
Loc: Sunny San Diego, CA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: mfromb]
#5594230 - 12/29/12 11:48 AM
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I'll throw this into the mix.
I just received my ES 82° 11mm. The box (new style, apparently, with the three-flap opening and magnetic closure) sticker says N2. The eyepiece printing says "Nitrogen Purged Waterproof."
But, inset into a circular space on the eyepiece it has a round, green sticker marked "Ar."
So it's possible I have an early Argon-purged version, before ES updated the printing on the eyepiece?
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mfromb
super member
Reged: 12/13/12
Loc: Boston, MA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: John Kuraoka]
#5594416 - 12/29/12 01:25 PM
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That's strange... it's like the missing link in the evolution of the ES82 series. First all N2? Then your N2 Box, Nitrogen lettering with Ar sticker on EP. And my N2 box, with Argon lettering and Ar sticker on EP. Sooner or later, I guess we'll see the completed transition to Argon on box, EP lettering, and sticker?
I won't entirely fault ES sales/marketing on this 'messy' evolution. No doubt the money saved by NOT transitioning from old to new, and simply disposing of the old at a loss, would otherwise have found its way into the consumer pricing. Certainly into lower margins for themselves, at the least.
It would be nice, however, if a paper insert explaining the transition were added... or at least something featured prominently on their website? That latter bit doesn't cost much, at all. Last check, they were still touting the ES82 Nitrogen purge product line. No mention of a transition to Ar from N2. They must realize this is a point of confusion for consumers.
If it keeps the cost down, they can remove all lettering (except the mm designation), put it in a plain brown box with the gas used for purging written on it with a sharpie. If the net result is still the same, I'd be satisfied. However, I will admit that the box and the EP's are handsome as is. At some point, I guess all the labeling will be realigned.
In the meantime, perhaps some 'collector's items' are being made, with the N2 lettered, Ar purged rares? ;-)
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Michael Rapp
Carpal Tunnel
Reged: 04/27/04
Loc: Dickinson, TX
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: mfromb]
#5594958 - 12/29/12 07:24 PM
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My experience is the same as John's. My new ES 82 11 mm has the N2 packaging, but the Argon label.
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chrisking0997
journeyman
Reged: 05/08/12
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Michael Rapp]
#5595371 - 12/30/12 12:09 AM
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same here...thought it was a problem until the experts at boards like CN set me straight. I guess maybe they just had some left over pre-printed barrels to use up.
either way, its a great eyepiece. Im in heaven, coming from the plain jane 10mm Orion plossel that I was using.
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GpB311
sage
Reged: 05/29/12
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: chrisking0997]
#5597959 - 12/31/12 01:20 PM
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I received my ES82 11mm on Friday and it says Nitrogen purged and has the correct sticker for it.
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Mike4242
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/02/11
Loc: Memphis, TN
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: GpB311]
#5598128 - 12/31/12 02:59 PM
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I have an 18mm and an 11mm scheduled to arrive tomorrow -- ordered from the ES online store. It'll be interesting to see if they are the same as mentioned above. I also have the 24mm and 6.7mm nitrogen purged EPs which I love.
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Ain Soph Aur
sage
Reged: 08/11/11
Loc: Tennessee
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Starman1]
#5598721 - 12/31/12 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Since rubber seals seem to last longer with Argon inside, I believe they are in the process of converting all N2 purged eyepieces to Argon.
At least, that's what I heard.
That makes a lot of sense from the standpoint of manufacturing costs.
Also from the 5 year extended warranty standpoint if the rubber seals vs Nitrogen don't stand up to the 5 year test of time. 
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stevew
Now I've done it
Reged: 03/03/06
Loc: British Columbia Canada
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Starman1]
#5599127 - 01/01/13 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Since rubber seals seem to last longer with Argon inside, I believe they are in the process of converting all N2 purged eyepieces to Argon.
Oh great! 
I bought my nitrogen purged versions last year.
Now I have to upgrade?
Steve
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mfromb
super member
Reged: 12/13/12
Loc: Boston, MA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: stevew]
#5599556 - 01/01/13 12:49 PM
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Am I wrong in assuming we will see questions in the classifieds, if/when someone is selling one of these ES EP's? "Is this the N2 or Ar purged 'version'?" or "Does the lettering match the purge labeling?"
I am new, here... but as a long time member at DPreview.com, which attracts a high percentage of 'gear heads', things like this would have a way of taking on a life of its own and before you know it, a myth would be born.
