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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Sean Cunneen
Let Me Think
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Reged: 08/01/07

Loc: Blue Island Illinois
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5566679 - 12/11/12 10:27 PM

Careful! That is one slippery slope...

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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Sean Cunneen]
      #5566692 - 12/11/12 10:36 PM

Yes. Festina lente. Make haste slowly. As I said before, I think the BGO's and Brandons compliment each other.

Brandons are really great for the Moon, Saturn and double stars, and to see more contrasty structure in nebulae without having to slip on a DSO filter.

But one great feature of the BGO's is that their light transmission is right up there with the Delos. If I have trouble bagging some really faint fuzzies with my Baader Zoom or wide fields, I'll give it a try with the BGO's. I don't have any Delos ... yet.


Mike


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Ain Soph Aur
professor emeritus
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Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: West Tennessee
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5566744 - 12/11/12 11:12 PM

I just spent the past 45 minutes under a dark sky apparel hooded vest viewing M42 and M37 and swapping the 18mm BGO and 16mm Brandon, both at native f/l and barlowed. The Brandon won both contests handily. M42 with bit more nebulousity and color presence against a slightly darker background. M37 provided just a bit better view of the stars, almost sugary against the slighty darker background yet again. But I could not see a single star in one EP that I cold not see in the other.

I have the 4" f/13 Carton capped and ready as I am warming up and then getting a bit of sleep so I can be out at 5 AM for Saturn as it clear a house, then perhaps Venus and maybe even Mercury a little later. It rises over a house right around sunrise. Hopefully I will get a chance to do a white light Solar comparison soon.

So I wonder how much a full mint set of BGO with all boxes would go for as a set?


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Rick Woods
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Reged: 01/27/05

Loc: Inner Solar System
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5566782 - 12/11/12 11:34 PM

I sense a great movement in The Force...

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ibase
Vendor Affiliate
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Reged: 03/20/08

Loc: Manila, Philippines 121*E 14*N
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5566820 - 12/11/12 11:56 PM

Quote:

<snip>..18mm BGO and 16mm Brandon, <snip> ..slighty darker background yet again. But I could not see a single star in one EP that I cold not see in the other.





Higher magnification of 16mm vs 18mm could account for the "slightly darker background."

Best,


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Ain Soph Aur
professor emeritus
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Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: West Tennessee
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: ibase]
      #5566970 - 12/12/12 04:37 AM

Agreed and I am taking that into consideration, even at the closer 8mm v 9mm when they are barlowed, Unfortunately, at 16mm the 18mm BGO is about best I can do to compare ortho vs ortho-esque.

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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: ibase]
      #5567047 - 12/12/12 06:51 AM

Hernando,

Quote:

Quote:

<snip>..18mm BGO and 16mm Brandon, <snip> ..slighty darker background yet again. But I could not see a single star in one EP that I cold not see in the other.





Higher magnification of 16mm vs 18mm could account for the "slightly darker background."





The higher magnification might also account for the inability to see more stars in the 18mm BGO. The difference in magnification could be just enough to level the playing field.

Mike


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5567056 - 12/12/12 07:01 AM

Here are light transmission results for BGO's and Delos from another thread:

Quote:

Baader 18 mm Ortho I 96,3
Baader 18 mm Ortho II 97.9
Baader 9 mm Ortho 95,7
Baader 7 mm Ortho 95.8




Quote:

12mm Delos........96% @ 532nm.
27mm Pan..........96.4% @ 532nm.



Eyepiece Transmission

Has anyone measured the transmission for Brandons? Also, are there different figures for the old-style bluish coatings vs the newer amber coatings?

Mike


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5567057 - 12/12/12 07:04 AM

Brandon,

Quote:

I just spent the past 45 minutes under a dark sky apparel hooded vest viewing M42 and M37 and swapping the 18mm BGO and 16mm Brandon, both at native f/l and barlowed. The Brandon won both contests handily. M42 with bit more nebulousity and color presence against a slightly darker background. M37 provided just a bit better view of the stars, almost sugary against the slighty darker background yet again. But I could not see a single star in one EP that I cold not see in the other.




Is this a newer Brandon with amber coatings, or an older one with bluish coatings? The amber coatings are supposed to have higher transmission. Also, as others have mentioned, the difference in magnfication could produce a darker background in the Brandon, as well as level the playing field for the number of stars visible.

The fact that the Brandon displays M42 with somewhat more nebulosity and "color presence" seems to indicate - to me, anyway - that the Brandon has a bit less light transmission than the BGO.

Just throwing some ideas out there ...

Mike


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Ain Soph Aur
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: West Tennessee
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5567225 - 12/12/12 09:40 AM

Hi Mike. I'll check the coatings when I get home to verify, but I ordered this from Astronomics this month so I suspect it is the newer model.

I got out this morning to a literally iced up scope. Removed the dew shield and did the same comparisons that I did last evening, this time on Saturn. After 30 minutes or so of comparison (18mm BGO vs 16mm Brandon, native f/l and barlowed), I could not declare a winner between the BGO or Brandon. Both showed identical banding, polar darkening and ring details.

Of course, I was still wiping the sleepy bugs out of my eyes.

Tonight the C8 gets mounted on the CGEM DX and more comparisons, both at f/10 and f/6.3. It looks like we are in store for some good conditions here in W TN.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: bcuddihee]
      #5567359 - 12/12/12 11:16 AM

If you go 24mm Panoptic, you obviate both the 32mm Brandon and 24mm Brandon.

I would try the 24mm Panoptics and compare them to the 24mm Brandons. If the Panoptics win, sell off the Brandons. If the Brandons win, sell off the Panoptics and get the 32mm Brandons.

