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Equipment Discussions >> Eyepieces

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Starman1
Vendor (EyepiecesEtc.com)
*****

Reged: 06/24/03

Loc: Los Angeles
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: ThreeD]
      #5518001 - 11/13/12 01:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:


To avoid misinterpretation: A 25-100 from TV may be better than a 25-100 from ES, and a 30-100 from TV may be better than a 30-100 from ES.
But I am 100% sure that the 9-120, 25-100 and 30-100 from ES are much better than the non-existent counterparts from TV.


Where can I buy one of these 25-100s? Oh, that's right, it doesn't exist as a product for sale from ES either... (I'm not interested in the others but don't think I could get my hands on them right now either.)

When/if they do become available, I hope they are great and sell well but did it ever dawn on you that TV stopped where they did because they wouldn't want to put their name on EPs that would compromise aspects which they felt didn't meet their standards? Again, if ES puls them off and they are great EPs that's awesome but to assume that because EP designs are produced that they will be great EPs is a bit of stretch. If it turns out that they are less than great would that be a signal that TV is technologically superior because they know the real limitations?

Note, I'm not taking sides here or suggesting anything other than one should wait and see rather than get tied up in the hype.



I've been told by ES that the 25x100s are coming near the end of this month.


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rockethead26
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/21/09

Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: ThreeD]
      #5518158 - 11/13/12 03:33 PM

Quote:

Where can I buy one of these 25-100s? Oh, that's right, it doesn't exist as a product for sale from ES either... (I'm not interested in the others but don't think I could get my hands on them right now either.)

When/if they do become available, I hope they are great and sell well but did it ever dawn on you that TV stopped where they did because they wouldn't want to put their name on EPs that would compromise aspects which they felt didn't meet their standards? Again, if ES puls them off and they are great EPs that's awesome but to assume that because EP designs are produced that they will be great EPs is a bit of stretch. If it turns out that they are less than great would that be a signal that TV is technologically superior because they know the real limitations?

Note, I'm not taking sides here or suggesting anything other than one should wait and see rather than get tied up in the hype.




Sounds like the same words being thrown around when ES announced their 9mm 120°. It couldn't/wouldn't be any good because TV didn't do it first.

First reports have proven otherwise. Now we just have to see if ES can be as successful with the 25mm 100° design. I have a feeling that they will.


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pbsastro
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/21/07

Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: ThreeD]
      #5518364 - 11/13/12 05:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:


To avoid misinterpretation: A 25-100 from TV may be better than a 25-100 from ES, and a 30-100 from TV may be better than a 30-100 from ES.
But I am 100% sure that the 9-120, 25-100 and 30-100 from ES are much better than the non-existent counterparts from TV.


Where can I buy one of these 25-100s? Oh, that's right, it doesn't exist as a product for sale from ES either... (I'm not interested in the others but don't think I could get my hands on them right now either.)

When/if they do become available, I hope they are great and sell well but did it ever dawn on you that TV stopped where they did because they wouldn't want to put their name on EPs that would compromise aspects which they felt didn't meet their standards? Again, if ES puls them off and they are great EPs that's awesome but to assume that because EP designs are produced that they will be great EPs is a bit of stretch. If it turns out that they are less than great would that be a signal that TV is technologically superior because they know the real limitations?

Note, I'm not taking sides here or suggesting anything other than one should wait and see rather than get tied up in the hype.




You are obviously ignoring the 9-120 is available and got very favorable opinions from people whose opinion I trust very much.
The 25-100 is two weeks from availability.
Unfortunately these eyepieces were not announced by TV...

BTW, I have 3 Ethos, 2 Naglers and none ES eyepieces. I love all my TV eyepieces. So not real a ES fanboy.

Everyone knows there are 3 issues with a 30-100 eyepiece: size, weight and it will not work well with many telescopes (due to scope CA and scope FC). TV decided they did not not want to make such eyepiece. I want such eyepiece. ES is making such eyepiece. My deep thanks to ES.
The argument of optical compromise is just a false excuse. It will be a dream eyepiece in the right scopes.

Edited by pbsastro (11/13/12 06:23 PM)


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Dave Ittner
sage
*****

Reged: 05/29/12

Loc: SF Bay Area, California
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: pbsastro]
      #5518468 - 11/13/12 06:37 PM

Looks like a perfect eyepiece for .... Cyclops
http://oldmanfoltz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/cyclops2.jpg


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Scott99
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/10/07

Loc: New England
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: Arizona-Ken]
      #5518546 - 11/13/12 07:15 PM

This is a great idea! The eyepiece looks awesome. I'm not sure how much it's going to offer around f/8. At f/8 you can use a 40mm eyepiece to get the larger field and still have a manageable exit pupil. this would offer a 2.5 degree field in my refractor vs. 2.33 with Pentax XW40mm.