I'm not disrepecting DPR, its members, or gear-heads. I am 'one of them' so I feel entitled to throw rocks in my own house. It's just an observation based on my experiences. =:-O
I'm sure CN is host to a more rational crowd, given to a greater degree of objectivity. ;-)
...now, I'm off to google "ES N2 vs Ar comparisons", hoping to find someone that concludes that Ar offers superior 'something'. :-)
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Dave Ittner
sage
Reged: 05/29/12
Loc: SF Bay Area, California
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: mfromb]
#5599590 - 01/01/13 01:07 PM
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As far as I know, ES is in the process of converting from using N2 to Ar and did so with the first 3 focal lengths (4.7, 6.7, and 8.8)
It is also my understanding that the newer style boxes (at that time) were labeled N2.
All that really matters (if I can say that as I don't think the difference between N2 and Ar are of any major significance) is what label is on the eyepiece.
If the label says it's Ar then it's Ar purged.
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Achernar
Postmaster
Reged: 02/25/06
Loc: Mobile, Alabama, USA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: stevew]
#5599704 - 01/01/13 02:14 PM
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All of mine are N2 purged too, but I wouldn't worry about it. Nitrogen preserves tires just fine, it will also certainly be friendly to the glass, metal and rubber seals that make up ES eyepieces. It has worked fine for fog proofing rifle scopes, spotting scopes and waterproof binoculars too.
Taras
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sopticals
sage
Reged: 03/28/10
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Achernar]
#5600298 - 01/01/13 08:40 PM
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Quote:
All of mine are N2 purged too, but I wouldn't worry about it. Nitrogen preserves tires just fine, it will also certainly be friendly to the glass, metal and rubber seals that make up ES eyepieces. It has worked fine for fog proofing rifle scopes, spotting scopes and waterproof binoculars too.
Taras
+1 to that.
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Mike4242
professor emeritus
Reged: 11/02/11
Loc: Memphis, TN
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: sopticals]
#5601723 - 01/02/13 06:39 PM
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Got my 11mm and 18mm 82 EPs today. The 11mm came in the new style box while the 18mm came in the older style dark gray box. Both boxes say nitrogen purged. The 18mm has an N2 sticker on it, but the 11mm has an Ar sticker on it.
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frito
sage
Reged: 10/05/12
Loc: Fremont, CA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: sopticals]
#5604071 - 01/04/13 04:12 AM
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i should be receiving my 11mm ES 82 saturday so i will of course report my findings here once i do.
all this being said here though, i'll throw in my knowledge from the glass industry i work in on gas filled glass units (what this bassically is)
nitrogen is a major component of our normal air on the planet.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth
saying something is N2 purged without stating percentages is as good as telling me its filled with plain old AIR
Argon on the other hand is known to be a good insulating gas. when an insulated window is filled with 90/10 (Ar/air) mix there a measurable insulating factor made on a sealed glass unit. there are other gasses that perform even better but they are more rare, more expensive and when you factor in that gasses will almost always escape over time and eventually the end result is it does not matter IMO and if anything Ar filled is going to benefit more than N2 anyways.
sorry i just see it sort of a marketing ploy i suppose, not knocking ES by any means though their eyepieces are great and i own one already.
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csrlice12
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/22/12
Loc: Denver, CO
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: mfromb]
#5605070 - 01/04/13 03:52 PM
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"I'm sure CN is host to a more rational crowd, given to a greater degree of objectivity. ;-)"
  
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csrlice12
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/22/12
Loc: Denver, CO
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: csrlice12]
#5605080 - 01/04/13 03:56 PM
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+1 benefit of the N2 model, in a charged field, it doesn't glow brightly like the Ar Model does.......
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frito
sage
Reged: 10/05/12
Loc: Fremont, CA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: csrlice12]
#5606837 - 01/05/13 03:33 PM
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just got my 11mm. same as others report, label on the box says nitrogen purged, eyepiece itself says argon and has an Ar sticker on it.
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mdalton
member
Reged: 10/05/12
Loc: Farmington, Mo
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: frito]
#5607283 - 01/05/13 08:56 PM
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I just received my new 11mm on Thursday. The box is the new style. On the label on the box says N2, but the label on the eyepiece itself says Ar. Just like frito says.