The Brandons will win, of course, but there's no substitute for seeing for yourself.

- Jim


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Ain Soph Aur
professor emeritus
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Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: West Tennessee
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5568251 - 12/12/12 08:42 PM

Quote:

Is this a newer Brandon with amber coatings, or an older one with bluish coatings?




Amber coatings.

I've been out with both the C8 and the 2.4" f/20 tonight, and what a nice night we are having here in West TN. I am sold on the Brandon. The BGO's are close, but the Brandon has the edge on everything I have looked at except Jupiter, and on that one the Baader M&SG evens the score and perhaps bests it a bit. Anyways, like many, I find the TV plossl a bit better on Jupiter even without requiring a M&SG.

I'm definitely going to start working on a full set of Brandons for my main narrow-field set, but I still haven't decided if I am going to sell the BGO set to help fund this project. Too bad the Brandons and BGOs are not even remotely parfocal (~ 1/2" difference), between the two sets one could cover a wide range of f/l without barlowing..

Jim, on page one you mentioned a 6mm Brandon. Were those available in the same format as the current standard black production models with the eye-cup? I assume this one is only available on the second-hand market as it is not listed on the Vernonscope web site.


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jrbarnett
Eyepiece Hooligan
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Reged: 02/28/06

Loc: Petaluma, CA
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5568437 - 12/12/12 11:10 PM

You can get the 6mm, new, from Vernonscope. Give Don a call or send an e-mail.

- Jim

Edited by jrbarnett (12/12/12 11:16 PM)


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Ain Soph Aur
professor emeritus
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Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: West Tennessee
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: jrbarnett]
      #5568443 - 12/12/12 11:14 PM

Awesome, thanks Jim!

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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5568728 - 12/13/12 06:51 AM

I picked up a Brandon 6mm used a couple years ago. It has the amber coatings. Very nice eyepiece for planets, Moon, double stars. Mine has a shallow eyecup on it. I can't recall now if it came with the eyecup or I put one on later. In any case, to my eye, it's more comfortable than I thought it would be, judging by comments I'd read.

I like low-eye-relief flat-tops better with shallow eyecups installed. I put them on all my little flat-tops.

Mike


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dscarpa
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Reged: 03/15/08

Loc: San Diego Ca.
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5568982 - 12/13/12 10:41 AM

I was thinking about getting a Brandon before the new year price increase but just can't bring myself to pull the trigger. A hair better than a BGO or Kasai HC on axis for $100 more just doesn't do it for me. What I like about orthos is the entire FOV is sharp and well corrected. I've got a order in at OPT for a 18 BCO and may get a 12 Kasai HC. David

Edited by dscarpa (12/13/12 10:54 AM)


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Sarkikos
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: dscarpa]
      #5569106 - 12/13/12 11:48 AM

I couldn't swear that Brandons are any sharper than BGO's on-axis, at least not for the planets. Different, complimentary, yes. Sharper? I don't think so.

Many double star enthusiasts prefer Brandons. Maybe if I were more enthusiastic about double stars I'd prefer Brandons, too. But I'm not and so I don't.

I've never bought a new Brandon. All of mine are used. But some of my BGO's were bought used, others new. IMO, when the BGO's were available new, they were a much better value for the money than Brandons. Just my two cents.

Mike


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dscarpa
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Reged: 03/15/08

Loc: San Diego Ca.
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5569179 - 12/13/12 12:35 PM

I was talking to Chris at OPT and he said the Kasai HCs-same as BGOs-contrary to some post here were going to be available though the 18 and 6 probably weren't coming till spring. He also said the Kasai HCs sold out in Japan very quickly which is good news for ortho fans. David

Edited by dscarpa (12/13/12 12:36 PM)


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Ain Soph Aur
professor emeritus
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Reged: 08/11/11

Loc: West Tennessee
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Sarkikos]
      #5569317 - 12/13/12 01:52 PM

Quote:

I couldn't swear that Brandons are any sharper than BGO's on-axis, at least not for the planets. Different, complimentary, yes. Sharper? I don't think so.

Many double star enthusiasts prefer Brandons. Maybe if I were more enthusiastic about double stars I'd prefer Brandons, too. But I'm not and so I don't.




Hi Mike. In my limited experience, the Brandon and BGO are equally sharp on axis, and also off axis at least on a f/10 8" SCT, f/13 4" and a f/20 2.4" refractors. I am hoping to see if I can notice any off-axis difference this evening with the 8" SCT at f/6.3 and eventually give them a comparison in the 6" f/4.8 Comet Hunter.

Where I am seeing the difference is in contrast. Not sure it is an extra ~100$ worth of contrast, but nevertheless it is there, at least in my eyes and equipment. Or maybe i just fell victim to Brandon fever.


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Sarkikos
Postmaster
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Reged: 12/18/07

Loc: Suburban Maryland, USA
Re: My name is Brandon... new [Re: Ain Soph Aur]
      #5569896 - 12/13/12 08:29 PM

I tend to think that the perceived enhancement in contrast for Brandons over BGO's is due to a difference in coatings. The BGO's are fully multi-coated - with "Phantom Coatings", no less - while the Brandons are merely fully coated. Vernonscope claims the simpler coatings on the Brandons are designed to reduce narrow angle scatter, thereby enhancing visibility of low contrast detail on planets. This may or may not be the case. I couldn't swear to it by my own experience.

What I think the simpler coatings on Brandons do is increase perceived contrast in DSO, for instance, allowing more structure to be seen in M42. But the same thing could be accomplished by screwing a DSO filter onto a fully multi-coated eyepiece. Personally, I'd rather use the filter. (My favorite technique is to load up a filter wheel with DSO filters and switch among them to get the best effect for each specific nebula.)

Mike


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