Of course the XW is not the same as the 100 degree ES field. This 30/100 will be perfect for f/5 super-scopes, or anyone who can't give up their ultimate 100 degree field.

regarding needing a 3-inch diagonal to use a 40mm Pentax or TV eyepiece - the eyepiece still has a 2-inch wide barrel, I would not expect a different result.


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ThreeD
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 12/23/08

Loc: Sacramento suburbs
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: pbsastro]
      #5518563 - 11/13/12 07:23 PM

Whoa! Where did I say that the ES EPs wouldn't be any good? Two people who've taken exception to what I've said even quoted me and NO WHERE do I say in my post that they won't be good. I simply stated that I'd wait to see and I even stated that if they turn out great then that's awesome.

The person to whom I was responding seemed to assume that they would be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Come on, I don't even assume EPs with green letters will be good. (I've read of people who were a little disappointed with some aspect of their Delos, for example. Blackout problems if I recall correctly.) I'm a native Californian but I'll borrow something from Missouri -- show me. (And that applies regardless of the maker.)

I made a point of stating that the only one of the bunch that might interest me is the 25-100 so I'm not ignoring the 9-120. I'm pretty happy with my Naglers and BGOs and although I have no problem seeing to the edge of the 100s I've looked through, I'm in no rush to part with that much cash. The only reason the 25-100 might be interesting is if it could replace my 31T5 as it would have a more favorable exit pupil. I read enough dob owners who said they shouldn't have sold their 31T5 when bought their E21 that I opted for the 31 - that and the E21 didn't really fit the budget. A 25-100 should have pretty much the same TFOV as 31T5 so I'd need to look at it. I have no use for the 30-100 but more power to them for making it and to those who can make use of it.


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MrGrytt
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 07/28/05

Loc: Upstate New York
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: pbsastro]
      #5518651 - 11/13/12 08:34 PM

Quote:


BTW, I have 3 Ethos, 2 Naglers and none ES eyepieces. I love all my TV eyepieces. So not real a ES fanboy.





For the record, I have had a ES 14-100 since the first month they were available and think it's a decent enough eyepiece for the cost. If they actually do something on their own and are successful at it the more power to them.

I know that Tele Vue had reasons for not going longer than 21mm with the 100 degree AFOV in 2 inch format so I'm also anxious to see how the 25-100 performs.

To be totally honest I simply don't see a need for the 120 degree AFOV. Didn't really understand going wider than 100 degrees with the 3.7 and 4.7mm Ethos either. It's my most unused area with anything I observe.

Don't know what to say about the big 30mm. Just have to wait and see how it works out.

Harvey


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: MrGrytt]
      #5518909 - 11/13/12 11:34 PM

Way too big and heavy & expensive !!! You can have it!

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Zamboni
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 01/03/05

Loc: Colorado Springs
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5518982 - 11/14/12 01:24 AM

I saw the thread title and thought this was a joke.

Then I pooped myself.


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FlorinAndrei
scholastic sledgehammer


Reged: 09/28/10

Loc: California
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: pbsastro]
      #5520102 - 11/14/12 08:27 PM

Quote:

The importance of these eyepieces (9-120, 25-100, 30-100) to ES is not profit. It is the same as F1 for car manufacturers. It is a statement of tecnological superiority.




That rings true for some reason. Although I'm sure the bragging rights are not the sole motivation for the 3" eyepiece project. Perhaps Scott just wanted to see all of M31 at once in his refractor.


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edl
professor emeritus


Reged: 06/24/04

Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5520212 - 11/14/12 09:47 PM

Quote:

Way too big and heavy & expensive !!! You can have it!



Hi Mark,
LOL! You say that now...

Best,
Ed L.


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Scanning4Comets
Markus
*****

Reged: 12/26/04

Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: edl]
      #5520406 - 11/15/12 12:26 AM

Quote:

Hi Mark,
LOL! You say that now...

Best,
Ed L.




Hi Ed! @ almost $1500.00 a pop and prob over 5 pounds, I say that now because I mean it !!! I can find a lot better ways to spend the imaginary $1500.00 I have. Even if I had a money tree in my backyard, for me it would mean spending that kind of cash for a finder eyepiece that would need a CRANE to put in the focuser, LOL.

No thx.


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Keith
sage
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: Costa Mesa, CA USA
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: Scanning4Comets]
      #5520517 - 11/15/12 03:18 AM

Most people in the market for this will have $6-10k+ APO optical tubes, on $4k-20k mounts, $1500 is a drop in the bucket for these guys. I know, I used to sell stuff to them all the time.

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pbsastro
professor emeritus
*****

Reged: 03/21/07

Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: Keith]
      #5521507 - 11/15/12 04:20 PM

Quote:

Most people in the market for this will have $6-10k+ APO optical tubes, on $4k-20k mounts, $1500 is a drop in the bucket for these guys. I know, I used to sell stuff to them all the time.




Absolutely right. Some C14HD owners may be tempted as well.


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Alvin Huey
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 10/18/05

Loc: NorCal
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: pbsastro]
      #5521542 - 11/15/12 04:35 PM

I think Shneor might end up with one of these. Just need a larger secondary and a new focuser.