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GpB311
sage
Reged: 05/29/12
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: mdalton]
#5607305 - 01/05/13 09:07 PM
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I bought my from OPT, so maybe thats why my 11mm is still the N2 purged style. I dont mind either way as far as that goes really though.
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frito
sage
Reged: 10/05/12
Loc: Fremont, CA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: GpB311]
#5607463 - 01/05/13 10:57 PM
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Quote:
I bought my from OPT, so maybe thats why my 11mm is still the N2 purged style. I dont mind either way as far as that goes really though.
if they shipped it from their own stock thats probably why. i bought my 11mm from telescopes.com (hayneedle) and hayneedle had it shipped from ES in AR direct to me.
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Astro Sky
Vendor (Astro Sky)
Reged: 05/06/06
Loc: Iowa, Louisiana, USA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: frito]
#5607652 - 01/06/13 01:04 AM
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Ordered from Astronomics on ES82* 4.7-6.7 and 11mm ,all back order . Why Astronomics not call and have ES factory shipping to customers ?
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csa/montana
Den Mama
Reged: 05/14/05
Loc: montana
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Astro Sky]
#5608035 - 01/06/13 10:40 AM
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Why Astronomics not call and have ES factory shipping to customers
I would much rather they come from Astronomics, rather than the ES factory. If you have a problem with one, would you rather ship it back to the factory and wait, or have Astronomics handle it for you?
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PeterWar
super member
Reged: 08/25/11
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: csa/montana]
#5608084 - 01/06/13 11:06 AM
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Funny, I bought my Explore Scientific 11mm 82º last month in Madrid, the eyepiece itself reads Nitrogen-Purged in the top part but has the Argon (AR) green sticky.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Who can guess what's inside this particular eyepiece?
Edited by PeterWar (01/06/13 11:07 AM)
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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
Reged: 02/28/06
Loc: Petaluma, CA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: frito]
#5608603 - 01/06/13 03:01 PM
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Of course, having insulative properties between groups in an eyepiece might actually be a bad thing...It would be disastrous in an objective group. 
- Jim
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mfromb
super member
Reged: 12/13/12
Loc: Boston, MA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Starman1]
#5610698 - 01/07/13 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Since rubber seals seem to last longer with Argon inside, I believe they are in the process of converting all N2 purged eyepieces to Argon.
At least, that's what I heard.
I finally heard back from Explore Scientific on this issue. When I received my 'Nitrogen' box (box indicated nitrogen purged ES82 series), with an Argon lettered (says Argon purged) with Argon symbol on sticker (Ar), I inquired from ES what was up with that. In part, because I had some initial concern about a possible knock-off/copy, but also because it was (to me, as a consumer) confusing with no insert to explain the reason for mismatch box to eyepiece, or an ongoing conversion taking place and nothing on their website to announce a change was in process.
So, here is the official response I received from a representative at ES today:
"Although we never had any issues with the Nitrogen, at some customers request (who are familiar with inert gases) we decided to make the switch to Argon. The Argon molecule is a larger molecule which over time may give us less issues than Nitrogen. However, as I stated, we haven’t had any issues with the Nitrogen. We just need to watch and label our boxes better as we QC them."
This is as some have speculated, and (to me) it made some fiscal sense why the mismatched boxes and eyepiece lettering/stamping (costs money to throw out surplus boxes and eyepiece barrels, etc., so perhaps they opted to use what they had in supply). My only real 'gripe', if it could be considered such, is that either a paper insert to explain the ongoing program to convert and/OR something prominently featured on their website, which (at the time) still marketed the ES82 'Nitrogen' purged line of EP's... while I held in my hand one that said Argon.
I won't say 'mystery solved', as many solved this thru speculation or other sources of information. For me, it's nice to finally see something of an official word from ES on the matter.
To those that recieved some of the conflicting labeled EP's, enjoy the Nitrogen lettered, Ar stamped EP's while they last! In the future, perhaps it could be resold as 'Rare Edition ES82 Nitrogen/Ar eyepiece'. Purged twice, for good measure.
mark
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Dave Ittner
sage
Reged: 05/29/12
Loc: SF Bay Area, California
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: mfromb]
#5610733 - 01/07/13 06:59 PM
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Well the one thing ES is good at is "purging" my wallet of greenbacks.
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GpB311
sage
Reged: 05/29/12
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: mfromb]
#5610743 - 01/07/13 07:03 PM
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Im not a chemistry major, but I would have thought the size of the two triple bonded nitrogen atoms would be bigger than the single argon atoms.
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mfromb
super member
Reged: 12/13/12
Loc: Boston, MA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Dave Ittner]
#5610825 - 01/07/13 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Well the one thing ES is good at is "purging" my wallet of greenbacks.
I wish I could provide them with more opportunity to do so to MY wallet. My wife and 4 daughters do a right thorough job of this already. 
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PeterWar
super member
Reged: 08/25/11
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: mfromb]
#5612323 - 01/08/13 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
To those that recieved some of the conflicting labeled EP's, enjoy the Nitrogen lettered, Ar stamped EP's while they last! In the future, perhaps it could be resold as 'Rare Edition ES82 Nitrogen/Ar eyepiece'. Purged twice, for good measure.
mark
I plan to do so!
Would be nice to know, however what's inside, Argon or Nitrogen.
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Scanning4Comets
Markus
Reged: 12/26/04
Loc: Deep Space!
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: PeterWar]
#5612356 - 01/08/13 05:20 PM Attachment (6 downloads)
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I just got a 34mm ES yesterday and it is Argon Purged! 
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taylornate
member
Reged: 01/04/13
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Scanning4Comets]
#5616888 - 01/11/13 09:14 AM
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My new 11mm is Argon purged.
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mak17
professor emeritus
Reged: 02/08/11
Loc: Florida
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: taylornate]
#5856590 - 05/12/13 11:34 PM
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My 11 is argon purged.
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ibase
Vendor Affilliate
Reged: 03/20/08
Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: mfromb]
#5856664 - 05/13/13 12:26 AM
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Quote:
That's strange... it's like the missing link in the evolution of the ES82 series. First all N2? Then your N2 Box, Nitrogen lettering with Ar sticker on EP. And my N2 box, with Argon lettering and Ar sticker on EP.
Speaking of the evolution of the ES82 series, before all this Nitrogen/Aragon business, there was the non-waterproof ES82:
82ES14mm mushroom type; 100ES14mm Nitrogen
Quote:
It would be nice, however, if a paper insert explaining the transition were added... or at least something featured prominently on their website?
Including a note in the box would be an official admission of a snafu, doesn't look good marketing-wise, so they chose to answer inquires on the Aragon/Nitrogen matter individually. Just speculating..
Best,
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DG Aucoin
member
Reged: 03/20/13
Loc: Waltham, MA
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: sopticals]
#5863583 - 05/16/13 12:24 AM
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My 11mm ES 82* and 8.8mm ES 82* are both N2 purged and my 6.7mm ES 82* and 4.7mm ES 82* are both Ar purged. Hope they last through and past their 5 year warranties.
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Billytk
sage
Reged: 04/22/12
Loc: Orlando, Fl.
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: DG Aucoin]
#5865331 - 05/16/13 05:45 PM
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I recieved 3 ES82* eyepieces from Astronomics about 3 months ago and they came as follows:
8.8mm-N2
6.7mm-AR
4.7mm-N2
All lettering and stickers match.
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csrlice12
Post Laureate
Reged: 05/22/12
Loc: Denver, CO
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: Scanning4Comets]
#5865411 - 05/16/13 06:13 PM
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Same here, they must still have a stock of the older boxes though.
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JoeM101
scholastic sledgehammer
Reged: 04/09/12
Loc: 45.66086, -73.54702
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: csrlice12]
#5869300 - 05/18/13 01:14 PM
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Argon is a larger molecule and therefore tends to leak out less.. as for the miss-labeled boxes/ep's i went through this with ES and with my local Astroshop, i had purchased an 11mm Ar but got got an EP with the writing on the EP saying Nitrogen purged with an Ar sticker in the recess... spoke to ES, they confirmed they switched to Argon but still had bodies left over with the Nitrogen etching.. they were willing to replace, and i accepted. Not really a collectible since there are quite a few that were shipped this way.. all new ones are properly labelled Argon
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isawit
member
Reged: 01/22/13
Loc: Lake Phelps, North Carolina
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Re: ES82 Argon Purged?
[Re: JoeM101]
#5870872 - 05/19/13 08:22 AM
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I purchased a 4.7 mm 82* several months ago. It came with the neat looking box and had AR on the box label. The eyepiece however had the N2 sticker on it. I have the 4.7, 8.8, 18, and 24mm 82* eyepieces and all have the N2 stickers.
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