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MitchAlsup
Pooh-Bah


Reged: 08/31/09

Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: Keith]
      #5522085 - 11/15/12 10:59 PM

Quote:

Most people in the market for this will have $6-10k+ APO optical tubes, on $4k-20k mounts, $1500 is a drop in the bucket for these guys. I know, I used to sell stuff to them all the time.




Guys with 20"+ DOBs with larger than necessary secondaries will like htis EP also.


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George N
Carpal Tunnel
*****

Reged: 05/19/06

Loc: Binghamton & Indian Lake NY
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: MitchAlsup]
      #5522928 - 11/16/12 01:26 PM

Maybe ES will *include* this eyepiece with their 6-inch APO. That prototype has been shown with a 3-inch r&p focuser since NEAF 2011 and Scott has talked about 3-inch field-flattener and reducer lenses for the scope. I would not be surprised to see it at least coming with a 3-inch diagonal.

So what if this EP does not work with Dobs. They will sell plenty to SCT and refractor owners. I see nothing wrong with aiming an EP at those scopes.


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Shneor
scholastic sledgehammer
*****

Reged: 03/01/05

Loc: Northern California
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: Alvin Huey]
      #5523010 - 11/16/12 02:42 PM

Quote:

I think Shneor might end up with one of these. Just need a larger secondary and a new focuser.




Thanks for the confidence, Alvin! But my upper ring won't take the weight of a larger secondary, and I'd have to shorten the struts, not to mention a new, heavier focuser. Too much for me, I'm afraid. But there's a lot to like about the 9mm "120°" ES. Wish there was a way to optically demonstrate how they eliminated coma. By the way I do like the 8mm Delos.

Clears,
Shneor


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Keith
sage
*****

Reged: 05/14/05

Loc: Costa Mesa, CA USA
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: pbsastro]
      #5523336 - 11/16/12 07:17 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Most people in the market for this will have $6-10k+ APO optical tubes, on $4k-20k mounts, $1500 is a drop in the bucket for these guys. I know, I used to sell stuff to them all the time.




Absolutely right. Some C14HD owners may be tempted as well.




probably will work on standard C11/C14s too. When Scott first mentioned this a couple years ago, the possibility of a diagonal to thread directly to the 3.25" threads on the rear cell was mentioned. OLD C14s had a 3" diagonal that had a thread on 2" reducer, and there was an eyepiece that threaded directly to the diagonal. I've never seen one, but I assume it was a longer FL erfle or something similar.

The problem with big 20"+ dobs is exit pupil, fine on F5, but many of these are f4, some down to F3, would be better off waiting for a 25-100, and if willing to go to a 3" focuser, only going wider, like a 3" 20-120, would make any sense. That is why the 21mm Ethos makes more sense than the 31 nagler to many fast dob owners. The 25-100 is going to be a hit if it is as good as the 14 and 20's. Good thing I have a 31 nagler to sell if it does. 4.6deg at 21.6x in the TV101, .89deg at 112x in C11 and 1.25deg at 80x in 8" ACF does sound appealing with 4.6mm and 2.5mm exit pupils respectively. Still slightly less field than 31 nagler (4.7deg in 101, .91 in C11 and 1.27 in 8"). Before anyone slams me on this math, I used simple AFOV vs Mag calculations, not taking into account actual effective field stop or magnification distortions, because we don't have that info for the 25-100 yet, and I didn't want to look up the equations and field stops. In my world the simple formula works well enough.

When it comes to pushing the edge of the barrel, it sounds like the 30-100 is not even close to the 3", and the 25-100 has room to spare as well (as does the 31nag). I wish someone would push the whole 2" field in a well corrected 82deg design, but nobody seems up to the challenge. In fact, when ES came out with the 20mm just before televue announced the E21, it was believed by the optical designers, that 20mm was as wide as could be done in a 2" barrel with acceptable performance. This makes me want to try before I buy a 25-100. Of course a few years have gone by, who knows what they could have figured out by now, and I hope TVs answer is to push the envelope with a 27mm, or whatever the max 46.5mm effective field stop allows in a 100deg design. It is times like this that I regret selling my 40XW, which really used the whole 2" field. I am pretty sure my 50 axiom does too, so it is not the end of the world. With the C11 I like the option to get as much field as possible, selling the 40XW was a "bad move Ripley, bad move!" (the field advantage of 31n vs 25-100 makes me hesitant to have to pick one or the other, but SOMETHING would have to be sacrificed financially for me to take on another $600 eyepiece, let alone a $1500 setup to go to 3" that would only work on one of my scopes... I better check my lottery ticket from yesterday's 300k drawing!


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panhard
It's All Good
*****

Reged: 01/20/08

Loc: Markham Ontario Canada
Re: A 30mm 100 degree 3 inch barrel in the works! new [Re: pbsastro]
      #5526932 - 11/18/12 09:56 PM

That looks like the bomb known as fat boy.

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